Re: Filesystems in 7.0 reliability

[Oliver Fromme]

Norberto Meijome wrote:
  Any issues with ZFS on a single HD ?

I think it's currently not recommended to use swapfiles
on ZFS.  Other than that, I'm not aware of any issues.

  any point doing that? 

Sure!  Getting rid of static partition sizes, checksums
for everything (preventing silent corruption), the
ability to store multiple copies of important files,
compression, and lots of other useful things.

Best regards
   Oliver

-- 
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Handelsregister: Registergericht Muenchen, HRA 74606,  Geschäftsfuehrung:
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start asking why software is ignoring 30 years of accumulated wisdom.'
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Re: Filesystems in 7.0 reliability

[Peter Jeremy]

On Wed, Nov 07, 2007 at 08:24:06PM +, Christian Walther wrote:
Did you check your harddrive? There are tools available in ports (sorry,
I forgotten how they are called) that can access the drives internal
fault statistics.

ports/sysutils/smartmontools
Worthwhile installing.  It can also invoke the drive's internal self-tests.

-- 
Peter Jeremy
Please excuse any delays as the result of my ISP's inability to implement
an RFC2821-compliant MTA.


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Re: Filesystems in 7.0 reliability

[Norberto Meijome]

On Fri, 9 Nov 2007 17:11:03 +1100
Peter Jeremy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 On Wed, Nov 07, 2007 at 08:24:06PM +, Christian Walther wrote:
 Did you check your harddrive? There are tools available in ports (sorry,
 I forgotten how they are called) that can access the drives internal
 fault statistics.  
 
 ports/sysutils/smartmontools
 Worthwhile installing.  It can also invoke the drive's internal self-tests.

Thanks, i've been running smartd since the first day. The disk is ok.

_
{Beto|Norberto|Numard} Meijome

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the sake of a useful cause.
   Dostoevsky

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Warned.
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Filesystems in 7.0 reliability

[Norberto Meijome]

Hi everyone,
I've been using 7 for a couple of weeks now on my work laptop (kickstarted by 
cooling issues while in 6.2, which seem to have largely gone in 7).

I have a 100GB SATA drive in a Thinkpad Z60m with

CPU: Intel(R) Pentium(R) M processor 2.00GHz (1995.02-MHz 686-class CPU)
  Origin = GenuineIntel  Id = 0x6d8  Stepping = 8
  
Features=0xafe9fbffFPU,VME,DE,PSE,TSC,MSR,PAE,MCE,CX8,APIC,SEP,MTRR,PGE,MCA,CMOV,PAT,CLFLUSH,DTS,ACPI,MMX,FXSR,SSE,SSE2,SS,TM,PBE
  Features2=0x180EST,TM2
real memory  = 1609433088 (1534 MB)
avail memory = 1567780864 (1495 MB)

I installed 7 on a normal UFS disk, but then migrated to having /usr in a UFS 
journaled partition , with a 1.5 GB journal on ad0s1h .  I didn't have any 
issue that I could directly relate to it. I had more hangs than now (i reverted 
back to plain UFS due to too many lock ups). The lock ups didnt leave any 
message or error anywhere - it seemed as if the disk subsystem stopped 
accepting commands (or was waiting on something ...) - anything in memory would 
work just fine, but as soon as disk access was needed, it 'd stall.

Something else i also noticed is that, after every crash, I couldn't just 
reboot and use my computer just fine, as I would have expected - maybe I'm 
wrong here.
I had to go into single user mode, and run a fsck /dev/ad0s1f.journal . this 
takes about 4 minutes. Hardly any errors were ever found  (as opposed to my 
non-journal partitions, which had files de-referenced ,etc.) So I suppose, in 
that regards, gjournal worked great but is the fsck needed??

I am also very interested in what zfs has to offer. How reliable is it? I am 
looking into using it both on my laptop, and as a filesystem for some large 
storage , possibly.

thanks for any ideas, comments, pointers :)

B
_
{Beto|Norberto|Numard} Meijome

Time exists so everything doesn't happen at once
   Albert Einstein

I speak for myself, not my employer. Contents may be hot. Slippery when wet. 
Reading disclaimers makes you go blind. Writing them is worse. You have been 
Warned.
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Re: Filesystems in 7.0 reliability

[Christian Walther]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1


Hello Noberto,

Norberto Meijome wrote:
 Hi everyone,
 I've been using 7 for a couple of weeks now on my work laptop (kickstarted by 
 cooling issues while in 6.2, which seem to have largely gone in 7).
 
 I have a 100GB SATA drive in a Thinkpad Z60m with
 
 CPU: Intel(R) Pentium(R) M processor 2.00GHz (1995.02-MHz 686-class CPU)
   Origin = GenuineIntel  Id = 0x6d8  Stepping = 8
   
 Features=0xafe9fbffFPU,VME,DE,PSE,TSC,MSR,PAE,MCE,CX8,APIC,SEP,MTRR,PGE,MCA,CMOV,PAT,CLFLUSH,DTS,ACPI,MMX,FXSR,SSE,SSE2,SS,TM,PBE
   Features2=0x180EST,TM2
 real memory  = 1609433088 (1534 MB)
 avail memory = 1567780864 (1495 MB)
 
 I installed 7 on a normal UFS disk, but then migrated to having /usr in a UFS 
 journaled partition , with a 1.5 GB journal on ad0s1h .  I didn't have any 
 issue that I could directly relate to it. I had more hangs than now (i 
 reverted back to plain UFS due to too many lock ups). The lock ups didnt 
 leave any message or error anywhere - it seemed as if the disk subsystem 
 stopped accepting commands (or was waiting on something ...) - anything in 
 memory would work just fine, but as soon as disk access was needed, it 'd 
 stall.
 

Did you check your harddrive? There are tools available in ports (sorry,
I forgotten how they are called) that can access the drives internal
fault statistics.
Maybe your drive has an error and locks up all of a sudden. Since a
journal leads to more disk activity it would be normal for a hardware
related error to happen more early.

I might be pretty wrong here, but the T60 has an internal movement
sensor that needs some software to turn of the hard drive. Maybe your
laptop has a sensor too, but the logic behind it is implemented in
hardware?

 Something else i also noticed is that, after every crash, I couldn't just 
 reboot and use my computer just fine, as I would have expected - maybe I'm 
 wrong here.
 I had to go into single user mode, and run a fsck /dev/ad0s1f.journal . this 
 takes about 4 minutes. Hardly any errors were ever found  (as opposed to my 
 non-journal partitions, which had files de-referenced ,etc.) So I suppose, in 
 that regards, gjournal worked great but is the fsck needed??
 
 I am also very interested in what zfs has to offer. How reliable is it? I am 
 looking into using it both on my laptop, and as a filesystem for some large 
 storage , possibly.

You might want to search the list archives (especially freebsd-current)
to get some details on ZFS and possible problems regarding it. There
seems to be an issue with ZFS and Samba and/or NFS.
A nice summary is in the archives:

http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-current/2007-August/076411.html

I don't know what the current status is, thou. And I never suffered from
this error. In fact I'm using a raidz with 4x400GB HDDs. One use is as a
storage for satellite video streams, so there are pretty big files
written to it using NFS.
One thing I really like about ZFS is that it gets rid of the old
partition/slice paradigm. You'll never be angry with yourself again
because you selected the wrong size for your partition/slices.

 
 thanks for any ideas, comments, pointers :)
 
 B

HTH
Christian


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Re: Filesystems in 7.0 reliability

[Norberto Meijome]

On Wed, 07 Nov 2007 20:24:06 +
Christian Walther [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
 Hash: SHA1
 
 
 Hello Noberto,
 
 Norberto Meijome wrote:
  Hi everyone,
  I've been using 7 for a couple of weeks now on my work laptop (kickstarted 
  by cooling issues while in 6.2, which seem to have largely gone in 7).
  
  I have a 100GB SATA drive in a Thinkpad Z60m with
  
  CPU: Intel(R) Pentium(R) M processor 2.00GHz (1995.02-MHz 686-class CPU)
Origin = GenuineIntel  Id = 0x6d8  Stepping = 8

  Features=0xafe9fbffFPU,VME,DE,PSE,TSC,MSR,PAE,MCE,CX8,APIC,SEP,MTRR,PGE,MCA,CMOV,PAT,CLFLUSH,DTS,ACPI,MMX,FXSR,SSE,SSE2,SS,TM,PBE
Features2=0x180EST,TM2
  real memory  = 1609433088 (1534 MB)
  avail memory = 1567780864 (1495 MB)
  
  I installed 7 on a normal UFS disk, but then migrated to having /usr in a 
  UFS journaled partition , with a 1.5 GB journal on ad0s1h .  I didn't have 
  any issue that I could directly relate to it. I had more hangs than now (i 
  reverted back to plain UFS due to too many lock ups). The lock ups didnt 
  leave any message or error anywhere - it seemed as if the disk subsystem 
  stopped accepting commands (or was waiting on something ...) - anything in 
  memory would work just fine, but as soon as disk access was needed, it 'd 
  stall.
  
 
 Did you check your harddrive? There are tools available in ports (sorry,
 I forgotten how they are called) that can access the drives internal
 fault statistics.
 Maybe your drive has an error and locks up all of a sudden. Since a
 journal leads to more disk activity it would be normal for a hardware
 related error to happen more early.

good point... but i dont think the journal would use it THAT much more that 
would trigger these kinds of errors about 6 times a day...and now i've been 
running without gjournal for 2 days without 1 crash. 

Other factors : the journal is on a part of the disk i haven't used much till 
now ( i split ad0s1g into 2, use g for crash dumps and h for journal). But I 
also run smartd and it reports no issues at all.

But, as I said before, I am comparing different kinds of fruits - since i 
stopped using gjournal I also have updated, rebuilt and strimlined my kernel + 
world. I will go back to gjournal later, but at the moment i'm snowed under.

Which is why I wanted to know what experiences, overall, had others had with 
gjournal.

 
 I might be pretty wrong here, but the T60 has an internal movement
 sensor that needs some software to turn of the hard drive. Maybe your
 laptop has a sensor too, but the logic behind it is implemented in
 hardware?

yes, mine does too. But i'm mostly static when using the laptop.

 
  Something else i also noticed is that, after every crash, I couldn't just 
  reboot and use my computer just fine, as I would have expected - maybe I'm 
  wrong here.
  I had to go into single user mode, and run a fsck /dev/ad0s1f.journal . 
  this takes about 4 minutes. Hardly any errors were ever found  (as opposed 
  to my non-journal partitions, which had files de-referenced ,etc.) So I 
  suppose, in that regards, gjournal worked great but is the fsck needed??
  
  I am also very interested in what zfs has to offer. How reliable is it? I 
  am looking into using it both on my laptop, and as a filesystem for some 
  large storage , possibly.
 
 You might want to search the list archives (especially freebsd-current)
 to get some details on ZFS and possible problems regarding it. There
 seems to be an issue with ZFS and Samba and/or NFS.
 A nice summary is in the archives:
 
 http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-current/2007-August/076411.html
 
 I don't know what the current status is, thou. And I never suffered from
 this error. In fact I'm using a raidz with 4x400GB HDDs. One use is as a
 storage for satellite video streams, so there are pretty big files
 written to it using NFS.
 One thing I really like about ZFS is that it gets rid of the old
 partition/slice paradigm. You'll never be angry with yourself again
 because you selected the wrong size for your partition/slices.
 

Any issues with ZFS on a single HD ? any point doing that? 

thanks for the info :)
B

_
{Beto|Norberto|Numard} Meijome

Lots of people who complained about us receiving the MBE received theirs for 
heroism in the war -- for killing people.
 We received ours for entertaining other people. I'd say we deserve ours more.
  John Lennon

I speak for myself, not my employer. Contents may be hot. Slippery when wet. 
Reading disclaimers makes you go blind. Writing them is worse. You have been 
Warned.
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