Re: USB issues (not just Re: PR backlog)
From: Mikhail Teterin [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2007 12:39:21 -0500 Sender: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ÞÅÔ×ÅÒ 27 ÇÒÕÄÅÎØ 2007 12:33 ÐÏ, M. Warner Losh ÷É ÎÁÐÉÓÁÌÉ: I did the bulk of the work for the 7.0 stuff, at least getting things into the tree. Since I did the work, my last job got totally insane and then I switched jobs. As the old Russian saying went: if vodka interferes with your job, you have to stop working. Which explains why there are not more old Russians. :-) We can all agree that this is long overdue. But we need to make sure of a few critical details so we don't create another mess for ourselves down the line. Seriosly, thank you and do get back to it whenever you can. As to the original issue, I reported the same thing with my Olympus camera. It used to work fine, so this is a regression. It crashes current but simply fails when I use the HPS USB stack. (After a few seconds, the camera simply turns itself off.) As the original posted offered, I can provide a dump and posted the backtrace. I'd really love to be able to download pictures again, but I am not optimistic. -- R. Kevin Oberman, Network Engineer Energy Sciences Network (ESnet) Ernest O. Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory (Berkeley Lab) E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Phone: +1 510 486-8634 Key fingerprint:059B 2DDF 031C 9BA3 14A4 EADA 927D EBB3 987B 3751 pgpadLnjC7dYb.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: PR backlog [was: Re: usb/umass, devfs: this sucks]
It's sent out weekly. So only people which are on bugbusters@ receive it. If someone is interested in this but is not interested in the other bugbusters@ mails, they will not see it. Actually apart from this thread that weekly email is the only traffic on bugbusters@ ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: PR backlog [was: Re: usb/umass, devfs: this sucks]
Quoting Mark Linimon [EMAIL PROTECTED] (from Sat, 29 Dec 2007 22:26:02 -0600): On Sun, Dec 30, 2007 at 01:01:19AM +0100, Alexander Leidinger wrote: Quoting Mark Linimon [EMAIL PROTECTED] (from Wed, 26 Dec 2007 12:04:15 -0600): - The creation of a weekly posting bugs the bugmeister team thinks are ready for commit. This doesn't seem to have attracted the desired attention. Perhaps this is a problem of push not being the right solution here; perhaps it just hasn't been publicized enough. Where is/was this mail send to? To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: PRs recommended for committer evaluation by the bugbusting team It's sent out weekly. So only people which are on bugbusters@ receive it. If someone is interested in this but is not interested in the other bugbusters@ mails, they will not see it. What about an experiment: send those mails (additionally) to hackers@ or [EMAIL PROTECTED] Bye, Alexander. -- Beware of self-styled experts: an ex is a has-been, and a spurt is a drip under pressure. http://www.Leidinger.netAlexander @ Leidinger.net: PGP ID = B0063FE7 http://www.FreeBSD.org netchild @ FreeBSD.org : PGP ID = 72077137 ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: PR backlog [was: Re: usb/umass, devfs: this sucks]
Quoting Mark Linimon [EMAIL PROTECTED] (from Wed, 26 Dec 2007 12:04:15 -0600): - The creation of a weekly posting bugs the bugmeister team thinks are ready for commit. This doesn't seem to have attracted the desired attention. Perhaps this is a problem of push not being the right solution here; perhaps it just hasn't been publicized enough. Where is/was this mail send to? Bye, Alexander. -- When I met th'POPE back in '58, I scrubbed him with a MILD SOAP or DETERGENT for 15 minutes. He seemed to enjoy it ... http://www.Leidinger.netAlexander @ Leidinger.net: PGP ID = B0063FE7 http://www.FreeBSD.org netchild @ FreeBSD.org : PGP ID = 72077137 ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: PR backlog [was: Re: usb/umass, devfs: this sucks]
On Sun, Dec 30, 2007 at 01:01:19AM +0100, Alexander Leidinger wrote: Quoting Mark Linimon [EMAIL PROTECTED] (from Wed, 26 Dec 2007 12:04:15 -0600): - The creation of a weekly posting bugs the bugmeister team thinks are ready for commit. This doesn't seem to have attracted the desired attention. Perhaps this is a problem of push not being the right solution here; perhaps it just hasn't been publicized enough. Where is/was this mail send to? To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: PRs recommended for committer evaluation by the bugbusting team It's sent out weekly. mcl ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: PR backlog
Hello Warner et all, On Wed, December 26, 2007 7:42 pm, M. Warner Losh wrote: Mark and Henrik make a number of good points here. Rather than reply to the details, I'm going to make a couple of quick observations. As a project we're not leveraging the community sufficiently when it comes to contributions. The current system of patch review and submission is very hap-hazard. If you happen to get the attention of the right person at the right time, then it goes in. If not, patches can languish a long time in the PR system. Indeed, I am one of the persons trying to find these relatively easy things which I can do along side my other projects and things, but I dont see them all (eventhough I try to keep track of them as much as possible); but what will happen is that I learn more and more about the system and at some point in time I will stop working on these easy PR's and seeking more difficult ones to fix, at that point someone else has to step up to fill in the gap that gets created; this might be a problematic part :-) Though for everyone having simple fixes, please send them to me so that I can evaluate them and (together with Warner in this case (As my mentor)) I will try to get them in as correctly and quickly as possible :-) (keeping up with the high standards of FreeBSD ofcourse). The PR system is also the wrong tool for the job. While Mark touches on the cultural issues in play, they are exacerbated by the misapplication of a problem system to be a patch submission and tracking system. Maybe we need to adopt a practice from the Linux community. At least for arm kernel patches, there is a two step process: submit it to a mailing list for review and refinement, with the second step being submitting it into a queue. I'm not sure the details we need to be successful in the FreeBSD project. Many of the USB patches in the PR system I left alone because I didn't have the time and/or knowledge to evaluate them for inclusion, or I saw something obviously wrong in the patch. When I was trying to just get through the obviously trivial patches. Warner Some things that I think need to be done by the bugbuster/bugmeister team and additional people is a constant effort to keep track of the incoming tickets; Mark does a great job at that, and I try to helpout as much as possible there, but we are all busy every now and then and then a backlog on processing the incoming tickets gets created and we loose the battle :-) This is where you (the reader) can get in and try to help us with that, so that we can properly assign the tickets, and try to keep track of them so that they can get resolved as soon as possible. Though, some complains are that we are not fast enough etc, I think we need to make sure that everyone keeps understanding that we are a Voluntary project, and that we have resources at unknown times and dates, a committer can be active the one day, and remain inactive the rest of the week; that's a side effect on the project being based on volunteers; we did a good job so far with that, but every now and then something slips in between. What we should do at that point is not ranting around as I see happen sometimes, but instead try to get the bugbusters / bugmeister team involved so that we can see what other options are available, sometimes we can succeed in and sometimes we cannot; but dont keep the problem to yourself and the assigned person because that might not work :-) Just my E 0,02 :-) -- /\ Best regards, | [EMAIL PROTECTED] \ / Remko Lodder | [EMAIL PROTECTED] Xhttp://www.evilcoder.org/ | / \ ASCII Ribbon Campaign | Against HTML Mail and News ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: PR backlog
On середа 26 грудень 2007, M. Warner Losh wrote: = As a project we're not leveraging the community sufficiently when it = comes to contributions. The current system of patch review and = submission is very hap-hazard. If you happen to get the attention of = the right person at the right time, then it goes in. If not, patches = can languish a long time in the PR system. This is /generally/ true, and has been for years. However, the USB-part of FreeBSD is in a /particularly/ bad shape, so something USB-specific may be in order. There is talk about a whole new USB reimplementation, and somebody is working in the Perforce nirvana-land on it. Maybe, that work needs a closer look by other experts so as to bring it to the FreeBSD masses faster... -mi ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: PR backlog
In message: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Mikhail Teterin [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: : On середа 26 грудень 2007, M. Warner Losh wrote: : = As a project we're not leveraging the community sufficiently when it : = comes to contributions. �The current system of patch review and : = submission is very hap-hazard. �If you happen to get the attention of : = the right person at the right time, then it goes in. �If not, patches : = can languish a long time in the PR system. : : This is /generally/ true, and has been for years. However, the USB-part of : FreeBSD is in a /particularly/ bad shape, so something USB-specific may be in : order. Usually that's called a maintainer, but we haven't had a real one in a long time. Or even a fake one. That's what it would take to solve the problem. : There is talk about a whole new USB reimplementation, and somebody is : working in the Perforce nirvana-land on it. Maybe, that work needs a closer : look by other experts so as to bring it to the FreeBSD masses faster... Now you are being insulting here. There are people looking at Hans' new stack, and have identified a few issues with it. Hans' is working on the issues identified, and even provides snapshots from time to time for people to try. Warner ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
USB issues (not just Re: PR backlog)
четвер 27 грудень 2007 10:52 до, M. Warner Losh Ви написали: Usually that's called a maintainer, but we haven't had a real one in a long time. Or even a fake one. Well, you responded to me earlier suggesting, I take it upon myself to merge USB-advancements from 7.x to 6.x. That implied, somebody did something for 7.x, did not it? Can that body (whoever they are) not put on the vacant USB-maintainer hat and push the fixes/improvements into 6.x (preferably -- before the 6.3 is released unto the world)? If not that same person, then, maybe, the people, whom you mention below as looking at Hans' new stack, can do the merging? : There is talk about a whole new USB reimplementation, and somebody is : working in the Perforce nirvana-land on it. Maybe, that work needs a : closer look by other experts so as to bring it to the FreeBSD masses : faster... Now you are being insulting here. There are people looking at Hans' new stack, and have identified a few issues with it. Hans' is working on the issues identified, and even provides snapshots from time to time for people to try. I sure hope, you were joking about the insulting part. I don't see anything in my words, that's in any way disparaging or insulting. What troubles me, however, is that this new work is being done in that ivory tower called perforce. Nothing against that particular revision-control system, but the FreeBSD work in perforce in the past tended to take /years/ to be merged into the project's official repository -- CVS. Probably, because the actual development is far more thrilling, than the mundane merging from on repository to another... But if somebody is, indeed, working on a new USB stack, that's terrific news. It also implies, we might get a USB-maintainer some time soon. I just want it soon/er/, because it has been far too long already... I am with FreeBSD since early ninetees (and don't need refreshers on how we are a volunteer project). But I can't remember another case of a subsystem being so broken for so long -- through so many releases. -mi ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: USB issues (not just Re: PR backlog)
In message: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Mikhail Teterin [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: : четвер 27 грудень 2007 10:52 до, M. Warner Losh Ви написали: : Usually that's called a maintainer, but we haven't had a real one in a : long time. Or even a fake one. : : Well, you responded to me earlier suggesting, I take it upon myself to merge : USB-advancements from 7.x to 6.x. That implied, somebody did something for : 7.x, did not it? Can that body (whoever they are) not put on the vacant : USB-maintainer hat and push the fixes/improvements into 6.x (preferably -- : before the 6.3 is released unto the world)? If not that same person, then, : maybe, the people, whom you mention below as looking at Hans' new stack, : can do the merging? I did the bulk of the work for the 7.0 stuff, at least getting things into the tree. Since I did the work, my last job got totally insane and then I switched jobs. I don't have the time needed to do this. : But if somebody is, indeed, working on a new USB stack, that's : terrific news. It also implies, we might get a USB-maintainer some : time soon. I just want it soon/er/, because it has been far too long : already... We can all agree that this is long overdue. But we need to make sure of a few critical details so we don't create another mess for ourselves down the line. Warner ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: USB issues (not just Re: PR backlog)
четвер 27 грудень 2007 12:33 по, M. Warner Losh Ви написали: I did the bulk of the work for the 7.0 stuff, at least getting things into the tree. Since I did the work, my last job got totally insane and then I switched jobs. As the old Russian saying went: if vodka interferes with your job, you have to stop working. We can all agree that this is long overdue. But we need to make sure of a few critical details so we don't create another mess for ourselves down the line. Seriosly, thank you and do get back to it whenever you can. -mi ## The information contained in this communication is confidential and may contain information that is privileged or exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you are not a named addressee, please notify the sender immediately and delete this email from your system. If you have received this communication, and are not a named recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. ## ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: PR backlog
On Thu, 27 Dec 2007 09:43:08 +0100 (CET) Remko Lodder [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello Warner et all, On Wed, December 26, 2007 7:42 pm, M. Warner Losh wrote: Mark and Henrik make a number of good points here. Rather than reply to the details, I'm going to make a couple of quick observations. As a project we're not leveraging the community sufficiently when it comes to contributions. The current system of patch review and submission is very hap-hazard. If you happen to get the attention of the right person at the right time, then it goes in. If not, patches can languish a long time in the PR system. Indeed, I am one of the persons trying to find these relatively easy things which I can do along side my other projects and things, but I dont see them all (eventhough I try to keep track of them as much as possible); but what will happen is that I learn more and more about the system and at some point in time I will stop working on these easy PR's and seeking more difficult ones to fix, at that point someone else has to step up to fill in the gap that gets created; this might be a problematic part :-) Though for everyone having simple fixes, please send them to me so that I can evaluate them and (together with Warner in this case (As my mentor)) I will try to get them in as correctly and quickly as possible :-) (keeping up with the high standards of FreeBSD ofcourse). I also opened the PR database a couple weeks ago looking for a solution to bugs I encountered. It's been quite long, some years, since I opened the PR page last time. It was surprising and also disappointing on the number of PRs left open for long time. How do I help that cleaning job? I am also interested fixing and concerned about this fact. Thanks, Hiro ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: PR backlog
Mark and Henrik make a number of good points here. Rather than reply to the details, I'm going to make a couple of quick observations. As a project we're not leveraging the community sufficiently when it comes to contributions. The current system of patch review and submission is very hap-hazard. If you happen to get the attention of the right person at the right time, then it goes in. If not, patches can languish a long time in the PR system. The PR system is also the wrong tool for the job. While Mark touches on the cultural issues in play, they are exacerbated by the misapplication of a problem system to be a patch submission and tracking system. Maybe we need to adopt a practice from the Linux community. At least for arm kernel patches, there is a two step process: submit it to a mailing list for review and refinement, with the second step being submitting it into a queue. I'm not sure the details we need to be successful in the FreeBSD project. Many of the USB patches in the PR system I left alone because I didn't have the time and/or knowledge to evaluate them for inclusion, or I saw something obviously wrong in the patch. When I was trying to just get through the obviously trivial patches. Warner ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: PR backlog
I agree with this and there is also the 2nd issue of commiters not responding to those working on updating ports. Point and Fax I have emaile Sobomax about fixing and updating the asterisk ports. and have sent patches but never got a reply in 9 months. If your going to be a maintainer you need to respond to those working on projects already in ports. On December 26, 2007 10:42:24 am M. Warner Losh wrote: Mark and Henrik make a number of good points here. Rather than reply to the details, I'm going to make a couple of quick observations. As a project we're not leveraging the community sufficiently when it comes to contributions. The current system of patch review and submission is very hap-hazard. If you happen to get the attention of the right person at the right time, then it goes in. If not, patches can languish a long time in the PR system. The PR system is also the wrong tool for the job. While Mark touches on the cultural issues in play, they are exacerbated by the misapplication of a problem system to be a patch submission and tracking system. Maybe we need to adopt a practice from the Linux community. At least for arm kernel patches, there is a two step process: submit it to a mailing list for review and refinement, with the second step being submitting it into a queue. I'm not sure the details we need to be successful in the FreeBSD project. Many of the USB patches in the PR system I left alone because I didn't have the time and/or knowledge to evaluate them for inclusion, or I saw something obviously wrong in the patch. When I was trying to just get through the obviously trivial patches. Warner ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-usb To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Welcome to the World. An the World gets smaller. ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: PR backlog
On Wed, Dec 26, 2007 at 12:43:06PM -0800, Richard Neese wrote: Point and Fax I have emaile Sobomax about fixing and updating the asterisk ports. and have sent patches but never got a reply in 9 months. For situations like this you need to email [EMAIL PROTECTED] We already have defined parameters for resetting inactive maintainers. mcl ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
