Re: net-booting the install disks (Re: 8.x grudges)
On 12/07/2010 19:22, Marian Hettwer wrote: Hi Adam, Am 12.07.10 19:11, schrieb Adam Vande More: Automated installations have existed on FreeBSD for a long time. You can do this either via netboot or CD based media. Also rolling your own FreeBSD media with custom changes is trivial compared the linux distro's I'm familar with. I haven't used kickstart but I will say the FreeBSD method is easier to work with than the Debian FIA method. Plus there are many post-install configuration utilites like puppet to further automate stuff. I actually like the principle of FAI configspace that much, that a colleague of mine and myself ported the underlying FAI to OpenBSD. I tend to say, that configuring a server with FAI is way easier than with puppet. I'd love to pxeboot a minimal freebsd with a ramdisk and a base set of utilities to use FAI there too, however, my last attempts of doing that with FreeBSD failed. But your opinion may vary, of course :) This page is pretty well out of date, but the concepts remain the same. You can look at the work MFSBSD has done if you interested and there are more up to date howto floating around the www. humm... what is MFSBSD? http://mfsbsd.vx.sk/ (maybe also see http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en/articles/remote-install/preparation.html) Basicly a set of scripts to build a small customised bsd that can run from a memory backed disk (tftp bootable i believe.) I still haven't had an excuse to try it properly but it looks pretty cool. Vince Cheers, Marian ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-stable-unsubscr...@freebsd.org ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-stable-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: net-booting the install disks (Re: 8.x grudges)
08.07.2010 09:53, Jeremy Chadwick написав(ла): Then don't modify loader.conf. Instead, once the Welcome to FreeBSD! portion of loader appears, press 6 to shell to the loader prompt and type: set vfs.root.mountfrom=ufs:/dev/md0 boot Yes, that works... It just should not be necessary. Red Hat's kickstart does not require one to extract CD-images to fiddle with a couple of lines, and FreeBSD comes tantalizingly close to offer the same functionality. Just not quite :-( -mi ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-stable-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: net-booting the install disks (Re: 8.x grudges)
08.07.2010 12:40, Jeremy Chadwick написав(ла): set vfs.root.mountfrom=ufs:/dev/md0 boot Yes, that works... It just should not be necessary. Okay, so let me get this straight. First the complaint was that you had to modify loader.conf, which involved extracting the CD image, editing the file, yadda yadda. Now that you've been shown you don't have to edit loader.conf, the complaint is it shouldn't be necessary.:-) No, I initially complained, that I had to fiddle with loader's options at boot-time (item 8 -- instead of setting mountfrom, I set init to sysinstall -- don't recall the exact syntax). You then claimed, that you /can't reproduce/ my problem -- and referred me to your instructions http://jdc.parodius.com/freebsd/pxeboot_serial_install_8.html (nice ones, BTW, even for those, who don't need serial-port install), where you explain, how to perform the install via netboot. I pointed out, that your recipe is not a valid counter-example, because -- instead of fiddling with loader's options at boot-time, you fiddle with the loader.conf (and have to extract the entire CD/DVD-image to do that one-line change). One way or the other, some -- very minor -- manual changes are required... It is, of course, an accepted fact, that installing (or upgrading) an OS would require fiddling, but this particular little aspect can be eliminated, I think... The bottom line: the PXE booting framework in FreeBSD could be improved. Even Randi would agree with this point, I think. I perfectly understand -- and am not complaining -- about substantial work not done in any particular area. It is the little things, that could've been done with negligible /marginal/ cost, that are my target. RedHat's kickstart http://www.redhat.com/docs/manuals/linux/RHL-7.3-Manual/custom-guide/ch-kickstart2.html can do an entire install based on pre-configured rules. Implementing something like that for FreeBSD would, probably, take quite a bit of effort. But being able to just boot straight into install from a CD (or CD-image) across the LAN doesn't seem very complicated, considering, how close we already are... Yes, it is important to me. No, I can not do it myself. I do, what I can in my area of expertise. If this area is not being improved for lack of time/resources, then fine... But I don't think, that's the case, for it seems to me, that the developers, who can do this little improvement, simply don't see a need for it. Yours, -mi ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-stable-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: net-booting the install disks (Re: 8.x grudges)
On Thu, Jul 8, 2010 at 1:28 PM, Mikhail T. mi+t...@aldan.algebra.commi%2bt...@aldan.algebra.com wrote: RedHat's kickstart http://www.redhat.com/docs/manuals/linux/RHL-7.3-Manual/custom-guide/ch-kickstart2.html can do an entire install based on pre-configured rules. Implementing something like that for FreeBSD would, probably, take quite a bit of effort. But being able to just boot straight into install from a CD (or CD-image) across the LAN doesn't seem very complicated, considering, how close we already are... Automated installations have existed on FreeBSD for a long time. You can do this either via netboot or CD based media. Also rolling your own FreeBSD media with custom changes is trivial compared the linux distro's I'm familar with. I haven't used kickstart but I will say the FreeBSD method is easier to work with than the Debian FIA method. Plus there are many post-install configuration utilites like puppet to further automate stuff. This page is pretty well out of date, but the concepts remain the same. You can look at the work MFSBSD has done if you interested and there are more up to date howto floating around the www. http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en/articles/pxe/article.html You can find a sample install.cfg at /usr/src/usr.sbin/sysinstall/install.cfg Roll it into your media and make sure sysinstall is configed to use it. It's really that simple. There may certain aspects of this type of thing which make it more complicated, like installing custom packages, FW setup, etc. but the framework is simpler than many other OS's IMO. -- Adam Vande More ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-stable-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: net-booting the install disks (Re: 8.x grudges)
12.07.2010 13:11, Adam Vande More wrote: Roll it into your media You lost me right here... Rolling one's own media (for every release and release-candidate) may be Ok for someone in charge of making, at least, several installations per week. For someone like myself, who just wanted to use a downloaded CD-image straight (without burning it first), there is got to be a way to use the FreeBSD-distributed images... I'm not asking for the full power offered by kickstart et al, I just want the booting image to be a little bit smarter than it already is and do The Right Thing^TM regardless of whether it is booting from the local CD-ROM or remotely. Yours, -mi ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-stable-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: net-booting the install disks (Re: 8.x grudges)
Hi Adam, Am 12.07.10 19:11, schrieb Adam Vande More: Automated installations have existed on FreeBSD for a long time. You can do this either via netboot or CD based media. Also rolling your own FreeBSD media with custom changes is trivial compared the linux distro's I'm familar with. I haven't used kickstart but I will say the FreeBSD method is easier to work with than the Debian FIA method. Plus there are many post-install configuration utilites like puppet to further automate stuff. I actually like the principle of FAI configspace that much, that a colleague of mine and myself ported the underlying FAI to OpenBSD. I tend to say, that configuring a server with FAI is way easier than with puppet. I'd love to pxeboot a minimal freebsd with a ramdisk and a base set of utilities to use FAI there too, however, my last attempts of doing that with FreeBSD failed. But your opinion may vary, of course :) This page is pretty well out of date, but the concepts remain the same. You can look at the work MFSBSD has done if you interested and there are more up to date howto floating around the www. humm... what is MFSBSD? Cheers, Marian ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-stable-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: net-booting the install disks (Re: 8.x grudges)
Am 12.07.10 19:37, schrieb Mikhail T.: 12.07.2010 13:11, Adam Vande More wrote: Roll it into your media You lost me right here... Rolling one's own media (for every release and release-candidate) may be Ok for someone in charge of making, at least, several installations per week. For someone like myself, who just wanted to use a downloaded CD-image straight (without burning it first), there is got to be a way to use the FreeBSD-distributed images... I'm not asking for the full power offered by kickstart et al, I just want the booting image to be a little bit smarter than it already is and do The Right Thing^TM regardless of whether it is booting from the local CD-ROM or remotely. hm, I second that. While I fully understand that the iso images purpose is _not_ doing a netinstall, I'd like to have a downloadable image which is easy pxebootable and just drops into a shell. Ideally it does a dhcp request, if successful starts a sshd and if not has video and serial output enabled. Did anybody actually stripped down a FreeBSD to do just that? I read my way through the pxeboot articles and the handbook section of netbooting and everything... however, it really sounds a bit overcomplicated to do a make release and stuff. No offense ment, obviously :) best, Marian ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-stable-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: net-booting the install disks (Re: 8.x grudges)
On Mon, 12 Jul 2010, Marian Hettwer wrote: While I fully understand that the iso images purpose is _not_ doing a netinstall, I'd like to have a downloadable image which is easy pxebootable and just drops into a shell. Ideally it does a dhcp request, if successful starts a sshd and if not has video and serial output enabled. Did anybody actually stripped down a FreeBSD to do just that? I read my way through the pxeboot articles and the handbook section of netbooting and everything... however, it really sounds a bit overcomplicated to do a make release and stuff. No offense ment, obviously :) Not that I've done it (yet), but NanoBSD looks like it would handle the stripping-down part and setting up the md devices pretty painlessly. The only part that remains would be to customize the booting process, which shouldn't be terrible. It's possible to take the livefs memstick image and remove some of the parts that are not needed. But you'll also have to modify the mfsroot image to add /etc, /bin, /sbin, /usr, and by the time that's all done, NanoBSD is likely the easier path. ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-stable-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: net-booting the install disks (Re: 8.x grudges)
On Thu, Jul 08, 2010 at 11:08:04AM -0400, Mikhail T. wrote:
08.07.2010 09:53, Jeremy Chadwick напиÑаÐ=²(ла):
Then don't modify loader.conf. Instead, once the Welcome to FreeBSD!=
portion of loader appears, press 6 to shell to the loader prompt
and type:
set vfs.root.mountfrom=ufs:/dev/md0
boot
Yes, that works... It just should not be necessary.
Okay, so let me get this straight. First the complaint was that you had
to modify loader.conf, which involved extracting the CD image, editing
the file, yadda yadda. Now that you've been shown you don't have to
edit loader.conf, the complaint is it shouldn't be necessary. :-)
There's actually quite a bit about FreeBSD that shouldn't be necessary
(from an administrator's point of view), but that's a
completely separate issue when compared to your when I do thing X in
the kernel config, it breaks. Which of those two approaches do you
want to focus on?
Red Hat's kickstart does not require one to extract CD-images to
fiddle with a couple of lines, and FreeBSD comes tantalizingly close
to offer the same functionality. Just not quite :-(
I've PXE booted Ubuntu and Debian. It was easy to accomplish (read:
easier than FreeBSD) because they offer pxelinux vs. FreeBSD's pxeboot.
pxelinux[1] offers the ability to read a configuration file via TFTP,
which configures pxelinux itself. The configuration capabilities are
very impressive[2]. FreeBSD folks interested in PXE should really take
a look at this thing. I believe the configuration file is read and
applied immediately, so things like serial port speed changes happen
before pxelinux outputs anything (e.g. no need to rebuild pxelinux just
to get a faster rate).
That said, given that FreeBSD's pxeboot requires a bunch of extra work
(rebuilding for faster serial speed, and a bunch of other stuff -- it's
in my doc), I'm a surprised you're not complaining about that. :-)
The bottom line: the PXE booting framework in FreeBSD could be improved.
It has been improved, though not the documentation :-(
you can configure most of the stuff via DHCP, take a look
at src/lib/libstand/bootp.c
example lines from dhcpd.conf:
option FBSD.ind0 hint.uart.0.flags=0x10
option FBSD.ind1 kern.ipc.semmni=256
option FBSD.ind2 kern.ipc.semmns=2048
and with this code in rc.initdiskless:
confpath=`kenv conf-path`
if [ -n $confpath ] ; then
if [ `expr $confpath : '\(.*\):'` ] ; then
echo Mounting $confpath on /conf
mount_nfs $confpath /conf
chkerr $? mount_nfs $confpath /conf
to_umount=${to_umount} $confpath
fi
fi
eval `kenv | sed -n 's/^rc\.//p'`
rm -f /etc/rc.conf /etc/rc.conf.local
for fc in $conf0 $conf1 $conf2 $conf3 $conf4 $conf5 $conf6 $conf7 $conf8
$conf9 rc.conf.$hostname
do
ho=`expr $fc : '\(.*\):'`
fl=`expr $fc : '.*/\(.*\)'`
if [ ${ho} != ]; then
mp=`expr $fc : '\(.*\)/.*'`
mount_nfs $mp /mnt /dev/null 21
if [ -f /mnt/$fl ]; then
echo # from $fc /mnt/$fl /etc/rc.conf
cat /mnt/$fl /etc/rc.conf
fi
umount /mnt /dev/null 21
elif [ -e /conf/$fc ] ; then
echo # from /conf/$fc /etc/rc.conf
cat /conf/$fc /etc/rc.conf
fi
done
and these lines in dhcpd.conf
option FBSD.conf-path=fr-01:/vol/system/share/conf
option FBSD.rc-conf3 rc.ws8
...
will generate a 'personalized' rc.conf
danny
PS: this is not the first time I have posted this.
[...]
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Re: net-booting the install disks (Re: 8.x grudges)
07.07.2010 16:00, Randi Harper написав(ла): So you're complaining that you have to modify the loader.conf? I fail to see the problem. This is by design, and isn't a lack of progress. Yes, I complain, that I have to modify a loader.conf embedded in a CD-image. If extracting hundreds of mega-bytes of files to make a one-line modification is by design, then the design is flawed. Especially, when the effect achieved by the one-line modification can be arrived to automatically -- without such modifications. Yours, -mi ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-stable-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: net-booting the install disks (Re: 8.x grudges)
On Wed, 7 Jul 2010, Mikhail T. wrote: 07.07.2010 16:00, Randi Harper ???(??): So you're complaining that you have to modify the loader.conf? I fail to see the problem. This is by design, and isn't a lack of progress. Yes, I complain, that I have to modify a loader.conf embedded in a CD-image. If extracting hundreds of mega-bytes of files to make a one-line modification is by design, then the design is flawed. Especially, when the effect achieved by the one-line modification can be arrived to automatically -- without such modifications. There's a hole in the bucket .. ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-stable-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: net-booting the install disks (Re: 8.x grudges)
On Wed, Jul 07, 2010 at 04:29:14PM -0400, Mikhail T. wrote: 07.07.2010 16:00, Randi Harper написав(ла): So you're complaining that you have to modify the loader.conf? I fail to see the problem. This is by design, and isn't a lack of progress. Yes, I complain, that I have to modify a loader.conf embedded in a CD-image. If extracting hundreds of mega-bytes of files to make a one-line modification is by design, then the design is flawed. Especially, when the effect achieved by the one-line modification can be arrived to automatically -- without such modifications. Then don't modify loader.conf. Instead, once the Welcome to FreeBSD! portion of loader appears, press 6 to shell to the loader prompt and type: set vfs.root.mountfrom=ufs:/dev/md0 boot If you want me to test/verify that this works, I can do so when I get home in about an hour (I do have a PXE boot environment set up for testing). If it does work (I don't see why it wouldn't), your next question will be then why doesn't your doc tell me to do it that way?, which I can answer as well: I based a small portion of my written documentation on what others had written. Many of the other docs advocated doing the same, particularly for setting serial port speed, comconsole, blah blah (because there is no /boot.config used in this boot environment, so you can't do something like add -S115200 -Dh to that file). I chose to continue using that nomenclature. -- | Jeremy Chadwick j...@parodius.com | | Parodius Networking http://www.parodius.com/ | | UNIX Systems Administrator Mountain View, CA, USA | | Making life hard for others since 1977. PGP: 4BD6C0CB | ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-stable-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: net-booting the install disks (Re: 8.x grudges)
On Thu, Jul 08, 2010 at 11:08:04AM -0400, Mikhail T. wrote: 08.07.2010 09:53, Jeremy Chadwick написав(ла): Then don't modify loader.conf. Instead, once the Welcome to FreeBSD! portion of loader appears, press 6 to shell to the loader prompt and type: set vfs.root.mountfrom=ufs:/dev/md0 boot Yes, that works... It just should not be necessary. Okay, so let me get this straight. First the complaint was that you had to modify loader.conf, which involved extracting the CD image, editing the file, yadda yadda. Now that you've been shown you don't have to edit loader.conf, the complaint is it shouldn't be necessary. :-) There's actually quite a bit about FreeBSD that shouldn't be necessary (from an administrator's point of view), but that's a completely separate issue when compared to your when I do thing X in the kernel config, it breaks. Which of those two approaches do you want to focus on? Red Hat's kickstart does not require one to extract CD-images to fiddle with a couple of lines, and FreeBSD comes tantalizingly close to offer the same functionality. Just not quite :-( I've PXE booted Ubuntu and Debian. It was easy to accomplish (read: easier than FreeBSD) because they offer pxelinux vs. FreeBSD's pxeboot. pxelinux[1] offers the ability to read a configuration file via TFTP, which configures pxelinux itself. The configuration capabilities are very impressive[2]. FreeBSD folks interested in PXE should really take a look at this thing. I believe the configuration file is read and applied immediately, so things like serial port speed changes happen before pxelinux outputs anything (e.g. no need to rebuild pxelinux just to get a faster rate). That said, given that FreeBSD's pxeboot requires a bunch of extra work (rebuilding for faster serial speed, and a bunch of other stuff -- it's in my doc), I'm a surprised you're not complaining about that. :-) The bottom line: the PXE booting framework in FreeBSD could be improved. Even Randi would agree with this point, I think. But the question then becomes: what can you bring to the table which can help improve the situation? If you have the skills to help improve the situation, please help. By making it better for yourself, you can help make it better for everyone; a win-win situation. Anyway, your list of irritations when upgrading from 7.x to 8.x are mainly opinions -- and that's okay. I don't necessarily have a problem with your opinions, despite some being inaccurate or wrong; nothing wrong with being wrong! I'm not being sarcastic when I say I *do* appreciate the feedback you've provided (the method of approach is similar to how I go about things; I've quite a big list of WTFs when it comes to software in general), but you need to be reasonable and focus on a compromise. I think the community wants to help you but you definitely want things a certain way or have a lot of pre-conceived notions regarding what kernel or userland pieces should or should not change. That's just not a realistic way to approach computing these days. So like I said: things change. It's very hard to keep up with all the changes between major FreeBSD releases. The longevity of your use of FreeBSD doesn't matter -- I go back to the 2.2.x days. The difference between 2.x and 8.x is immense, and I'm talking on *all* levels. I had to adapt too, and it takes time to get familiar with all the changes. So please be a bit flexible and we'll do our best to help you fix what's broken *and* help you understand why things are different. [1]: http://syslinux.zytor.com/wiki/index.php/PXELINUX [2]: http://syslinux.zytor.com/wiki/index.php/SYSLINUX#How_do_I_Configure_SYSLINUX.3F (Not a typo; the pxelinux =~ syslinux, same options. See [1], section What is PXELINUX for validation) -- | Jeremy Chadwick j...@parodius.com | | Parodius Networking http://www.parodius.com/ | | UNIX Systems Administrator Mountain View, CA, USA | | Making life hard for others since 1977. PGP: 4BD6C0CB | ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-stable-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: net-booting the install disks (Re: 8.x grudges)
2010/7/7 Mikhail T. mi+t...@aldan.algebra.com:
07.07.2010 14:30, Randi Harper написав(ла):
8.
I tried to do an install on one of the systems via netbooting
(pxeload) the disk1-image. It booted, but the sysinstall had to be
started manually and, once started, did not act the same as when
booted off of CD-ROM. Seems like a simple bit to correct so that
setting init to /usr/sbin/sysinstall/manually on every boot/ is
not necessary...
This shouldn't be the case. IIRC, nothing has changed that would cause
this. More info on your environment please?
Well, I never tried this part before, so I'm not claiming, there is
regression here. Just lack of progress :-)
I have the following special entry in the dhcpd.conf:
subnet 192.168.1.0 netmask 255.255.255.0 {
range dynamic-bootp 192.168.1.150 192.168.1.186;
next-server 192.168.1.140;
option broadcast-address 192.168.1.255;
option routers 192.168.1.1;
option root-path 192.168.1.140:/cdrom;
filename pxeboot;
}
The filesystem accessible as /cdrom was an md-accessed
FreeBSD-8.1-RC1-i386-disc1.iso (or bootonly). Can't easily recreate this,
because the netbooting machine has now gone back to its owner.
The problem did not surprise me, because I followed (loosely) the
instructions, where it was mentioned -- along with a work-around. If some
simple logic can be put into the boot-image to allow it to do the right
thing without manual fiddling, it would be great. Thanks!
-mi
So you're complaining that you have to modify the loader.conf? I
fail to see the problem. This is by design, and isn't a lack of
progress.
-- randi
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