Re: [Freedos-devel] FreeDOS Branded C/C++ Toolchain

[Guti]

I am sure Jiri will be interested in those DOS library enhancements: 
https://github.com/open-watcom/open-watcom-v2
As for the fork, I see an additional problem, that will be outdated since it 
will not contain latest fixed by Jiri.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Remitente:Antony Gordon 
Destinatario: Technical discussion and questions for FreeDOS developers. 

Fecha:lunes, 15 de enero de 2018, 5:47:52
Asunto:   [Freedos-devel] FreeDOS Branded C/C++ Toolchain
Archivos: 
--===--
Hi,

I’m going to address all the emails at once instead of replying to multiple 
emails so it will be pretty easy to follow (I think). 

Jerome, it initially looks like that because I haven’t had the time to devote 
to fully building this idea out. Also, due to the amount of things involved in 
simply building OpenWatcom, i wanted to make sure it would compile and work 
before I did anything else major.

Jim and Steve, some of the reasons I am wanted to build a custom compiler 
toolchain based on OpenWatcom (kind of like what Microsoft did with Lattice C 
in 1983) is

The OpenWatcom toolchain is the reference compiler for FreeDOS.
Since the source is freely available with a license as such (instead of some of 
the abandoned but freely available compilers) it can be specifically customized 
for FreeDOS
Once completely built, all of the custom libraries that have been developed (or 
modified) for use with FreeDOS can be included with it, thereby making a 
customized toolchain.

 In the customized toolchain, all the non FreeDOS/DOS related stuff (Linux, 
Win32, Win64, and OS/2) would be removed. The OpenWatcom project MAY be 
interested in the custom libraries that we include specifically for FreeDOS 
development, and if so, I’d gladly send them over for inclusion, but I think 
the design goals of the OW project are different (at least for the C portion) 
which is making it compliant with the newer C/C++ standards and perhaps the 
Win32 and Win64 stuff.  

FreeDOS doesn’t have to be in the name, but I think having it there will 
signify while this is OpenWatcom, it will be a customized version tailored 
specifically for FreeDOS. 

-Tony

On Jan 14, 2018, at 6:21 PM, Steve Nickolas  wrote:

On Sun, 14 Jan 2018, Jim Hall wrote:

Hi Tony

I appreciate the effort, but I'm not sure I like the optics of
re-branding another project's work as "FreeDOS." That will seem like
we're trying to grab someone else's stuff and claim it as our own -
which we're not.

QFT.

Personal opinion: A "FreeDOS C" toolchain should really, IMO, if it should even 
exist, be a scratch one, not a rebadging of another toolchain.

-uso.

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Re: [Freedos-devel] FreeDOS Branded C/C++ Toolchain

[Antony Gordon]

Hi,

I’m going to address all the emails at once instead of replying to multiple 
emails so it will be pretty easy to follow (I think). 

Jerome, it initially looks like that because I haven’t had the time to devote 
to fully building this idea out. Also, due to the amount of things involved in 
simply building OpenWatcom, i wanted to make sure it would compile and work 
before I did anything else major.

Jim and Steve, some of the reasons I am wanted to build a custom compiler 
toolchain based on OpenWatcom (kind of like what Microsoft did with Lattice C 
in 1983) is

The OpenWatcom toolchain is the reference compiler for FreeDOS.
Since the source is freely available with a license as such (instead of some of 
the abandoned but freely available compilers) it can be specifically customized 
for FreeDOS
Once completely built, all of the custom libraries that have been developed (or 
modified) for use with FreeDOS can be included with it, thereby making a 
customized toolchain.

 In the customized toolchain, all the non FreeDOS/DOS related stuff (Linux, 
Win32, Win64, and OS/2) would be removed. The OpenWatcom project MAY be 
interested in the custom libraries that we include specifically for FreeDOS 
development, and if so, I’d gladly send them over for inclusion, but I think 
the design goals of the OW project are different (at least for the C portion) 
which is making it compliant with the newer C/C++ standards and perhaps the 
Win32 and Win64 stuff.  

FreeDOS doesn’t have to be in the name, but I think having it there will 
signify while this is OpenWatcom, it will be a customized version tailored 
specifically for FreeDOS. 

-Tony

> On Jan 14, 2018, at 6:21 PM, Steve Nickolas  wrote:
> 
> On Sun, 14 Jan 2018, Jim Hall wrote:
> 
>> Hi Tony
>> 
>> I appreciate the effort, but I'm not sure I like the optics of
>> re-branding another project's work as "FreeDOS." That will seem like
>> we're trying to grab someone else's stuff and claim it as our own -
>> which we're not.
> 
> QFT.
> 
> Personal opinion: A "FreeDOS C" toolchain should really, IMO, if it should 
> even exist, be a scratch one, not a rebadging of another toolchain.
> 
> -uso.
> 
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Re: [Freedos-devel] FreeDOS Branded C/C++ Toolchain

[Steve Nickolas]

On Sun, 14 Jan 2018, Jim Hall wrote:


Hi Tony

I appreciate the effort, but I'm not sure I like the optics of
re-branding another project's work as "FreeDOS." That will seem like
we're trying to grab someone else's stuff and claim it as our own -
which we're not.


QFT.

Personal opinion: A "FreeDOS C" toolchain should really, IMO, if it should 
even exist, be a scratch one, not a rebadging of another toolchain.


-uso.

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Re: [Freedos-devel] FreeDOS Branded C/C++ Toolchain

[Jim Hall]

Hi Tony

I appreciate the effort, but I'm not sure I like the optics of
re-branding another project's work as "FreeDOS." That will seem like
we're trying to grab someone else's stuff and claim it as our own -
which we're not.

We've rarely branded anything "FreeDOS" except for a few core things.
And that's always been done by the person who wrote the program; not
by us.

I don't see the need to rename OpenWatcom C/C++ to FreeDOS C/C++, or
OpenWatcom Assembler to FreeDOS Assembler.

If there's something new you've added to OpenWatcom in the process of
this work, I think it's better to contirbute those changes back to the
OpenWatcom folks.


Jim

On Sun, Jan 14, 2018 at 11:12 AM, Antony Gordon  wrote:
> Hi all and Happy New Year,
>
> I sent a screen shot, not knowing that there was a size limit on the emails, 
> so I’m resending as a text only message.
>
> I have been working on a project for FreeDOS for well over year and I think 
> it’s about ready for prime time. I thought it would be cool if there was a 
> FreeDOS branded toolchain, so I worked on the OpenWatcom code and re-branded 
> it to FreeDOS. It still has all of the OpenWatcom copyright information, 
> here’s an example from the WASM assembler.
>
> [Output from WASM]
> FreeDOS Assembler Version 2.0 beta Jan 13 2018 21:40:47 (32-bit)
> Copyright (c) 2002-2017 The Open Watcom Contributors. All Rights Reserved.
> Portions Copyright (c) 1992-2002 Sybase, Inc. All Rights Reserved.
> Source code is available under the Sybase Open Watcom Public License.
> See http://www.openwatcom.org/ for details.
>
> [Output from WCL]
> FreeDOS C/C++ x86 16-bit Compile and Link Utility
> Version 2.0 beta Jan 13 2018 22:29:44 (16-bit)
> Copyright (c) 2002-2017 The Open Watcom Contributors. All Rights Reserved.
> Portions Copyright (c) 1988-2002 Sybase, Inc. All Rights Reserved.
> Source code is available under the Sybase Open Watcom Public License.
> See http://www.openwatcom.org/ for details.
>
> The cool thing is that both the Watcom and FreeDOS toolchain can co-exist (as 
> long as you set your paths properly. I am going to install it in FreeDOS and 
> look for some code to compile in FreeDOS to see if it will work, especially 
> since this is 2.0 and not the 1.x branch.
>
> If anyone else would like to take it for a spin, let me know.
>
> -Tony
>
>
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> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
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Re: [Freedos-devel] FreeDOS Branded C/C++ Toolchain

[Jerome Shidel]

Hello,

Not sure I like renaming someone else’s tools and slapping the FreeDOS name on 
them. You really need to ask Jim Hall if he is fine with you using the FreeDOS 
name this way. 

Putting that issue aside for the moment, what is the advantage of this 
toolchain? 

You said you spent over a year working on it. But, other than changing the 
name, you don’t say what else you have done. What are the benefits over just 
using the original WASM & WCL?

Personally, I don’t use either. I prefer NASM & TP/FPC. But, I’m sure others 
would like to know the benefits of your tool chain.



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Re: [Freedos-devel] FreeDOS Branded C/C++ Toolchain

[Antony Gordon]

Hi all and Happy New Year,

I sent a screen shot, not knowing that there was a size limit on the emails, so 
I’m resending as a text only message.

I have been working on a project for FreeDOS for well over year and I think 
it’s about ready for prime time. I thought it would be cool if there was a 
FreeDOS branded toolchain, so I worked on the OpenWatcom code and re-branded it 
to FreeDOS. It still has all of the OpenWatcom copyright information, here’s an 
example from the WASM assembler.

[Output from WASM]
FreeDOS Assembler Version 2.0 beta Jan 13 2018 21:40:47 (32-bit)
Copyright (c) 2002-2017 The Open Watcom Contributors. All Rights Reserved.
Portions Copyright (c) 1992-2002 Sybase, Inc. All Rights Reserved.
Source code is available under the Sybase Open Watcom Public License.
See http://www.openwatcom.org/ for details.

[Output from WCL]
FreeDOS C/C++ x86 16-bit Compile and Link Utility
Version 2.0 beta Jan 13 2018 22:29:44 (16-bit)
Copyright (c) 2002-2017 The Open Watcom Contributors. All Rights Reserved.
Portions Copyright (c) 1988-2002 Sybase, Inc. All Rights Reserved.
Source code is available under the Sybase Open Watcom Public License.
See http://www.openwatcom.org/ for details.

The cool thing is that both the Watcom and FreeDOS toolchain can co-exist (as 
long as you set your paths properly. I am going to install it in FreeDOS and 
look for some code to compile in FreeDOS to see if it will work, especially 
since this is 2.0 and not the 1.x branch.

If anyone else would like to take it for a spin, let me know.

-Tony


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