Re: [Freedos-devel] mKEYB 0.40
On Thu, 18 Mar 2004, tom ehlert wrote: Neither are most compilers in use for FreeDOS (with the exception of watcom). LG ...and the Borland Museum compilers. AFAIR, the Borland museum compilers have a license similar to 'free for personal use. if you want to distribute compiled programs, you have to buy a license' Unfortunately, I didn't buy a license - so mkeyb.exe is still illegal. same for emm386, himem, more, if they were compiled by me. AFAIK, Eric doesn't have a license either; so this applies to his MODE, also. Don't know if Bart has a TC/BC license; else all old kernels (compiled with TC), are illegal, too. personal use applies to the compiler itself -- ie. you are not allowed to commercially redistribute that compiler. That's why it's not allowed to be on ibiblio for instance. Compiled programs are a different story. This was clarified by David Intersimone -- I was also confused about this. There are at least two places where he has said this: http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=3CCF4B75.D4B81422%40borland.com and in the forum http://threads.borland.com/threads/threads.exe/view?commentid=24952view=short From my POV the main issue with these museum compilers is that they are just that. We can't rely on them forever, bugs can be fixed in OpenWatcom, the optimizer can be improved and so on, whereas all Borland 16bit compilers are dead. Bart --- This SF.Net email is sponsored by: IBM Linux Tutorials Free Linux tutorial presented by Daniel Robbins, President and CEO of GenToo technologies. Learn everything from fundamentals to system administration.http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=1470alloc_id=3638op=click ___ Freedos-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-devel
Re: [Freedos-devel] mKEYB 0.40
Hi! 18--2004 08:14 [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Michael Devore) wrote to [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Don't know if Bart has a TC/BC license; else all old kernels (compiled with TC), are illegal, too. MD Shhh! The Borland Compliance Engineer may hear you. I wonder how one goes MD about getting a compliance engineer certification. It sounds like a fun MD job. My BC3.1 (with AF) was buyed some years ago, so paranoid man may ask me to recompile executable, which should be redistributed. :) --- This SF.Net email is sponsored by: IBM Linux Tutorials Free Linux tutorial presented by Daniel Robbins, President and CEO of GenToo technologies. Learn everything from fundamentals to system administration.http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id70alloc_id638op=click ___ Freedos-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-devel
Re: [Freedos-devel] mKEYB 0.40
On Thu, 18 Mar 2004, tom ehlert wrote: JH What about Pat Villani, who wrote prf.c and portab.h? this prf.c was written by the author of mkeyb, NOT pat villani. yes, prf.c was completely recoded in the early days I started maintaining the kernel. It's had some more updates from me in the kernel source (using stdarg.h etc) but these are not in mkeyb anyway. Who can sue Tom for changing the license? The copyright holders. Will they sue Tom? They'll have a tough time in court (because the contributions are minor and close to fair use) and need to spend lots of money. Why should I sue Tom? He seems to be a nice guy... I just chose to avoid the grey area by not using it. Distribute uncompressed executables, let the end user decide which exepacker is best for him. It's what Steffen does with freecom and I do with freecoma and sys in the kernel zip. Or use UPX (UPX-UCL if you're really paranoid -- I'm getting really tired of the NRV ranting, remember that NDAs are really nothing special, it just matters *what* they state, I even had to sign one for a pretty basic summer job 10 years ago, so I'll probably just use UPX-UCL for the next kernel version to avoid all issues). Bart --- This SF.Net email is sponsored by: IBM Linux Tutorials Free Linux tutorial presented by Daniel Robbins, President and CEO of GenToo technologies. Learn everything from fundamentals to system administration.http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=1470alloc_id=3638op=click ___ Freedos-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-devel
Re: [Freedos-devel] mKEYB 0.40
tom ehlert wrote: Hello Jim, JH I assume you mean yourself? Or do you mean Anton Zinoviev, since he JH wrote several files from scratch? several ? and I will immediately remove the BG keyboard from MKEYB, should he ask me. Yes, looks like BG. Looking at the mkeyb 0.40 zip file: /* keydefbg.h */ /* * history * 22 may 03: Anton Zinoviev [EMAIL PROTECTED] - creation */ /* keydefbp.h */ /* * history * 22 may 03: Anton Zinoviev [EMAIL PROTECTED] - creation */ JH Or perhaps Henrique Peron, the original author? there never was, is, or will ever be a single line from henrique peron. stop dreaming. Comments in the code imply otherwise, but perhaps I am mistaken. From mkeyb 0.40: /* keydefbr.h */ #define NAME(x) x##_BR #include dos.h #include mkeyb.h #define COMBI /***comments from original author (Henrique Peron - [EMAIL PROTECTED])*** ABNT Brazilian XKeyb keyboard layout. Henrique Peron [EMAIL PROTECTED] / /* keydefbx.h */ #define NAME(x) x##_BX #include dos.h #include mkeyb.h #define COMBI /***comments from original author (Henrique Peron - [EMAIL PROTECTED])*** ABNT Brazilian XKeyb keyboard layout, extended edition. This layout can be used with codepages 850 or 858. Henrique Peron - [EMAIL PROTECTED] JH What about Pat Villani, who wrote prf.c and portab.h? this prf.c was written by the author of mkeyb, NOT pat villani. Your distribution says otherwise. From the mkeyb 0.40 release: // /* */ /* portab.h */ /* */ /* DOS-C portability typedefs, etc. */ /* */ /* May 1, 1995 */ /* */ /* Copyright (c) 1995 */ /* Pasquale J. Villani */ /* All Rights Reserved */ /* */ /* This file is part of DOS-C. */ /* */ /* DOS-C is free software; you can redistribute it and/or */ /* modify it under the terms of the GNU General Public License */ /* as published by the Free Software Foundation; either version */ /* 2, or (at your option) any later version.*/ /* */ /* DOS-C is distributed in the hope that it will be useful, but */ /* WITHOUT ANY WARRANTY; without even the implied warranty of */ /* MERCHANTABILITY or FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE. See*/ /* the GNU General Public License for more details. */ // /* */ /*prf.c */ /* */ /* Abbreviated printf Function */ /* */ /* Copyright (c) 1995 */ /* Pasquale J. Villani */ /* All Rights Reserved */ /* */ /* This file is part of DOS-C. */ /* */ /* DOS-C is free software; you can redistribute it and/or */ /* modify it under the terms of the GNU General Public License */ /* as published by the Free Software Foundation; either version */ /* 2, or (at your option) any later version.*/ /* */ /* DOS-C is distributed in the hope that it will be useful, but */ /* WITHOUT ANY WARRANTY; without even the implied warranty of */ /* MERCHANTABILITY or FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE. See*/ /* the GNU General Public License for more details. */ /* */ /* You should have received a copy of the GNU General Public*/ -- _ This email message has been automatically encrypted using ROT-26. --- This SF.Net email is sponsored by: IBM Linux Tutorials Free Linux tutorial presented by Daniel Robbins, President and CEO of GenToo technologies. Learn everything from fundamentals to
Re: [Freedos-devel] mKEYB 0.40
Bart, BO Who can sue Tom for changing the license? The copyright holders. There aren't any. contributing to a project doesn't mean you get a copyright. BO Will they BO sue Tom? They'll have a tough time in court (because the contributions BO are minor and close to fair use) only 'close' to fair use ? BO Why should I sue Tom? He seems to be a nice guy... :)) BO I just chose to avoid the grey area by not using it. Distribute BO uncompressed executables, let the end user decide which exepacker is BO best for him. IMO that's a very bad decision - close to 'distribute source only' IMO providing precompiled binaries (and that includes compression) in the kernel, that becomes even much worse, as you can't just exepack the kernel. to do that, you would have to download watcom, setup,... just to exepack the kernel; hardly something for joe average. BO It's what Steffen does with freecom and I do with BO freecoma and sys in the kernel zip. Or use UPX (UPX-UCL if you're really BO paranoid -- I'm getting really tired of the NRV ranting, remember that BO NDAs are really nothing special, it just matters *what* they state, I BO even had to sign one for a pretty basic summer job 10 years ago, so I'll BO probably just use UPX-UCL for the next kernel version to avoid all BO issues). Well - when I made UPX compressed kernel possible, I certainly did not intend that it be used with a second grade exepacker. BO Distribute BO uncompressed executables, let the end user decide which exepacker is BO best for him. Even if that would be a sensible option ( which I doubt), this ignores the case where people (like me) distribute a prepackaged bootable floppy (rom image,CD,...), where exepacking it on enduser site is simply not possible. and that's the point where it hurts: that I can't exepack KERNEL.SYS and FREECOM.COM with aPack to save some Kbyte (200 byte in mkeyb aren't important) tom --- This SF.Net email is sponsored by: IBM Linux Tutorials Free Linux tutorial presented by Daniel Robbins, President and CEO of GenToo technologies. Learn everything from fundamentals to system administration.http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=1470alloc_id=3638op=click ___ Freedos-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-devel
Re: [Freedos-devel] mKEYB 0.40
On Thu, 18 Mar 2004 16:12:41 +0100, tom ehlert wrote: Or do you mean Anton Zinoviev, since he wrote several files from scratch? several ? and I will immediately remove the BG keyboard from MKEYB, should he ask me. As an active Linux developer he probably doesn't care, and even if it does this, I'll write you a free replacement! (If I could do this ten years ago for Linux, why not do it now for DOS? ;-) Lucho --- This SF.Net email is sponsored by: IBM Linux Tutorials Free Linux tutorial presented by Daniel Robbins, President and CEO of GenToo technologies. Learn everything from fundamentals to system administration.http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=1470alloc_id=3638op=click ___ Freedos-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-devel
Re: [Freedos-devel] mKEYB 0.40
On Wed, 17 Mar 2004 10:54:16 +0100, tom ehlert wrote: MKEYB 0.40 released website http://www.drivesnapshot.de/freedos/mkeyb.htm download http://www.drivesnapshot.de/freedos/mkeyb.zip changes: now uses APACK for 200 byte smaller executable licensing changed to allow distribution of APACK'ed executables Great! But when I downloaded it, it turned out to be... the old version (0.39)! :-( Lucho --- This SF.Net email is sponsored by: IBM Linux Tutorials Free Linux tutorial presented by Daniel Robbins, President and CEO of GenToo technologies. Learn everything from fundamentals to system administration.http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=1470alloc_id=3638op=click ___ Freedos-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-devel
Re: [Freedos-devel] mKEYB 0.40
On Wed, 17 Mar 2004, Luchezar Georgiev wrote: On Wed, 17 Mar 2004 10:54:16 +0100, tom ehlert wrote: MKEYB 0.40 released website http://www.drivesnapshot.de/freedos/mkeyb.htm download http://www.drivesnapshot.de/freedos/mkeyb.zip changes: now uses APACK for 200 byte smaller executable licensing changed to allow distribution of APACK'ed executables Great! But when I downloaded it, it turned out to be... the old version (0.39)! :-( I wonder why you'd want to save 200 bytes anyway, when the disk space used is exactly the same (8002 - 7802, both 16 sectors)? Bart --- This SF.Net email is sponsored by: IBM Linux Tutorials Free Linux tutorial presented by Daniel Robbins, President and CEO of GenToo technologies. Learn everything from fundamentals to system administration.http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=1470alloc_id=3638op=click ___ Freedos-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-devel
Re: [Freedos-devel] mKEYB 0.40
Hi! 17--2004 08:12 [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Jim Hall) wrote to [EMAIL PROTECTED]: MKEYB 0.40 released As sayed Lucho there is 0.39. JH I think there's a problem here. If you recall the discussion with Dave JH Turner (FSF), he said: I heard that you were considering a proprietary executable compression scheme for FreeDOS. I'm just writing to let you know the licensing and freedom implications of this. Again: looks like here is misunderstanding. Exepacking is not use compression inside program and, until exepacker license allows free unpacking stubs (unarchiver) distribution, there shouldn't be any problem. Or I misunderstand GPL and it prevents packing GPLed programs into archives (by unfree programs or programs, with proprietary compression schemes) and it prevents distribution GPLed programs together with unfree software (whereas this unfree software isn't required for free executable and isn't its essential part)? --- This SF.Net email is sponsored by: IBM Linux Tutorials Free Linux tutorial presented by Daniel Robbins, President and CEO of GenToo technologies. Learn everything from fundamentals to system administration.http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id70alloc_id638op=click ___ Freedos-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-devel
Re: [Freedos-devel] mKEYB 0.40
MKEYB 0.40 released changes: now uses APACK for 200 byte smaller executable licensing changed to allow distribution of APACK'ed executables JH What you have indicated in your release is that you modified the license JH to allow distribution of the aPack'ed binary. However, you need to have JH written agreement from all copyright holders in order to do this. There is exactly one copyright holder - and I don't need written agreement from him. JH We need to have written agreement from all copyright holders for this Don't know you you need - I don't. I'm not bored enough to start another 'exepackers are compilers or not' war - so i changed the license EOT tom --- This SF.Net email is sponsored by: IBM Linux Tutorials Free Linux tutorial presented by Daniel Robbins, President and CEO of GenToo technologies. Learn everything from fundamentals to system administration.http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=1470alloc_id=3638op=click ___ Freedos-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-devel
Re: [Freedos-devel] mKEYB 0.40
MKEYB 0.40 released ... LG Great! But when I downloaded it, it turned out to be... the old version LG (0.39)! :-( Don't know why it wasn't uploaded, but now it is. You may have to refresh your browsers cache, otherwise you might still get the old version. BO I wonder why you'd want to save 200 bytes anyway, when the disk space used BO is exactly the same (8002 - 7802, both 16 sectors)? Because it will hit the next cluster border 200 byte (~1 language) later. tom --- This SF.Net email is sponsored by: IBM Linux Tutorials Free Linux tutorial presented by Daniel Robbins, President and CEO of GenToo technologies. Learn everything from fundamentals to system administration.http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=1470alloc_id=3638op=click ___ Freedos-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-devel
Re: [Freedos-devel] mKEYB 0.40
On Wed, 17 Mar 2004 14:33:15 + (GMT), you wrote: Hi Bart, Great! But when I downloaded it, it turned out to be... the old version (0.39)! :-( I wonder why you'd want to save 200 bytes anyway, when the disk space used is exactly the same (8002 - 7802, both 16 sectors)? Lucho may want to squeeze the program into a flash disk or ROM, that's why every byte is precious. But ASPACK is not free! I'm worry about the copyright problem will happen again. Rgds, Johnson. --- This SF.Net email is sponsored by: IBM Linux Tutorials Free Linux tutorial presented by Daniel Robbins, President and CEO of GenToo technologies. Learn everything from fundamentals to system administration.http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id70alloc_id638op=click ___ Freedos-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-devel
