Re: [Freedos-kernel] Information wants to be free
Bom dia, Alain! I believe that being hated as much as a certain man is a matter of behaviour. I always use this analogy: Oracle's product are very expensive, but their custumers are content and Oracle is not hated at all. M$ make we feel bad, not because they charge, but because they force us in ways that we want not, or something like that... (I believe that this would happen even if their product was not so bad) I agree. William Henry Gates the Third is not a human. And he has not been such even 25 years ago. Currently I improve (cure) my nose, so I again delay my answer around a week. Can someone translate that from Russian :) (It could be some code that the CIA should not see) He wanted to say that his nose was running because he suffered from cold and he was curing himself Be healthy, Arkady! Lucho --- SF.Net email is sponsored by Shop4tech.com-Lowest price on Blank Media 100pk Sonic DVD-R 4x for only $29 -100pk Sonic DVD+R for only $33 Save 50% off Retail on Ink Toner - Free Shipping and Free Gift. http://www.shop4tech.com/z/Inkjet_Cartridges/9_108_r285 ___ Freedos-kernel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-kernel
Re: [Freedos-kernel] Information wants to be free
Hi! 22--2004 22:39 [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Alain) wrote to [EMAIL PROTECTED]: PS: Currently I improve (cure) my nose, so I again delay my answer around a week. A Can someone translate that from Russian :) Don't worry, personal medical issues, which are now solved. Russian proverb: troubles come not alone, so, as result, (was) less attention to FreeDOS development and emailing in groups. A (It could be some code that the CIA should not see) --- SF.Net email is sponsored by Shop4tech.com-Lowest price on Blank Media 100pk Sonic DVD-R 4x for only $29 -100pk Sonic DVD+R for only $33 Save 50% off Retail on Ink Toner - Free Shipping and Free Gift. http://www.shop4tech.com/z/Inkjet_Cartridges/9_108_r285 ___ Freedos-kernel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-kernel
Re: [Freedos-kernel] Information wants to be free
tom ehlert escreveu: Do you really think after having sold thousand copies, I'm a good programmer, who deserves any dollar he makes, and after selling millions copies (and having charged money for it) I'll be suddenly an immoral man ? IMO it will (or propably 'would') still be the same thing: the customer gets some value for some amount of money. if the product is good enough, that the customer is happy - great. if not - not so great. But the customers contentness is probably not related to the fact, that I'm billionaire or not. I believe that being hated as much as a certain man is a matter of behaviour. I always use this analogy: Oracle's product are very expensive, but their custumers are content and Oracle is not hated at all. M$ make we feel bad, not because they charge, but because they force us in ways that we want not, or something like that... (I believe that this would happen even if their product was not so bad) Alain --- SF.Net email is sponsored by Shop4tech.com-Lowest price on Blank Media 100pk Sonic DVD-R 4x for only $29 -100pk Sonic DVD+R for only $33 Save 50% off Retail on Ink Toner - Free Shipping and Free Gift. http://www.shop4tech.com/z/Inkjet_Cartridges/9_108_r285 ___ Freedos-kernel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-kernel
Re: [Freedos-kernel] Information wants to be free
Hallo Bart and Tom, In this case, instead of pursuing a technical solution (Open Watcom is open source so can be changed) to reach a certain goal, you suggest I go for an illegal black-box solution, the cowards' way out. All right, I was a fly, now I'm a coward. Very well. Perhaps I'm something like a flying coward :) By ignoring Borland's copyright you indirectly hurt the OW project because the other means to reach your goal would be to modify it. All right, Bart, I feel like an elephant in a glass store here - whatever I do breaks something. I don't understand why I hurt OpenWatcom?! I like this compiler very much and if you help me achieve smaller compressed kernel size with it, I'll gladly drop Borland, because I don't like it at all! Otherwise I find your comments very interesting and must agree with most of them. Not only Bulgarians. 3/4 of the world thinks so. And many Americans and Germans too, by the way. there is a german saying 'hey guys - eat shit! Billions of flies can't be wrong' So we're just billions of flies to you. Very well :) Otherwise it's a great anti-fashion proverb. information is as much a product as a car or a house, and it costs similar effort. I disagree. Building 1000 houses costs one almost 1000 times more than a single house. Making 1000 copies of a program costs one much less than developing the program itself. It's a false analogy. Aren't 10 copies of Windows enough to cover its development costs? But no, they sell 1, with an 10% profit! What's this if not a huge exploitation of the whole world by a single corporation? That's why I'll be so happy when Microsoft die, as Joe Cosentino signs in his FreeDOS song ;-) and the people who made this product must be paid - some way or the other. I agree, but by buying a second-hand BC copy Bart wouldn't pay the Borland programmers in any way. just because you can technically copy it (whithout causing me any direct harm) does NOT imply you MAY do that. Legally wise - yes, but my conscience is 100% clear. You know that I'm not really such a coward :) please accept the fact, that there is FREE information, and for some other information you have to pay, or you will kill the producer in the long run (because he will starve to death) Oh, if I could starve Microsoft to death! Alas, as Bart suggest, it seems I even help them grow :( it's simple as that: they want your money IF you use their software. they offer you a deal, which you can accept - or deny. stop using their software, and you don't have to pay them a dime. If I stop using it, what will they gain? Nothing! There is no logic here. I assume your company produces some sort of (hardware) gadget, that it sells - which in the end ends up as salary in your pockets. I wonder what happens if I rip off your gadgets design and internal software, 'reengineer' the gadget, produce it myself (at much lower cost as I don't have to pay the engineers), and sell it at a price below your gadget. probably neither your employer nor you what be very glad in the end. This cowardly deed has nothing to do with mine. I don't use BC as a competitor of Borland. I'm not a threat to them. Whereas you (in the role you describe) would kill our product with what you do. But we know that the world we live in is so nasty, so we've taken measures against such actions :) I'd like to add that we must consider standards of living too. When I say 3/4 of the world thinks so, I also mean that 3/4 of the world is so poor they can't pay even a modest price for a piece of software. The majority where I belong, whereas you probably belong to the minority. Imagine you're asked to pay not $70 but $700 for a copy of 4DOS. Would you do it? Hardly, however lawful you are. OK, Tom, neither of us can convince the other one. So, let's not argue anymore, OK? It's always nice to hear your opinion on a topic I understand much worse than you do. Regards, Lucho --- SF.Net email is sponsored by Shop4tech.com-Lowest price on Blank Media 100pk Sonic DVD-R 4x for only $29 -100pk Sonic DVD+R for only $33 Save 50% off Retail on Ink Toner - Free Shipping and Free Gift. http://www.shop4tech.com/z/Inkjet_Cartridges/9_108_r285 ___ Freedos-kernel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-kernel
Re: [Freedos-kernel] Information wants to be free
Hi! 21--2004 17:43 [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Luchezar Georgiev) wrote to [EMAIL PROTECTED]: LG I agree, but by buying a second-hand BC copy Bart wouldn't pay the Borland LG programmers in any way. Companies like RIAA and MPAA strive against reselling services (like one on Amazon). --- SF.Net email is sponsored by Shop4tech.com-Lowest price on Blank Media 100pk Sonic DVD-R 4x for only $29 -100pk Sonic DVD+R for only $33 Save 50% off Retail on Ink Toner - Free Shipping and Free Gift. http://www.shop4tech.com/z/Inkjet_Cartridges/9_108_r285 ___ Freedos-kernel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-kernel
Re: [Freedos-kernel] Information wants to be free
Hello Luchezar, Not only Bulgarians. 3/4 of the world thinks so. And many Americans and Germans too, by the way. there is a german saying 'hey guys - eat shit! Billions of flies can't be wrong' So we're just billions of flies to you. Very well :) Otherwise it's a great anti-fashion proverb. no. it means 'just because many, many people do X, that doesn't prove X to be right' (nor does it prove it's wrong) information is as much a product as a car or a house, and it costs similar effort. I disagree. Building 1000 houses costs one almost 1000 times more than a single house. Making 1000 copies of a program costs one much less than developing the program itself. It's a false analogy. but developing just one copy of a program (that is worht to be bought) is usually more expensive than building a house; after it's finished it's indeed fairly inexpensive to sell it multiple times. unfortunately I haven't yet found many customers that pay me the price of a house for a single copy;) So I sold the first copy of Drive Snapshot for the same price as the thousandth, and (of course hope to sell millions). Do you really think after having sold thousand copies, I'm a good programmer, who deserves any dollar he makes, and after selling millions copies (and having charged money for it) I'll be suddenly an immoral man ? IMO it will (or propably 'would') still be the same thing: the customer gets some value for some amount of money. if the product is good enough, that the customer is happy - great. if not - not so great. But the customers contentness is probably not related to the fact, that I'm billionaire or not. tom --- SF.Net email is sponsored by Shop4tech.com-Lowest price on Blank Media 100pk Sonic DVD-R 4x for only $29 -100pk Sonic DVD+R for only $33 Save 50% off Retail on Ink Toner - Free Shipping and Free Gift. http://www.shop4tech.com/z/Inkjet_Cartridges/9_108_r285 ___ Freedos-kernel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-kernel
Re: [Freedos-kernel] Information wants to be free
Hi! 20--2004 20:45 [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Bart Oldeman) wrote to [EMAIL PROTECTED]: BO In this case, instead of pursuing a technical solution (Open Watcom is BO open source so can be changed) to reach a certain goal, you suggest I go BO for an illegal black-box solution, the cowards' way out. By ignoring BO Borland's copyright you indirectly hurt the OW project because the other BO means to reach your goal would be to modify it. I should agree with this, especially because I begin to use OW. Anyway, I suggest, better to apply optimizations, which noticeably helps for BC and not (much) hurt OW code, especially if these optimizations are not standalone, but parts of other changes. PS: Currently I improve (cure) my nose, so I again delay my answer around a week. --- SF.Net email is sponsored by Shop4tech.com-Lowest price on Blank Media 100pk Sonic DVD-R 4x for only $29 -100pk Sonic DVD+R for only $33 Save 50% off Retail on Ink Toner - Free Shipping and Free Gift. http://www.shop4tech.com/z/Inkjet_Cartridges/9_108_r285 ___ Freedos-kernel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-kernel
Re: [Freedos-kernel] Information wants to be free
Hallo Tom, It's not worth a penny because it can be freely downloaded from Vietnam (I posted the URL here ;-) I know bulgarians think that way. Not only Bulgarians. 3/4 of the world thinks so. And many Americans and Germans too, by the way. It's still theft. It would be a theft if I *move* the files. If I copy them, I don't deprive anybody form anything. The whole nature of information allows copying, so it cannot be private property of anyone. All information but some reasonably secret and personal data must be free for everyone. Quite the contrary, corporations steal our money when they ask us to buy their software. Microsoft stole everything they released. The criminals are they, not we. There is no fair (honest) way to become a millionnaire or a billionaire. And because we're not millionaires or billionaires, we're not criminals. Good programmers who really deserve money, like you or Joergen Ibsen, get it even from people like me. I registered my copy of aPack! Would I register it if it it was made by a corporation like Borland? Never! They're too rich anyway! Copyright is dying, long life copyleft! ;-) Regards, Lucho --- SF.Net email is sponsored by Shop4tech.com-Lowest price on Blank Media 100pk Sonic DVD-R 4x for only $29 -100pk Sonic DVD+R for only $33 Save 50% off Retail on Ink Toner - Free Shipping and Free Gift. http://www.shop4tech.com/z/Inkjet_Cartridges/9_108_r285 ___ Freedos-kernel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-kernel
Re: [Freedos-kernel] Information wants to be free
Hello Luchezar, It's not worth a penny because it can be freely downloaded from Vietnam (I posted the URL here ;-) I know bulgarians think that way. Not only Bulgarians. 3/4 of the world thinks so. And many Americans and Germans too, by the way. there is a german saying 'hey guys - eat shit! Billions of flies can't be wrong' It's still theft. It would be a theft if I *move* the files. If I copy them, I don't deprive anybody form anything. The whole nature of information allows copying sorry - no. information is as much a product as a car or a house, and it costs similar effort. and the people who made this product must be paid - some way or the other. just because you can technically copy it (whithout causing me any direct harm) does NOT imply you MAY do that. please accept the fact, that there is FREE information, and for some other information you have to pay, or you will kill the producer in the long run (because he will starve to death) Quite the contrary, corporations steal our money when they ask us to buy their software. it's simple as that: they want your money IF you use their software. they offer you a deal, which you can accept - or deny. stop using their software, and you don't have to pay them a dime. Copyright is dying, long life copyleft! ;-) I assume your company produces some sort of (hardware) gadget, that it sells - which in the end ends up as salary in your pockets. I wonder what happens if I rip off your gadgets design and internal software, 'reengineer' the gadget, produce it myself (at much lower cost as I don't have to pay the engineers), and sell it at a price below your gadget. probably neither your employer nor you what be very glad in the end. tom --- SF.Net email is sponsored by Shop4tech.com-Lowest price on Blank Media 100pk Sonic DVD-R 4x for only $29 -100pk Sonic DVD+R for only $33 Save 50% off Retail on Ink Toner - Free Shipping and Free Gift. http://www.shop4tech.com/z/Inkjet_Cartridges/9_108_r285 ___ Freedos-kernel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-kernel
