Re: [Freedos-user] DOS/16M (was: FreeDOS 1.2 installed on iMac (2011) - success but there are issues)
Hello Hollowone PL, hello Eric Auer, DOS/16M error: [26] 8042 timeout DOS/16M error: [26] 8042 timeout ... The 8042 is the keyboard controller. You are using the rEFInd boot manager on iMac, without Bootcamp. I assume that means you had to load some CSM, either provided by Apple or by rEFInd, to have BIOS services for FreeDOS? Apparently it does not simulate a keyboard controller, while DOS/16M, the DOS extender of your app, is trying to access the keyboard without relying on BIOS services for that? It might be that DOS/4GW was trying to use the keyboard controller ports to read or toggle the A20 enable status (https://www.win.tue.nl/~aeb/linux/kbd/A20.html), or some such. Open Watcom's wmake.exe does use DOS/4GW. (And, in its internal messages, DOS/4GW sometimes confusingly refers to itself as "DOS/16M"...) In any case, I suppose yes, perhaps loading another DOS extender (such as DOS/32A), or pre-loading CWSDPMI, would work around the problem. Thank you! -- https://github.com/tkchia ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] DOS/16M (was: FreeDOS 1.2 installed on iMac (2011) - success but there are issues)
Hi! > After quick reboot my steps to repro the problem are as following: > -> FreeDOS boots up, I enter NDN, browse to OpenWatcom 1.9 BINW folder and > type 'wmake' > > [Result] > App shows all the info it should for no targets specified, I assume on exit > it just crashes and hangs the whole system with a message: > DOS/16M error: [26] 8042 timeout > DOS/16M error: [26] 8042 timeout ... The 8042 is the keyboard controller. You are using the rEFInd boot manager on iMac, without Bootcamp. I assume that means you had to load some CSM, either provided by Apple or by rEFInd, to have BIOS services for FreeDOS? Apparently it does not simulate a keyboard controller, while DOS/16M, the DOS extender of your app, is trying to access the keyboard without relying on BIOS services for that? DOS itself expects mostly BIOS services to exist, it does not use much hardware directly. Exceptions could include the PC speaker for FreeCOM command com beeping. DOS apps tend to rely on DOS, but in particular for graphics, they may expect VGA hardware and not just VGA BIOS services. For sound, barely any DOS app uses the BIOS and BIOS sound services such as VBE/AI are not supported by classic DOS sound cards predating them. So it is a very interesting question what works and what does not work with your iMac setup. I would hope that at least some graphics, disk, keyboard and mouse do work? Please tell me more about your CSM or similar components and their DOS support. While it is not exactly DOS/16M, you could try DOS4GW alternative DOS32A https://dos32a.narechk.net/index_en.html for improved compatibility or pre-load DPMIONE or at least CWSDPMI to force other DOS extenders to rely on the pre-loaded services instead. Regards, Eric >> *[1] How did I install FreeDOS on iMac* >> That was relatively easy once I installed this boot manager: >> https://www.rodsbooks.com/refind/ >> With it I can install Linux, Windows and FreeDOS from a bootable CD or USB ... ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] DOS/16M (was: FreeDOS 1.2 installed on iMac (2011) - success but there are issues)
Thanks for your replies, to address your comments in one message: *[1] How did I install FreeDOS on iMac* That was relatively easy once I installed this boot manager: https://www.rodsbooks.com/refind/ With it I can install Linux, Windows and FreeDOS from a bootable CD or USB quite easily and aside of FreeDOS, no Bootcamp is required to start the process. Happy to provide more step by step instructions if they are really required. *[2] 64bit stub. *Yes I'm aware of the software and the code. The sample code actually ran quite well *[3] As for the errors with DOS16/M exceptions and other errors I'm experiencing.* Actually that has nothing yet to do with 64bit tests I wanted to do. Once I installed FreeDOS I have migrated there a lot of test software to experiment with. Starting from Norton Commander 5.0 and the latest build of Necromancer's DOS Navigator. Tried to launch various demoscene demos of the late 90ties, even tried Doom. Then I tried Open Watcom 1.9 from FreeDOS packages to start compiling some code found to support my experiment. What I found is that unzip provided with the FreeDOS is generating the error. Various DOS4GW based 32bit demoscene demos are causing it and also Open Watcom compiler and wmake is crashing my system with these exceptions as well. Funny Watcom 10.6 works just fine. Additional interesting symptom I see is that when I copy files or unzip files that have lots of files (or perhaps larger one, I'm not sure yet), it just freezes the system endlessly. I just reboot, I have no patience to check if this is some 15 minutes (the longest streak) cache issue or it just crashed with no system or app level handler for it. I will provide exact error in a second when I switch between systems to generate it and add it in another message [4] One more thing perhaps you can help to identify, iMac has *HD Audio *compatible sound card. There was some software written by some Polish dude in the past that was extending Judas Player with HD Audio capacity I found. but when I ran it it effectively discovered HD Audio over PCI but any actual playback and other elements of true driver implementation are not there. Do you know anything about working HD Audio software for DOS? - Best, hollowone On Thu, Nov 12, 2020 at 11:28 AM TK Chia wrote: > Hello Hollowone PL, > > > With this I have few starter question as a user: > > - DOS16/m is a 16bit protected mode extender. Does it mean that FreeDOS > > runs in 16bit protected mode from the command line or perhaps some driver > > is interfering or rather the iMac I use has hardware that may cause some > > obvious incompatibilities. > > Can you give us more details about the issue(s) you encountered? For > example, which particular tools were you trying to use? What were the > error messages? Was FreeDOS running in "really" Real Mode, or in > Virtual 8086 mode? > > (Meanwhile, my wild guess is that the errors were because the iMac is > not quite compatible with the IBM PC at the lower levels --- especially > the layout of physical memory and I/O ports. But maybe I am wrong.) > > And, I would very much like to know more about how you got FreeDOS > working on a UEFI machine. I have lately been trying to find > information on this. :-) > > Hello Random Liegh, hello Jose Senna, > > >> I'm not sure what DOS16/m is -it sounds like a DPMI server? If so, then > it provides 32-bit addressing >to dos programs. > > AFA I remember, DOS/16M is a DOS extender to allow use of DOS in > protected mode. > > It predates DPMI specification and is geared towards the 16-bit > protected mode > > available in the '286. > > I recall there was the DOS/16M DOS extender --- for the 286's 16-bit > protected mode --- and also DOS/4G --- for the 386's 32-bit protected > mode --- by Rational Software. > > (16M would refer to the 24-bit physical address space supported by the > 286.) > > For some reason, Open Watcom still has some vestigial support for > producing DOS/16M executables, and the OW source code provides some > information on the format of these things. > > Thank you! > > -- > https://github.com/tkchia > > > ___ > Freedos-user mailing list > Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user > ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] DOS/16M (was: FreeDOS 1.2 installed on iMac (2011) - success but there are issues)
After quick reboot my steps to repro the problem are as following: -> FreeDOS boots up, I enter NDN, browse to OpenWatcom 1.9 BINW folder and type 'wmake' [Result] App shows all the info it should for no targets specified, I assume on exit it just crashes and hangs the whole system with a message: DOS/16M error: [26] 8042 timeout DOS/16M error: [26] 8042 timeout DOS/16M error: [26] 8042 timeout DOS/16M error: [26] 8042 timeout DOS/16M error: [26] 8042 timeout ... multiple lines with the same thing. Google search not helpful on the line that pops up. Now I wonder if this is part of - the OS - or the app (which is compiled against DOS4GW, 32bit protected mode extension, - or perhaps that refind and legacy bios or some hardware conflict is causing it or obviously combination of all.. but how to troubleshoot it more to identify the root cause? /h1 On Fri, Nov 13, 2020 at 10:53 PM Hollowone PL wrote: > Thanks for your replies, to address your comments in one message: > > *[1] How did I install FreeDOS on iMac* > That was relatively easy once I installed this boot manager: > https://www.rodsbooks.com/refind/ > With it I can install Linux, Windows and FreeDOS from a bootable CD or USB > quite easily and aside of FreeDOS, no Bootcamp is required to start the > process. > Happy to provide more step by step instructions if they are really > required. > > *[2] 64bit stub. *Yes I'm aware of the software and the code. The sample > code actually ran quite well > > *[3] As for the errors with DOS16/M exceptions and other errors I'm > experiencing.* > Actually that has nothing yet to do with 64bit tests I wanted to do. Once > I installed FreeDOS I have migrated there a lot of test software to > experiment with. > Starting from Norton Commander 5.0 and the latest build of Necromancer's > DOS Navigator. Tried to launch various demoscene demos of the late 90ties, > even tried Doom. > Then I tried Open Watcom 1.9 from FreeDOS packages to start compiling some > code found to support my experiment. > > What I found is that unzip provided with the FreeDOS is generating the > error. Various DOS4GW based 32bit demoscene demos are causing it and also > Open Watcom compiler and wmake is crashing my system with these exceptions > as well. Funny Watcom 10.6 works just fine. > > Additional interesting symptom I see is that when I copy files or unzip > files that have lots of files (or perhaps larger one, I'm not sure yet), it > just freezes the system endlessly. I just reboot, I have no patience to > check if this is some 15 minutes (the longest streak) cache issue or it > just crashed with no system or app level handler for it. > > I will provide exact error in a second when I switch between systems to > generate it and add it in another message > > [4] One more thing perhaps you can help to identify, iMac has *HD Audio > *compatible > sound card. There was some software written by some Polish dude in the past > that was extending Judas Player with HD Audio capacity I found. but when I > ran it it effectively discovered HD Audio over PCI but any actual playback > and other elements of true driver implementation are not there. Do you know > anything about working HD Audio software for DOS? > > - > Best, > hollowone > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Thu, Nov 12, 2020 at 11:28 AM TK Chia wrote: > >> Hello Hollowone PL, >> >> > With this I have few starter question as a user: >> > - DOS16/m is a 16bit protected mode extender. Does it mean that FreeDOS >> > runs in 16bit protected mode from the command line or perhaps some >> driver >> > is interfering or rather the iMac I use has hardware that may cause some >> > obvious incompatibilities. >> >> Can you give us more details about the issue(s) you encountered? For >> example, which particular tools were you trying to use? What were the >> error messages? Was FreeDOS running in "really" Real Mode, or in >> Virtual 8086 mode? >> >> (Meanwhile, my wild guess is that the errors were because the iMac is >> not quite compatible with the IBM PC at the lower levels --- especially >> the layout of physical memory and I/O ports. But maybe I am wrong.) >> >> And, I would very much like to know more about how you got FreeDOS >> working on a UEFI machine. I have lately been trying to find >> information on this. :-) >> >> Hello Random Liegh, hello Jose Senna, >> >> >> I'm not sure what DOS16/m is -it sounds like a DPMI server? If so, >> then it provides 32-bit addressing >to dos programs. >> > AFA I remember, DOS/16M is a DOS extender to allow use of DOS in >> protected mode. >> > It predates DPMI specification and is geared towards the 16-bit >> protected mode >> > available in the '286. >> >> I recall there was the DOS/16M DOS extender --- for the 286's 16-bit >> protected mode --- and also DOS/4G --- for the 386's 32-bit protected >> mode --- by Rational Software. >> >> (16M would refer to the 24-bit physical address space supported by the >> 286.)
Re: [Freedos-user] PCI Express Network Adapter Board for FreeDos
Thanks - yes, I thought I would keep and use the smaller installation partition for recovery and future :) upgrades. It's not in the way of anything. I'll look into EtherDFS today. My main computer runs on Windows 10, which is always a challenge with sharing/permission rights due to builtin security. The others all run some type of Linux, which is easy to network. Marv On Thu, Nov 12, 2020 at 8:24 PM Jerome Shidel wrote: > > > On Nov 12, 2020, at 7:02 PM, Marv wrote: > > [...] > > > > I copied everything on the FreeDos 1.3 Live CD over to the 1GB partition > using Windows 2000. Then I disconnected the new drive with Windows 2000 and > made the old 4.3GB drive the master. > > > > Next, I rebooted to the Windows Live CD without installing anything. At > that point, I removed the CD and changed over to the 1GB partition [D:] > with the copy of the Live CD and executed setup.bat, which installed > FreeDos in the empty 3.3GB partition [C:]. > > > > The installation completed and rebooted to the new installation of FreeDos > without any complaints. Needless to say, FreeDos doesn’t recognize the CD > drive or the USB port, but that was no surprise, since I couldn’t use them > for the installation, either. > > > That is very similar to the dual disk and OEM style install I demonstrated > for 1.2. > > Basically, the OEM style version had a complete copy sitting on a > partition. That booted and installed 1.2 to a new partition. The installer > activated that new partition during installation. Subsequent boots went > straight to the users installed partition. However, this also has two > interesting effects. First, it leaves the CD contents on the other > partition and the user can easily install or remove packages. Also, > provides a recovery partition to reinstall the OS. > > > [..] > > > If your networking driver is working, consider trying EtherDFS. It’s works > pretty good for transferring files to/from DOS and a Linux server. > ___ > Freedos-user mailing list > Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user > ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] Possible zoom metting?
> On Nov 13, 2020, at 3:08 AM, Bryan Kilgallin wrote: > > G'day Jerome: > >> Say, 8PM CT on a weekend. > > 1 PM AEDT is fine for me! > >> Probably late morning is best. What is everyones (especially the latest and >> earliest) GMT that wants to attend? > Noon to midnight AEDT. In GMT, that's 1 AM to 1 PM. Yeah, you might have the greatest timezone difference at UTC+11. Ouch. I’m EDT and its 3:15am here now. But, I don’t keep to any sort of schedule. More or less go to bed when I’m tired. Get up when I wake. Sometimes (like today), I got up at 11:30pm. Other days, that might be 10am. > -- > members.iinet.net.au/~kilgallin/ > > > ___ > Freedos-user mailing list > Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] Possible zoom metting?
G'day Jerome: Say, 8PM CT on a weekend. 1 PM AEDT is fine for me! Probably late morning is best. What is everyones (especially the latest and earliest) GMT that wants to attend? Noon to midnight AEDT. In GMT, that's 1 AM to 1 PM. -- members.iinet.net.au/~kilgallin/ ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
