Re: [Freedos-user] cannot boot installation media

[tom ehlert via Freedos-user]

Hallo Herr Davi Ramos via Freedos-user,

am Sonntag, 28. April 2024 um 05:28 schrieben Sie:

> So, as I said in another message, I have a computer where I wish to install
> FreeDOS. It is a *Compaq Presario 427, Intel Pentium N3700, 4GB RAM, SSD
> 240GB, and a 14" screen.*

> Unfortunately, I cannot get it to boot the installation media
> .
> I have tried numerous USB flash drives as well as an SD card.

100 messages later we still don't know what "I cannot get it to boot" exactly 
means, as in

a) the stick is not detected
b) the stick is detected but ignored
c) refuses to boot the freedos strtup files
d) what does the screen look like in your failed boot attempts,
or does it continue to boot from hard disk?

if the stick isn't detected at all it doesn't matter if you put windows, linux 
or freedos 
on the stick or if your BIOS is running in UEFY or LEGACY mode


Tom





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Re: [Freedos-user] cannot boot installation media

[Liam Proven via Freedos-user]

On Sun, 28 Apr 2024 at 16:58, Frantisek Rysanek via Freedos-user
 wrote:
>
> Dear Mr. Ramos,
>
> > - Balena Etcher
> > - Rufus
> > - Untebootin
> > - Win32DiskImager.
>
> interestingly to me, you don't mention the trusty old `dd` ... :-)

Or Ventoy, which is quicker and easier than any of them.

> Have you tried looking for a BIOS update?

I thought the same thing.

> I have, but the HP support website does not respond to the "Presario
> 427" search query. Maybe it would respond to a "product code", if
> that label on the underside of the machine is still readable.

It might be a Presario CQ-60 427.

I found this notice:

«
Narrow your selection:Compaq Presario CQ60-400 Notebook PC series

Compaq Presario CQ60-400 Notebook PC series - Retired ProductsThe
following products have been retired and are no longer supported by
HP. All official HP support content for these products has been
removed from this web site.
»

I agree, though, it's worth a try.

Davi:

• You *must* use legacy boot mode. DOS cannot start on UEFI machines.
• You must use MBR partitioning.
• Try Ventoy, it's easier.

For the filesystem, it can use FAT16 or FAT32, which to boot must be
in a primary partition on the 1st drive.

Yes, Linux will detect it if `os-prober` is enabled in GRUB.


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Re: [Freedos-user] cannot boot installation media

[Frantisek Rysanek via Freedos-user]

Dear Mr. Ramos,

> - Balena Etcher
> - Rufus
> - Untebootin
> - Win32DiskImager.

interestingly to me, you don't mention the trusty old `dd` ... :-)

Have you tried looking for a BIOS update?
I have, but the HP support website does not respond to the "Presario 
427" search query. Maybe it would respond to a "product code", if 
that label on the underside of the machine is still readable.

In the video linked below, there's a motherboard partnumber 
N14JP6-V2, apparently shared with "HP Compaq 420", for which there is 
still some historical support (a BIOS available for download) - hard 
to say if this would fit your laptop or brick it.

The Presario 427 seems relatively modern, but could be an oddball, 
especially if it shipped with Linux. By the time this product was 
released, Presario was a budget line under HP, a decade and a half 
after the merger of Compaq with HP. The 427 might be specific to a 
particular "sales region" on the globe. And, name-brand machines are 
not unknown to have peculiarities in the BIOS, especially if they are 
local oddballs, of which the brand disclaims responsibility on a 
global scale... Hmm. 

Looking at this screen:
https://youtu.be/Ymro4opGIKI?t=119
So... you're saying that the USB stick does not appear on offer?
Mind the line "USB Key Drive BBS Priorities" at the very bottom.
Only in this video, the boot mode is configured to "UEFI only", so 
it's not a good example.
Do you have more than one USB mass storage device plugged in, by any 
chance? :-)

As for booting from USB mass storage: by the time your Presario 
launched, booting from a USB stick had been available in the BIOS for 
well over a decade - now with all the bells and whistles, I'd say.
Apart from USB CD/DVD and Floppy, i.e. speaking only of physical "USB 
hard drives" (USB mass storage in HDD mode), I know of two styles of 
how the medium can be laid out:

A) as a hard drive, i.e. having a legacy BIOS MBR + partition table

B) having just a single filesystem all across the surface, i.e. the 
FS boot sector is in LBA sector 0 (= where the MBR is in var.A).
Also known as "floppy layout" (not to be confused with a native USB 
mass storage floppy). Veteran FreeBSD folks would call this the 
"dangerously dedicated" layout.

Perhaps your BIOS makes a difference between these two variants? :-)
Most modern BIOSes don't.
I recall in Award 6 series BIOS, on some desktop motherboards, there 
was a SETUP option for you to pick what to expect on the hard drives: 
MBR, "floppy" (dangerously dedicated) and "auto" - where Auto was the 
default and would never give me a problem.

Also, in the "partitioned" variant (= A), the partition start/end 
offsets are aligned with some ultra-legacy structure of 
Cylinders/Heads/Sectors. There actually used to be at least three 
schemes in the ancient days (nineties), often called "CHS, LBA and 
Large". (The modern fdisk variants trying to align to 2048 sectors 
per track, rather than 63, is a mere benign deja vu.) However bogus 
these alignment schemes are, on non-fossil ATA/LBA disk drives and 
USB Mass Storage, I still remember an era when BIOSes made a fuss 
about this alignment making sense, i.e. you had to pick and match the 
right one for your BIOS - but that era ended maybe a decade prior to 
the birth of your Presario machine...

I've also seen my "mouseclick-happy" colleagues "write an ISO image 
onto a USB thumb drive", often using Rufus - not sure if Rufus does 
just a verbatim block copy of ISO image onto the USB Mass Storage LBA 
address space, or it dissects the ISO and copies individual 
components onto the USB thumb drive which it duly formats (i.e. if 
Rufus knows enough about the layout of modern Linux distro installers 
to rehash them in this way). My guys next door actually do this with 
Windows installer ISO images too, I believe... might also work owing 
to the UEFI boot sequence, not sure.

One last question/topic maybe:
The BIOS in the video (linked above) appears to have a small USB 
options menu, where you can enable/disable two ports individually.
The machine originally came with Linux.
Do you still have Linux in the box? Or, can you boot some Linux 
installer? Basically some kind of Linux instance that would tell you, 
if it can see your USB thumb drive or not. The one you're trying to 
boot FreeDOS from. Should be visible in dmesg and /proc/partitions. 
What does Linux fdisk or sfdisk tell you about the thumb drive?
Can you boot other operating system installers from the thumb drive?

No ready-made recipe, just my two cents worth...

Frank

> 
> Thank you Bob and @Norby Droid. 
> 
> I am aware of that, I didn't just copy the files to the USB stick. As 
> I was trying multiple methods, I used a variety of programs to 
> generate the half-a-dozen bootable drives that I tried. I used:
> 
> - Balena Etcher
> - Rufus
> - Untebootin
> - Win32DiskImager.
> 
> I'm starting to think there's something wrong with my USB drives. I 
> have a bunch but they're not 

Re: [Freedos-user] cannot boot installation media (test Bodhi Linux over Ventoy)

[Paul Dufresne via Freedos-user]

I realized after post that the link to TinyCore I had given is mark as not 
secure under Firefox. (not distributed over https)
(I don't believe it to be much dangerous) but wanted to give an alternative.
So I tested (on Ventoy USB key): 
https://psychz.dl.sourceforge.net/project/bodhilinux/5.1.0/bodhi-5.1.0-legacy.iso?viasf=1
It is 747 Mo however... and when I boot it, screen get borked, then I see a TPM 
error, then bork again, then
black, then a bad web browser page appears with local help, that works for 
FreeDOS but would say we are
offline on Youtube.

But as it is just to make sure you can boot something... it should do.



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Re: [Freedos-user] cannot boot installation media

[Paul Dufresne via Freedos-user]

I suggest:

https://ventoy.net/en/index.html

(one of the advantage of Ventoy, is that in lower left, it shows if it booted 
in Clasic mode, or in UEFI mode)

Use it to make your USB key "Ventoy"

Try it by copying 
http://www.tinycorelinux.net/15.x/x86/release/TinyCore-current.iso (only 23 Mb) 
onto it.

Now I suggest you stop trying to install with the USB image, and rather copy 
the iso image inside of:



https://www.ibiblio.org/pub/micro/pc-stuff/freedos/files/distributions/1.3/official/FD13-LiveCD.zip



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Re: [Freedos-user] cannot boot installation media

[Omar Yabar via Freedos-user]

Plop (www.plop.at) helps to boot legacy usb, it works in laptops with ancient 
usb ports, maybe works with your setup. The only problem that I found is that 
freedos starts in read only mode.

Yahoo Mail: busca, organiza, toma el control de tu buzón 
 
  El dom., 28 de abr. de 2024 a la(s) 8:07 a. m., Davi Ramos via 
Freedos-user escribió:   
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Re: [Freedos-user] cannot boot installation media

[Davi Ramos via Freedos-user]

So, that computer came with Linux, and it has a GPT partition scheme. Do
you think it would help to convert it to a msdos partition scheme? I mean
in theory it should boot regardless?

On Sun, Apr 28, 2024 at 7:28 AM Eric Auer via Freedos-user <
freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net> wrote:

>
> Hi! Not all USB sticks are enabled for booting. And maybe it is disabled
> in your BIOS setup. The MBR of the stick may matter as well, and whether
> you boot UEFI style (not possible with FreeDOS) or classic style ;-)
>
>
>
>
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Re: [Freedos-user] cannot boot installation media

[Davi Ramos via Freedos-user]

The bios in my machine has a section called "boot override" which works in
the same however, I also used the boot menu outside of the bios setup and
result was the same.

Em dom, 28 de abr de 2024 08:33, tom ehlert via Freedos-user <
freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net> escreveu:

>
> > Eh... I tried every single BIOS setting
>
> at least on my Dell notebook there is no such *setting*.
>
> instead I have to hit F12 while booting, this then sends me to a "select
> boot device",
> where I can tell it to boot from USB
>
> Tom
>
>
>
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Re: [Freedos-user] cannot boot installation media

[tom ehlert via Freedos-user]

> Eh... I tried every single BIOS setting 

at least on my Dell notebook there is no such *setting*.

instead I have to hit F12 while booting, this then sends me to a "select boot 
device",
where I can tell it to boot from USB

Tom



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Re: [Freedos-user] cannot boot installation media

[Norby Droid via Freedos-user]

I found Rufus to be the best option for creating a bootable usb drive for
freeDOS in all my trials.

Booting to usb on any system can be a challenge.
I know on one laptop we have it is a Windows 10 (originally Windows 8) it
absolutely refuses to boot into ANY usb unless we remove the hard drive.

Just to verify, not be annoying, when ya boot up the laptop, ya press the
F10 key (maybe repeatedly) until ya get a menu askin what to boot to.  The
boot my be separate or listed under hard drive depending on the bios.

Select the usb device and see if it boots.  If not do ya get an error
similiar to “no bootable device found”?

On Sun, Apr 28, 2024 at 06:37 Davi Ramos via Freedos-user <
freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net> wrote:

> Eh... I tried every single BIOS setting that might be even slightly
> relevant. I created the USB sticks with the programs which are recommended
> for me to use. I ordered 3 USB sticks of different brands. I devoted 24
> hours to make this work already. If the new sticks don't work, I think
> I'll, unfortunately have install Linux and move on with life :(
>
> On Sun, Apr 28, 2024 at 7:28 AM Eric Auer via Freedos-user <
> freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net> wrote:
>
>>
>> Hi! Not all USB sticks are enabled for booting. And maybe it is disabled
>> in your BIOS setup. The MBR of the stick may matter as well, and whether
>> you boot UEFI style (not possible with FreeDOS) or classic style ;-)
>>
>>
>>
>>
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Re: [Freedos-user] cannot boot installation media

[Davi Ramos via Freedos-user]

Eh... I tried every single BIOS setting that might be even slightly
relevant. I created the USB sticks with the programs which are recommended
for me to use. I ordered 3 USB sticks of different brands. I devoted 24
hours to make this work already. If the new sticks don't work, I think
I'll, unfortunately have install Linux and move on with life :(

On Sun, Apr 28, 2024 at 7:28 AM Eric Auer via Freedos-user <
freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net> wrote:

>
> Hi! Not all USB sticks are enabled for booting. And maybe it is disabled
> in your BIOS setup. The MBR of the stick may matter as well, and whether
> you boot UEFI style (not possible with FreeDOS) or classic style ;-)
>
>
>
>
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Re: [Freedos-user] cannot boot installation media

[Eric Auer via Freedos-user]

Hi! Not all USB sticks are enabled for booting. And maybe it is disabled 
in your BIOS setup. The MBR of the stick may matter as well, and whether 
you boot UEFI style (not possible with FreeDOS) or classic style ;-)





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Re: [Freedos-user] cannot boot installation media

[Davi Ramos via Freedos-user]

Thank you Bob and @Norby Droid .

I am aware of that, I didn't just copy the files to the USB stick. As I was
trying multiple methods, I used a variety of programs to generate the
half-a-dozen bootable drives that I tried. I used:

- Balena Etcher
- Rufus
- Untebootin
- Win32DiskImager.

I'm starting to think there's something wrong with my USB drives. I have a
bunch but they're not exactly new.

@Norby Droid   mentioned floppy images... but I can
see it is very small and I won't have internet on that machine. I tried
flashing the legacy ISO but the tools say it lacks boot capabilities.

On Sun, Apr 28, 2024 at 6:30 AM Bob Pryor via Freedos-user <
freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net> wrote:

> Post ls -l of your usb drive.
> As Jim mentioned, you can not just copy the .img file to a formatted usb.
> You have to burn the image to the drive to make it bootable.
> JP
>
>
> On Sat, Apr 27, 2024 at 11:27 PM Jim Hall via Freedos-user <
> freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net> wrote:
>
>> To confirm, you're trying to boot the USB installer:
>>
>>
>> https://www.ibiblio.org/pub/micro/pc-stuff/freedos/files/distributions/1.3/official/FD13-FullUSB.zip
>>
>>
>>  I assume you unzipped this and wrote the image to the USB flash drive
>> using the right tool, and didn't just use Copy to get the file to the
>> drive? (I'm asking because that's a common mistake.)
>>
>> You will definitely need to use Legacy mode to boot FreeDOS. Legacy
>> provides a BIOS which FreeDOS needs to run.
>>
>> When you booted, did you have the USB flash drive already plugged into
>> the computer? Remember that DOS doesn't understand USB per se, so you can't
>> plug/unplug the USB flash drive after FreeDOS has booted.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Apr 27, 2024, 10:29 PM Davi Ramos via Freedos-user <
>> freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net> wrote:
>>
>>> So, as I said in another message, I have a computer where I wish to
>>> install FreeDOS. It is a *Compaq Presario 427, Intel Pentium N3700, 4GB
>>> RAM, SSD 240GB, and a 14" screen.*
>>>
>>> Unfortunately, I cannot get it to boot the installation media
>>> .
>>> I have tried numerous USB flash drives as well as an SD card. Forcing it to
>>> boot takes me back to the bios screen after a few seconds. When I change
>>> the boot mode to "Legacy", than the flash drive simply disappear. To the
>>> bios, it's like it doesn't exist.
>>>
>>> I'm not sure what the etiquette of sending files to a mailing list is,
>>> so I uploaded the images with all the settings available on my computer's
>>> bios. Maybe that will help. I've tried a bunch of combinations but nothing
>>> seems to work. I was capable of booting into antiX Linux, so it is not as
>>> if the bios won't boot anything.
>>>
>>> These are the images of the bios: https://imgur.com/a/pw8xJBS
>>>
>>> Thanks!
>>> ___
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Re: [Freedos-user] cannot boot installation media

[Bob Pryor via Freedos-user]

Post ls -l of your usb drive.
As Jim mentioned, you can not just copy the .img file to a formatted usb.
You have to burn the image to the drive to make it bootable.
JP


On Sat, Apr 27, 2024 at 11:27 PM Jim Hall via Freedos-user <
freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net> wrote:

> To confirm, you're trying to boot the USB installer:
>
>
> https://www.ibiblio.org/pub/micro/pc-stuff/freedos/files/distributions/1.3/official/FD13-FullUSB.zip
>
>
>  I assume you unzipped this and wrote the image to the USB flash drive
> using the right tool, and didn't just use Copy to get the file to the
> drive? (I'm asking because that's a common mistake.)
>
> You will definitely need to use Legacy mode to boot FreeDOS. Legacy
> provides a BIOS which FreeDOS needs to run.
>
> When you booted, did you have the USB flash drive already plugged into the
> computer? Remember that DOS doesn't understand USB per se, so you can't
> plug/unplug the USB flash drive after FreeDOS has booted.
>
>
>
> On Sat, Apr 27, 2024, 10:29 PM Davi Ramos via Freedos-user <
> freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net> wrote:
>
>> So, as I said in another message, I have a computer where I wish to
>> install FreeDOS. It is a *Compaq Presario 427, Intel Pentium N3700, 4GB
>> RAM, SSD 240GB, and a 14" screen.*
>>
>> Unfortunately, I cannot get it to boot the installation media
>> .
>> I have tried numerous USB flash drives as well as an SD card. Forcing it to
>> boot takes me back to the bios screen after a few seconds. When I change
>> the boot mode to "Legacy", than the flash drive simply disappear. To the
>> bios, it's like it doesn't exist.
>>
>> I'm not sure what the etiquette of sending files to a mailing list is, so
>> I uploaded the images with all the settings available on my computer's
>> bios. Maybe that will help. I've tried a bunch of combinations but nothing
>> seems to work. I was capable of booting into antiX Linux, so it is not as
>> if the bios won't boot anything.
>>
>> These are the images of the bios: https://imgur.com/a/pw8xJBS
>>
>> Thanks!
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Re: [Freedos-user] cannot boot installation media

[Norby Droid via Freedos-user]

On the download page, try gettin the floppy version.  On real hardware ya
may need to use an external drive, or built-in cdrom/drdrom drive if one is
available.  Also ya need to go in your bios and make sure that the usb is
setup as your first boot item.  Find the key for your bot options, i
believe f10 on compaq/hp systems amd pres that during boot to select the
usb device.  By default computers are made to boot to the onboard drive and
ya need to select usb on the boot menu or set up in bios to use it.

On Sat, Apr 27, 2024 at 23:30 Davi Ramos via Freedos-user <
freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net> wrote:

> So, as I said in another message, I have a computer where I wish to
> install FreeDOS. It is a *Compaq Presario 427, Intel Pentium N3700, 4GB
> RAM, SSD 240GB, and a 14" screen.*
>
> Unfortunately, I cannot get it to boot the installation media
> .
> I have tried numerous USB flash drives as well as an SD card. Forcing it to
> boot takes me back to the bios screen after a few seconds. When I change
> the boot mode to "Legacy", than the flash drive simply disappear. To the
> bios, it's like it doesn't exist.
>
> I'm not sure what the etiquette of sending files to a mailing list is, so
> I uploaded the images with all the settings available on my computer's
> bios. Maybe that will help. I've tried a bunch of combinations but nothing
> seems to work. I was capable of booting into antiX Linux, so it is not as
> if the bios won't boot anything.
>
> These are the images of the bios: https://imgur.com/a/pw8xJBS
>
> Thanks!
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Re: [Freedos-user] cannot boot installation media

[Davi Ramos via Freedos-user]

Thanks!

Yes, that is the image I downloaded. I did extract the image from the zip
file (FD13FULL.img). It is plugged in before boot.

On Sun, Apr 28, 2024 at 1:29 AM Jim Hall via Freedos-user <
freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net> wrote:

> To confirm, you're trying to boot the USB installer:
>
>
> https://www.ibiblio.org/pub/micro/pc-stuff/freedos/files/distributions/1.3/official/FD13-FullUSB.zip
>
>
>  I assume you unzipped this and wrote the image to the USB flash drive
> using the right tool, and didn't just use Copy to get the file to the
> drive? (I'm asking because that's a common mistake.)
>
> You will definitely need to use Legacy mode to boot FreeDOS. Legacy
> provides a BIOS which FreeDOS needs to run.
>
> When you booted, did you have the USB flash drive already plugged into the
> computer? Remember that DOS doesn't understand USB per se, so you can't
> plug/unplug the USB flash drive after FreeDOS has booted.
>
>
>
> On Sat, Apr 27, 2024, 10:29 PM Davi Ramos via Freedos-user <
> freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net> wrote:
>
>> So, as I said in another message, I have a computer where I wish to
>> install FreeDOS. It is a *Compaq Presario 427, Intel Pentium N3700, 4GB
>> RAM, SSD 240GB, and a 14" screen.*
>>
>> Unfortunately, I cannot get it to boot the installation media
>> .
>> I have tried numerous USB flash drives as well as an SD card. Forcing it to
>> boot takes me back to the bios screen after a few seconds. When I change
>> the boot mode to "Legacy", than the flash drive simply disappear. To the
>> bios, it's like it doesn't exist.
>>
>> I'm not sure what the etiquette of sending files to a mailing list is, so
>> I uploaded the images with all the settings available on my computer's
>> bios. Maybe that will help. I've tried a bunch of combinations but nothing
>> seems to work. I was capable of booting into antiX Linux, so it is not as
>> if the bios won't boot anything.
>>
>> These are the images of the bios: https://imgur.com/a/pw8xJBS
>>
>> Thanks!
>> ___
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>> Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
>>
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Re: [Freedos-user] cannot boot installation media

[Jim Hall via Freedos-user]

To confirm, you're trying to boot the USB installer:

https://www.ibiblio.org/pub/micro/pc-stuff/freedos/files/distributions/1.3/official/FD13-FullUSB.zip


 I assume you unzipped this and wrote the image to the USB flash drive
using the right tool, and didn't just use Copy to get the file to the
drive? (I'm asking because that's a common mistake.)

You will definitely need to use Legacy mode to boot FreeDOS. Legacy
provides a BIOS which FreeDOS needs to run.

When you booted, did you have the USB flash drive already plugged into the
computer? Remember that DOS doesn't understand USB per se, so you can't
plug/unplug the USB flash drive after FreeDOS has booted.



On Sat, Apr 27, 2024, 10:29 PM Davi Ramos via Freedos-user <
freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net> wrote:

> So, as I said in another message, I have a computer where I wish to
> install FreeDOS. It is a *Compaq Presario 427, Intel Pentium N3700, 4GB
> RAM, SSD 240GB, and a 14" screen.*
>
> Unfortunately, I cannot get it to boot the installation media
> .
> I have tried numerous USB flash drives as well as an SD card. Forcing it to
> boot takes me back to the bios screen after a few seconds. When I change
> the boot mode to "Legacy", than the flash drive simply disappear. To the
> bios, it's like it doesn't exist.
>
> I'm not sure what the etiquette of sending files to a mailing list is, so
> I uploaded the images with all the settings available on my computer's
> bios. Maybe that will help. I've tried a bunch of combinations but nothing
> seems to work. I was capable of booting into antiX Linux, so it is not as
> if the bios won't boot anything.
>
> These are the images of the bios: https://imgur.com/a/pw8xJBS
>
> Thanks!
> ___
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> Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
>
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[Freedos-user] cannot boot installation media

[Davi Ramos via Freedos-user]

So, as I said in another message, I have a computer where I wish to install
FreeDOS. It is a *Compaq Presario 427, Intel Pentium N3700, 4GB RAM, SSD
240GB, and a 14" screen.*

Unfortunately, I cannot get it to boot the installation media
.
I have tried numerous USB flash drives as well as an SD card. Forcing it to
boot takes me back to the bios screen after a few seconds. When I change
the boot mode to "Legacy", than the flash drive simply disappear. To the
bios, it's like it doesn't exist.

I'm not sure what the etiquette of sending files to a mailing list is, so I
uploaded the images with all the settings available on my computer's bios.
Maybe that will help. I've tried a bunch of combinations but nothing seems
to work. I was capable of booting into antiX Linux, so it is not as if the
bios won't boot anything.

These are the images of the bios: https://imgur.com/a/pw8xJBS

Thanks!
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