[Freedos-user] Heads up: DOS ain't dead forum is closing
Here is the link to the announcement: http://www.bttr-software.de/forum/forum_entry.php?id=10488 To me this is a serious problem - losing a piece of the DOS community is bad. Losing the place where a lot of the programmers hang out is even worse. Mike -- Using storage to extend the benefits of virtualization and iSCSI Virtualization increases hardware utilization and delivers a new level of agility. Learn what those decisions are and how to modernize your storage and backup environments for virtualization. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfnl/114/51434361/ ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] Heads up: DOS ain't dead forum is closing
On Tue, 2011-09-13 at 19:00 -0500, Michael B. Brutman wrote: Here is the link to the announcement: http://www.bttr-software.de/forum/forum_entry.php?id=10488 To me this is a serious problem - losing a piece of the DOS community is bad. Losing the place where a lot of the programmers hang out is even worse. Mike Look at it this way, it is extremely hard to support modern hardware in a DOS style environment because DOS allowed application programs to use hardware directly. Jim Hall has said himself that he has limited interest in the GUI end and most people think a Windows 3.11 Workgroups compatible GUI is too much work. DOS is fast, but Linux stripped down properly is also fast. DOS is great for playing old games, and there are some popular applications for it. Thing is, DOS doesn't make sense at all in the multicore era as a primary operating system. DOS was needed when the personal computer wasn't powerful enough to support a more sophisticated operating system. I'd say that Freedos has it's uses, but without active development on a variant that can take advantage of multiple cores and modern hardware, there are probably a dwindling number of uses for it. Without hardware protection and memory protection, Freedos is certainly fast but probably not acceptable to everyone. -- Using storage to extend the benefits of virtualization and iSCSI Virtualization increases hardware utilization and delivers a new level of agility. Learn what those decisions are and how to modernize your storage and backup environments for virtualization. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfnl/114/51434361/ ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] Heads up: DOS ain't dead forum is closing
2011/9/14, Michael C. Robinson plu...@robinson-west.com: [..] I'd say that Freedos has it's uses, but without active development on a variant that can take advantage of multiple cores and modern hardware, there are probably a dwindling number of uses for it. Without hardware protection and memory protection, Freedos is certainly fast but probably not acceptable to everyone. I'd say, that FreeDOS with hardware protection and memory protection no longer would be DOS-clone, and that everyone, who needs advantages of multiple cores and modern hardware - and hardware protection and memory protection as well - has a rich choice of other OS-es freely available, with the requested features already included. -- Z. -- Using storage to extend the benefits of virtualization and iSCSI Virtualization increases hardware utilization and delivers a new level of agility. Learn what those decisions are and how to modernize your storage and backup environments for virtualization. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfnl/114/51434361/ ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] Heads up: DOS ain't dead forum is closing
On Wed, 2011-09-14 at 01:00 +, Zbigniew wrote: 2011/9/14, Michael C. Robinson plu...@robinson-west.com: [..] I'd say that Freedos has it's uses, but without active development on a variant that can take advantage of multiple cores and modern hardware, there are probably a dwindling number of uses for it. Without hardware protection and memory protection, Freedos is certainly fast but probably not acceptable to everyone. I'd say, that FreeDOS with hardware protection and memory protection no longer would be DOS-clone, and that everyone, who needs advantages of multiple cores and modern hardware - and hardware protection and memory protection as well - has a rich choice of other OS-es freely available, with the requested features already included. 32/64 bit dos environments have never been defined. So in essence, a multicore DOS clone that supports modern hardware is possible without cloning anything. Albeit, if you call it DOS, the old DOS applications need to work in it. Originally, DOS provided routines for working with the video card, hard disk, etcetera, but these routines were short sighted and a series of patches from different parties got applied. MS-DOS got messy towards the end. One interesting option on say a quad core system is to have the 32 bit OS partition the memory, the monitor, the hard disk, and the cpu cores so you can have multiple concurrent 16 bit Freedos instances. Since you are running the equivalent of DOSBOX concurrently, modern hardware can emulate older hardware. Now you have a clean means of supporting modern hardware for people using old DOS applications. Want your multi function printer to appear as a standard printer, fax machine, and scanner? No problem. Microsoft never defined a 32/64 bit version of DOS, so there is a great deal of latitude available. One point I will question you on is this, where is the free equivalent of Windows for WorkGroups? There isn't one. A lot of software depends on the Win32 interface prior to Windows NT taking over. If someone could buy Windows for Workgroups from Microsoft and release the source code to it, that would be very helpful. -- Using storage to extend the benefits of virtualization and iSCSI Virtualization increases hardware utilization and delivers a new level of agility. Learn what those decisions are and how to modernize your storage and backup environments for virtualization. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfnl/114/51434361/ ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
[Freedos-user] Usefulness of DOS (Was: Re: Heads up: DOS ain't dead forum is closing
On 9/13/2011 7:10 PM, Michael C. Robinson wrote: Look at it this way, it is extremely hard to support modern hardware in a DOS style environment because DOS allowed application programs to use hardware directly. Jim Hall has said himself that he has limited interest in the GUI end and most people think a Windows 3.11 Workgroups compatible GUI is too much work. DOS is fast, but Linux stripped down properly is also fast. DOS is great for playing old games, and there are some popular applications for it. Thing is, DOS doesn't make sense at all in the multicore era as a primary operating system. DOS was needed when the personal computer wasn't powerful enough to support a more sophisticated operating system. I'd say that Freedos has it's uses, but without active development on a variant that can take advantage of multiple cores and modern hardware, there are probably a dwindling number of uses for it. Without hardware protection and memory protection, Freedos is certainly fast but probably not acceptable to everyone. Good reply, but to the wrong thread .. (I fixed the subject line in this reply.) Personal opinion only - I program on DOS for the challenge of it, and because it runs on those ancient machines I like to collect. There are very few instances where I want to use a general purpose DOS computer for daily living. The lack of hardware support has been brought up in other threads. We're slowly losing our ability to run on native hardware. Emulation of entire machines or just pieces of machines (BIOS) helps slow the rate of change down, but the trend line is not good. It also doesn't make a lot of sense to use a multi-core machine with gigabytes of RAM and terabytes of storage for a single threaded single tasking OS with roots in 8 bit hardware from the 1970s. DOS enthusiasts can choose to remain on older hardware, live in emulation environments, or roll up their sleeves and try to keep it running on modern hardware. But that last option is kind of difficult to justify when Linux is so capable and is more than fast enough. Mike -- Using storage to extend the benefits of virtualization and iSCSI Virtualization increases hardware utilization and delivers a new level of agility. Learn what those decisions are and how to modernize your storage and backup environments for virtualization. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfnl/114/51434361/ ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] Heads up: DOS ain't dead forum is closing
Would be great to keep the forum archive, at least for read-only so people ca nsearch answers to old questions, this is an important knowledge base. El 13/09/2011 07:30 p.m., Michael B. Brutman escribió: Here is the link to the announcement: http://www.bttr-software.de/forum/forum_entry.php?id=10488 To me this is a serious problem - losing a piece of the DOS community is bad. Losing the place where a lot of the programmers hang out is even worse. Mike -- Using storage to extend the benefits of virtualization and iSCSI Virtualization increases hardware utilization and delivers a new level of agility. Learn what those decisions are and how to modernize your storage and backup environments for virtualization. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfnl/114/51434361/ ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user -- -- +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ Marco A. Achury Tel: +58-(212)-6158777 Cel: +58-(414)-3142282 Skype: marcoachury http://www.achury.com.ve -- BlackBerryreg; DevCon Americas, Oct. 18-20, San Francisco, CA Learn about the latest advances in developing for the BlackBerryreg; mobile platform with sessions, labs more. See new tools and technologies. Register for BlackBerryreg; DevCon today! http://p.sf.net/sfu/rim-devcon-copy1 ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] Heads up: DOS ain't dead forum is closing
I emailed Robert off-list to see if I might move it to freedos.org. I'd like to see his forum continue in some way. On Sep 13, 2011 9:53 PM, Marco Achury marcoach...@gmail.com wrote: Would be great to keep the forum archive, at least for read-only so people ca nsearch answers to old questions, this is an important knowledge base. El 13/09/2011 07:30 p.m., Michael B. Brutman escribió: Here is the link to the announcement: http://www.bttr-software.de/forum/forum_entry.php?id=... -- -- +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ Marco A. Achury Tel: +58-(212)-6158777 Cel: +58-(414)-3142282 Skype: marcoachuryhttp://www.achury.com.ve -- BlackBerryreg; DevCon Americas, Oct. 18-20, San Francisco, CA Learn about the latest advances in developing for the BlackBerryreg; mobile platform with sessions, labs more. See new tools and technologies. Register for BlackBerryreg; DevCon today! http://p.sf.net/sfu/rim-devcon-copy1 ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user -- BlackBerryreg; DevCon Americas, Oct. 18-20, San Francisco, CA Learn about the latest advances in developing for the BlackBerryreg; mobile platform with sessions, labs more. See new tools and technologies. Register for BlackBerryreg; DevCon today! http://p.sf.net/sfu/rim-devcon-copy1 ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
