Re: [ft-devel] Force PMingLiU like font do HINTING
The tricky fonts like PMingLiU need unpatented hinting. Those fonts are unusable at all when programmers accidently turns on FT_LOAD_NO_HINTING. So I think freetype should force fonts like those to ignore FT_LOAD_NO_HINTING. This is a fundamental question. My opinion is that shifting of glyph elements using TrueType instructions clearly is (a kind of) hinting. In other words, I don't like to change the current behaviour of FreeType without good reasons. However, it might be helpful if FreeType emits a warning message that the font is probably unusable. Hmm. Opinions, please. Maybe most of you disagree, so please chime in. And detecting of tricky font should be outside of this defines: #if defined( TT_CONFIG_OPTION_UNPATENTED_HINTING) \ !defined( TT_CONFIG_OPTION_BYTECODE_INTERPRETER ) otherwise, the fonts are not detected on my debian box. This is probably fixed already in the CVS: 2008-11-05 Werner Lemberg [EMAIL PROTECTED] * devel/ftoption.h, include/freetype/config/ftoption.h [TT_CONFIG_OPTION_BYTECODE_INTERPRETER]: Undefine TT_CONFIG_OPTION_UNPATENTED_HINTING. This fixes the return value of `FT_Get_TrueType_Engine_Type' (and makes it work as documented). Reported in bug #441638 of bugzilla.novell.com. Please test. Otherwise, please report the vales of those two macros on your box. Werner ___ Freetype-devel mailing list Freetype-devel@nongnu.org http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/freetype-devel
[ft-devel] Does the Freetype support the ligature of Opentype?
Does the Freetype support the ligature of the Opentype ? If not, how can I display the ligature? For example “fi”、”ff” and so on. Thanks very munch! Bigpin ___ Freetype-devel mailing list Freetype-devel@nongnu.org http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/freetype-devel
Re: [ft-devel] Does the Freetype support the ligature of Opentype?
It is dependent with how the ligature is specified. If the ligature is specified by the Adobe Glyph Name and the font resource is PostScript (Type1 or CFF), FreeType2 supports it. If the ligature glyph is specified by OpenType technology, and it is expected that automatic substitution from a serie of coded characters to ligature glyph, it is the role of OpenType rendering systems like ICU, Pango etc. Regards, mpsuzuki On Thu, 4 Dec 2008 17:41:12 +0800 DingLi(丁力) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Does the Freetype support the ligature of the Opentype ? If not, how can I display the ligature? For example fi、ff and so on. Thanks very munch! Bigpin ___ Freetype-devel mailing list Freetype-devel@nongnu.org http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/freetype-devel
Re: [ft-devel] Force PMingLiU like font do HINTING
Hi, I'm not sure if unpatented hinting solves the broken shape of MingLiU completely. I guess it's better than nothing but not fully, and the introduction of the trick of conditional hinting cannot close MingLiU issue. I think MingLiU is a commercial font bundled to Microsoft Windows, and Mozilla can use Microsoft's TrueType rasterizer supporting patented hinting technology. If there is a case that the tricky application of unpatented hinting of FreeType2 to MingLiU, please let me know. Regards, mpsuzuki On Thu, 4 Dec 2008 09:04:18 - Graham Asher [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: FreeType can't normally 'emit warning messages' because it is a library, not an app - it's up to the caller how to deal with errors. A new, well documented, error code that the caller can choose to ignore is the way to go, in my opinion. Graham -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Werner LEMBERG Sent: 04 December 2008 08:06 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: freetype-devel@nongnu.org Subject: Re: [ft-devel] Force PMingLiU like font do HINTING The tricky fonts like PMingLiU need unpatented hinting. Those fonts are unusable at all when programmers accidently turns on FT_LOAD_NO_HINTING. So I think freetype should force fonts like those to ignore FT_LOAD_NO_HINTING. This is a fundamental question. My opinion is that shifting of glyph elements using TrueType instructions clearly is (a kind of) hinting. In other words, I don't like to change the current behaviour of FreeType without good reasons. However, it might be helpful if FreeType emits a warning message that the font is probably unusable. Hmm. Opinions, please. Maybe most of you disagree, so please chime in. And detecting of tricky font should be outside of this defines: #if defined( TT_CONFIG_OPTION_UNPATENTED_HINTING) \ !defined( TT_CONFIG_OPTION_BYTECODE_INTERPRETER ) otherwise, the fonts are not detected on my debian box. This is probably fixed already in the CVS: 2008-11-05 Werner Lemberg [EMAIL PROTECTED] * devel/ftoption.h, include/freetype/config/ftoption.h [TT_CONFIG_OPTION_BYTECODE_INTERPRETER]: Undefine TT_CONFIG_OPTION_UNPATENTED_HINTING. This fixes the return value of `FT_Get_TrueType_Engine_Type' (and makes it work as documented). Reported in bug #441638 of bugzilla.novell.com. Please test. Otherwise, please report the vales of those two macros on your box. Werner ___ Freetype-devel mailing list Freetype-devel@nongnu.org http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/freetype-devel ___ Freetype-devel mailing list Freetype-devel@nongnu.org http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/freetype-devel ___ Freetype-devel mailing list Freetype-devel@nongnu.org http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/freetype-devel
Re: [ft-devel] Force PMingLiU like font do HINTING
FreeType can't normally 'emit warning messages' because it is a library, not an app - it's up to the caller how to deal with errors. A new, well documented, error code that the caller can choose to ignore is the way to go, in my opinion. Sounds good. However, which function should return it? Or shall we add a new API function? Werner ___ Freetype-devel mailing list Freetype-devel@nongnu.org http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/freetype-devel
RE: [ft-devel] Force PMingLiU like font do HINTING
Actually here is a better design: at the point of discovery, set a flag in the FT_Face structure. That way, there is no interference between a non-zero error code and the opportunity for the caller to ignore the problem. Graham -Original Message- From: Werner LEMBERG [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 04 December 2008 10:21 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; freetype-devel@nongnu.org Subject: Re: [ft-devel] Force PMingLiU like font do HINTING FreeType can't normally 'emit warning messages' because it is a library, not an app - it's up to the caller how to deal with errors. A new, well documented, error code that the caller can choose to ignore is the way to go, in my opinion. Sounds good. However, which function should return it? Or shall we add a new API function? Werner ___ Freetype-devel mailing list Freetype-devel@nongnu.org http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/freetype-devel
Re: [ft-devel] Force PMingLiU like font do HINTING
I'm not sure if unpatented hinting solves the broken shape of MingLiU completely. I guess it's better than nothing but not fully, and the introduction of the trick of conditional hinting cannot close MingLiU issue. Mhmm, *theoretically* it should be sufficient. Why do you think it isn't? Werner ___ Freetype-devel mailing list Freetype-devel@nongnu.org http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/freetype-devel
Re: [ft-devel] Force PMingLiU like font do HINTING
On Thu, 04 Dec 2008 11:40:22 +0100 (CET) Werner LEMBERG [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm not sure if unpatented hinting solves the broken shape of MingLiU completely. I guess it's better than nothing but not fully, and the introduction of the trick of conditional hinting cannot close MingLiU issue. Mhmm, *theoretically* it should be sufficient. Why do you think it isn't? I'm sorry, I misunderstood the current situation. When I worked for MingLiU issue in Ghostscript ever (including old FreeType rasterizer), MingLiU had several glyphs (e.g. U+9C02) that their shapes were still broken, although most glyphs are well rasterized (in comparison with no-hinted results). Current FreeType2 rasterizes U+9C02 well. Regards, mpsuzuki ___ Freetype-devel mailing list Freetype-devel@nongnu.org http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/freetype-devel
RE: [ft-devel] Force PMingLiU like font do HINTING
Hello, How is it possible to decide from the font it is unusable with FT_LOAD_NO_HINTING? Thank you, Sergey Tolstov -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Werner LEMBERG Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 12:06 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: freetype-devel@nongnu.org Subject: Re: [ft-devel] Force PMingLiU like font do HINTING The tricky fonts like PMingLiU need unpatented hinting. Those fonts are unusable at all when programmers accidently turns on FT_LOAD_NO_HINTING. So I think freetype should force fonts like those to ignore FT_LOAD_NO_HINTING. This is a fundamental question. My opinion is that shifting of glyph elements using TrueType instructions clearly is (a kind of) hinting. In other words, I don't like to change the current behaviour of FreeType without good reasons. However, it might be helpful if FreeType emits a warning message that the font is probably unusable. Hmm. Opinions, please. Maybe most of you disagree, so please chime in. And detecting of tricky font should be outside of this defines: #if defined( TT_CONFIG_OPTION_UNPATENTED_HINTING) \ !defined( TT_CONFIG_OPTION_BYTECODE_INTERPRETER ) otherwise, the fonts are not detected on my debian box. This is probably fixed already in the CVS: 2008-11-05 Werner Lemberg [EMAIL PROTECTED] * devel/ftoption.h, include/freetype/config/ftoption.h [TT_CONFIG_OPTION_BYTECODE_INTERPRETER]: Undefine TT_CONFIG_OPTION_UNPATENTED_HINTING. This fixes the return value of `FT_Get_TrueType_Engine_Type' (and makes it work as documented). Reported in bug #441638 of bugzilla.novell.com. Please test. Otherwise, please report the vales of those two macros on your box. Werner ___ Freetype-devel mailing list Freetype-devel@nongnu.org http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/freetype-devel ___ Freetype-devel mailing list Freetype-devel@nongnu.org http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/freetype-devel
Re: [ft-devel] Force PMingLiU like font do HINTING
How is it possible to decide from the font it is unusable with FT_LOAD_NO_HINTING? Unfortunately, it isn't. We have a hard-coded list of `tricky' fonts for this purpose. Werner ___ Freetype-devel mailing list Freetype-devel@nongnu.org http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/freetype-devel
Re: [ft-devel] Force PMingLiU like font do HINTING
On 2008-12-04, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I think MingLiU is a commercial font bundled to Microsoft Windows, and Mozilla can use Microsoft's TrueType rasterizer supporting patented hinting technology. If there is a case that the tricky application of unpatented hinting of FreeType2 to MingLiU, please let me know. I don't parse this lines. But I was trying to solve a problem that lib poppler cannot display MingLiU font properly with Cairo backend. https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=15301 poppler forced NO HINTING when open a font face there. In this case, it either has to hardcode a list of 'tricky fonts' inside poppler itself or somehow freetype has to solve the problem for it (or tells poppler hinting is required for some fonts.) So anyone who use freetype or libraries that use freetype (like cairo) will have to be make awared of this problem. I'm not sure how practical this will be. The problem is that most casual freetype user do not aware of these requires hinting fonts, *and they shouldn't*. Then rendering without hinting are useless other than showing how tricky the fonts are. And I'm still seeing PDF files using those fonts often. Without hinting. Moving references are hinting in principle but for these fonts, forced hinting are more practical to me. Since people who know these fonts are in the minority, maybe for the tricky fonts, the default should be forced hinting, unless the user knows what he's doing and switch on a flag to signal a force unhinting_on_tricky_font to show the tricks. ___ Freetype-devel mailing list Freetype-devel@nongnu.org http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/freetype-devel
Re: [ft-devel] Force PMingLiU like font do HINTING
Do those tricky fonts' gasp tables suggest not to use hinting even though they look bad without it? Good question. One old font which I have, mingli.ttf, doesn't have a gasp table at all. Or they look bad when a programmer asks to turn the hinting off ignoring the gasp table suggestion? Such fonts must have hinting activated all the time. Werner ___ Freetype-devel mailing list Freetype-devel@nongnu.org http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/freetype-devel
Re: [ft-devel] Force PMingLiU like font do HINTING
So anyone who use freetype or libraries that use freetype (like cairo) will have to be make awared of this problem. I'm not sure how practical this will be. Graham's suggestion of introducing a flag in FT_Face sounds good. And I'm still seeing PDF files using those fonts often. Without hinting. Why is there no hinting? Werner ___ Freetype-devel mailing list Freetype-devel@nongnu.org http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/freetype-devel
Re: [ft-devel] Force PMingLiU like font do HINTING
I feel it is not right to allow such a low-level API as freetype to override programmer request for the hinting type unless we have FT_LOAD_NO_HINTING FT_LOAD_NO_HINTING_AND_I_REALLY_MEAN_THAT Hmm. This would be a change in the API which I won't implement. But see Graham's suggestion. The publicly available list of tricky fonts with recommended hinting setting (may be even per glyph index for some) would be nice to have. So that a higher level API could benefit. The list isn't `publicly available'. However, I invite you to contribute parsing routines and API functions which can make it configurable. Werner ___ Freetype-devel mailing list Freetype-devel@nongnu.org http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/freetype-devel
Re: [ft-devel] Force PMingLiU like font do HINTING
On 2008-12-04, Werner LEMBERG [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So anyone who use freetype or libraries that use freetype (like cairo) will have to be make awared of this problem. I'm not sure how practical this will be. Graham's suggestion of introducing a flag in FT_Face sounds good. If I understand his sugguestion correctly, the user always has to check the FT_FACE flag for the tricky fonts when he turns on NO_HINTING. Therefore, the user has to know that there are some Chinese fonts which are tricky with hinting. In practics, most of the time, when a user turns on NO_HINTING, he's not intend to make the tricky fonts illegible. Therefore in most situation, the user expectation are broken because they don't expect that there exist such kind of fonts. No hinting on tricky fonts only serve a specific purpose: shows that the fonts are broken without hinting. Only program like ftview need to force real no hinting to display raw rendering result of the fonts. This is why I suggest default to force HINTING on tricky fonts but allow expert users to get complete NO_HINTING. ___ Freetype-devel mailing list Freetype-devel@nongnu.org http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/freetype-devel