Re: Bad Brits!

2000-05-03 Thread Martin Cosgrave
Title: Spying on Europe



Of course you do realise that under the proposed 
new Terrorism laws, that hosting a list carrying these sorts of messages (and 
all the other regularly posted conspiracy stuff) might be construed as 
threatening to the state and I could be classed as a terrorist and 
jailed...
 
But I imagine Tony's site (http://www.bilderberg.org) would be up for 
the chop first :-)
 
Tell ya what Tone, when me en you is in jail we is 
getting a cigarette consortium sorted, I? Innit.
 
l8r
--Martin CosgraveAppdev Ltd - http://appdev.co.uk0117 902 3143

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  happy667 
  
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  Sent: Wednesday, May 03, 2000 8:01 
  PM
  Subject: Bad Brits!
  http://www.economist.com/4mKTd8wG/editorial/freeforall/current/br9568.html
  
  

  
  
  
  


    
  

  
  



  
  
BRITAIN
  


  
  Those 
  perfidious Anglo spies 
  


  

  Allegations that 
Britain helps America and others spy on its European allies 
have annoyed some across the 
  Channel
  

  

  


   
  

   
  Search archive  

   
  Links

  


  
“THIS is an 
Anglo-Saxon Protestant conspiracy. So much for Britain’s 
commitment to European solidarity; its real union is with 
America.” So complained Jean-Claude Martinez, a French 
member of the European Parliament after a debate on 
eavesdropping by Britain and other English-speaking 
countries. Is electronic snooping in danger of driving a 
further wedge between Britain and its European 
allies? 
The spy system 
Mr Martinez decried, dubbed Echelon, has long been a target 
of conspiracy theorists and campaigners for civil liberties. 
They claim that western spies routinely gather and share 
private information by monitoring electronic communication 
and satellites. In particular, the Anglo-Saxons (American, 
Canada, New Zealand and Australia, as well as Britain) are 
said to listen to Europeans by using equipment set up during 
the cold war. 
A recent 
report for the European Parliament by a British journalist, 
Duncan Campbell, detailed how easily communications can be 
monitored. He described various sites in Britain (some used 
by American security services) where information is gathered 
and processed. This report, along with earlier ones and 
allegations in the French press, spurred demands from more 
than 170 MEPs for a further inquiry: it 
is “a very dangerous attack on the sovereignty of member 
states”, complained one speaker. The MEPs will get a temporary committee of 
inquiry and Portugal, the current president of the European 
Union, plans a discussion of industrial espionage for an 
informal meeting of the Council of Foreign Ministers next 
month. 
There are two 
broad accusations against Britain and its English-speaking 
allies: that they illicitly monitor communications among 
European governments and businesses, and share that 
information between themselves; and that such monitoring is 
done for commercial gain. 
The first 
claim is more plausible. Spying on allies is common 
practice, as is collaboration with other countries’ spies. 
Interception of communications is common too. But British 
intelligence co-operation with the United States is 
unusually close. One former foreign secretary objected that 
too much sensitive information about the EU 
was passed to America. David (now Lord) Owen, foreign 
secretary between 1977 and 1979, told a closed session of 
  

Bad Brits!

2000-05-03 Thread happy667


http://www.economist.com/4mKTd8wG/editorial/freeforall/current/br9568.html

Title: Spying on Europe







  






   
BRITAIN






Those perfidious Anglo spies






Allegations that Britain helps America and others spy on its European allies have annoyed some across the Channel











 


 Search archive 
  


 Links







“THIS is an Anglo-Saxon Protestant conspiracy. So much for Britain’s commitment to European solidarity; its real union is with America.” So complained Jean-Claude Martinez, a French member of the European Parliament after a debate on eavesdropping by Britain and other English-speaking countries. Is electronic snooping in danger of driving a further wedge between Britain and its European allies?


The spy system Mr Martinez decried, dubbed Echelon, has long been a target of conspiracy theorists and campaigners for civil liberties. They claim that western spies routinely gather and share private information by monitoring electronic communication and satellites. In particular, the Anglo-Saxons (American, Canada, New Zealand and Australia, as well as Britain) are said to listen to Europeans by using equipment set up during the cold war.


A recent report for the European Parliament by a British journalist, Duncan Campbell, detailed how easily communications can be monitored. He described various sites in Britain (some used by American security services) where information is gathered and processed. This report, along with earlier ones and allegations in the French press, spurred demands from more than 170 MEPs for a further inquiry: it is “a very dangerous attack on the sovereignty of member states”, complained one speaker. The MEPs will get a temporary committee of inquiry and Portugal, the current president of the European Union, plans a discussion of industrial espionage for an informal meeting of the Council of Foreign Ministers next month.


There are two broad accusations against Britain and its English-speaking allies: that they illicitly monitor communications among European governments and businesses, and share that information between themselves; and that such monitoring is done for commercial gain.


The first claim is more plausible. Spying on allies is common practice, as is collaboration with other countries’ spies. Interception of communications is common too. But British intelligence co-operation with the United States is unusually close. One former foreign secretary objected that too much sensitive information about the EU was passed to America. David (now Lord) Owen, foreign secretary between 1977 and 1979, told a closed session of the Franks Committee (on the Falklands war) in 1983 that tapping was routine. 







  Quite honestly I was, and I remain to this day, very concerned about the fact that we are listening to our European allies. I did not like this and I tried to change it. I lost that battle. It is one of the very few battles that I lost with my prime minister. I thought it was unethical...  




In particular Mr Owen emphasised that Britain routinely sent information it had gathered to the American government:







  ...it struck me as wrong in our new relationship with Europe that we should be tapping into the European Community and passing some of that stuff on to the United States. I wanted to have an arrangement whereby anything that dealt with negotiations within the European Community, which after all can influence the United States in trade negotiations, should not be passed on. I wanted to have a ring fence around it. There was terrific resistance to this, unbelievable resistance, from everyone...  




Mr Owen was speaking almost 20 years ago. But the intervening years and the end of the cold war do not appear to have changed the nature of the Anglo-American intelligence relationship. James Woolsey, a former director of the CIA in the Clinton administration, describes the “Anglo-Saxon” relationship as “very close...although no one is a complete friend in the intelligence world, with Britain and America it is as close as it gets.” And, while America has intelligence sharing arrangements with “dozens of countries around the world”, that with Britain is particularly tight. A former under-secretary of state for the navy, Mr Woolsey even suggests that America’s navy has had closer ties with Britain’s navy than with other parts of the American armed forces. 


The second accusation, that the Echelon surveillance system is now used for commercial gain, is particularly controversial and harder to prove. A report compiled last October for the European Parliament (which preceded the Campbell report) concluded that “there is wide-ranging evidence” that governments “utilise communications intelligence to provide commercial advantages to companies”. It suggested that satellites used by telephone companies are monitored by sites in Britain, America, Canada, Australia and New Zealand, while cables under sea and on land, as well