Re: [FRIAM] The World Turned Upside Down (and what to do about it)

[Eric Smith]

There may be collaborators who would be eager to help in such a project:

http://kingjamesprogramming.tumblr.com/

Eric

> On Sep 15, 2017, at 8:49 PM, Marcus Daniels  wrote:
> 
> I wonder if a Trump-like candidate bot could be built using a genetic program 
> and some natural language processing code.   One could follow Breitbart or 
> similar outlets to form a corpus of phrases.  Then the GP would tweak the 
> diagram and words in the sentence and post it to Twitter.   It would keep the 
> sentences that got Likes and throw away the sentences that did not, and 
> continue its evolution.   That's the whole world view as far as I can tell.
> 
> Marcus
> From: Friam  on behalf of Roger Critchlow 
> 
> Sent: Friday, September 15, 2017 6:09:06 PM
> To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] The World Turned Upside Down (and what to do about it)
>  
> I guess the point is that politicians are guaranteed to try these lies out, 
> to the limit that their consciences (assuming there is one) allow, so you 
> have to keep shouting back at them that they lie, not only is it a lie, it's 
> a horrible lie which hurts these people this way and you should be ashamed 
> for saying it.
> 
> In the Peircian ecology of political ideas, the electorate (or someone) must 
> act as the conscience of politics, the politician flails around trying to 
> move the world away from the horrible things that already exist, and the 
> electorate tries to keep us from moving to places where even more horrible 
> things live.
> 
> But the further point I'm seeing is that you can't just stand there saying:  
> "Liar".  You have to call out the lie and explain why the lie is a horrible 
> lie, one that will shame everyone who allows it to be repeated and acted 
> upon, and that it should never have been spoken in the first place, and 
> should never be spoken again.
> 
> But most of Trump's lies are too puerile to deserve that kind of response, 
> they deserve extended ridicule rather than righteous condemnation.
> 
> -- rec --
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Fri, Sep 15, 2017 at 2:04 PM, Marcus Daniels  wrote:
> Roger writes:
> 
> "The lies that bind political coalitions together, the art of the possible 
> fiction which might be brought to horrible life, ... "
> 
> It is ugly, but it is irresponsible to pretend it could be otherwise.
> 
> Marcus
> From: Friam  on behalf of Roger Critchlow 
> 
> Sent: Friday, September 15, 2017 11:15:50 AM
> To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] The World Turned Upside Down (and what to do about it)
>  
> The lies that bind political coalitions together, the art of the possible 
> fiction which might be brought to horrible life, ...
> 
> -- rec --
> 
> On Fri, Sep 15, 2017 at 12:41 PM, gⅼеɳ ☣  wrote:
> But did the Mexican Repatriation also include things like rape, burning 
> villages, and indiscriminant execution?  I can imagine it did, but would 
> rather not believe it.
> 
> It's still so jarring to me, given the cultural appropriation of Buddhism in 
> Western developed countries, to hear phrases like "nationalist Buddhists" and 
> such.  With Israel, I grew up with the contradiction of the Jews I knew, who 
> were entirely kind and intellectual, versus those confiscating land from 
> Arabs.  So, I've been exposed to that dissonance all my life.  But my only 
> exposure to Buddhism as a kid was through my CCD teacher, who probably had a 
> *very* stilted understanding.
> 
> On 09/14/2017 06:31 PM, Steven A Smith wrote:
> > Right here in River City (well, mostly California, but throughout the US) 
> > the 1930's "Mexican Repatriation Act" deported on the order of 1-2M US 
> > Citizens because of their ethnicity (along with a smaller number of 
> > non-Citizens more recently immigrated from Mexico), qualifying for our 
> > modern definition of "ethnic cleansing".
> 
> --
> ☣ gⅼеɳ
> 
> 
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
> to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove
> 
> 
> 
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
> to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove
> 
> 
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
> to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove

Re: [FRIAM] The World Turned Upside Down (and what to do about it)

[Marcus Daniels]

Roger writes:


"In the Peircian ecology of political ideas, the electorate (or someone) must 
act as the conscience of politics, the politician flails around trying to move 
the world away from the horrible things that already exist, and the electorate 
tries to keep us from moving to places where even more horrible things live."


I wonder if a Trump-like candidate bot could be built using a genetic program 
and some natural language processing code.   One could follow Breitbart or 
similar outlets to form a corpus of phrases.  Then the GP would tweak the 
diagram and words in the sentence and post it to Twitter.   It would keep the 
sentences that got Likes and throw away the sentences that did not, and 
continue its evolution.   That's the whole world view as far as I can tell.


Marcus


From: Friam  on behalf of Roger Critchlow 

Sent: Friday, September 15, 2017 6:09:06 PM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] The World Turned Upside Down (and what to do about it)

I guess the point is that politicians are guaranteed to try these lies out, to 
the limit that their consciences (assuming there is one) allow, so you have to 
keep shouting back at them that they lie, not only is it a lie, it's a horrible 
lie which hurts these people this way and you should be ashamed for saying it.

In the Peircian ecology of political ideas, the electorate (or someone) must 
act as the conscience of politics, the politician flails around trying to move 
the world away from the horrible things that already exist, and the electorate 
tries to keep us from moving to places where even more horrible things live.

But the further point I'm seeing is that you can't just stand there saying:  
"Liar".  You have to call out the lie and explain why the lie is a horrible 
lie, one that will shame everyone who allows it to be repeated and acted upon, 
and that it should never have been spoken in the first place, and should never 
be spoken again.

But most of Trump's lies are too puerile to deserve that kind of response, they 
deserve extended ridicule rather than righteous condemnation.

-- rec --




On Fri, Sep 15, 2017 at 2:04 PM, Marcus Daniels 
> wrote:

Roger writes:


"The lies that bind political coalitions together, the art of the possible 
fiction which might be brought to horrible life, ... "


It is ugly, but it is irresponsible to pretend it could be otherwise.


Marcus


From: Friam > on 
behalf of Roger Critchlow >
Sent: Friday, September 15, 2017 11:15:50 AM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] The World Turned Upside Down (and what to do about it)

The lies that bind political coalitions together, the art of the possible 
fiction which might be brought to horrible life, ...

-- rec --

On Fri, Sep 15, 2017 at 12:41 PM, gⅼеɳ ☣ 
> wrote:
But did the Mexican Repatriation also include things like rape, burning 
villages, and indiscriminant execution?  I can imagine it did, but would rather 
not believe it.

It's still so jarring to me, given the cultural appropriation of Buddhism in 
Western developed countries, to hear phrases like "nationalist Buddhists" and 
such.  With Israel, I grew up with the contradiction of the Jews I knew, who 
were entirely kind and intellectual, versus those confiscating land from Arabs. 
 So, I've been exposed to that dissonance all my life.  But my only exposure to 
Buddhism as a kid was through my CCD teacher, who probably had a *very* stilted 
understanding.

On 09/14/2017 06:31 PM, Steven A Smith wrote:
> Right here in River City (well, mostly California, but throughout the US) the 
> 1930's "Mexican Repatriation Act" deported on the order of 1-2M US Citizens 
> because of their ethnicity (along with a smaller number of non-Citizens more 
> recently immigrated from Mexico), qualifying for our modern definition of 
> "ethnic cleansing".

--
☣ gⅼеɳ


FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove



FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove


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Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
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Re: [FRIAM] The World Turned Upside Down (and what to do about it)

[Roger Critchlow]

I guess the point is that politicians are guaranteed to try these lies out,
to the limit that their consciences (assuming there is one) allow, so you
have to keep shouting back at them that they lie, not only is it a lie,
it's a horrible lie which hurts these people this way and you should be
ashamed for saying it.

In the Peircian ecology of political ideas, the electorate (or someone)
must act as the conscience of politics, the politician flails around trying
to move the world away from the horrible things that already exist, and the
electorate tries to keep us from moving to places where even more horrible
things live.

But the further point I'm seeing is that you can't just stand there
saying:  "Liar".  You have to call out the lie and explain why the lie is a
horrible lie, one that will shame everyone who allows it to be repeated and
acted upon, and that it should never have been spoken in the first place,
and should never be spoken again.

But most of Trump's lies are too puerile to deserve that kind of response,
they deserve extended ridicule rather than righteous condemnation.

-- rec --




On Fri, Sep 15, 2017 at 2:04 PM, Marcus Daniels 
wrote:

> Roger writes:
>
>
> "The lies that bind political coalitions together, the art of the
> possible fiction which might be brought to horrible life, ... "
>
>
> It is ugly, but it is irresponsible to pretend it could be otherwise.
>
>
> Marcus
> --
> *From:* Friam  on behalf of Roger Critchlow <
> r...@elf.org>
> *Sent:* Friday, September 15, 2017 11:15:50 AM
> *To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
> *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] The World Turned Upside Down (and what to do about
> it)
>
> The lies that bind political coalitions together, the art of the possible
> fiction which might be brought to horrible life, ...
>
> -- rec --
>
> On Fri, Sep 15, 2017 at 12:41 PM, gⅼеɳ ☣  wrote:
>
>> But did the Mexican Repatriation also include things like rape, burning
>> villages, and indiscriminant execution?  I can imagine it did, but would
>> rather not believe it.
>>
>> It's still so jarring to me, given the cultural appropriation of Buddhism
>> in Western developed countries, to hear phrases like "nationalist
>> Buddhists" and such.  With Israel, I grew up with the contradiction of the
>> Jews I knew, who were entirely kind and intellectual, versus those
>> confiscating land from Arabs.  So, I've been exposed to that dissonance all
>> my life.  But my only exposure to Buddhism as a kid was through my CCD
>> teacher, who probably had a *very* stilted understanding.
>>
>> On 09/14/2017 06:31 PM, Steven A Smith wrote:
>> > Right here in River City (well, mostly California, but throughout the
>> US) the 1930's "Mexican Repatriation Act" deported on the order of 1-2M US
>> Citizens because of their ethnicity (along with a smaller number of
>> non-Citizens more recently immigrated from Mexico), qualifying for our
>> modern definition of "ethnic cleansing".
>>
>> --
>> ☣ gⅼеɳ
>>
>> 
>> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
>> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
>> to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
>> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove
>>
>
>
> 
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
> to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove
>

FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove

Re: [FRIAM] The World Turned Upside Down (and what to do about it)

[Marcus Daniels]

Roger writes:


"The lies that bind political coalitions together, the art of the possible 
fiction which might be brought to horrible life, ... "


It is ugly, but it is irresponsible to pretend it could be otherwise.


Marcus


From: Friam  on behalf of Roger Critchlow 

Sent: Friday, September 15, 2017 11:15:50 AM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] The World Turned Upside Down (and what to do about it)

The lies that bind political coalitions together, the art of the possible 
fiction which might be brought to horrible life, ...

-- rec --

On Fri, Sep 15, 2017 at 12:41 PM, gⅼеɳ ☣ 
> wrote:
But did the Mexican Repatriation also include things like rape, burning 
villages, and indiscriminant execution?  I can imagine it did, but would rather 
not believe it.

It's still so jarring to me, given the cultural appropriation of Buddhism in 
Western developed countries, to hear phrases like "nationalist Buddhists" and 
such.  With Israel, I grew up with the contradiction of the Jews I knew, who 
were entirely kind and intellectual, versus those confiscating land from Arabs. 
 So, I've been exposed to that dissonance all my life.  But my only exposure to 
Buddhism as a kid was through my CCD teacher, who probably had a *very* stilted 
understanding.

On 09/14/2017 06:31 PM, Steven A Smith wrote:
> Right here in River City (well, mostly California, but throughout the US) the 
> 1930's "Mexican Repatriation Act" deported on the order of 1-2M US Citizens 
> because of their ethnicity (along with a smaller number of non-Citizens more 
> recently immigrated from Mexico), qualifying for our modern definition of 
> "ethnic cleansing".

--
☣ gⅼеɳ


FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove


FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove

Re: [FRIAM] The World Turned Upside Down (and what to do about it)

[Roger Critchlow]

The lies that bind political coalitions together, the art of the possible
fiction which might be brought to horrible life, ...

-- rec --

On Fri, Sep 15, 2017 at 12:41 PM, gⅼеɳ ☣  wrote:

> But did the Mexican Repatriation also include things like rape, burning
> villages, and indiscriminant execution?  I can imagine it did, but would
> rather not believe it.
>
> It's still so jarring to me, given the cultural appropriation of Buddhism
> in Western developed countries, to hear phrases like "nationalist
> Buddhists" and such.  With Israel, I grew up with the contradiction of the
> Jews I knew, who were entirely kind and intellectual, versus those
> confiscating land from Arabs.  So, I've been exposed to that dissonance all
> my life.  But my only exposure to Buddhism as a kid was through my CCD
> teacher, who probably had a *very* stilted understanding.
>
> On 09/14/2017 06:31 PM, Steven A Smith wrote:
> > Right here in River City (well, mostly California, but throughout the
> US) the 1930's "Mexican Repatriation Act" deported on the order of 1-2M US
> Citizens because of their ethnicity (along with a smaller number of
> non-Citizens more recently immigrated from Mexico), qualifying for our
> modern definition of "ethnic cleansing".
>
> --
> ☣ gⅼеɳ
>
> 
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
> to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove
>

FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove

Re: [FRIAM] The World Turned Upside Down (and what to do about it)

[gⅼеɳ ☣]

But did the Mexican Repatriation also include things like rape, burning 
villages, and indiscriminant execution?  I can imagine it did, but would rather 
not believe it.

It's still so jarring to me, given the cultural appropriation of Buddhism in 
Western developed countries, to hear phrases like "nationalist Buddhists" and 
such.  With Israel, I grew up with the contradiction of the Jews I knew, who 
were entirely kind and intellectual, versus those confiscating land from Arabs. 
 So, I've been exposed to that dissonance all my life.  But my only exposure to 
Buddhism as a kid was through my CCD teacher, who probably had a *very* stilted 
understanding.

On 09/14/2017 06:31 PM, Steven A Smith wrote:
> Right here in River City (well, mostly California, but throughout the US) the 
> 1930's "Mexican Repatriation Act" deported on the order of 1-2M US Citizens 
> because of their ethnicity (along with a smaller number of non-Citizens more 
> recently immigrated from Mexico), qualifying for our modern definition of 
> "ethnic cleansing". 

-- 
☣ gⅼеɳ


FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove