subject:"\[FRIAM\] Book publishing advice needed"

Yes, "physics envy" is VERY far off. 1) As I tried to claim before, physicists 
don't speak with authority in that way. The way these people speak is very 
different from the way physicists speak. 2) While Firestein knows some physics, 
my graphic artist friend has NO idea what quantum mechanics actually is, 
probably doesn't even know classical mechanics. So, even if they're envious of 
something, it's neither physicists' ways of being, nor the physics that 
physicists do.

But I'd go even further that they're not *envious* of anything. What they want 
is something, anything, to justify their rhetoric, which is basically that 
there's stuff we don't know (explicitly in Firestein's book on "Ignorance" and 
implicitly in my friend's claim that a good attitude mysteriously helps one 
recover from cancer). That's not envy. It's justificationism.

Now, when Nick and Frank talk about psychologists having physics envy (neither 
Firestein nor my friend fit that bill), *envy* does seem to come close. But I'd 
argue the same way with (1) and (2) above. They're not envious of physicists or 
physics. But they might be envious of ready access to plentiful DATA. And you 
can get that from some types of biology. In any case, that's not what I was 
talking about when I complained about everyone pulling woowoo quantum mechanics 
out of their hat everytime they want to say something about stuff we don't know.

Many people accused Penrose of the same thing, conflating quantum theory with 
consciousness merely BECAUSE they're both mysterious. And I sincerely doubt 
Penrose has "physics envy".

On 7/7/20 7:00 PM, Eric Charles wrote:
> "Envy" might not be the exact right word, but it isn't far off, is it? There 
> is an inferiority complex of some sort, and a wish that you had whatever 
> thing those specific other people /seem /to have. 

-- 
☣ uǝlƃ

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Re: [FRIAM] Book publishing advice needed

2020-07-07 Thread Eric Charles

At some point around 2007, some lawyer in Clark Universities IP department
got a big muckety muck (I forget if it was Chief Counsel or the Provost, or
what) to send out a really overzealous email, informing us that the
university policy required profitable ideas that we came up with during our
work hours to be reported to the IP office and agreements reached regarding
what to do with them. It stupidly broad, and did not include any notion of
the ideas having been developed or even being feasible. *Any **potentially*
profitable idea had to be reported! Now!

In fact, the email implied that the rubes in the faculty could not be
trusted to judge what was potentially profitable, so any idea at all should
be reported, to allow the smart and savvy people in the IP office could
evaluate potential profitability.

As one would expect, this became the butt of several lunchtime
conversations. At some point a few of us sent lists to the IP office, after
having sat around the table coming up with as many
inane-but-potentially-profitable ideas as we could. "A math textbook that
worked through osmosis", "toilet paper rolls that pulled from both sides",
"chicken, but it tasted less like chicken", "chicken, but it tasted more
like chicken", "chicken, but with the nutrition profile of green beans",
"green beans, but actually chicken", "a brand of eyebrow trimmers marketed
specifically to academics", "a grab-bar to help people get up from the
toilet, but it was better than the one on the second floor of Dana
Commons",  etc.

I don't think any of us ever heard back from them, and the email was not
repeated in subsequent years.

On Tue, Jul 7, 2020 at 9:39 AM Frank Wimberly  wrote:

> Carnegie Mellon's intellectual property policy was described in a ~50 page
> summary  document when I worked there.  But it was apparently more
> complicated than that.  I had to testify in Federal Court regarding
> software that had been developed by chemistry professor and Nobel Laureate
> John People and his students.  A company named Gaussian Inc was selling the
> software and one of my tasks was to keep the version made available by the
> Pittsburgh Supercomputing Center current. PSC is jointly operated  by CMU
> and Pitt and it makes supercomputers and software available to
> researchers.  The simplified understanding was that any artifact created by
> CMU researchers could be sold commercially but that the University could
> not be charged for its use.  When I asked for Gaussian 94 (a new version
> was released every two years) the company stalled for weeks and eventually
> said we had to buy it.  To shorten the story, after months of litigation
> and just before the judge was to issue his ruling, an out-of-court
> settlement was reached which was confidential.  IP is a complex area.
>
> ---
> Frank C. Wimberly
> 140 Calle Ojo Feliz,
> Santa Fe, NM 87505
>
> 505 670-9918
> Santa Fe, NM
>
> On Tue, Jul 7, 2020, 7:05 AM ∄ uǝlƃ  wrote:
>
>> Continuing down the open access thread and the ethics of Schwartz' JSTOR
>> theft, libgen, and sci-hub:
>>
>> Retractions and controversies over coronavirus research show that the
>> process of science is working as it should
>>
>> https://theconversation.com/retractions-and-controversies-over-coronavirus-research-show-that-the-process-of-science-is-working-as-it-should-140326
>>
>> From the article: "The database provided by the tiny company Surgisphere
>> – whose website is no longer accessible – was unavailable during peer
>> review of the paper or to scientists and the public afterwards, preventing
>> anyone from evaluating the data."
>>
>> The point I made in response to EricS's worry that emphasizing paper
>> consumption over book consumption was that the paper publishing process is
>> more agile and, I argue, can stick more closely to the referent(s). With
>> that agility comes some of the criticisms of Science™ (as well-expressed by
>> Dave recently). To my mind, those criticisms target the wrong thing.
>> They're failures of us to understand that there is no unified scientific
>> method [†] and, along with *openness* comes an understanding that the whole
>> process is messy and intensely social. I think it was Randy Burge who used
>> to repeat a mantra like "Not being right, but getting it right." That
>> journals (as well as newspapers) don't *require* open source and open data
>> at the outset boggles me.
>>
>> Coincidentally, this popped up in my queue the other day:
>>
>> Let's talk about why people are moving left
>> https://youtu.be/2g0qUxgwHmo
>>
>> Ed's story about authors seeing very little compensation for their work,
>> Nick's plea for a way to harvest the minds of non-academics, the ethics of
>> Schwartz' theft, are all *old* issues targeting the same problems with late
>> stage capitalism now being targeted by BLM and antifa. Perhaps the
>> incentive and motive systems are the causes; and outcomes like libgen are
>> the symptoms.
>>
>>
>> [†] I'm currently (slowly, as usual)

Re: [FRIAM] Book publishing advice needed

2020-07-07 Thread Eric Charles

Glen said:  "Both Firestein and my friend are using physics to lend some
credibility by proxy to their rhetoric."

So... what is the word we use for the assumption that physics will lend
credibility-by-proxy. If you are looking for credibility-by-proxy you must
think whatever you are saying needs a boost, or at least feel like your
audience will need it to get a boost before they will take you as seriously
as you want to be taken. But even then, why not try to get
credibility-by-proxy from marine biology, or medieval literary criticism,
or food science? Why physics? There is some assumption that physics is the
type of thing to reach for if you are looking for credibility-by-proxy, and
a worry that you won't be good enough without it. "Envy" might not be the
exact right word, but it isn't far off, is it? There is an inferiority
complex of some sort, and a wish that you had whatever thing those specific
other people *seem *to have.

---
Eric P. Charles, Ph.D.
Department of Justice - Personnel Psychologist
American University - Adjunct Instructor



On Tue, Jul 7, 2020 at 3:41 PM ∄ uǝlƃ  wrote:

> Hm. In these cases, where Firestein talks about quantum mechanics as an
> exemplar of how we navigate ignorance and my cancer survivor friend as a
> defense mechanism for avoiding nihilism or depression or whatnot, there is
> no "I wish I were a physicist". Firestein is a credentialed neuroscientist
> and my friend is a graphic artist. Neither seem to feel inadequate in their
> disciplines or wish their disciplines were more like physics. So, I really
> doubt it's envy. What it sounds more like is captured well by "There are
> more things in heaven and earth ...". Both Firestein and my friend are
> using physics to lend some credibility by proxy to their rhetoric. I just
> can't warp my way to thinking it's physics envy.
>
> Even in this tangent, the clinicians I've worked with don't disregard
> experimentalists or vice versa. It's simply a practical acceptance. Where
> large N experiments can be run, GREAT! Where they can't, we use expert
> experience and heuristics. [†] In fact, gathering "raw", private, data from
> patients is a common practice and the toolkits used to translate between
> contexts is diverse. (We had a meeting about just such a thing yesterday.)
>
> So, I remain unconvinced. It's not physics envy. It's appeal to authority.
>
>
> [†] Now, if you instead argued that by "physics envy", you simply mean
> "we'd like to have more data, but we don't YET", then *maybe*. But why call
> that "physics envy"? That would be a misleading moniker for having to work
> with less data than you'd otherwise prefer.
>
> On 7/7/20 11:53 AM, Frank Wimberly wrote:
> > Clinicians (therapists, counselors, psychiatrists, etc) use data that is
> based on private, highly sensitive personal information, it's very
> difficult and often impossible to apply the methods of experimental
> psychologists to that data.  The clinicians do write papers but by the
> experimenters standards the sample sizes are so tiny as to merit dismissal
> of the results.
> >
> > So, imagine you are a clinician.  Every case you have ever seen of a
> person with paranoid delusions involves significant grandiosity.  (Why
> would the CIA be focusing on you, Marvin) Your colleagues have observed the
> same with few exceptions.  Some clinician writes an article which mentions
> this.  Experimental psychologists read it and say you need to do a double
> blind study to assert that.  You realize that's impossible so you learn to
> disregard experimentalists just as they disregard you.  You both think, "I
> wish I were a physicist but I hated math".
>
>
> --
> ☣ uǝlƃ
>
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> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6  bit.ly/virtualfriam
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>
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Re: [FRIAM] Book publishing advice needed

2020-07-07 Thread Joe Spinden

A mathematician I once knew repeated a second hand quote from a 
well-known mathematician: "In mathematics, even to be second rate you 
have to be pretty smart."

On 7/7/20 2:20 PM, Gary Schiltz wrote:
I think there is envy within and among most professions. When I was at 
Bios Group, I felt there was, if not envy, then competition for 
recognition, between the scientists and software engineers. Being a 
software guy myself, I can only see it from that side of the fence; I 
can't speak to how the scientists saw things. I always felt a bit of 
an inferiority complex, as well as some hero worship toward the 
scientists. Part of this probably has to do with the supply and demand 
ratios for complexity scientists and software engineers. Geeks have 
always been in demand, and so it is easier to be somewhat mediocre and 
still be gainfully employed and well compensated. I suspect that 
scientists, particular theoretical physicists and mathematicians, have 
to really stand out in their field to be in demand.

On Tue, Jul 7, 2020 at 2:41 PM ∄ uǝlƃ > wrote:

Hm. In these cases, where Firestein talks about quantum mechanics
as an exemplar of how we navigate ignorance and my cancer survivor
friend as a defense mechanism for avoiding nihilism or depression
or whatnot, there is no "I wish I were a physicist". Firestein is
a credentialed neuroscientist and my friend is a graphic artist.
Neither seem to feel inadequate in their disciplines or wish their
disciplines were more like physics. So, I really doubt it's envy.
What it sounds more like is captured well by "There are more
things in heaven and earth ...". Both Firestein and my friend are
using physics to lend some credibility by proxy to their rhetoric.
I just can't warp my way to thinking it's physics envy.

Even in this tangent, the clinicians I've worked with don't
disregard experimentalists or vice versa. It's simply a practical
acceptance. Where large N experiments can be run, GREAT! Where
they can't, we use expert experience and heuristics. [†] In fact,
gathering "raw", private, data from patients is a common practice
and the toolkits used to translate between contexts is diverse.
(We had a meeting about just such a thing yesterday.)

So, I remain unconvinced. It's not physics envy. It's appeal to
authority.

[†] Now, if you instead argued that by "physics envy", you simply
mean "we'd like to have more data, but we don't YET", then
*maybe*. But why call that "physics envy"? That would be a
misleading moniker for having to work with less data than you'd
otherwise prefer.

On 7/7/20 11:53 AM, Frank Wimberly wrote:
> Clinicians (therapists, counselors, psychiatrists, etc) use data
that is based on private, highly sensitive personal information,
it's very difficult and often impossible to apply the methods of
experimental psychologists to that data.  The clinicians do write
papers but by the experimenters standards the sample sizes are so
tiny as to merit dismissal of the results.
>
> So, imagine you are a clinician.  Every case you have ever seen
of a person with paranoid delusions involves significant
grandiosity.  (Why would the CIA be focusing on you, Marvin) Your
colleagues have observed the same with few exceptions.  Some
clinician writes an article which mentions this.  Experimental
psychologists read it and say you need to do a double blind study
to assert that.  You realize that's impossible so you learn to
disregard experimentalists just as they disregard you.  You both
think, "I wish I were a physicist but I hated math".

-- 
☣ uǝlƃ

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--
Joe

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Re: [FRIAM] Book publishing advice needed

Yeah, I agree. Personally, I'm very susceptible to imposter syndrome. I'm 
constantly worried about whether I belong somewhere or what I'm doing is 
useful. I think of it less as an inferiority complex and more of a general 
anxiety about whether or not I could be doing something more productive or if 
the team could be more productive (e.g. with someone else other than me). This 
is why I never have to turn down a project.  I often convince them that they 
don't want me. They want one of my friends, who actually knows stuff about 
things. 8^D

On 7/7/20 1:20 PM, Gary Schiltz wrote:
> I think there is envy within and among most professions. When I was at Bios 
> Group, I felt there was, if not envy, then competition for recognition, 
> between the scientists and software engineers. Being a software guy myself, I 
> can only see it from that side of the fence; I can't speak to how the 
> scientists saw things. I always felt a bit of an inferiority complex, as well 
> as some hero worship toward the scientists. Part of this probably has to do 
> with the supply and demand ratios for complexity scientists and software 
> engineers. Geeks have always been in demand, and so it is easier to be 
> somewhat mediocre and still be gainfully employed and well compensated. I 
> suspect that scientists, particular theoretical physicists and 
> mathematicians, have to really stand out in their field to be in demand. 

-- 
☣ uǝlƃ

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Re: [FRIAM] Book publishing advice needed

2020-07-07 Thread Gary Schiltz

I think there is envy within and among most professions. When I was at Bios
Group, I felt there was, if not envy, then competition for recognition,
between the scientists and software engineers. Being a software guy myself,
I can only see it from that side of the fence; I can't speak to how the
scientists saw things. I always felt a bit of an inferiority complex, as
well as some hero worship toward the scientists. Part of this probably has
to do with the supply and demand ratios for complexity scientists and
software engineers. Geeks have always been in demand, and so it is easier
to be somewhat mediocre and still be gainfully employed and well
compensated. I suspect that scientists, particular theoretical physicists
and mathematicians, have to really stand out in their field to be in
demand.

On Tue, Jul 7, 2020 at 2:41 PM ∄ uǝlƃ  wrote:

> Hm. In these cases, where Firestein talks about quantum mechanics as an
> exemplar of how we navigate ignorance and my cancer survivor friend as a
> defense mechanism for avoiding nihilism or depression or whatnot, there is
> no "I wish I were a physicist". Firestein is a credentialed neuroscientist
> and my friend is a graphic artist. Neither seem to feel inadequate in their
> disciplines or wish their disciplines were more like physics. So, I really
> doubt it's envy. What it sounds more like is captured well by "There are
> more things in heaven and earth ...". Both Firestein and my friend are
> using physics to lend some credibility by proxy to their rhetoric. I just
> can't warp my way to thinking it's physics envy.
>
> Even in this tangent, the clinicians I've worked with don't disregard
> experimentalists or vice versa. It's simply a practical acceptance. Where
> large N experiments can be run, GREAT! Where they can't, we use expert
> experience and heuristics. [†] In fact, gathering "raw", private, data from
> patients is a common practice and the toolkits used to translate between
> contexts is diverse. (We had a meeting about just such a thing yesterday.)
>
> So, I remain unconvinced. It's not physics envy. It's appeal to authority.
>
>
> [†] Now, if you instead argued that by "physics envy", you simply mean
> "we'd like to have more data, but we don't YET", then *maybe*. But why call
> that "physics envy"? That would be a misleading moniker for having to work
> with less data than you'd otherwise prefer.
>
> On 7/7/20 11:53 AM, Frank Wimberly wrote:
> > Clinicians (therapists, counselors, psychiatrists, etc) use data that is
> based on private, highly sensitive personal information, it's very
> difficult and often impossible to apply the methods of experimental
> psychologists to that data.  The clinicians do write papers but by the
> experimenters standards the sample sizes are so tiny as to merit dismissal
> of the results.
> >
> > So, imagine you are a clinician.  Every case you have ever seen of a
> person with paranoid delusions involves significant grandiosity.  (Why
> would the CIA be focusing on you, Marvin) Your colleagues have observed the
> same with few exceptions.  Some clinician writes an article which mentions
> this.  Experimental psychologists read it and say you need to do a double
> blind study to assert that.  You realize that's impossible so you learn to
> disregard experimentalists just as they disregard you.  You both think, "I
> wish I were a physicist but I hated math".
>
>
> --
> ☣ uǝlƃ
>
> -  . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-.  . .-. .
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6  bit.ly/virtualfriam
> un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
> archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/
> FRIAM-COMIC 
> http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/
>
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Re: [FRIAM] Book publishing advice needed

...don't disregard experimentalists or vice versa. It's simply a practical
acceptance...

I'll accept that characterization.

Frank

On Tue, Jul 7, 2020 at 1:41 PM ∄ uǝlƃ  wrote:

> Hm. In these cases, where Firestein talks about quantum mechanics as an
> exemplar of how we navigate ignorance and my cancer survivor friend as a
> defense mechanism for avoiding nihilism or depression or whatnot, there is
> no "I wish I were a physicist". Firestein is a credentialed neuroscientist
> and my friend is a graphic artist. Neither seem to feel inadequate in their
> disciplines or wish their disciplines were more like physics. So, I really
> doubt it's envy. What it sounds more like is captured well by "There are
> more things in heaven and earth ...". Both Firestein and my friend are
> using physics to lend some credibility by proxy to their rhetoric. I just
> can't warp my way to thinking it's physics envy.
>
> Even in this tangent, the clinicians I've worked with don't disregard
> experimentalists or vice versa. It's simply a practical acceptance. Where
> large N experiments can be run, GREAT! Where they can't, we use expert
> experience and heuristics. [†] In fact, gathering "raw", private, data from
> patients is a common practice and the toolkits used to translate between
> contexts is diverse. (We had a meeting about just such a thing yesterday.)
>
> So, I remain unconvinced. It's not physics envy. It's appeal to authority.
>
>
> [†] Now, if you instead argued that by "physics envy", you simply mean
> "we'd like to have more data, but we don't YET", then *maybe*. But why call
> that "physics envy"? That would be a misleading moniker for having to work
> with less data than you'd otherwise prefer.
>
> On 7/7/20 11:53 AM, Frank Wimberly wrote:
> > Clinicians (therapists, counselors, psychiatrists, etc) use data that is
> based on private, highly sensitive personal information, it's very
> difficult and often impossible to apply the methods of experimental
> psychologists to that data.  The clinicians do write papers but by the
> experimenters standards the sample sizes are so tiny as to merit dismissal
> of the results.
> >
> > So, imagine you are a clinician.  Every case you have ever seen of a
> person with paranoid delusions involves significant grandiosity.  (Why
> would the CIA be focusing on you, Marvin) Your colleagues have observed the
> same with few exceptions.  Some clinician writes an article which mentions
> this.  Experimental psychologists read it and say you need to do a double
> blind study to assert that.  You realize that's impossible so you learn to
> disregard experimentalists just as they disregard you.  You both think, "I
> wish I were a physicist but I hated math".
>
>
> --
> ☣ uǝlƃ
>
> -  . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-.  . .-. .
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6  bit.ly/virtualfriam
> un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
> archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/
> FRIAM-COMIC 
> http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/
>


-- 
Frank Wimberly
140 Calle Ojo Feliz
Santa Fe, NM 87505
505 670-9918
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Re: [FRIAM] Book publishing advice needed

Hm. In these cases, where Firestein talks about quantum mechanics as an 
exemplar of how we navigate ignorance and my cancer survivor friend as a 
defense mechanism for avoiding nihilism or depression or whatnot, there is no 
"I wish I were a physicist". Firestein is a credentialed neuroscientist and my 
friend is a graphic artist. Neither seem to feel inadequate in their 
disciplines or wish their disciplines were more like physics. So, I really 
doubt it's envy. What it sounds more like is captured well by "There are more 
things in heaven and earth ...". Both Firestein and my friend are using physics 
to lend some credibility by proxy to their rhetoric. I just can't warp my way 
to thinking it's physics envy.

Even in this tangent, the clinicians I've worked with don't disregard 
experimentalists or vice versa. It's simply a practical acceptance. Where large 
N experiments can be run, GREAT! Where they can't, we use expert experience and 
heuristics. [†] In fact, gathering "raw", private, data from patients is a 
common practice and the toolkits used to translate between contexts is diverse. 
(We had a meeting about just such a thing yesterday.)

So, I remain unconvinced. It's not physics envy. It's appeal to authority.

[†] Now, if you instead argued that by "physics envy", you simply mean "we'd 
like to have more data, but we don't YET", then *maybe*. But why call that 
"physics envy"? That would be a misleading moniker for having to work with less 
data than you'd otherwise prefer.

On 7/7/20 11:53 AM, Frank Wimberly wrote:
> Clinicians (therapists, counselors, psychiatrists, etc) use data that is 
> based on private, highly sensitive personal information, it's very difficult 
> and often impossible to apply the methods of experimental psychologists to 
> that data.  The clinicians do write papers but by the experimenters standards 
> the sample sizes are so tiny as to merit dismissal of the results.  
> 
> So, imagine you are a clinician.  Every case you have ever seen of a person 
> with paranoid delusions involves significant grandiosity.  (Why would the CIA 
> be focusing on you, Marvin) Your colleagues have observed the same with few 
> exceptions.  Some clinician writes an article which mentions this.  
> Experimental psychologists read it and say you need to do a double blind 
> study to assert that.  You realize that's impossible so you learn to 
> disregard experimentalists just as they disregard you.  You both think, "I 
> wish I were a physicist but I hated math".

-- 
☣ uǝlƃ

-  . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-.  . .-. .
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Re: [FRIAM] Book publishing advice needed

Clinicians (therapists, counselors, psychiatrists, etc) use data that is
based on private, highly sensitive personal information, it's very
difficult and often impossible to apply the methods of experimental
psychologists to that data.  The clinicians do write papers but by the
experimenters standards the sample sizes are so tiny as to merit dismissal
of the results.

So, imagine you are a clinician.  Every case you have ever seen of a person
with paranoid delusions involves significant grandiosity.  (Why would the
CIA be focusing on you, Marvin) Your colleagues have observed the same with
few exceptions.  Some clinician writes an article which mentions this.
Experimental psychologists read it and say you need to do a double blind
study to assert that.  You realize that's impossible so you learn to
disregard experimentalists just as they disregard you.  You both think, "I
wish I were a physicist but I hated math".

Take it for what it's worth.

Frank


---
Frank C. Wimberly
140 Calle Ojo Feliz,
Santa Fe, NM 87505

505 670-9918
Santa Fe, NM

On Tue, Jul 7, 2020, 12:16 PM ∄ uǝlƃ  wrote:

> Ah! OK. So, it's not physics envy, it's authority envy. There's still
> something off about what (I think) you're saying, though. It strikes me
> that NONE of the physicists I've ever talked to speak with the kind of
> pseudo-authority the psychologists I've talked to speak with. I.e. in my
> (limited) experience, psychologists, psychiatrists, and therapists in
> general, speak with authority. Physicists don't talk that way (again, in my
> experience). They don't say, for a lame example, "Classical mechanics is
> false." They use hedge words like "in some circumstances" or "to some
> approximation" or whatever. And given that the physcicists don't *assert*
> the authority those you're claiming are "envious" of that authority, it
> *still* feels to me like fallacious reasoning, rather than an actual envy.
>
> It's totally reasonable to envy something someone actually has, like a
> muscle car or something. But can you really envy something another person
> does NOT have ... and, indeed, denies having if pressed?
>
> They're really just trying to trick you into believing whatever nonsense
> they spout. They're not really envious of the work physicists do. I'm not
> confident that their fallacy is appeal to authority, though. I think it's
> something else ... appeal to *mystery* or somesuch. I need to review the
> fallacies to see if there's one that fits better than appeal to authority.
>
> On 7/7/20 10:49 AM, thompnicks...@gmail.com wrote:
> > That physicists have such authority is what psychologists have envied.
>
> --
> ☣ uǝlƃ
>
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Re: [FRIAM] Book publishing advice needed

Ah! OK. So, it's not physics envy, it's authority envy. There's still something 
off about what (I think) you're saying, though. It strikes me that NONE of the 
physicists I've ever talked to speak with the kind of pseudo-authority the 
psychologists I've talked to speak with. I.e. in my (limited) experience, 
psychologists, psychiatrists, and therapists in general, speak with authority. 
Physicists don't talk that way (again, in my experience). They don't say, for a 
lame example, "Classical mechanics is false." They use hedge words like "in 
some circumstances" or "to some approximation" or whatever. And given that the 
physcicists don't *assert* the authority those you're claiming are "envious" of 
that authority, it *still* feels to me like fallacious reasoning, rather than 
an actual envy. 

It's totally reasonable to envy something someone actually has, like a muscle 
car or something. But can you really envy something another person does NOT 
have ... and, indeed, denies having if pressed?

They're really just trying to trick you into believing whatever nonsense they 
spout. They're not really envious of the work physicists do. I'm not confident 
that their fallacy is appeal to authority, though. I think it's something else 
... appeal to *mystery* or somesuch. I need to review the fallacies to see if 
there's one that fits better than appeal to authority. 

On 7/7/20 10:49 AM, thompnicks...@gmail.com wrote:
> That physicists have such authority is what psychologists have envied.  

-- 
☣ uǝlƃ

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Re: [FRIAM] Book publishing advice needed

Well, if psychologists didn't disagree with each other so much people might
respect their authority more.

---
Frank C. Wimberly
140 Calle Ojo Feliz,
Santa Fe, NM 87505

505 670-9918
Santa Fe, NM

On Tue, Jul 7, 2020, 11:49 AM  wrote:

> Glen,
>
> That physicists have such authority is what psychologists have envied.
>
> Nick
>
>
>
> Nicholas Thompson
> Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology
> Clark University
> thompnicks...@gmail.com
> https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Friam  On Behalf Of ? u?l?
> Sent: Tuesday, July 7, 2020 11:01 AM
> To: FriAM 
> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Book publishing advice needed
>
> Is it, though? I think it's an appeal to authority rather than an envy.
> When my cancer survivor friend confided in me that they'd survived cancer
> too, and that they strongly believed a "good attitude" and "hopeful
> thoughts" were critical to survival, then goes on to cite The Tao of
> Physics [Fritjof Capra] as justification for their belief, I don't see
> *envy*. I see them desperately, pareidoliacally thrashing around for *any*
> justification they can get their hands on.  To me it feels like any
> justification for such beliefs is somehow better than just admitting we're
> LUCKY.
>
> So, it's not physics envy, even in Firestein's case in "Ignorance". It's
> simply fallacious reasoning ... for my cancer surviving friend a defense
> mechanism ... for Firestein a prominent *hook* with boatloads of
> authoritative cargo.
>
> On 7/7/20 9:20 AM, thompnicks...@gmail.com wrote:
> > Physics envy.  A terrible, awful, terminal disease of the mind.
>
> --
> ☣ uǝlƃ
>
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>
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Re: [FRIAM] Book publishing advice needed

2020-07-07 Thread thompnickson2

Glen,

That physicists have such authority is what psychologists have envied.  

Nick 



Nicholas Thompson
Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology
Clark University
thompnicks...@gmail.com
https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/
 


-Original Message-
From: Friam  On Behalf Of ? u?l?
Sent: Tuesday, July 7, 2020 11:01 AM
To: FriAM 
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Book publishing advice needed

Is it, though? I think it's an appeal to authority rather than an envy. When my 
cancer survivor friend confided in me that they'd survived cancer too, and that 
they strongly believed a "good attitude" and "hopeful thoughts" were critical 
to survival, then goes on to cite The Tao of Physics [Fritjof Capra] as 
justification for their belief, I don't see *envy*. I see them desperately, 
pareidoliacally thrashing around for *any* justification they can get their 
hands on.  To me it feels like any justification for such beliefs is somehow 
better than just admitting we're LUCKY.

So, it's not physics envy, even in Firestein's case in "Ignorance". It's simply 
fallacious reasoning ... for my cancer surviving friend a defense mechanism ... 
for Firestein a prominent *hook* with boatloads of authoritative cargo.

On 7/7/20 9:20 AM, thompnicks...@gmail.com wrote:
> Physics envy.  A terrible, awful, terminal disease of the mind.

--
☣ uǝlƃ

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Re: [FRIAM] Book publishing advice needed

Is it, though? I think it's an appeal to authority rather than an envy. When my 
cancer survivor friend confided in me that they'd survived cancer too, and that 
they strongly believed a "good attitude" and "hopeful thoughts" were critical 
to survival, then goes on to cite The Tao of Physics [Fritjof Capra] as 
justification for their belief, I don't see *envy*. I see them desperately, 
pareidoliacally thrashing around for *any* justification they can get their 
hands on.  To me it feels like any justification for such beliefs is somehow 
better than just admitting we're LUCKY.

So, it's not physics envy, even in Firestein's case in "Ignorance". It's simply 
fallacious reasoning ... for my cancer surviving friend a defense mechanism ... 
for Firestein a prominent *hook* with boatloads of authoritative cargo.

On 7/7/20 9:20 AM, thompnicks...@gmail.com wrote:
> Physics envy.  A terrible, awful, terminal disease of the mind. 

-- 
☣ uǝlƃ

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Re: [FRIAM] Book publishing advice needed

That's horrifying. I hope you got some closure. I have no idea how common such 
things are. Not the same, but similarly, less than 2 years ago, one of Renee's 
(male) coworkers (with whom we'd been relative friends up to then) pinned [†] 
her in the hallway of the hospital to yell at her about some anesthetic 
protocol he thought she'd messed up (but was actually his own fault according 
to others involved). The disrespect was shocking. I was more outraged than she 
was, though. Apparently she's experienced this sort of belittling on a regular 
basis for decades ... something I'd never really looked out for before. Thanks 
to people who *tell* their stories, I'm starting to see things I'd never seen.

[†] By which I mean put his arm up on the wall above her, leaned in way too 
close, etc. ... physical intimidation.

On 7/7/20 8:50 AM, Leigh Fanning wrote:
> 
> My version of UNM incompetence was the patent agent dropped a critical 
> deadline that permanently prevented 
> patentability of one of my research outcomes that had merit.  
> 
> But that wasn't enough.  He followed that up by unbuttoning his shirt and 
> unzipping his pants in a meeting 
> which only became apparent when he went to stand up and couldn't hide behind 
> the conference
> table; then there was the email telling me how great I looked that night and 
> the mega melt down screaming
> at me over the phone after he learned I reported the incident.  UNM STC told 
> me I had to continue to work
> with him despite these actions and despite the fact that he didn't know WTF 
> he was doing in the first place.
> 
> All of this could have been prevented.  I had emailed STC to say something 
> was wrong fairly early on.  
> Receiving 30 emails in 24 hours was a red flag.  They ignored this and acted 
> like it was my fault.
> I had a lot of stress with these things.  

-- 
☣ uǝlƃ

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Re: [FRIAM] Book publishing advice needed

2020-07-07 Thread thompnickson2

Glen wrote;

I put the book down in disgust when he started yapping about quantum mechanics. 
Why does everyone always do that even if they admit upfront they don't know 
what they're talking about? [sigh]

Physics envy.  A terrible, awful, terminal disease of the mind.  

n

Nicholas Thompson

Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology

Clark University

thompnicks...@gmail.com

https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/

-Original Message-
From: Friam  On Behalf Of ? u?l?
Sent: Tuesday, July 7, 2020 7:05 AM
To: FriAM 
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Book publishing advice needed

Continuing down the open access thread and the ethics of Schwartz' JSTOR theft, 
libgen, and sci-hub:

Retractions and controversies over coronavirus research show that the process 
of science is working as it should

<https://theconversation.com/retractions-and-controversies-over-coronavirus-research-show-that-the-process-of-science-is-working-as-it-should-140326>

https://theconversation.com/retractions-and-controversies-over-coronavirus-research-show-that-the-process-of-science-is-working-as-it-should-140326

>From the article: "The database provided by the tiny company Surgisphere – 
>whose website is no longer accessible – was unavailable during peer review of 
>the paper or to scientists and the public afterwards, preventing anyone from 
>evaluating the data."

The point I made in response to EricS's worry that emphasizing paper 
consumption over book consumption was that the paper publishing process is more 
agile and, I argue, can stick more closely to the referent(s). With that 
agility comes some of the criticisms of Science™ (as well-expressed by Dave 
recently). To my mind, those criticisms target the wrong thing. They're 
failures of us to understand that there is no unified scientific method [†] 
and, along with *openness* comes an understanding that the whole process is 
messy and intensely social. I think it was Randy Burge who used to repeat a 
mantra like "Not being right, but getting it right." That journals (as well as 
newspapers) don't *require* open source and open data at the outset boggles me.

Coincidentally, this popped up in my queue the other day:

Let's talk about why people are moving left

 <https://youtu.be/2g0qUxgwHmo> https://youtu.be/2g0qUxgwHmo

Ed's story about authors seeing very little compensation for their work, Nick's 
plea for a way to harvest the minds of non-academics, the ethics of Schwartz' 
theft, are all *old* issues targeting the same problems with late stage 
capitalism now being targeted by BLM and antifa. Perhaps the incentive and 
motive systems are the causes; and outcomes like libgen are the symptoms.

[†] I'm currently (slowly, as usual) reading a nice little book called 
"Ignorance"  <https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/13574594-ignorance> 
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/13574594-ignorance that makes this point 
nicely. I put the book down in disgust when he started yapping about quantum 
mechanics. Why does everyone always do that even if they admit upfront they 
don't know what they're talking about? [sigh] Anyway, I got over it and have 
started again.

On 7/7/20 4:59 AM, Edward Angel wrote:

> I have to negotiate the terms with the university, I can, however, make 
> anything I develop open source. It took a while for universities to agree 
> that that that decision is totally up to the faculty member.

--

☣ uǝlƃ

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Re: [FRIAM] Book publishing advice needed

2020-07-07 Thread Leigh Fanning



My version of UNM incompetence was the patent agent dropped a critical deadline 
that permanently prevented 
patentability of one of my research outcomes that had merit.  

But that wasn't enough.  He followed that up by unbuttoning his shirt and 
unzipping his pants in a meeting 
which only became apparent when he went to stand up and couldn't hide behind 
the conference
table; then there was the email telling me how great I looked that night and 
the mega melt down screaming
at me over the phone after he learned I reported the incident.  UNM STC told me 
I had to continue to work
with him despite these actions and despite the fact that he didn't know WTF he 
was doing in the first place.

All of this could have been prevented.  I had emailed STC to say something was 
wrong fairly early on.  
Receiving 30 emails in 24 hours was a red flag.  They ignored this and acted 
like it was my fault.
I had a lot of stress with these things.  

Leigh Fanning

On 07 Jul 2020 at 08:46 AM, Edward Angel related
> At least at CMU there are people competent enough to make decisions about the 
> merits of faculty work. At one point at UNM, the intellectual property person 
> at UNM declared that any software we produced, even for a class, had to be 
> turned over to him and he would make the decision as to whether or not it had 
> commercial potential before we could put it on our websites.The guy knew 
> nothing about software and was also pretty incompetent as a IP lawyer. 
> 
> Long ago I was an expert witness on a case in which the Feds went after 
> someone who had manipulated the thermostats in a Sandia building.They were 
> using pretty draconian computer hacking laws to go after him. We were able to 
> convince the prosectors to drop the case at least partly on the argument that 
> almost everything has an embedded processor so their argument would convert 
> thousands of actions into computer crimes.
> 
> Ed 
> ___
> 
> Ed Angel
> 
> Founding Director, Art, Research, Technology and Science Laboratory (ARTS Lab)
> Professor Emeritus of Computer Science, University of New Mexico
> 
> 1017 Sierra Pinon
> Santa Fe, NM 87501
> 505-984-0136 (home)   an...@cs.unm.edu 
> 
> 505-453-4944 (cell)   http://www.cs.unm.edu/~angel 
> 
> 
> > On Jul 7, 2020, at 7:39 AM, Frank Wimberly  wrote:
> > 
> > Carnegie Mellon's intellectual property policy was described in a ~50 page 
> > summary  document when I worked there.  But it was apparently more 
> > complicated than that.  I had to testify in Federal Court regarding 
> > software that had been developed by chemistry professor and Nobel Laureate 
> > John People and his students.  A company named Gaussian Inc was selling the 
> > software and one of my tasks was to keep the version made available by the 
> > Pittsburgh Supercomputing Center current. PSC is jointly operated  by CMU 
> > and Pitt and it makes supercomputers and software available to researchers. 
> >  The simplified understanding was that any artifact created by CMU 
> > researchers could be sold commercially but that the University could not be 
> > charged for its use.  When I asked for Gaussian 94 (a new version was 
> > released every two years) the company stalled for weeks and eventually said 
> > we had to buy it.  To shorten the story, after months of litigation and 
> > just before the judge was to issue his ruling, an out-of-court settlement 
> was reached which was confidential.  IP is a complex area.
> > 
> > ---
> > Frank C. Wimberly
> > 140 Calle Ojo Feliz, 
> > Santa Fe, NM 87505
> > 
> > 505 670-9918
> > Santa Fe, NM
> > 
> > On Tue, Jul 7, 2020, 7:05 AM ??? u??l??  > > wrote:
> > Continuing down the open access thread and the ethics of Schwartz' JSTOR 
> > theft, libgen, and sci-hub:
> > 
> > Retractions and controversies over coronavirus research show that the 
> > process of science is working as it should
> > https://theconversation.com/retractions-and-controversies-over-coronavirus-research-show-that-the-process-of-science-is-working-as-it-should-140326
> >  
> > 
> > 
> > >From the article: "The database provided by the tiny company Surgisphere 
> > >??? whose website is no longer accessible ??? was unavailable during peer 
> > >review of the paper or to scientists and the public afterwards, preventing 
> > >anyone from evaluating the data."
> > 
> > The point I made in response to EricS's worry that emphasizing paper 
> > consumption over book consumption was that the paper publishing process is 
> > more agile and, I argue, can stick more closely to the referent(s). With 
> > that agility comes some of the criticisms of Science??? (as well-expressed 
> > by Dave recently). To my mind, those criticisms

Re: [FRIAM] Book publishing advice needed

2020-07-07 Thread Edward Angel

At least at CMU there are people competent enough to make decisions about the 
merits of faculty work. At one point at UNM, the intellectual property person 
at UNM declared that any software we produced, even for a class, had to be 
turned over to him and he would make the decision as to whether or not it had 
commercial potential before we could put it on our websites.The guy knew 
nothing about software and was also pretty incompetent as a IP lawyer. 

Long ago I was an expert witness on a case in which the Feds went after someone 
who had manipulated the thermostats in a Sandia building.They were using pretty 
draconian computer hacking laws to go after him. We were able to convince the 
prosectors to drop the case at least partly on the argument that almost 
everything has an embedded processor so their argument would convert thousands 
of actions into computer crimes.

Ed 
___

Ed Angel

Founding Director, Art, Research, Technology and Science Laboratory (ARTS Lab)
Professor Emeritus of Computer Science, University of New Mexico

1017 Sierra Pinon
Santa Fe, NM 87501
505-984-0136 (home) an...@cs.unm.edu 

505-453-4944 (cell) http://www.cs.unm.edu/~angel 


> On Jul 7, 2020, at 7:39 AM, Frank Wimberly  wrote:
> 
> Carnegie Mellon's intellectual property policy was described in a ~50 page 
> summary  document when I worked there.  But it was apparently more 
> complicated than that.  I had to testify in Federal Court regarding software 
> that had been developed by chemistry professor and Nobel Laureate John People 
> and his students.  A company named Gaussian Inc was selling the software and 
> one of my tasks was to keep the version made available by the Pittsburgh 
> Supercomputing Center current. PSC is jointly operated  by CMU and Pitt and 
> it makes supercomputers and software available to researchers.  The 
> simplified understanding was that any artifact created by CMU researchers 
> could be sold commercially but that the University could not be charged for 
> its use.  When I asked for Gaussian 94 (a new version was released every two 
> years) the company stalled for weeks and eventually said we had to buy it.  
> To shorten the story, after months of litigation and just before the judge 
> was to issue his ruling, an out-of-court settlement was reached which was 
> confidential.  IP is a complex area.
> 
> ---
> Frank C. Wimberly
> 140 Calle Ojo Feliz, 
> Santa Fe, NM 87505
> 
> 505 670-9918
> Santa Fe, NM
> 
> On Tue, Jul 7, 2020, 7:05 AM ∄ uǝlƃ  > wrote:
> Continuing down the open access thread and the ethics of Schwartz' JSTOR 
> theft, libgen, and sci-hub:
> 
> Retractions and controversies over coronavirus research show that the process 
> of science is working as it should
> https://theconversation.com/retractions-and-controversies-over-coronavirus-research-show-that-the-process-of-science-is-working-as-it-should-140326
>  
> 
> 
> >From the article: "The database provided by the tiny company Surgisphere – 
> >whose website is no longer accessible – was unavailable during peer review 
> >of the paper or to scientists and the public afterwards, preventing anyone 
> >from evaluating the data."
> 
> The point I made in response to EricS's worry that emphasizing paper 
> consumption over book consumption was that the paper publishing process is 
> more agile and, I argue, can stick more closely to the referent(s). With that 
> agility comes some of the criticisms of Science™ (as well-expressed by Dave 
> recently). To my mind, those criticisms target the wrong thing. They're 
> failures of us to understand that there is no unified scientific method [†] 
> and, along with *openness* comes an understanding that the whole process is 
> messy and intensely social. I think it was Randy Burge who used to repeat a 
> mantra like "Not being right, but getting it right." That journals (as well 
> as newspapers) don't *require* open source and open data at the outset 
> boggles me.
> 
> Coincidentally, this popped up in my queue the other day:
> 
> Let's talk about why people are moving left
> https://youtu.be/2g0qUxgwHmo 
> 
> Ed's story about authors seeing very little compensation for their work, 
> Nick's plea for a way to harvest the minds of non-academics, the ethics of 
> Schwartz' theft, are all *old* issues targeting the same problems with late 
> stage capitalism now being targeted by BLM and antifa. Perhaps the incentive 
> and motive systems are the causes; and outcomes like libgen are the symptoms.
> 
> 
> [†] I'm currently (slowly, as usual) reading a nice little book called 
> "Ignorance" https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/13574594-ignorance 
>

Re: [FRIAM] Book publishing advice needed

John Pople not John People.

---
Frank C. Wimberly
140 Calle Ojo Feliz,
Santa Fe, NM 87505

505 670-9918
Santa Fe, NM

On Tue, Jul 7, 2020, 7:39 AM Frank Wimberly  wrote:

> Carnegie Mellon's intellectual property policy was described in a ~50 page
> summary  document when I worked there.  But it was apparently more
> complicated than that.  I had to testify in Federal Court regarding
> software that had been developed by chemistry professor and Nobel Laureate
> John People and his students.  A company named Gaussian Inc was selling the
> software and one of my tasks was to keep the version made available by the
> Pittsburgh Supercomputing Center current. PSC is jointly operated  by CMU
> and Pitt and it makes supercomputers and software available to
> researchers.  The simplified understanding was that any artifact created by
> CMU researchers could be sold commercially but that the University could
> not be charged for its use.  When I asked for Gaussian 94 (a new version
> was released every two years) the company stalled for weeks and eventually
> said we had to buy it.  To shorten the story, after months of litigation
> and just before the judge was to issue his ruling, an out-of-court
> settlement was reached which was confidential.  IP is a complex area.
>
> ---
> Frank C. Wimberly
> 140 Calle Ojo Feliz,
> Santa Fe, NM 87505
>
> 505 670-9918
> Santa Fe, NM
>
> On Tue, Jul 7, 2020, 7:05 AM ∄ uǝlƃ  wrote:
>
>> Continuing down the open access thread and the ethics of Schwartz' JSTOR
>> theft, libgen, and sci-hub:
>>
>> Retractions and controversies over coronavirus research show that the
>> process of science is working as it should
>>
>> https://theconversation.com/retractions-and-controversies-over-coronavirus-research-show-that-the-process-of-science-is-working-as-it-should-140326
>>
>> From the article: "The database provided by the tiny company Surgisphere
>> – whose website is no longer accessible – was unavailable during peer
>> review of the paper or to scientists and the public afterwards, preventing
>> anyone from evaluating the data."
>>
>> The point I made in response to EricS's worry that emphasizing paper
>> consumption over book consumption was that the paper publishing process is
>> more agile and, I argue, can stick more closely to the referent(s). With
>> that agility comes some of the criticisms of Science™ (as well-expressed by
>> Dave recently). To my mind, those criticisms target the wrong thing.
>> They're failures of us to understand that there is no unified scientific
>> method [†] and, along with *openness* comes an understanding that the whole
>> process is messy and intensely social. I think it was Randy Burge who used
>> to repeat a mantra like "Not being right, but getting it right." That
>> journals (as well as newspapers) don't *require* open source and open data
>> at the outset boggles me.
>>
>> Coincidentally, this popped up in my queue the other day:
>>
>> Let's talk about why people are moving left
>> https://youtu.be/2g0qUxgwHmo
>>
>> Ed's story about authors seeing very little compensation for their work,
>> Nick's plea for a way to harvest the minds of non-academics, the ethics of
>> Schwartz' theft, are all *old* issues targeting the same problems with late
>> stage capitalism now being targeted by BLM and antifa. Perhaps the
>> incentive and motive systems are the causes; and outcomes like libgen are
>> the symptoms.
>>
>>
>> [†] I'm currently (slowly, as usual) reading a nice little book called
>> "Ignorance" https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/13574594-ignorance that
>> makes this point nicely. I put the book down in disgust when he started
>> yapping about quantum mechanics. Why does everyone always do that even if
>> they admit upfront they don't know what they're talking about? [sigh]
>> Anyway, I got over it and have started again.
>>
>> On 7/7/20 4:59 AM, Edward Angel wrote:
>> > I have to negotiate the terms with the university, I can, however, make
>> anything I develop open source. It took a while for universities to agree
>> that that that decision is totally up to the faculty member.
>> --
>> ☣ uǝlƃ
>>
>> -  . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-.  . .-. .
>> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
>> Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6  bit.ly/virtualfriam
>> un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
>> archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/
>> FRIAM-COMIC 
>> http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/
>>
>
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Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6  bit.ly/virtualfriam
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Re: [FRIAM] Book publishing advice needed

Carnegie Mellon's intellectual property policy was described in a ~50 page
summary  document when I worked there.  But it was apparently more
complicated than that.  I had to testify in Federal Court regarding
software that had been developed by chemistry professor and Nobel Laureate
John People and his students.  A company named Gaussian Inc was selling the
software and one of my tasks was to keep the version made available by the
Pittsburgh Supercomputing Center current. PSC is jointly operated  by CMU
and Pitt and it makes supercomputers and software available to
researchers.  The simplified understanding was that any artifact created by
CMU researchers could be sold commercially but that the University could
not be charged for its use.  When I asked for Gaussian 94 (a new version
was released every two years) the company stalled for weeks and eventually
said we had to buy it.  To shorten the story, after months of litigation
and just before the judge was to issue his ruling, an out-of-court
settlement was reached which was confidential.  IP is a complex area.

---
Frank C. Wimberly
140 Calle Ojo Feliz,
Santa Fe, NM 87505

505 670-9918
Santa Fe, NM

On Tue, Jul 7, 2020, 7:05 AM ∄ uǝlƃ  wrote:

> Continuing down the open access thread and the ethics of Schwartz' JSTOR
> theft, libgen, and sci-hub:
>
> Retractions and controversies over coronavirus research show that the
> process of science is working as it should
>
> https://theconversation.com/retractions-and-controversies-over-coronavirus-research-show-that-the-process-of-science-is-working-as-it-should-140326
>
> From the article: "The database provided by the tiny company Surgisphere –
> whose website is no longer accessible – was unavailable during peer review
> of the paper or to scientists and the public afterwards, preventing anyone
> from evaluating the data."
>
> The point I made in response to EricS's worry that emphasizing paper
> consumption over book consumption was that the paper publishing process is
> more agile and, I argue, can stick more closely to the referent(s). With
> that agility comes some of the criticisms of Science™ (as well-expressed by
> Dave recently). To my mind, those criticisms target the wrong thing.
> They're failures of us to understand that there is no unified scientific
> method [†] and, along with *openness* comes an understanding that the whole
> process is messy and intensely social. I think it was Randy Burge who used
> to repeat a mantra like "Not being right, but getting it right." That
> journals (as well as newspapers) don't *require* open source and open data
> at the outset boggles me.
>
> Coincidentally, this popped up in my queue the other day:
>
> Let's talk about why people are moving left
> https://youtu.be/2g0qUxgwHmo
>
> Ed's story about authors seeing very little compensation for their work,
> Nick's plea for a way to harvest the minds of non-academics, the ethics of
> Schwartz' theft, are all *old* issues targeting the same problems with late
> stage capitalism now being targeted by BLM and antifa. Perhaps the
> incentive and motive systems are the causes; and outcomes like libgen are
> the symptoms.
>
>
> [†] I'm currently (slowly, as usual) reading a nice little book called
> "Ignorance" https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/13574594-ignorance that
> makes this point nicely. I put the book down in disgust when he started
> yapping about quantum mechanics. Why does everyone always do that even if
> they admit upfront they don't know what they're talking about? [sigh]
> Anyway, I got over it and have started again.
>
> On 7/7/20 4:59 AM, Edward Angel wrote:
> > I have to negotiate the terms with the university, I can, however, make
> anything I develop open source. It took a while for universities to agree
> that that that decision is totally up to the faculty member.
> --
> ☣ uǝlƃ
>
> -  . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-.  . .-. .
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6  bit.ly/virtualfriam
> un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
> archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/
> FRIAM-COMIC 
> http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/
>
-  . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-.  . .-. .
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6  bit.ly/virtualfriam
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Re: [FRIAM] Book publishing advice needed

Continuing down the open access thread and the ethics of Schwartz' JSTOR theft,
libgen, and sci-hub:

Retractions and controversies over coronavirus research show that the process
of science is working as it should
https://theconversation.com/retractions-and-controversies-over-coronavirus-research-show-that-the-process-of-science-is-working-as-it-should-140326

From the article: "The database provided by the tiny company Surgisphere –
whose website is no longer accessible – was unavailable during peer review of
the paper or to scientists and the public afterwards, preventing anyone from
evaluating the data."

The point I made in response to EricS's worry that emphasizing paper
consumption over book consumption was that the paper publishing process is more
agile and, I argue, can stick more closely to the referent(s). With that
agility comes some of the criticisms of Science™ (as well-expressed by Dave
recently). To my mind, those criticisms target the wrong thing. They're
failures of us to understand that there is no unified scientific method [†]
and, along with *openness* comes an understanding that the whole process is
messy and intensely social. I think it was Randy Burge who used to repeat a
mantra like "Not being right, but getting it right." That journals (as well as
newspapers) don't *require* open source and open data at the outset boggles me.

Coincidentally, this popped up in my queue the other day:

Let's talk about why people are moving left
https://youtu.be/2g0qUxgwHmo

Ed's story about authors seeing very little compensation for their work, Nick's
plea for a way to harvest the minds of non-academics, the ethics of Schwartz'
theft, are all *old* issues targeting the same problems with late stage
capitalism now being targeted by BLM and antifa. Perhaps the incentive and
motive systems are the causes; and outcomes like libgen are the symptoms.

[†] I'm currently (slowly, as usual) reading a nice little book called
"Ignorance" https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/13574594-ignorance that makes
this point nicely. I put the book down in disgust when he started yapping about
quantum mechanics. Why does everyone always do that even if they admit upfront
they don't know what they're talking about? [sigh] Anyway, I got over it and
have started again.

On 7/7/20 4:59 AM, Edward Angel wrote:
> I have to negotiate the terms with the university, I can, however, make
> anything I develop open source. It took a while for universities to agree
> that that that decision is totally up to the faculty member.
--
☣ uǝlƃ

- . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. . .-. .
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam
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Re: [FRIAM] Book publishing advice needed

2020-07-07 Thread Edward Angel

Gil,

Personally there are no financial gains in the form of residuals or research 
royalties from my research. In most colleges and universities, especially in 
science and engineering, successful researchers are expected to have a lot of 
external support through grants and are paid better, often much better, than 
their colleagues. If any of their work is patentable or leads to a commercial 
entity, they have to work out a split with the university. It can get 
complicated if the work is done through allowable consulting time or one’s 
personal time.

Right to creative work like books, music and art has traditionally belonged to 
the faculty member.

Policies with respect to software have evolved over the past 30 years. 
Generally, if I develop software as part of my teaching or research and 
commercialize it in some way, I have to negotiate the terms with the 
university, I can, however, make anything I develop open source. It took a 
while for universities to agree that that that decision is totally up to the 
faculty member.

The rules on IP for students are totally different and embedded in federal law. 
Generally, students own the rights to anything they produce, whether or not 
it’s part of assigned work in a class.

Ed
__

Ed Angel

Founding Director, Art, Research, Technology and Science Laboratory (ARTS Lab)
Professor Emeritus of Computer Science, University of New Mexico

1017 Sierra Pinon
Santa Fe, NM 87501
505-984-0136 (home) an...@cs.unm.edu 

505-453-4944 (cell) http://www.cs.unm.edu/~angel 


> On Jul 6, 2020, at 7:06 PM, Gillian Densmore  wrote:
> 
> I did not know that either about india. Thanks!
> Ed do you get residuals and research royalties from your work? (not to pry) 
> just curious to get my head around the economics of this.
> 
> On Mon, Jul 6, 2020 at 5:28 PM ∄ uǝlƃ  > wrote:
> 
> Nick has asked us to consider ways in which society, given its current 
> structure including sci-hub and libgen, peer network theft, "late stage" 
> capitalism (including things like Amazon and the gig economy), the decline of 
> universities, youtube, and everything else, might *facilitate* 
> non-credentialed, paid, authorship ... or more generally intellectual work 
> outside academia. I don't have any kind of response, yet. But given that 
> question and your calling out libgen (and its use) as an ethical question 
> *and* given your description that the creators aren't paid much as things 
> are, I'd like to know how you (and everyone else) parse things like Aaron 
> Schwartz' Open Access Manfesto, the FAIR principles, CopyLeft, etc.
> 
> It strikes me one could decide using libgen is ethically necessary, or at 
> least virtuous.
> 
> I don't think that. But I have a friend who comes close. He hosted Game of 
> Thrones nights at his house, attended by several of their friends [†]. Early 
> on, he stole the episodes with Torrent. When that dried up, they shared a 
> single Netflix login so all of them (maybe 10 or so) could watch while 
> minimizing the cost. And every single one of these households pulls in >$100k 
> per year. There's literally zero financial reason to go to such extents to 
> steal that sort of content ... *except* if they believe they're "justified" 
> or "right" in doing so.
> 
> So, if the existence of, contribution to, and use of libgen is an ethical 
> question, do you think someone who decides they *should* participate in the 
> project has made a reasonable ethical choice?
> 
> 
> [†] I still wonder why they never invited us to their GoT parties. >8^D
> 
> On 7/5/20 4:47 PM, Edward Angel wrote:
> > Consequently, the holders of the copyright have no protection at all other 
> > than some people having ethical issues with libgen. Sadly, I find many of 
> > my colleagues and students do not see this as an ethical issue. 
> 
> On 7/6/20 4:04 PM, Edward Angel wrote:
> > You are just touching the surface of how authors are not making profits.
> > 
> > If a book is sold in a college bookstore (all of which rip off students) I 
> > get my contractual royalties (18% of net which is about 80% of gross). 
> > Sounds good but then there are a number of side deals (my six monthly 
> > royalty statement is over 20 pages long). 
> > 
> > Net from an Amazon sales is almost nothing.
> > 
> > Any international sales reduce any royalty by 50%. An Amazon sale in India 
> > or China nets me almost nothing.
> > 
> > But it gets worse.
> > 
> > There is an International Edition which is handled through Pearson in Hong 
> > Kong. To avoid  possible copyright issues they get the tex files from 
> > Pearson USA and change some of the exercises such that the pagination is 
> > exactly the same. The changed problems are idiotic and I believe violate my 
> > contract. The best I could do for the new edition is get a clause in my 
> > contract that forces them

Re: [FRIAM] Book publishing advice needed

2020-07-06 Thread Gillian Densmore

I did not know that either about india. Thanks!
Ed do you get residuals and research royalties from your work? (not to pry)
just curious to get my head around the economics of this.

On Mon, Jul 6, 2020 at 5:28 PM ∄ uǝlƃ  wrote:

>
> Nick has asked us to consider ways in which society, given its current
> structure including sci-hub and libgen, peer network theft, "late stage"
> capitalism (including things like Amazon and the gig economy), the decline
> of universities, youtube, and everything else, might *facilitate*
> non-credentialed, paid, authorship ... or more generally intellectual work
> outside academia. I don't have any kind of response, yet. But given that
> question and your calling out libgen (and its use) as an ethical question
> *and* given your description that the creators aren't paid much as things
> are, I'd like to know how you (and everyone else) parse things like Aaron
> Schwartz' Open Access Manfesto, the FAIR principles, CopyLeft, etc.
>
> It strikes me one could decide using libgen is ethically necessary, or at
> least virtuous.
>
> I don't think that. But I have a friend who comes close. He hosted Game of
> Thrones nights at his house, attended by several of their friends [†].
> Early on, he stole the episodes with Torrent. When that dried up, they
> shared a single Netflix login so all of them (maybe 10 or so) could watch
> while minimizing the cost. And every single one of these households pulls
> in >$100k per year. There's literally zero financial reason to go to such
> extents to steal that sort of content ... *except* if they believe they're
> "justified" or "right" in doing so.
>
> So, if the existence of, contribution to, and use of libgen is an ethical
> question, do you think someone who decides they *should* participate in the
> project has made a reasonable ethical choice?
>
>
> [†] I still wonder why they never invited us to their GoT parties. >8^D
>
> On 7/5/20 4:47 PM, Edward Angel wrote:
> > Consequently, the holders of the copyright have no protection at all
> other than some people having ethical issues with libgen. Sadly, I find
> many of my colleagues and students do not see this as an ethical issue.
>
> On 7/6/20 4:04 PM, Edward Angel wrote:
> > You are just touching the surface of how authors are not making profits.
> >
> > If a book is sold in a college bookstore (all of which rip off students)
> I get my contractual royalties (18% of net which is about 80% of gross).
> Sounds good but then there are a number of side deals (my six monthly
> royalty statement is over 20 pages long).
> >
> > Net from an Amazon sales is almost nothing.
> >
> > Any international sales reduce any royalty by 50%. An Amazon sale in
> India or China nets me almost nothing.
> >
> > But it gets worse.
> >
> > There is an International Edition which is handled through Pearson in
> Hong Kong. To avoid  possible copyright issues they get the tex files from
> Pearson USA and change some of the exercises such that the pagination is
> exactly the same. The changed problems are idiotic and I believe violate my
> contract. The best I could do for the new edition is get a clause in my
> contract that forces them to take my name off a version if they make
> changes I don’t approve.
> >
> > But there’s more.
> >
> > Pearson HK competes with Pearson US and other Pearson subsidiaries, So
> they can offer a lower cost International version on the web to US
> students. So not only are my royalties reduced by over 50% but Pearson HK
> is said to be doing well and Pearson US and my editor are not even though
> they and he did all the work. (he’s not longer with the company).
> >
> > And finally there’s China. Pearson sells the rights to China for a few
> thousand dollars, of which I get a small piece, and China can then print as
> many Chinese copies as they like. When I questioned management about what
> appeared to me to be a ridiculous deal, the answer was that if they asked
> for more, the Chinese would simply copy it for free.
>
>
> --
> ☣ uǝlƃ
>
> -  . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-.  . .-. .
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6  bit.ly/virtualfriam
> un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
> archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/
> FRIAM-COMIC 
> http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/
>
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Re: [FRIAM] Book publishing advice needed

2020-07-06 Thread ∄ uǝlƃ

Nick has asked us to consider ways in which society, given its current 
structure including sci-hub and libgen, peer network theft, "late stage" 
capitalism (including things like Amazon and the gig economy), the decline of 
universities, youtube, and everything else, might *facilitate* 
non-credentialed, paid, authorship ... or more generally intellectual work 
outside academia. I don't have any kind of response, yet. But given that 
question and your calling out libgen (and its use) as an ethical question *and* 
given your description that the creators aren't paid much as things are, I'd 
like to know how you (and everyone else) parse things like Aaron Schwartz' Open 
Access Manfesto, the FAIR principles, CopyLeft, etc.

It strikes me one could decide using libgen is ethically necessary, or at least 
virtuous.

I don't think that. But I have a friend who comes close. He hosted Game of 
Thrones nights at his house, attended by several of their friends [†]. Early 
on, he stole the episodes with Torrent. When that dried up, they shared a 
single Netflix login so all of them (maybe 10 or so) could watch while 
minimizing the cost. And every single one of these households pulls in >$100k 
per year. There's literally zero financial reason to go to such extents to 
steal that sort of content ... *except* if they believe they're "justified" or 
"right" in doing so.

So, if the existence of, contribution to, and use of libgen is an ethical 
question, do you think someone who decides they *should* participate in the 
project has made a reasonable ethical choice?

[†] I still wonder why they never invited us to their GoT parties. >8^D

On 7/5/20 4:47 PM, Edward Angel wrote:
> Consequently, the holders of the copyright have no protection at all other 
> than some people having ethical issues with libgen. Sadly, I find many of my 
> colleagues and students do not see this as an ethical issue. 

On 7/6/20 4:04 PM, Edward Angel wrote:
> You are just touching the surface of how authors are not making profits.
> 
> If a book is sold in a college bookstore (all of which rip off students) I 
> get my contractual royalties (18% of net which is about 80% of gross). Sounds 
> good but then there are a number of side deals (my six monthly royalty 
> statement is over 20 pages long). 
> 
> Net from an Amazon sales is almost nothing.
> 
> Any international sales reduce any royalty by 50%. An Amazon sale in India or 
> China nets me almost nothing.
> 
> But it gets worse.
> 
> There is an International Edition which is handled through Pearson in Hong 
> Kong. To avoid  possible copyright issues they get the tex files from Pearson 
> USA and change some of the exercises such that the pagination is exactly the 
> same. The changed problems are idiotic and I believe violate my contract. The 
> best I could do for the new edition is get a clause in my contract that 
> forces them to take my name off a version if they make changes I don’t 
> approve.
> 
> But there’s more.
> 
> Pearson HK competes with Pearson US and other Pearson subsidiaries, So they 
> can offer a lower cost International version on the web to US students. So 
> not only are my royalties reduced by over 50% but Pearson HK is said to be 
> doing well and Pearson US and my editor are not even though they and he did 
> all the work. (he’s not longer with the company).
> 
> And finally there’s China. Pearson sells the rights to China for a few 
> thousand dollars, of which I get a small piece, and China can then print as 
> many Chinese copies as they like. When I questioned management about what 
> appeared to me to be a ridiculous deal, the answer was that if they asked for 
> more, the Chinese would simply copy it for free.

-- 
☣ uǝlƃ

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Re: [FRIAM] Book publishing advice needed

2020-07-06 Thread Edward Angel

.
>> 
>> Before I forget, you might enjoy reading of my adventures writing the first 
>> edition of my present textbook while on sabbatical in Venezuela, Ecuador, 
>> Hong Kong and Nepal. There’s a pointer to it on my home page 
>> www.cs.unm.edu/~angel <http://www.cs.unm.edu/~angel> 
>> 
>> When I had to pick a publisher, I knew the editors and  local book reps at 
>> Academic Press, Addison-Wesley, Prentice Hall and Benjamin/Cummings. They 
>> dominated the CS field and did so largely because they had editors who knew 
>> the field, excellent book reps who knew the needs of the faculty and 
>> students, a willingness to invest in a book, and in-house production. None 
>> of these exist anymore and, as Tom pointed out, you're largely on your own. 
>> It’s unfortunate if you care about how many copies get sold and your 
>> royalties. I have many friends who self-published in the past. It’s a lot of 
>> work either way but I prefer to put my effort into content and not 
>> type-setting or marketing. None of my self-published friends have ever sold 
>> many books.
>> 
>> I had three excellent editors over 20 years. When I did my first edition, my 
>> editor hired a development editor at great expense to improve the quality of 
>> my writing. She worked with the CS faculty and grad students at Caltech and 
>> Stanford. It made a huge difference. Now almost none of these jobs exist 
>> within the publishers. All production is contracted out to the low bidders 
>> (art, typesetting, copy editing, etc) most of whom are in India. I no longer 
>> have an editor. There is one person working for the publusher with whom I 
>> communicate with to try to get things done correctly with the contractors. 
>> This last edition has been a long painful experience. 
>> 
>> So what happened? Books were always expensive for students, especially when 
>> sold through college bookstores. Then used book sellers appeared and Asian 
>> students started importing low cost Asian versions of the standard 
>> textbooks. Under US copyright laws, both are legal. The publishers responded 
>> by upping prices which reduced sales even more.
>> 
>> And then came electronic media. At first, my book, like most others, was 
>> still print-only. But the publisher sent perfect unwatermarked pdfs to all 
>> the schools what adopted the book for use by students with special needs. 
>> Wasn’t long before those pdfs made it to the Web. Then they had a electronic 
>> version and a kindle version that students could rent for a semester or 
>> year. The publisher, the largest in the business, was clueless about web 
>> security and had no idea that Kindles are not secure. Very quickly, the book 
>> appeared (with most of the other cs texts and various best sellers) on a 
>> Russian website as a “public service.” End of paid sales.
>> 
>> The new edition is only available in electronic form and the publisher 
>> claims it is only available on a secure site. I doubt anyone on this list 
>> believes that.
>> 
>> Although I never in the past had issues with the publisher having the 
>> copyright, which was pretty standard, I wish I had it now. Since there is no 
>> hope of making significant royalties now (we used), my coauthor and I would 
>> like to put the book out for free on our websites rather than having it 
>> appear on various illegal Russian sites known to most students.
>> 
>> Personally, I no longer care about royalties but the long term issue I worry 
>> about is why would any young person write a textbook. It’s a huge amount of 
>> work and usually not something that in the academic world is valued as 
>> highly as research papers and grant funding.
>> 
>> Ed
>> ___
>> 
>> Ed Angel
>> 
>> Founding Director, Art, Research, Technology and Science Laboratory (ARTS 
>> Lab)
>> Professor Emeritus of Computer Science, University of New Mexico
>> 
>> 1017 Sierra Pinon
>> Santa Fe, NM 87501
>> 505-984-0136 (home)  an...@cs.unm.edu 
>> <mailto:an...@cs.unm.edu>
>> 505-453-4944 (cell)  http://www.cs.unm.edu/~angel 
>> <http://www.cs.unm.edu/~angel>
>> 
>>> On Jul 4, 2020, at 2:25 PM, Jochen Fromm >> <mailto:j...@cas-group.net>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Thanks. Yes, self-publishing is an option. I am looking for an official 
>>> publisher mainly for one reason, namely that other scientists and 
>>> researchers can cite it, since I still cling to the illusion that someone 
>&g

Re: [FRIAM] Book publishing advice needed

2020-07-06 Thread Gary Schiltz

ensive for students, especially
>>>>> when sold through college bookstores. Then used book sellers appeared and
>>>>> Asian students started importing low cost Asian versions of the standard
>>>>> textbooks. Under US copyright laws, both are legal. The publishers
>>>>> responded by upping prices which reduced sales even more.
>>>>>
>>>>> And then came electronic media. At first, my book, like most others,
>>>>> was still print-only. But the publisher sent perfect unwatermarked pdfs to
>>>>> all the schools what adopted the book for use by students with special
>>>>> needs. Wasn’t long before those pdfs made it to the Web. Then they had a
>>>>> electronic version and a kindle version that students could rent for a
>>>>> semester or year. The publisher, the largest in the business, was clueless
>>>>> about web security and had no idea that Kindles are not secure. Very
>>>>> quickly, the book appeared (with most of the other cs texts and various
>>>>> best sellers) on a Russian website as a “public service.” End of paid 
>>>>> sales.
>>>>>
>>>>> The new edition is only available in electronic form and the publisher
>>>>> claims it is only available on a secure site. I doubt anyone on this list
>>>>> believes that.
>>>>>
>>>>> Although I never in the past had issues with the publisher having the
>>>>> copyright, which was pretty standard, I wish I had it now. Since there is
>>>>> no hope of making significant royalties now (we used), my coauthor and I
>>>>> would like to put the book out for free on our websites rather than having
>>>>> it appear on various illegal Russian sites known to most students.
>>>>>
>>>>> Personally, I no longer care about royalties but the long term issue I
>>>>> worry about is why would any young person write a textbook. It’s a huge
>>>>> amount of work and usually not something that in the academic world is
>>>>> valued as highly as research papers and grant funding.
>>>>>
>>>>> Ed
>>>>> ___
>>>>>
>>>>> Ed Angel
>>>>>
>>>>> Founding Director, Art, Research, Technology and Science Laboratory
>>>>> (ARTS Lab)
>>>>> Professor Emeritus of Computer Science, University of New Mexico
>>>>>
>>>>> 1017 Sierra Pinon
>>>>> Santa Fe, NM 87501
>>>>> 505-984-0136 (home)   an...@cs.unm.edu
>>>>> 505-453-4944 (cell)  http://www.cs.unm.edu/~angel
>>>>>
>>>>> On Jul 4, 2020, at 2:25 PM, Jochen Fromm  wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks. Yes, self-publishing is an option. I am looking for an
>>>>> official publisher mainly for one reason, namely that other scientists and
>>>>> researchers can cite it, since I still cling to the illusion that someone
>>>>> would actually do it. Normally self-published texts are not considered as
>>>>> reliable or trustworthy sources. I didn't expect that finding a decent
>>>>> publisher would be so difficult.
>>>>>
>>>>> -J.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>  Original message 
>>>>> From: Tom Johnson 
>>>>> Date: 7/4/20 20:10 (GMT+01:00)
>>>>> To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <
>>>>> friam@redfish.com>
>>>>> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Book publishing advice needed
>>>>>
>>>>> Jochen:
>>>>> The deal being offered strikes me as a bad deal.
>>>>>
>>>>> Background:  I have been practicing and teaching about "Be Your Own
>>>>> Publisher" for nearly 15 years.  There are, in my opinion, some major
>>>>> problems with all publishers today.  It starts with control of the
>>>>> copyright.  I think YOU should want to maintain control of the copyright 
>>>>> to
>>>>> your work.  It will depend on the contract, but many or most publishers
>>>>> will try to lock down the copyright in their favor for all -- ALL -- forms
>>>>> of your work in perpetuity and throughout the universe.  Sometimes quite
>>>>> literally.
>>>>>
>>>>> Second, you should assume -- especially with a small publisher and

Re: [FRIAM] Book publishing advice needed

2020-07-06 Thread Sarbajit Roy

kly, the book appeared (with most of the other cs texts and various
>>>> best sellers) on a Russian website as a “public service.” End of paid 
>>>> sales.
>>>>
>>>> The new edition is only available in electronic form and the publisher
>>>> claims it is only available on a secure site. I doubt anyone on this list
>>>> believes that.
>>>>
>>>> Although I never in the past had issues with the publisher having the
>>>> copyright, which was pretty standard, I wish I had it now. Since there is
>>>> no hope of making significant royalties now (we used), my coauthor and I
>>>> would like to put the book out for free on our websites rather than having
>>>> it appear on various illegal Russian sites known to most students.
>>>>
>>>> Personally, I no longer care about royalties but the long term issue I
>>>> worry about is why would any young person write a textbook. It’s a huge
>>>> amount of work and usually not something that in the academic world is
>>>> valued as highly as research papers and grant funding.
>>>>
>>>> Ed
>>>> ___
>>>>
>>>> Ed Angel
>>>>
>>>> Founding Director, Art, Research, Technology and Science Laboratory
>>>> (ARTS Lab)
>>>> Professor Emeritus of Computer Science, University of New Mexico
>>>>
>>>> 1017 Sierra Pinon
>>>> Santa Fe, NM 87501
>>>> 505-984-0136 (home)   an...@cs.unm.edu
>>>> 505-453-4944 (cell)  http://www.cs.unm.edu/~angel
>>>>
>>>> On Jul 4, 2020, at 2:25 PM, Jochen Fromm  wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Thanks. Yes, self-publishing is an option. I am looking for an official
>>>> publisher mainly for one reason, namely that other scientists and
>>>> researchers can cite it, since I still cling to the illusion that someone
>>>> would actually do it. Normally self-published texts are not considered as
>>>> reliable or trustworthy sources. I didn't expect that finding a decent
>>>> publisher would be so difficult.
>>>>
>>>> -J.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>  Original message 
>>>> From: Tom Johnson 
>>>> Date: 7/4/20 20:10 (GMT+01:00)
>>>> To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <
>>>> friam@redfish.com>
>>>> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Book publishing advice needed
>>>>
>>>> Jochen:
>>>> The deal being offered strikes me as a bad deal.
>>>>
>>>> Background:  I have been practicing and teaching about "Be Your Own
>>>> Publisher" for nearly 15 years.  There are, in my opinion, some major
>>>> problems with all publishers today.  It starts with control of the
>>>> copyright.  I think YOU should want to maintain control of the copyright to
>>>> your work.  It will depend on the contract, but many or most publishers
>>>> will try to lock down the copyright in their favor for all -- ALL -- forms
>>>> of your work in perpetuity and throughout the universe.  Sometimes quite
>>>> literally.
>>>>
>>>> Second, you should assume -- especially with a small publisher and you,
>>>> not being as well known  as Stephen King or Daniel Steele  -- the publisher
>>>> will do little if anything to promote your book beyond a mention in its
>>>> catalog and, maybe, some promotional links on Amazon.  Given that, a 5
>>>> percent royalty should be seen as a con.
>>>>
>>>> Third, given your computing experience, you should find it easy to
>>>> format and produce the book yourself.  I have used Lulu.com
>>>> <http://lulu.com/> for years.  It is especially good if you want to
>>>> have both hardback, paperback and PDF editions.  Again the advantages: you
>>>> keep the copyright, you can set (and change) the prices and to a degree the
>>>> royalties.  Also, Lulu and Amazon handle all the backend financial
>>>> arrangements and administration and pay directly and quickly.  I also use a
>>>> very good, high quality digital printer in Albuquerque for paperback
>>>> editions.  It is Lithexcel <https://lithexcel.com/services/print.html>.
>>>> It handles all the printing (one copy to any number) quickly, along with
>>>> all the fulfillment and accounting. The folks there will also, for only
>>>> $25, set up your boo

Re: [FRIAM] Book publishing advice needed

And who among us will hire the lawyers to press this case?
T

On Sun, Jul 5, 2020, 10:11 PM  wrote:

> Oh by the way,  if I remember correctly, one of the fundamental
> obligations of a publisher is to defend infringements of copyright.  Thus,
> if they fail in this obligation, copyright, FWIW, reverts to the author,
> no?
>
>
>
> N
>
>
>
> Nicholas Thompson
>
> Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology
>
> Clark University
>
> thompnicks...@gmail.com
>
> https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Friam  *On Behalf Of *Edward Angel
> *Sent:* Sunday, July 5, 2020 5:48 PM
> *To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <
> friam@redfish.com>
> *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] Book publishing advice needed
>
>
>
> Thanks but the story is more complex.
>
>
>
> What transpired is in retrospect somewhat amusing. I received an email
> from someone at a university that was using the book asking if I knew there
> was a ps file on the web of the whole book. I checked it out, contacted the
> instructor who had it taken down. I had no idea how anyone had obtained a
> perfect copy of the book. Even during copyediting, I never was given access
> to a final ps version with even the typesetting marks. My editor started a
> big investigation at Pearson to see who had violated security during
> production only to find out after weeks that the people at Pearson who
> dealt with accessibility issues were sending out the file to every school
> that adopted the book (at the time around 200 just in the US).
>
>
>
> What is odd to me is that the last time I checked libgen.io, which was a
> while ago, the version there was not a ps version put a pdf in which you
> could use the TOC interactively so I figured it was the kindle version
> which my editor, who had become somewhat expert at this, showed me how easy
> it is to get the kindle version. Apparently what is the the situation now
> is that the ps version is libgen.is so someone else must have uploaded it.
>
>
>
> The material on the Indian decision on respect to fair use was very
> interesting. I was familiar with the fair use policies in the U.S. and the
> U.K. In spirit, they are the same. However, the problem is not fair use but
> with sites like libgen, where anyone can upload a file irrespective of
> copyright or ownership  That file is then available worldwide to everyone.
> Consequently, the holders of the copyright have no protection at all other
> than some people having ethical issues with libgen. Sadly, I find many of
> my colleagues and students do not see this as an ethical issue.
>
>
>
> Ed
>
>
>
> ___
>
>
> Ed Angel
>
> Founding Director, Art, Research, Technology and Science Laboratory
> (ARTS Lab)
> Professor Emeritus of Computer Science, University of New Mexico
>
> 1017 Sierra Pinon
>
> Santa Fe, NM 87501
> 505-984-0136 (home) an...@cs.unm.edu
>
> 505-453-4944 (cell)
> http://www.cs.unm.edu/~angel
>
>
>
> On Jul 5, 2020, at 4:14 PM, Sarbajit Roy  wrote:
>
>
>
> Edward
>
> The PDF of the 7th edition of your book being widely circulated was very
> likely not generated from its Kindle version, but from the Postscript
> version used to print your book. It was generated using Adobe Distiller 7+
> for a Macintosh. Must have been cloned from one of those unwatermarked
> copies dished out by your publisher's marketing team to "potential"
> customers.
>
>
>
> Sarbajit
>
> On Sun, Jul 5, 2020 at 2:52 AM Edward Angel  wrote:
>
> I’ve been a book author since 1972 and a textbook author since 1989. My
> computer graphics textbook has been the most popular book in the area for
> 20 years and just came out in its eighth edition with various editions
> being available in Chinese, Korean, Japanese and Russian. Sadly, the book
> business has changed over that time; changed in way that is bad for almost
> everyone, especially authors. I think you’re faced with a lot of bad
> choices. I hope some of the following will prove helpful. And if not
> helpful, at least interesting.
>
>
>
> Before I forget, you might enjoy reading of my adventures writing the
> first edition of my present textbook while on sabbatical in Venezuela,
> Ecuador, Hong Kong and Nepal. There’s a pointer to it on my home page
> www.cs.unm.edu/~angel
>
>
>
> When I had to pick a publisher, I knew the editors and  local book reps at
> Academic Press, Addison-Wesley, Prentice Hall and Benjamin/Cummings. They
> dominated the CS field and did so largely because they had editors who knew
> the field, excellent book reps who knew

Re: [FRIAM] Book publishing advice needed

Oh by the way,  if I remember correctly, one of the fundamental obligations of 
a publisher is to defend infringements of copyright.  Thus, if they fail in 
this obligation, copyright, FWIW, reverts to the author, no? 

 

N

 

Nicholas Thompson

Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology

Clark University

 <mailto:thompnicks...@gmail.com> thompnicks...@gmail.com

 <https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/> 
https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/

 

 

From: Friam  On Behalf Of Edward Angel
Sent: Sunday, July 5, 2020 5:48 PM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group 
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Book publishing advice needed

 

Thanks but the story is more complex. 

 

What transpired is in retrospect somewhat amusing. I received an email from 
someone at a university that was using the book asking if I knew there was a ps 
file on the web of the whole book. I checked it out, contacted the instructor 
who had it taken down. I had no idea how anyone had obtained a perfect copy of 
the book. Even during copyediting, I never was given access to a final ps 
version with even the typesetting marks. My editor started a big investigation 
at Pearson to see who had violated security during production only to find out 
after weeks that the people at Pearson who dealt with accessibility issues were 
sending out the file to every school that adopted the book (at the time around 
200 just in the US).

 

What is odd to me is that the last time I checked libgen.io <http://libgen.io> 
, which was a while ago, the version there was not a ps version put a pdf in 
which you could use the TOC interactively so I figured it was the kindle 
version which my editor, who had become somewhat expert at this, showed me how 
easy it is to get the kindle version. Apparently what is the the situation now 
is that the ps version is libgen.is <http://libgen.is>  so someone else must 
have uploaded it.

 

The material on the Indian decision on respect to fair use was very 
interesting. I was familiar with the fair use policies in the U.S. and the U.K. 
In spirit, they are the same. However, the problem is not fair use but with 
sites like libgen, where anyone can upload a file irrespective of copyright or 
ownership  That file is then available worldwide to everyone. Consequently, the 
holders of the copyright have no protection at all other than some people 
having ethical issues with libgen. Sadly, I find many of my colleagues and 
students do not see this as an ethical issue. 

 

Ed

 

___


Ed Angel

Founding Director, Art, Research, Technology and Science Laboratory (ARTS Lab)
Professor Emeritus of Computer Science, University of New Mexico

1017 Sierra Pinon

Santa Fe, NM 87501
505-984-0136 (home) an...@cs.unm.edu 
<mailto:an...@cs.unm.edu> 

505-453-4944 (cell)
http://www.cs.unm.edu/~angel





On Jul 5, 2020, at 4:14 PM, Sarbajit Roy mailto:sroy...@gmail.com> > wrote:

 

Edward

The PDF of the 7th edition of your book being widely circulated was very likely 
not generated from its Kindle version, but from the Postscript version used to 
print your book. It was generated using Adobe Distiller 7+ for a Macintosh. 
Must have been cloned from one of those unwatermarked copies dished out by your 
publisher's marketing team to "potential" customers.

 

Sarbajit

On Sun, Jul 5, 2020 at 2:52 AM Edward Angel mailto:an...@cs.unm.edu> > wrote:

I’ve been a book author since 1972 and a textbook author since 1989. My 
computer graphics textbook has been the most popular book in the area for 20 
years and just came out in its eighth edition with various editions being 
available in Chinese, Korean, Japanese and Russian. Sadly, the book business 
has changed over that time; changed in way that is bad for almost everyone, 
especially authors. I think you’re faced with a lot of bad choices. I hope some 
of the following will prove helpful. And if not helpful, at least interesting.

 

Before I forget, you might enjoy reading of my adventures writing the first 
edition of my present textbook while on sabbatical in Venezuela, Ecuador, Hong 
Kong and Nepal. There’s a pointer to it on my home page www.cs.unm.edu/~angel 
<http://www.cs.unm.edu/~angel>  

 

When I had to pick a publisher, I knew the editors and  local book reps at 
Academic Press, Addison-Wesley, Prentice Hall and Benjamin/Cummings. They 
dominated the CS field and did so largely because they had editors who knew the 
field, excellent book reps who knew the needs of the faculty and students, a 
willingness to invest in a book, and in-house production. None of these exist 
anymore and, as Tom pointed out, you're largely on your own. It’s unfortunate 
if you care about how many copies get sold and your royalties. I have many 
friends who self-published in the past. It’s a lot of work either way but I 
prefer to put my effort i

Re: [FRIAM] Book publishing advice needed

2020-07-05 Thread Gary Schiltz

y authors. I think you’re faced with a lot of bad
>>> choices. I hope some of the following will prove helpful. And if not
>>> helpful, at least interesting.
>>>
>>> Before I forget, you might enjoy reading of my adventures writing the
>>> first edition of my present textbook while on sabbatical in Venezuela,
>>> Ecuador, Hong Kong and Nepal. There’s a pointer to it on my home page
>>> www.cs.unm.edu/~angel
>>>
>>> When I had to pick a publisher, I knew the editors and  local book reps
>>> at Academic Press, Addison-Wesley, Prentice Hall and Benjamin/Cummings.
>>> They dominated the CS field and did so largely because they had editors who
>>> knew the field, excellent book reps who knew the needs of the faculty and
>>> students, a willingness to invest in a book, and in-house production. None
>>> of these exist anymore and, as Tom pointed out, you're largely on your own.
>>> It’s unfortunate if you care about how many copies get sold and your
>>> royalties. I have many friends who self-published in the past. It’s a lot
>>> of work either way but I prefer to put my effort into content and not
>>> type-setting or marketing. None of my self-published friends have ever sold
>>> many books.
>>>
>>> I had three excellent editors over 20 years. When I did my first
>>> edition, my editor hired a development editor at great expense to improve
>>> the quality of my writing. She worked with the CS faculty and grad students
>>> at Caltech and Stanford. It made a huge difference. Now almost none of
>>> these jobs exist within the publishers. All production is contracted out to
>>> the low bidders (art, typesetting, copy editing, etc) most of whom are in
>>> India. I no longer have an editor. There is one person working for the
>>> publusher with whom I communicate with to try to get things done correctly
>>> with the contractors. This last edition has been a long painful experience.
>>>
>>> So what happened? Books were always expensive for students, especially
>>> when sold through college bookstores. Then used book sellers appeared and
>>> Asian students started importing low cost Asian versions of the standard
>>> textbooks. Under US copyright laws, both are legal. The publishers
>>> responded by upping prices which reduced sales even more.
>>>
>>> And then came electronic media. At first, my book, like most others, was
>>> still print-only. But the publisher sent perfect unwatermarked pdfs to all
>>> the schools what adopted the book for use by students with special needs.
>>> Wasn’t long before those pdfs made it to the Web. Then they had a
>>> electronic version and a kindle version that students could rent for a
>>> semester or year. The publisher, the largest in the business, was clueless
>>> about web security and had no idea that Kindles are not secure. Very
>>> quickly, the book appeared (with most of the other cs texts and various
>>> best sellers) on a Russian website as a “public service.” End of paid sales.
>>>
>>> The new edition is only available in electronic form and the publisher
>>> claims it is only available on a secure site. I doubt anyone on this list
>>> believes that.
>>>
>>> Although I never in the past had issues with the publisher having the
>>> copyright, which was pretty standard, I wish I had it now. Since there is
>>> no hope of making significant royalties now (we used), my coauthor and I
>>> would like to put the book out for free on our websites rather than having
>>> it appear on various illegal Russian sites known to most students.
>>>
>>> Personally, I no longer care about royalties but the long term issue I
>>> worry about is why would any young person write a textbook. It’s a huge
>>> amount of work and usually not something that in the academic world is
>>> valued as highly as research papers and grant funding.
>>>
>>> Ed
>>> _______
>>>
>>> Ed Angel
>>>
>>> Founding Director, Art, Research, Technology and Science Laboratory
>>> (ARTS Lab)
>>> Professor Emeritus of Computer Science, University of New Mexico
>>>
>>> 1017 Sierra Pinon
>>> Santa Fe, NM 87501
>>> 505-984-0136 (home)   an...@cs.unm.edu
>>> 505-453-4944 (cell)  http://www.cs.unm.edu/~angel
>>>
>>> On Jul 4, 2020, at 2:25 PM, Jochen Fromm  wrote:
>>>
>>> Thanks. Yes, self-publishing is an option. I am looking for an

Re: [FRIAM] Book publishing advice needed

2020-07-05 Thread Sarbajit Roy

if you care about how many copies get sold and your
>> royalties. I have many friends who self-published in the past. It’s a lot
>> of work either way but I prefer to put my effort into content and not
>> type-setting or marketing. None of my self-published friends have ever sold
>> many books.
>>
>> I had three excellent editors over 20 years. When I did my first edition,
>> my editor hired a development editor at great expense to improve the
>> quality of my writing. She worked with the CS faculty and grad students at
>> Caltech and Stanford. It made a huge difference. Now almost none of these
>> jobs exist within the publishers. All production is contracted out to the
>> low bidders (art, typesetting, copy editing, etc) most of whom are in
>> India. I no longer have an editor. There is one person working for the
>> publusher with whom I communicate with to try to get things done correctly
>> with the contractors. This last edition has been a long painful experience.
>>
>> So what happened? Books were always expensive for students, especially
>> when sold through college bookstores. Then used book sellers appeared and
>> Asian students started importing low cost Asian versions of the standard
>> textbooks. Under US copyright laws, both are legal. The publishers
>> responded by upping prices which reduced sales even more.
>>
>> And then came electronic media. At first, my book, like most others, was
>> still print-only. But the publisher sent perfect unwatermarked pdfs to all
>> the schools what adopted the book for use by students with special needs.
>> Wasn’t long before those pdfs made it to the Web. Then they had a
>> electronic version and a kindle version that students could rent for a
>> semester or year. The publisher, the largest in the business, was clueless
>> about web security and had no idea that Kindles are not secure. Very
>> quickly, the book appeared (with most of the other cs texts and various
>> best sellers) on a Russian website as a “public service.” End of paid sales.
>>
>> The new edition is only available in electronic form and the publisher
>> claims it is only available on a secure site. I doubt anyone on this list
>> believes that.
>>
>> Although I never in the past had issues with the publisher having the
>> copyright, which was pretty standard, I wish I had it now. Since there is
>> no hope of making significant royalties now (we used), my coauthor and I
>> would like to put the book out for free on our websites rather than having
>> it appear on various illegal Russian sites known to most students.
>>
>> Personally, I no longer care about royalties but the long term issue I
>> worry about is why would any young person write a textbook. It’s a huge
>> amount of work and usually not something that in the academic world is
>> valued as highly as research papers and grant funding.
>>
>> Ed
>> ___
>>
>> Ed Angel
>>
>> Founding Director, Art, Research, Technology and Science Laboratory
>> (ARTS Lab)
>> Professor Emeritus of Computer Science, University of New Mexico
>>
>> 1017 Sierra Pinon
>> Santa Fe, NM 87501
>> 505-984-0136 (home)   an...@cs.unm.edu
>> 505-453-4944 (cell)  http://www.cs.unm.edu/~angel
>>
>> On Jul 4, 2020, at 2:25 PM, Jochen Fromm  wrote:
>>
>> Thanks. Yes, self-publishing is an option. I am looking for an official
>> publisher mainly for one reason, namely that other scientists and
>> researchers can cite it, since I still cling to the illusion that someone
>> would actually do it. Normally self-published texts are not considered as
>> reliable or trustworthy sources. I didn't expect that finding a decent
>> publisher would be so difficult.
>>
>> -J.
>>
>>
>>  Original message 
>> From: Tom Johnson 
>> Date: 7/4/20 20:10 (GMT+01:00)
>> To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group 
>>
>> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Book publishing advice needed
>>
>> Jochen:
>> The deal being offered strikes me as a bad deal.
>>
>> Background:  I have been practicing and teaching about "Be Your Own
>> Publisher" for nearly 15 years.  There are, in my opinion, some major
>> problems with all publishers today.  It starts with control of the
>> copyright.  I think YOU should want to maintain control of the copyright to
>> your work.  It will depend on the contract, but many or most publishers
>> will try to lock down the copyright in their favor for all -- ALL -- forms
>> of your work in perpetuity

Re: [FRIAM] Book publishing advice needed

2020-07-05 Thread Edward Angel

idders 
> (art, typesetting, copy editing, etc) most of whom are in India. I no longer 
> have an editor. There is one person working for the publusher with whom I 
> communicate with to try to get things done correctly with the contractors. 
> This last edition has been a long painful experience. 
> 
> So what happened? Books were always expensive for students, especially when 
> sold through college bookstores. Then used book sellers appeared and Asian 
> students started importing low cost Asian versions of the standard textbooks. 
> Under US copyright laws, both are legal. The publishers responded by upping 
> prices which reduced sales even more.
> 
> And then came electronic media. At first, my book, like most others, was 
> still print-only. But the publisher sent perfect unwatermarked pdfs to all 
> the schools what adopted the book for use by students with special needs. 
> Wasn’t long before those pdfs made it to the Web. Then they had a electronic 
> version and a kindle version that students could rent for a semester or year. 
> The publisher, the largest in the business, was clueless about web security 
> and had no idea that Kindles are not secure. Very quickly, the book appeared 
> (with most of the other cs texts and various best sellers) on a Russian 
> website as a “public service.” End of paid sales.
> 
> The new edition is only available in electronic form and the publisher claims 
> it is only available on a secure site. I doubt anyone on this list believes 
> that.
> 
> Although I never in the past had issues with the publisher having the 
> copyright, which was pretty standard, I wish I had it now. Since there is no 
> hope of making significant royalties now (we used), my coauthor and I would 
> like to put the book out for free on our websites rather than having it 
> appear on various illegal Russian sites known to most students.
> 
> Personally, I no longer care about royalties but the long term issue I worry 
> about is why would any young person write a textbook. It’s a huge amount of 
> work and usually not something that in the academic world is valued as highly 
> as research papers and grant funding.
> 
> Ed
> ___
> 
> Ed Angel
> 
> Founding Director, Art, Research, Technology and Science Laboratory (ARTS Lab)
> Professor Emeritus of Computer Science, University of New Mexico
> 
> 1017 Sierra Pinon
> Santa Fe, NM 87501
> 505-984-0136 (home)   an...@cs.unm.edu 
> <mailto:an...@cs.unm.edu>
> 505-453-4944 (cell)   http://www.cs.unm.edu/~angel 
> <http://www.cs.unm.edu/~angel>
> 
>> On Jul 4, 2020, at 2:25 PM, Jochen Fromm > <mailto:j...@cas-group.net>> wrote:
>> 
>> Thanks. Yes, self-publishing is an option. I am looking for an official 
>> publisher mainly for one reason, namely that other scientists and 
>> researchers can cite it, since I still cling to the illusion that someone 
>> would actually do it. Normally self-published texts are not considered as 
>> reliable or trustworthy sources. I didn't expect that finding a decent 
>> publisher would be so difficult. 
>> 
>> -J.
>> 
>> 
>>  Original message 
>> From: Tom Johnson mailto:t...@jtjohnson.com>>
>> Date: 7/4/20 20:10 (GMT+01:00)
>> To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group > <mailto:friam@redfish.com>>
>> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Book publishing advice needed
>> 
>> Jochen:
>> The deal being offered strikes me as a bad deal.
>> 
>> Background:  I have been practicing and teaching about "Be Your Own 
>> Publisher" for nearly 15 years.  There are, in my opinion, some major 
>> problems with all publishers today.  It starts with control of the 
>> copyright.  I think YOU should want to maintain control of the copyright to 
>> your work.  It will depend on the contract, but many or most publishers will 
>> try to lock down the copyright in their favor for all -- ALL -- forms of 
>> your work in perpetuity and throughout the universe.  Sometimes quite 
>> literally.
>> 
>> Second, you should assume -- especially with a small publisher and you, not 
>> being as well known  as Stephen King or Daniel Steele  -- the publisher will 
>> do little if anything to promote your book beyond a mention in its catalog 
>> and, maybe, some promotional links on Amazon.  Given that, a 5 percent 
>> royalty should be seen as a con.
>> 
>> Third, given your computing experience, you should find it easy to format 
>> and produce the book yourself.  I have used Lulu.com <http://lulu.com/> for 
>> years.  It is especially

Re: [FRIAM] Book publishing advice needed

2020-07-05 Thread Sarbajit Roy

gt; Santa Fe, NM 87501
> 505-984-0136 (home)   an...@cs.unm.edu
> 505-453-4944 (cell)  http://www.cs.unm.edu/~angel
>
> On Jul 4, 2020, at 2:25 PM, Jochen Fromm  wrote:
>
> Thanks. Yes, self-publishing is an option. I am looking for an official
> publisher mainly for one reason, namely that other scientists and
> researchers can cite it, since I still cling to the illusion that someone
> would actually do it. Normally self-published texts are not considered as
> reliable or trustworthy sources. I didn't expect that finding a decent
> publisher would be so difficult.
>
> -J.
>
>
>  Original message 
> From: Tom Johnson 
> Date: 7/4/20 20:10 (GMT+01:00)
> To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group 
>
> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Book publishing advice needed
>
> Jochen:
> The deal being offered strikes me as a bad deal.
>
> Background:  I have been practicing and teaching about "Be Your Own
> Publisher" for nearly 15 years.  There are, in my opinion, some major
> problems with all publishers today.  It starts with control of the
> copyright.  I think YOU should want to maintain control of the copyright to
> your work.  It will depend on the contract, but many or most publishers
> will try to lock down the copyright in their favor for all -- ALL -- forms
> of your work in perpetuity and throughout the universe.  Sometimes quite
> literally.
>
> Second, you should assume -- especially with a small publisher and you,
> not being as well known  as Stephen King or Daniel Steele  -- the publisher
> will do little if anything to promote your book beyond a mention in its
> catalog and, maybe, some promotional links on Amazon.  Given that, a 5
> percent royalty should be seen as a con.
>
> Third, given your computing experience, you should find it easy to format
> and produce the book yourself.  I have used Lulu.com <http://lulu.com/> for
> years.  It is especially good if you want to have both hardback, paperback
> and PDF editions.  Again the advantages: you keep the copyright, you can
> set (and change) the prices and to a degree the royalties.  Also, Lulu and
> Amazon handle all the backend financial arrangements and administration and
> pay directly and quickly.  I also use a very good, high quality digital
> printer in Albuquerque for paperback editions.  It is Lithexcel
> <https://lithexcel.com/services/print.html>.  It handles all the printing
> (one copy to any number) quickly, along with all the fulfillment and
> accounting. The folks there will also, for only $25, set up your book in
> the Amazon inventory search engine.  Finally, there is Amazon's
> self-publishing arm
> <https://www.bookbaby.com/free-publishing-guides?utm_campaign=GOOSL31_source=SITELINK_medium=cpc=sNzCXe5z8_dc%7Cpcrid%7C238281756657%7Cpmt%7Ce%7Cpkw%7Camazon%20book%20publishing%7Cslid%7CcWU1oXIv%7Ctargetids%7Ckwd-362938383597%7Cgroupid%7C48812614458%7C=48812614458=kwd-362938383597=Cj0KCQjw0YD4BRD2ARIsAHwmKVnFci42apQ6vWUruvHuYX-FOum9VCF7bx83c_tSMHGoby8yylL_RTMaAjOEEALw_wcB>.
> While Amazon might take a bigger slice, the control over all aspects is in
> your hands.
>
> Here's the problem/challenge with all of these.  *YOU* have to do the
> marketing/publicity/promotion.  But so what?  If you today sign with any
> publisher of any size you will have to do the same thing.
>
> Hope this helps.  Feel free to contact me with questions.  Also you might
> want to see https://bit.ly/2ZvihKc
> Tom
>
> 
> Tom Johnson - t...@jtjohnson.com
> Institute for Analytic Journalism   -- Santa Fe, NM USA
> 505.577.6482(c)505.473.9646(h)
> *NM Foundation for Open Government* <http://nmfog.org/>
> *Check out It's The People's Data
> <https://www.facebook.com/pages/Its-The-Peoples-Data/1599854626919671>*
>
> 
>
>
>
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> On Fri, Jul 3, 2020 at 1:29 AM Jochen Fromm  wrote:
>
>> At one end of the spectrum there are the 5 big commercial publishers
>> Hachette, HarperCollins, Macmillan, Penguin Random House and Simon &
>> Schuster. They only publish stuff their agents select to make a lot of
>> money. There are also the big academic publishers like OUP, CUP, HUP and
>> MIT Press, which preferably publish strictly peer-reviewed content from
>> professors at Ivy League universities who made their PhD at the age of 20.
>>
>> At th

Re: [FRIAM] Book publishing advice needed

2020-07-05 Thread Stephen Guerin

I think it's just an access code to put in on the site. Haven't received it
yet. Though I've heard from the author :-)
___
stephen.gue...@simtable.com 
CEO, Simtable  http://www.simtable.com
1600 Lena St #D1, Santa Fe, NM 87505
office: (505)995-0206 mobile: (505)577-5828
twitter: @simtable
zoom.com/j/5055775828


On Sun, Jul 5, 2020 at 3:10 PM Tom Johnson  wrote:

> Steve:
> I, too, have not heard of the card you speak of.  Does the card contain
> the book?  If so, is it a flash drive type card or what?
> Tom
>
> 
> Tom Johnson - t...@jtjohnson.com
> Institute for Analytic Journalism   -- Santa Fe, NM USA
> 505.577.6482(c)505.473.9646(h)
> *NM Foundation for Open Government* 
> *Check out It's The People's Data
> *
>
> 
>
>
>
> 
>  Virus-free.
> www.avast.com
> 
> <#m_4189209916214447477_DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
>
> On Sat, Jul 4, 2020 at 5:47 PM Stephen Guerin 
> wrote:
>
>> Ed,
>>
>> I just ordered your 8th edition from Pearson
>> 
>> as I was blown away by the awesomeness of the new cover. :-)
>>
>> The confirmation email tells me a *physical* access card is being shipped
>> for my digital order.
>>
>> First time I've seen this - are physical access cards for digital
>> products common for textbooks these days? I just thought it was lazy
>> programming in the shopping cart requiring a physical address for a digital
>> product.
>>
>> I have an urgent need to use your book this weekend and can not wait for
>> delivery. I will be calling the author directly while I await arrival :-)
>> It actually has to do with implementing the cover and getting the
>> decentralized capture and rendering to realtime which hinges on realtime
>> depth-image based rendering using spherical light fields while skipping any
>> 3D cartesian intermediate shenanigans. Thank you for your help so far!
>>
>> -S
>>
>> PS, I also checked out Amazon and they appear to be the same with the
>> physical card.
>>
>> PPS: 8th edition isn't the default choice edition on Amazon or Pearson
>> when searching.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Jul 4, 2020 at 3:22 PM Edward Angel  wrote:
>>
>>> I’ve been a book author since 1972 and a textbook author since 1989. My
>>> computer graphics textbook has been the most popular book in the area for
>>> 20 years and just came out in its eighth edition with various editions
>>> being available in Chinese, Korean, Japanese and Russian. Sadly, the book
>>> business has changed over that time; changed in way that is bad for almost
>>> everyone, especially authors. I think you’re faced with a lot of bad
>>> choices. I hope some of the following will prove helpful. And if not
>>> helpful, at least interesting.
>>>
>>> Before I forget, you might enjoy reading of my adventures writing the
>>> first edition of my present textbook while on sabbatical in Venezuela,
>>> Ecuador, Hong Kong and Nepal. There’s a pointer to it on my home page
>>> www.cs.unm.edu/~angel
>>>
>>> When I had to pick a publisher, I knew the editors and  local book reps
>>> at Academic Press, Addison-Wesley, Prentice Hall and Benjamin/Cummings.
>>> They dominated the CS field and did so largely because they had editors who
>>> knew the field, excellent book reps who knew the needs of the faculty and
>>> students, a willingness to invest in a book, and in-house production. None
>>> of these exist anymore and, as Tom pointed out, you're largely on your own.
>>> It’s unfortunate if you care about how many copies get sold and your
>>> royalties. I have many friends who self-published in the past. It’s a lot
>>> of work either way but I prefer to put my effort into content and not
>>> type-setting or marketing. None of my self-published friends have ever sold
>>> many books.
>>>
>>> I had three excellent editors over 20 years. When I did my first
>>> edition, my editor hired a development editor at great expense to improve
>>> the quality of my writing. She worked with the CS faculty and grad students
>>> at Caltech and Stanford. It made a huge difference. Now almost none of
>>> these jobs exist within the publishers. All production is contracted out to
>>> the low bidders (art, typesetting, copy editing, etc) most of whom are in
>>> India. I no longer have an editor. There is one person working for the
>>> publusher with whom I communicate with to try to get things done correctly
>>> with the contractors.

Re: [FRIAM] Book publishing advice needed

2020-07-05 Thread Sarbajit Roy

Having printed books in India on behalf of European and Australian
academics, my experience is if the print run is 500+ then the cost of
offset printing (on fairly decent paper) and perfect binding a softcover
book with approx. 250 -300 pages is about $3.50 per copy shipped to the USA.

500 copies seems to be the crossover quantity for digital versus offset
printed books.

On Sun, Jul 5, 2020 at 6:33 PM Eric Charles 
wrote:

> Probably make digital copies accessible for $5, and whatever the
> equivalent these days is for other media.
>
> I say that... but probably free at this point,  thats what i would have
> started with
>
> At any rate,  it would be nice to have the copyright in principle.
>
>
>
> On Sat, Jul 4, 2020, 11:56 PM  wrote:
>
>> Eric,
>>
>>
>>
>> If you had the rights back, what would you do with them?
>>
>>
>>
>> N
>>
>>
>>
>> Nicholas Thompson
>>
>> Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology
>>
>> Clark University
>>
>> thompnicks...@gmail.com
>>
>> https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Friam  *On Behalf Of *Eric Charles
>> *Sent:* Saturday, July 4, 2020 8:55 PM
>> *To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <
>> friam@redfish.com>
>> *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] Book publishing advice needed
>>
>>
>>
>> Nick said " the contract should explicitly say that rights revert to the
>> author when the publisher no longer maintains the book in print and
>> promotes it."
>>
>>
>>
>> I handwrote that into the contract for the book on New Realism
>> (presumably based on a suggestion from you). Alas, that's an almost
>> nonsensical insertion at this point. The company will maintain a website
>> that lists the book indefinitely, with it available for purchase from
>> various marketplaces such as Amazon and Google books. So it is "maintained"
>> and "promoted", at no cost, in perpetuity, and is always available, because
>> books can now easily be printed on demand in single copy. I expect nowadays
>> it might make more sense to say something like: "If the book sells no
>> copies in X years, in any medium supported by the publisher, then the
>> rights revert to the author."
>>
>>
>>
>> It has been nine years, and the book still hasn't sold enough copies for
>> me to see a penny.
>>
>>
>>
>> If I were writing a novel I would definitely either self publish or find
>> a firm that focuses on online publishing, and which returns a definite
>> marketing plan in return for their cut (there are firms that focus on
>> kickstarting novels, or other internet forums, for example).
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ---
>>
>> Eric P. Charles, Ph.D.
>> Department of Justice - Personnel Psychologist
>>
>> American University - Adjunct Instructor
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Jul 4, 2020 at 4:46 PM  wrote:
>>
>> At the very list, the contract should explicitly say that rights revert
>> to the author when the publisher no longer maintains the book in print and
>> promotes it.  I often edited my magazine contracts to give only first
>> rights.  I agree with Tom, that copyright should stay with the author.
>>
>>
>>
>> N
>>
>>
>>
>> Nicholas Thompson
>>
>> Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology
>>
>> Clark University
>>
>> thompnicks...@gmail.com
>>
>> https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Friam  *On Behalf Of *Tom Johnson
>> *Sent:* Saturday, July 4, 2020 2:32 PM
>> *To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <
>> friam@redfish.com>
>> *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] Book publishing advice needed
>>
>>
>>
>> Another advantage of self-publishing is that you retain the copyright.
>> Ergo, you can license it to a publisher for an updated edition or just
>> distribution.
>>
>> Tom
>>
>>
>> 
>> Tom Johnson - t...@jtjohnson.com
>> Institute for Analytic Journalism   -- Santa Fe, NM USA
>> 505.577.6482(c)505.473.9646(h)
>> *NM Foundation for Open Government* <http://nmfog.org>
>> *Check out It's The People's Data
>> <https://www.facebook.com/pages/Its-The-Peoples-Data/1599854626919671>*
>>
>>
>> ==

Re: [FRIAM] Book publishing advice needed

Still do.


Tom Johnson - t...@jtjohnson.com
Institute for Analytic Journalism   -- Santa Fe, NM USA
505.577.6482(c)505.473.9646(h)
*NM Foundation for Open Government* <http://nmfog.org>
*Check out It's The People's Data
<https://www.facebook.com/pages/Its-The-Peoples-Data/1599854626919671>*




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On Sun, Jul 5, 2020 at 3:21 PM  wrote:

> We led a charmed life, let’s face it.
>
>
>
> n
>
>
>
> Nicholas Thompson
>
> Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology
>
> Clark University
>
> thompnicks...@gmail.com
>
> https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Friam  *On Behalf Of *Tom Johnson
> *Sent:* Sunday, July 5, 2020 3:13 PM
> *To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <
> friam@redfish.com>
> *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] Book publishing advice needed
>
>
>
> Nick: The advantage of being in a journalism dept. was that I got battle
> ribbons for publishing in the non-academic publications that also paid me
> for that work.  Hell, they even paid expenses.  A semi-double-dipping, one
> would think.  Though I did publish in a few academic journals, usually upon
> invitation, that was never my main focus.
>
> Tom
>
>
> 
> Tom Johnson - t...@jtjohnson.com
> Institute for Analytic Journalism   -- Santa Fe, NM USA
> 505.577.6482(c)505.473.9646(h)
> *NM Foundation for Open Government* <http://nmfog.org>
> *Check out It's The People's Data
> <https://www.facebook.com/pages/Its-The-Peoples-Data/1599854626919671>*
>
>
> 
>
>
>
>
>
>
> <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email_source=link_campaign=sig-email_content=webmail_term=icon>
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>
>
> On Sun, Jul 5, 2020 at 3:07 PM  wrote:
>
> Hi, Tom, I take that to be a rhetorical question.
>
>
>
> However, in my experience, no publisher has ever failed to give me back a
> copyright when I asked for it, so I have never had to put the concept to
> the test.
>
>
>
> If you ask me to express my honest feelings in the matter I would say that
> I was overwhelmingly lucky to be paid by my university to write, and to the
> extent that that writing brought me income beyond my salary, I was doubly
> and unreasonably blessed.
>
>
>
> Nick
>
>
>
> Nicholas Thompson
>
> Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology
>
> Clark University
>
> thompnicks...@gmail.com
>
> https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Friam  *On Behalf Of *Tom Johnson
> *Sent:* Sunday, July 5, 2020 3:01 PM
> *To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <
> friam@redfish.com>
> *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] Book publishing advice needed
>
>
>
> Nick: How and who is going to define "no longer promotes it."?
>
> t
>
>
> 
> Tom Johnson - t...@jtjohnson.com
> Institute for Analytic Journalism   -- Santa Fe, NM USA
> 505.577.6482(c)505.473.9646(h)
> *NM Foundation for Open Government* <http://nmfog.org>
> *Check out It's The People's Data
> <https://www.facebook.com/pages/Its-The-Peoples-Data/1599854626919671>*
>
>
> 
>
>
>
>
>
> [image: Image removed by sender.]
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>
>
> On Sat, Jul 4, 2020 at 2:46 PM  wrote:
>
> At the very list, the contract should explicitly say that rights revert to
> the author when the publisher no longer maintains the book in print and
> promotes it.  I often edited my magazine contracts to give only first
> rights.  I agree with Tom, that copyright should stay with the author.
>
>
>
> N
>
>
>
> Nicholas Thompson
>

Re: [FRIAM] Book publishing advice needed

We led a charmed life, let’s face it. 

 

n

 

Nicholas Thompson

Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology

Clark University

 <mailto:thompnicks...@gmail.com> thompnicks...@gmail.com

 <https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/> 
https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/

 

 

From: Friam  On Behalf Of Tom Johnson
Sent: Sunday, July 5, 2020 3:13 PM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group 
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Book publishing advice needed

 

Nick: The advantage of being in a journalism dept. was that I got battle 
ribbons for publishing in the non-academic publications that also paid me for 
that work.  Hell, they even paid expenses.  A semi-double-dipping, one would 
think.  Though I did publish in a few academic journals, usually upon 
invitation, that was never my main focus.

Tom 




Tom Johnson - t...@jtjohnson.com <mailto:t...@jtjohnson.com> 
Institute for Analytic Journalism   -- Santa Fe, NM USA
505.577.6482(c)505.473.9646(h)
 <http://nmfog.org> NM Foundation for Open Government
Check out It's The People's Data 
<https://www.facebook.com/pages/Its-The-Peoples-Data/1599854626919671>  




 

 


 
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On Sun, Jul 5, 2020 at 3:07 PM mailto:thompnicks...@gmail.com> > wrote:

Hi, Tom, I take that to be a rhetorical question.  

 

However, in my experience, no publisher has ever failed to give me back a 
copyright when I asked for it, so I have never had to put the concept to the 
test.

 

If you ask me to express my honest feelings in the matter I would say that I 
was overwhelmingly lucky to be paid by my university to write, and to the 
extent that that writing brought me income beyond my salary, I was doubly and 
unreasonably blessed. 

 

Nick 

 

Nicholas Thompson

Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology

Clark University

 <mailto:thompnicks...@gmail.com> thompnicks...@gmail.com

 <https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/> 
https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/

 

 

From: Friam mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com> > On 
Behalf Of Tom Johnson
Sent: Sunday, July 5, 2020 3:01 PM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group mailto:friam@redfish.com> >
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Book publishing advice needed

 

Nick: How and who is going to define "no longer promotes it."?

t




Tom Johnson - t...@jtjohnson.com <mailto:t...@jtjohnson.com> 
Institute for Analytic Journalism   -- Santa Fe, NM USA
505.577.6482(c)505.473.9646(h)
 <http://nmfog.org> NM Foundation for Open Government
Check out It's The People's Data 
<https://www.facebook.com/pages/Its-The-Peoples-Data/1599854626919671>  




 

 


 
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On Sat, Jul 4, 2020 at 2:46 PM mailto:thompnicks...@gmail.com> > wrote:

At the very list, the contract should explicitly say that rights revert to the 
author when the publisher no longer maintains the book in print and promotes 
it.  I often edited my magazine contracts to give only first rights.  I agree 
with Tom, that copyright should stay with the author. 

 

N

 

Nicholas Thompson

Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology

Clark University

 <mailto:thompnicks...@gmail.com> thompnicks...@gmail.com

 <https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/> 
https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/

 

 

From: Friam mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com> > On 
Behalf Of Tom Johnson
Sent: Saturday, July 4, 2020 2:32 PM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group mailto:friam@redfish.com> >
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Book publishing advice needed

 

Another advantage of self-publishing is that you retain the copyright.  Ergo, 
you can license it to a publisher for an updated edition or just distribution.

Tom




Tom Johnson - t...@jtjohnson.com <mailto:t...@jtjohnson.com> 
Institute for Analytic Journalism   -- Santa Fe, NM USA
505.577.6482(c)505.473.9646(h)
 <http://nmfog.org> NM Foundation for Open Government
Check out It's The People's Data 
<https://www.facebook.com/pages/Its-The-Peoples-Data/1599854626919671>  


==

Re: [FRIAM] Book publishing advice needed

Nick: The advantage of being in a journalism dept. was that I got battle
ribbons for publishing in the non-academic publications that also paid me
for that work.  Hell, they even paid expenses.  A semi-double-dipping, one
would think.  Though I did publish in a few academic journals, usually upon
invitation, that was never my main focus.
Tom


Tom Johnson - t...@jtjohnson.com
Institute for Analytic Journalism   -- Santa Fe, NM USA
505.577.6482(c)505.473.9646(h)
*NM Foundation for Open Government* <http://nmfog.org>
*Check out It's The People's Data
<https://www.facebook.com/pages/Its-The-Peoples-Data/1599854626919671>*




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On Sun, Jul 5, 2020 at 3:07 PM  wrote:

> Hi, Tom, I take that to be a rhetorical question.
>
>
>
> However, in my experience, no publisher has ever failed to give me back a
> copyright when I asked for it, so I have never had to put the concept to
> the test.
>
>
>
> If you ask me to express my honest feelings in the matter I would say that
> I was overwhelmingly lucky to be paid by my university to write, and to the
> extent that that writing brought me income beyond my salary, I was doubly
> and unreasonably blessed.
>
>
>
> Nick
>
>
>
> Nicholas Thompson
>
> Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology
>
> Clark University
>
> thompnicks...@gmail.com
>
> https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Friam  *On Behalf Of *Tom Johnson
> *Sent:* Sunday, July 5, 2020 3:01 PM
> *To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <
> friam@redfish.com>
> *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] Book publishing advice needed
>
>
>
> Nick: How and who is going to define "no longer promotes it."?
>
> t
>
>
> 
> Tom Johnson - t...@jtjohnson.com
> Institute for Analytic Journalism   -- Santa Fe, NM USA
> 505.577.6482(c)505.473.9646(h)
> *NM Foundation for Open Government* <http://nmfog.org>
> *Check out It's The People's Data
> <https://www.facebook.com/pages/Its-The-Peoples-Data/1599854626919671>*
>
>
> 
>
>
>
>
>
> [image: Image removed by sender.]
> <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email_source=link_campaign=sig-email_content=webmail_term=icon>
>
> Virus-free. www.avast.com
> <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email_source=link_campaign=sig-email_content=webmail_term=link>
>
>
>
> On Sat, Jul 4, 2020 at 2:46 PM  wrote:
>
> At the very list, the contract should explicitly say that rights revert to
> the author when the publisher no longer maintains the book in print and
> promotes it.  I often edited my magazine contracts to give only first
> rights.  I agree with Tom, that copyright should stay with the author.
>
>
>
> N
>
>
>
> Nicholas Thompson
>
> Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology
>
> Clark University
>
> thompnicks...@gmail.com
>
> https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Friam  *On Behalf Of *Tom Johnson
> *Sent:* Saturday, July 4, 2020 2:32 PM
> *To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <
> friam@redfish.com>
> *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] Book publishing advice needed
>
>
>
> Another advantage of self-publishing is that you retain the copyright.
> Ergo, you can license it to a publisher for an updated edition or just
> distribution.
>
> Tom
>
>
> 
> Tom Johnson - t...@jtjohnson.com
> Institute for Analytic Journalism   -- Santa Fe, NM USA
> 505.577.6482(c)505.473.9646(h)
> *NM Foundation for Open Government* <http://nmfog.org>
> *Check out It's The People's Data
> <https://www.facebook.com/pages/Its-The-Peoples-Data/1599854626919671>*
>
>
> 
>
>
>
>
>
> [image: Image removed by sender.]
> <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email_source=link_campaign=sig-email_content=webmail_term=icon>
>
> Virus-free. www.avast.com
> <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email_source=link_campaign=sig-email_content=webmail_term=link>
>
>
>
> On Sat, Jul 4, 2020 at 2:

Re: [FRIAM] Book publishing advice needed

Steve:
I, too, have not heard of the card you speak of.  Does the card contain the
book?  If so, is it a flash drive type card or what?
Tom


Tom Johnson - t...@jtjohnson.com
Institute for Analytic Journalism   -- Santa Fe, NM USA
505.577.6482(c)505.473.9646(h)
*NM Foundation for Open Government* 
*Check out It's The People's Data
*





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On Sat, Jul 4, 2020 at 5:47 PM Stephen Guerin 
wrote:

> Ed,
>
> I just ordered your 8th edition from Pearson
> 
> as I was blown away by the awesomeness of the new cover. :-)
>
> The confirmation email tells me a *physical* access card is being shipped
> for my digital order.
>
> First time I've seen this - are physical access cards for digital products
> common for textbooks these days? I just thought it was lazy programming in
> the shopping cart requiring a physical address for a digital product.
>
> I have an urgent need to use your book this weekend and can not wait for
> delivery. I will be calling the author directly while I await arrival :-)
> It actually has to do with implementing the cover and getting the
> decentralized capture and rendering to realtime which hinges on realtime
> depth-image based rendering using spherical light fields while skipping any
> 3D cartesian intermediate shenanigans. Thank you for your help so far!
>
> -S
>
> PS, I also checked out Amazon and they appear to be the same with the
> physical card.
>
> PPS: 8th edition isn't the default choice edition on Amazon or Pearson
> when searching.
>
>
>
>
> On Sat, Jul 4, 2020 at 3:22 PM Edward Angel  wrote:
>
>> I’ve been a book author since 1972 and a textbook author since 1989. My
>> computer graphics textbook has been the most popular book in the area for
>> 20 years and just came out in its eighth edition with various editions
>> being available in Chinese, Korean, Japanese and Russian. Sadly, the book
>> business has changed over that time; changed in way that is bad for almost
>> everyone, especially authors. I think you’re faced with a lot of bad
>> choices. I hope some of the following will prove helpful. And if not
>> helpful, at least interesting.
>>
>> Before I forget, you might enjoy reading of my adventures writing the
>> first edition of my present textbook while on sabbatical in Venezuela,
>> Ecuador, Hong Kong and Nepal. There’s a pointer to it on my home page
>> www.cs.unm.edu/~angel
>>
>> When I had to pick a publisher, I knew the editors and  local book reps
>> at Academic Press, Addison-Wesley, Prentice Hall and Benjamin/Cummings.
>> They dominated the CS field and did so largely because they had editors who
>> knew the field, excellent book reps who knew the needs of the faculty and
>> students, a willingness to invest in a book, and in-house production. None
>> of these exist anymore and, as Tom pointed out, you're largely on your own.
>> It’s unfortunate if you care about how many copies get sold and your
>> royalties. I have many friends who self-published in the past. It’s a lot
>> of work either way but I prefer to put my effort into content and not
>> type-setting or marketing. None of my self-published friends have ever sold
>> many books.
>>
>> I had three excellent editors over 20 years. When I did my first edition,
>> my editor hired a development editor at great expense to improve the
>> quality of my writing. She worked with the CS faculty and grad students at
>> Caltech and Stanford. It made a huge difference. Now almost none of these
>> jobs exist within the publishers. All production is contracted out to the
>> low bidders (art, typesetting, copy editing, etc) most of whom are in
>> India. I no longer have an editor. There is one person working for the
>> publusher with whom I communicate with to try to get things done correctly
>> with the contractors. This last edition has been a long painful experience.
>>
>> So what happened? Books were always expensive for students, especially
>> when sold through college bookstores. Then used book sellers appeared and
>> Asian students started importing low cost Asian versions of the standard
>> textbooks. Under US copyright laws, both are legal. The publishers
>> responded by upping prices which reduced sales even more.
>>
>> And then came electronic media. At first, my book, like most others, was
>> still print-only. But the publisher sent perfect unwatermarked pdfs to all
>>

Re: [FRIAM] Book publishing advice needed

Hi, Tom, I take that to be a rhetorical question.  

 

However, in my experience, no publisher has ever failed to give me back a 
copyright when I asked for it, so I have never had to put the concept to the 
test.

 

If you ask me to express my honest feelings in the matter I would say that I 
was overwhelmingly lucky to be paid by my university to write, and to the 
extent that that writing brought me income beyond my salary, I was doubly and 
unreasonably blessed. 

 

Nick 

 

Nicholas Thompson

Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology

Clark University

 <mailto:thompnicks...@gmail.com> thompnicks...@gmail.com

 <https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/> 
https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/

 

 

From: Friam  On Behalf Of Tom Johnson
Sent: Sunday, July 5, 2020 3:01 PM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group 
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Book publishing advice needed

 

Nick: How and who is going to define "no longer promotes it."?

t




Tom Johnson - t...@jtjohnson.com <mailto:t...@jtjohnson.com> 
Institute for Analytic Journalism   -- Santa Fe, NM USA
505.577.6482(c)505.473.9646(h)
 <http://nmfog.org> NM Foundation for Open Government
Check out It's The People's Data 
<https://www.facebook.com/pages/Its-The-Peoples-Data/1599854626919671>  




 

 


 
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On Sat, Jul 4, 2020 at 2:46 PM mailto:thompnicks...@gmail.com> > wrote:

At the very list, the contract should explicitly say that rights revert to the 
author when the publisher no longer maintains the book in print and promotes 
it.  I often edited my magazine contracts to give only first rights.  I agree 
with Tom, that copyright should stay with the author. 

 

N

 

Nicholas Thompson

Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology

Clark University

 <mailto:thompnicks...@gmail.com> thompnicks...@gmail.com

 <https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/> 
https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/

 

 

From: Friam mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com> > On 
Behalf Of Tom Johnson
Sent: Saturday, July 4, 2020 2:32 PM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group mailto:friam@redfish.com> >
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Book publishing advice needed

 

Another advantage of self-publishing is that you retain the copyright.  Ergo, 
you can license it to a publisher for an updated edition or just distribution.

Tom




Tom Johnson - t...@jtjohnson.com <mailto:t...@jtjohnson.com> 
Institute for Analytic Journalism   -- Santa Fe, NM USA
505.577.6482(c)505.473.9646(h)
 <http://nmfog.org> NM Foundation for Open Government
Check out It's The People's Data 
<https://www.facebook.com/pages/Its-The-Peoples-Data/1599854626919671>  




 

 


 
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On Sat, Jul 4, 2020 at 2:25 PM Jochen Fromm mailto:j...@cas-group.net> > wrote:

Thanks. Yes, self-publishing is an option. I am looking for an official 
publisher mainly for one reason, namely that other scientists and researchers 
can cite it, since I still cling to the illusion that someone would actually do 
it. Normally self-published texts are not considered as reliable or trustworthy 
sources. I didn't expect that finding a decent publisher would be so difficult. 

 

-J.

 

 

 Original message 

From: Tom Johnson mailto:t...@jtjohnson.com> > 

Date: 7/4/20 20:10 (GMT+01:00) 

To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group mailto:friam@redfish.com> > 

Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Book publishing advice needed 

 

Jochen:

The deal being offered strikes me as a bad deal.

 

Background:  I have been practicing and teaching about "Be Your Own Publisher" 
for nearly 15 years.  There are, in my opinion, some major problems with all 
publishers today.  It starts with control of the copyright.  I think YOU should 
want to maintain control of the copyright to your work.  It will depend on the 
contract, but many or most publishers will try to lock down the copyright in 
their favor for all -- ALL -- forms of your work in perpetuity and throughout 
the universe.  Sometimes quite literally.

 

Second, you should assume -- especially with a small publisher and you, not 
bein

Re: [FRIAM] Book publishing advice needed

Nick: How and who is going to define "no longer promotes it."?
t


Tom Johnson - t...@jtjohnson.com
Institute for Analytic Journalism   -- Santa Fe, NM USA
505.577.6482(c)505.473.9646(h)
*NM Foundation for Open Government* <http://nmfog.org>
*Check out It's The People's Data
<https://www.facebook.com/pages/Its-The-Peoples-Data/1599854626919671>*




<https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email_source=link_campaign=sig-email_content=webmail_term=icon>
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<#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>

On Sat, Jul 4, 2020 at 2:46 PM  wrote:

> At the very list, the contract should explicitly say that rights revert to
> the author when the publisher no longer maintains the book in print and
> promotes it.  I often edited my magazine contracts to give only first
> rights.  I agree with Tom, that copyright should stay with the author.
>
>
>
> N
>
>
>
> Nicholas Thompson
>
> Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology
>
> Clark University
>
> thompnicks...@gmail.com
>
> https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Friam  *On Behalf Of *Tom Johnson
> *Sent:* Saturday, July 4, 2020 2:32 PM
> *To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <
> friam@redfish.com>
> *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] Book publishing advice needed
>
>
>
> Another advantage of self-publishing is that you retain the copyright.
> Ergo, you can license it to a publisher for an updated edition or just
> distribution.
>
> Tom
>
>
> 
> Tom Johnson - t...@jtjohnson.com
> Institute for Analytic Journalism   -- Santa Fe, NM USA
> 505.577.6482(c)505.473.9646(h)
> *NM Foundation for Open Government* <http://nmfog.org>
> *Check out It's The People's Data
> <https://www.facebook.com/pages/Its-The-Peoples-Data/1599854626919671>*
>
>
> 
>
>
>
>
>
>
> <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email_source=link_campaign=sig-email_content=webmail_term=icon>
>
> Virus-free. www.avast.com
> <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email_source=link_campaign=sig-email_content=webmail_term=link>
>
>
>
> On Sat, Jul 4, 2020 at 2:25 PM Jochen Fromm  wrote:
>
> Thanks. Yes, self-publishing is an option. I am looking for an official
> publisher mainly for one reason, namely that other scientists and
> researchers can cite it, since I still cling to the illusion that someone
> would actually do it. Normally self-published texts are not considered as
> reliable or trustworthy sources. I didn't expect that finding a decent
> publisher would be so difficult.
>
>
>
> -J.
>
>
>
>
>
>  Original message 
>
> From: Tom Johnson 
>
> Date: 7/4/20 20:10 (GMT+01:00)
>
> To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group 
>
>
> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Book publishing advice needed
>
>
>
> Jochen:
>
> The deal being offered strikes me as a bad deal.
>
>
>
> Background:  I have been practicing and teaching about "Be Your Own
> Publisher" for nearly 15 years.  There are, in my opinion, some major
> problems with all publishers today.  It starts with control of the
> copyright.  I think YOU should want to maintain control of the copyright to
> your work.  It will depend on the contract, but many or most publishers
> will try to lock down the copyright in their favor for all -- ALL -- forms
> of your work in perpetuity and throughout the universe.  Sometimes quite
> literally.
>
>
>
> Second, you should assume -- especially with a small publisher and you,
> not being as well known  as Stephen King or Daniel Steele  -- the publisher
> will do little if anything to promote your book beyond a mention in its
> catalog and, maybe, some promotional links on Amazon.  Given that, a 5
> percent royalty should be seen as a con.
>
>
>
> Third, given your computing experience, you should find it easy to format
> and produce the book yourself.  I have used Lulu.com for years.  It is
> especially good if you want to have both hardback, paperback and PDF
> editions.  Again the advantages: you keep the copyright, you can set (and
> change) the prices and to a degree the royalties.  Also, Lulu and Amazon
> handle all the backend financial arrangements and administration and pay
> directly and quickly.  I also use a very good, high

Re: [FRIAM] Book publishing advice needed

2020-07-05 Thread Jochen Fromm

Thanks, looks promising. I believe the promotion is misleading, though. It 
seems to be a kind of lottery because normally Open Access publishing at 
Springer costs about 15.000 $. Who I is willing to spend so much money? The 
system is broken. 
https://www.springernature.com/gp/open-research/journals-books/books/pricing-J.
 Original message From: Russ Abbott  
Date: 7/5/20  19:03  (GMT+01:00) To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity 
Coffee Group  Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Book publishing advice 
needed I haven't been following this thread, so this may already have been 
mentioned. But in case it hasn't: Springer has a free-book publishing 
promotion.  -- Russ Abbott                                       Professor, 
Computer ScienceCalifornia State University, Los AngelesOn Sun, Jul 5, 2020 at 
9:35 AM  wrote:Russ, Jochen, 

Thanks for what you wrote, below.  I have never managed a book-length
exposition of my ideas, so I particularly appreciate what you have
accomplished.  Perhaps the incentives are coming to be where they should be.
Why should it be that others pay to be infected with my ideas?  I don't
share Glen's distaste for books, as opposed to papers.  I think I have
learned the most, over the years, from lengthy arguments, such as Williams's
NATURAL SELECTION AND ADAPTATION and Sean Carroll's ENDLESS FORMS MOST
BEAUTIFUL or even (I hate to admit it) Dawkins's THE SELFISH GENE, where the
author has space to organize the papers we all know from a well developed
point of view, or books like THE BEAK OF THE FINCH,  or Waldrop's
COMPLEXITY, which present biographies of a research program.   I grant that
leaning heavily on such works for one's understanding of the world makes one
vulnerable  And I would hate to live in a world in which everybody I talked
to was reading only such works.  (I need the Glens of the world.)  But
still, I think, such works give a perspective that cannot be obtained in any
other way.  

So keep writing them!

Nick 
Nicholas Thompson
Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology
Clark University
thompnicks...@gmail.com
https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/

-Original Message-
From: Friam  On Behalf Of Russell Standish
Sent: Sunday, July 5, 2020 3:48 AM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group 
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Book publishing advice needed

Being self-published hasn't stopped my book "Theory of Nothing" from being
cited. According to Google Scholar, it has 22 citations, 9th on my list in
terms of citation count, just after "Why Occams Razor", a peer reviewed
paper on similar topics. It got a bit of a boost from Max Tegmark's book, as
he singled it out as inspiration, kind of ironic when it was one of Max's
"crazy papers" that inspired me to write "Why Occams Razor" and then "Theory
of Nothing".

I think you need to have a reason to publish a book. Making money is not one
them - almost nobody makes money from writing books. Vanity publications
("it looks good on the CV") is another one to avoid. Best bet is if you have
a story or a topic that needs telling, and you think would be interesting to
other people, then go for it. Marketing then becomes telling other people
about it, advancing arguments from it in fora like this. With a bit of luck,
it goes viral.

One good reason for writing academic books is that it gives you expanded
scope to explain your ideas more fully, and in less technically forbidding
terms. Allows you to expand your readership beyond the narrow circle reading
your peer revieed articles. But you probably want those peer reviewed
articles to back up/draw upon your book work. That's probably the reason why
old academics write books, and young ones write papers.

In my case, I've self-published 3 books so far: "Theory of Nothing", which
has sold over 1000 copies, and perhaps 2-3 times as many free downloads from
my website and the usual pirate websites, but in no way does the royalties
cover the time I put into it (unless being paid less than a Calcutta
rickshaw driver was a career ambition); "Amoeba's Secret", a translation of
a semi-autobiography by Bruno Marchal, which was about the clearest
exposition he gave of his ideas, and "Magic Cottage", an Anthology of my
son's writing, which was quite exquisite, and sadly something he's not
really doing now. Magic Cottage proved to be more of a vanity publication
than I thought it would be - but partly because he never took up my
suggestion of leaving a copy around his college room, now apartment, where
it could act as a conversation starter. I also envisaged him using the book
when going for jobs that might require writing skills, but it seems he
hasn't needed to do that to date.

Cheers

On Sat, Jul 04, 2020 at 10:25:03PM +0200, Jochen Fromm wrote:
> Thanks. Yes, self-publishing is an option. I am looking for an 
> official publisher mainly for one reason, namely that othe

Re: [FRIAM] Book publishing advice needed

2020-07-05 Thread Russ Abbott

I haven't been following this thread, so this may already have been
mentioned. But in case it hasn't: Springer has a free-book publishing
<https://www.springernature.com/gp/researchers/campaigns/celebrating-1000-open-access-books/promotion?sap-outbound-id=43C5094BD42094009CD4B6B1EB91145503C604AB_source=hybris-campaign_medium=email_campaign=000_RPR7473_003054_BBKK_AWA_CE02_GL_1000_OA_books2_Springer_content=EN_internal_9962_20200705=42010A0550671EDA9BA9C3DA42DDB9EF>
promotion.

-- Russ Abbott
Professor, Computer Science
California State University, Los Angeles


On Sun, Jul 5, 2020 at 9:35 AM  wrote:

> Russ, Jochen,
>
> Thanks for what you wrote, below.  I have never managed a book-length
> exposition of my ideas, so I particularly appreciate what you have
> accomplished.  Perhaps the incentives are coming to be where they should
> be.
> Why should it be that others pay to be infected with my ideas?  I don't
> share Glen's distaste for books, as opposed to papers.  I think I have
> learned the most, over the years, from lengthy arguments, such as
> Williams's
> NATURAL SELECTION AND ADAPTATION and Sean Carroll's ENDLESS FORMS MOST
> BEAUTIFUL or even (I hate to admit it) Dawkins's THE SELFISH GENE, where
> the
> author has space to organize the papers we all know from a well developed
> point of view, or books like THE BEAK OF THE FINCH,  or Waldrop's
> COMPLEXITY, which present biographies of a research program.   I grant that
> leaning heavily on such works for one's understanding of the world makes
> one
> vulnerable  And I would hate to live in a world in which everybody I talked
> to was reading only such works.  (I need the Glens of the world.)  But
> still, I think, such works give a perspective that cannot be obtained in
> any
> other way.
>
> So keep writing them!
>
> Nick
> Nicholas Thompson
> Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology
> Clark University
> thompnicks...@gmail.com
> https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Friam  On Behalf Of Russell Standish
> Sent: Sunday, July 5, 2020 3:48 AM
> To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group 
> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Book publishing advice needed
>
> Being self-published hasn't stopped my book "Theory of Nothing" from being
> cited. According to Google Scholar, it has 22 citations, 9th on my list in
> terms of citation count, just after "Why Occams Razor", a peer reviewed
> paper on similar topics. It got a bit of a boost from Max Tegmark's book,
> as
> he singled it out as inspiration, kind of ironic when it was one of Max's
> "crazy papers" that inspired me to write "Why Occams Razor" and then
> "Theory
> of Nothing".
>
> I think you need to have a reason to publish a book. Making money is not
> one
> them - almost nobody makes money from writing books. Vanity publications
> ("it looks good on the CV") is another one to avoid. Best bet is if you
> have
> a story or a topic that needs telling, and you think would be interesting
> to
> other people, then go for it. Marketing then becomes telling other people
> about it, advancing arguments from it in fora like this. With a bit of
> luck,
> it goes viral.
>
> One good reason for writing academic books is that it gives you expanded
> scope to explain your ideas more fully, and in less technically forbidding
> terms. Allows you to expand your readership beyond the narrow circle
> reading
> your peer revieed articles. But you probably want those peer reviewed
> articles to back up/draw upon your book work. That's probably the reason
> why
> old academics write books, and young ones write papers.
>
> In my case, I've self-published 3 books so far: "Theory of Nothing", which
> has sold over 1000 copies, and perhaps 2-3 times as many free downloads
> from
> my website and the usual pirate websites, but in no way does the royalties
> cover the time I put into it (unless being paid less than a Calcutta
> rickshaw driver was a career ambition); "Amoeba's Secret", a translation of
> a semi-autobiography by Bruno Marchal, which was about the clearest
> exposition he gave of his ideas, and "Magic Cottage", an Anthology of my
> son's writing, which was quite exquisite, and sadly something he's not
> really doing now. Magic Cottage proved to be more of a vanity publication
> than I thought it would be - but partly because he never took up my
> suggestion of leaving a copy around his college room, now apartment, where
> it could act as a conversation starter. I also envisaged him using the book
> when going for jobs that might require writing skills, but it seems he
> hasn't needed to do that to date.
&

Re: [FRIAM] Book publishing advice needed

Russ, Jochen, 

Thanks for what you wrote, below.  I have never managed a book-length
exposition of my ideas, so I particularly appreciate what you have
accomplished.  Perhaps the incentives are coming to be where they should be.
Why should it be that others pay to be infected with my ideas?  I don't
share Glen's distaste for books, as opposed to papers.  I think I have
learned the most, over the years, from lengthy arguments, such as Williams's
NATURAL SELECTION AND ADAPTATION and Sean Carroll's ENDLESS FORMS MOST
BEAUTIFUL or even (I hate to admit it) Dawkins's THE SELFISH GENE, where the
author has space to organize the papers we all know from a well developed
point of view, or books like THE BEAK OF THE FINCH,  or Waldrop's
COMPLEXITY, which present biographies of a research program.   I grant that
leaning heavily on such works for one's understanding of the world makes one
vulnerable  And I would hate to live in a world in which everybody I talked
to was reading only such works.  (I need the Glens of the world.)  But
still, I think, such works give a perspective that cannot be obtained in any
other way.  

So keep writing them!

Nick 
Nicholas Thompson
Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology
Clark University
thompnicks...@gmail.com
https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/

-Original Message-
From: Friam  On Behalf Of Russell Standish
Sent: Sunday, July 5, 2020 3:48 AM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group 
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Book publishing advice needed

Being self-published hasn't stopped my book "Theory of Nothing" from being
cited. According to Google Scholar, it has 22 citations, 9th on my list in
terms of citation count, just after "Why Occams Razor", a peer reviewed
paper on similar topics. It got a bit of a boost from Max Tegmark's book, as
he singled it out as inspiration, kind of ironic when it was one of Max's
"crazy papers" that inspired me to write "Why Occams Razor" and then "Theory
of Nothing".

I think you need to have a reason to publish a book. Making money is not one
them - almost nobody makes money from writing books. Vanity publications
("it looks good on the CV") is another one to avoid. Best bet is if you have
a story or a topic that needs telling, and you think would be interesting to
other people, then go for it. Marketing then becomes telling other people
about it, advancing arguments from it in fora like this. With a bit of luck,
it goes viral.

One good reason for writing academic books is that it gives you expanded
scope to explain your ideas more fully, and in less technically forbidding
terms. Allows you to expand your readership beyond the narrow circle reading
your peer revieed articles. But you probably want those peer reviewed
articles to back up/draw upon your book work. That's probably the reason why
old academics write books, and young ones write papers.

In my case, I've self-published 3 books so far: "Theory of Nothing", which
has sold over 1000 copies, and perhaps 2-3 times as many free downloads from
my website and the usual pirate websites, but in no way does the royalties
cover the time I put into it (unless being paid less than a Calcutta
rickshaw driver was a career ambition); "Amoeba's Secret", a translation of
a semi-autobiography by Bruno Marchal, which was about the clearest
exposition he gave of his ideas, and "Magic Cottage", an Anthology of my
son's writing, which was quite exquisite, and sadly something he's not
really doing now. Magic Cottage proved to be more of a vanity publication
than I thought it would be - but partly because he never took up my
suggestion of leaving a copy around his college room, now apartment, where
it could act as a conversation starter. I also envisaged him using the book
when going for jobs that might require writing skills, but it seems he
hasn't needed to do that to date.

Cheers

On Sat, Jul 04, 2020 at 10:25:03PM +0200, Jochen Fromm wrote:
> Thanks. Yes, self-publishing is an option. I am looking for an 
> official publisher mainly for one reason, namely that other scientists 
> and researchers can cite it, since I still cling to the illusion that 
> someone would actually do it. Normally self-published texts are not 
> considered as reliable or trustworthy sources. I didn't expect that 
> finding a decent publisher would be so difficult.
> 
> -J.
> 
> 
>  Original message 
> From: Tom Johnson 
> Date: 7/4/20 20:10 (GMT+01:00)
> To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group 
> 
> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Book publishing advice needed
> 
> Jochen:
> The deal being offered strikes me as a bad deal.
> 
> Background:  I have been practicing and teaching about "Be Your Own
Publisher"
> for nearly 15 years.  There are, in my opinion, some major problems 
> with all publishers today.  It starts with

Re: [FRIAM] Book publishing advice needed

2020-07-05 Thread Eric Charles

Probably make digital copies accessible for $5, and whatever the equivalent
these days is for other media.

I say that... but probably free at this point,  thats what i would have
started with

At any rate,  it would be nice to have the copyright in principle.



On Sat, Jul 4, 2020, 11:56 PM  wrote:

> Eric,
>
>
>
> If you had the rights back, what would you do with them?
>
>
>
> N
>
>
>
> Nicholas Thompson
>
> Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology
>
> Clark University
>
> thompnicks...@gmail.com
>
> https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Friam  *On Behalf Of *Eric Charles
> *Sent:* Saturday, July 4, 2020 8:55 PM
> *To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <
> friam@redfish.com>
> *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] Book publishing advice needed
>
>
>
> Nick said " the contract should explicitly say that rights revert to the
> author when the publisher no longer maintains the book in print and
> promotes it."
>
>
>
> I handwrote that into the contract for the book on New Realism (presumably
> based on a suggestion from you). Alas, that's an almost
> nonsensical insertion at this point. The company will maintain a website
> that lists the book indefinitely, with it available for purchase from
> various marketplaces such as Amazon and Google books. So it is "maintained"
> and "promoted", at no cost, in perpetuity, and is always available, because
> books can now easily be printed on demand in single copy. I expect nowadays
> it might make more sense to say something like: "If the book sells no
> copies in X years, in any medium supported by the publisher, then the
> rights revert to the author."
>
>
>
> It has been nine years, and the book still hasn't sold enough copies for
> me to see a penny.
>
>
>
> If I were writing a novel I would definitely either self publish or find a
> firm that focuses on online publishing, and which returns a definite
> marketing plan in return for their cut (there are firms that focus on
> kickstarting novels, or other internet forums, for example).
>
>
>
>
> ---
>
> Eric P. Charles, Ph.D.
> Department of Justice - Personnel Psychologist
>
> American University - Adjunct Instructor
>
>
>
>
>
> On Sat, Jul 4, 2020 at 4:46 PM  wrote:
>
> At the very list, the contract should explicitly say that rights revert to
> the author when the publisher no longer maintains the book in print and
> promotes it.  I often edited my magazine contracts to give only first
> rights.  I agree with Tom, that copyright should stay with the author.
>
>
>
> N
>
>
>
> Nicholas Thompson
>
> Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology
>
> Clark University
>
> thompnicks...@gmail.com
>
> https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Friam  *On Behalf Of *Tom Johnson
> *Sent:* Saturday, July 4, 2020 2:32 PM
> *To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <
> friam@redfish.com>
> *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] Book publishing advice needed
>
>
>
> Another advantage of self-publishing is that you retain the copyright.
> Ergo, you can license it to a publisher for an updated edition or just
> distribution.
>
> Tom
>
>
> 
> Tom Johnson - t...@jtjohnson.com
> Institute for Analytic Journalism   -- Santa Fe, NM USA
> 505.577.6482(c)505.473.9646(h)
> *NM Foundation for Open Government* <http://nmfog.org>
> *Check out It's The People's Data
> <https://www.facebook.com/pages/Its-The-Peoples-Data/1599854626919671>*
>
>
> 
>
>
>
>
>
>
> <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email_source=link_campaign=sig-email_content=webmail_term=icon>
>
> Virus-free. www.avast.com
> <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email_source=link_campaign=sig-email_content=webmail_term=link>
>
>
>
> On Sat, Jul 4, 2020 at 2:25 PM Jochen Fromm  wrote:
>
> Thanks. Yes, self-publishing is an option. I am looking for an official
> publisher mainly for one reason, namely that other scientists and
> researchers can cite it, since I still cling to the illusion that someone
> would actually do it. Normally self-published texts are not considered as
> reliable or trustworthy sources. I didn't expect that finding a decent
> publisher would be so difficult.
>
>
>
> -J.
>
>
>
>
>
>  Original message 
>
> From: Tom Johnson 
>
> Date: 7/4/20 20:10 (GMT+01:00)
>
> To: The Friday

Re: [FRIAM] Book publishing advice needed

2020-07-05 Thread Russell Standish

Being self-published hasn't stopped my book "Theory of Nothing" from
being cited. According to Google Scholar, it has 22 citations, 9th on
my list in terms of citation count, just after "Why Occams Razor", a
peer reviewed paper on similar topics. It got a bit of a boost from
Max Tegmark's book, as he singled it out as inspiration, kind of ironic when it
was one of Max's "crazy papers" that inspired me to write "Why Occams
Razor" and then "Theory of Nothing".

I think you need to have a reason to publish a book. Making money is
not one them - almost nobody makes money from writing books. Vanity
publications ("it looks good on the CV") is another one to avoid. Best
bet is if you have a story or a topic that needs telling, and you
think would be interesting to other people, then go for it. Marketing 
then becomes telling other people about it, advancing arguments from
it in fora like this. With a bit of luck, it goes viral.

One good reason for writing academic books is that it gives you
expanded scope to explain your ideas more fully, and in less
technically forbidding terms. Allows you to expand your readership
beyond the narrow circle reading your peer revieed articles. But you
probably want those peer reviewed articles to back up/draw upon your
book work. That's probably the reason why old academics write books,
and young ones write papers.

In my case, I've self-published 3 books so far: "Theory of Nothing",
which has sold over 1000 copies, and perhaps 2-3 times as many free
downloads from my website and the usual pirate websites, but in no way
does the royalties cover the time I put into it (unless being paid
less than a Calcutta rickshaw driver was a career ambition); "Amoeba's
Secret", a translation of a semi-autobiography by Bruno Marchal, which
was about the clearest exposition he gave of his ideas, and "Magic
Cottage", an Anthology of my son's writing, which was quite exquisite,
and sadly something he's not really doing now. Magic Cottage proved to
be more of a vanity publication than I thought it would be - but
partly because he never took up my suggestion of leaving a copy around
his college room, now apartment, where it could act as a conversation
starter. I also envisaged him using the book when going for jobs that
might require writing skills, but it seems he hasn't needed to do that
to date.

Cheers

On Sat, Jul 04, 2020 at 10:25:03PM +0200, Jochen Fromm wrote:
> Thanks. Yes, self-publishing is an option. I am looking for an official
> publisher mainly for one reason, namely that other scientists and researchers
> can cite it, since I still cling to the illusion that someone would actually 
> do
> it. Normally self-published texts are not considered as reliable or 
> trustworthy
> sources. I didn't expect that finding a decent publisher would be so
> difficult. 
> 
> -J.
> 
> 
>  Original message 
> From: Tom Johnson 
> Date: 7/4/20 20:10 (GMT+01:00)
> To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group 
> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Book publishing advice needed
> 
> Jochen:
> The deal being offered strikes me as a bad deal.
> 
> Background:  I have been practicing and teaching about "Be Your Own Publisher"
> for nearly 15 years.  There are, in my opinion, some major problems with all
> publishers today.  It starts with control of the copyright.  I think YOU 
> should
> want to maintain control of the copyright to your work.  It will depend on the
> contract, but many or most publishers will try to lock down the copyright in
> their favor for all -- ALL -- forms of your work in perpetuity and throughout
> the universe.  Sometimes quite literally.
> 
> Second, you should assume -- especially with a small publisher and you, not
> being as well known  as Stephen King or Daniel Steele  -- the publisher will 
> do
> little if anything to promote your book beyond a mention in its catalog and,
> maybe, some promotional links on Amazon.  Given that, a 5 percent royalty
> should be seen as a con.
> 
> Third, given your computing experience, you should find it easy to format and
> produce the book yourself.  I have used Lulu.com for years.  It is especially
> good if you want to have both hardback, paperback and PDF editions.  Again the
> advantages: you keep the copyright, you can set (and change) the prices and to
> a degree the royalties.  Also, Lulu and Amazon handle all the backend 
> financial
> arrangements and administration and pay directly and quickly.  I also use a
> very good, high quality digital printer in Albuquerque for paperback 
> editions. 
> It is Lithexcel.  It handles all the printing (one copy to any number) 
> quickly,
> along with all the fulfillment and accounting. The folks there will also, for
> only $25, set up

Re: [FRIAM] Book publishing advice needed

Eric, 

 

If you had the rights back, what would you do with them? 

 

N

 

Nicholas Thompson

Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology

Clark University

 <mailto:thompnicks...@gmail.com> thompnicks...@gmail.com

 <https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/> 
https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/

 

 

From: Friam  On Behalf Of Eric Charles
Sent: Saturday, July 4, 2020 8:55 PM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group 
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Book publishing advice needed

 

Nick said " the contract should explicitly say that rights revert to the author 
when the publisher no longer maintains the book in print and promotes it."

 

I handwrote that into the contract for the book on New Realism (presumably 
based on a suggestion from you). Alas, that's an almost nonsensical insertion 
at this point. The company will maintain a website that lists the book 
indefinitely, with it available for purchase from various marketplaces such as 
Amazon and Google books. So it is "maintained" and "promoted", at no cost, in 
perpetuity, and is always available, because books can now easily be printed on 
demand in single copy. I expect nowadays it might make more sense to say 
something like: "If the book sells no copies in X years, in any medium 
supported by the publisher, then the rights revert to the author."

 

It has been nine years, and the book still hasn't sold enough copies for me to 
see a penny. 

 

If I were writing a novel I would definitely either self publish or find a firm 
that focuses on online publishing, and which returns a definite marketing plan 
in return for their cut (there are firms that focus on kickstarting novels, or 
other internet forums, for example). 

 



---

Eric P. Charles, Ph.D.
Department of Justice - Personnel Psychologist

American University - Adjunct Instructor

 

 

On Sat, Jul 4, 2020 at 4:46 PM mailto:thompnicks...@gmail.com> > wrote:

At the very list, the contract should explicitly say that rights revert to the 
author when the publisher no longer maintains the book in print and promotes 
it.  I often edited my magazine contracts to give only first rights.  I agree 
with Tom, that copyright should stay with the author. 

 

N

 

Nicholas Thompson

Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology

Clark University

 <mailto:thompnicks...@gmail.com> thompnicks...@gmail.com

 <https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/> 
https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/

 

 

From: Friam mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com> > On 
Behalf Of Tom Johnson
Sent: Saturday, July 4, 2020 2:32 PM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group mailto:friam@redfish.com> >
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Book publishing advice needed

 

Another advantage of self-publishing is that you retain the copyright.  Ergo, 
you can license it to a publisher for an updated edition or just distribution.

Tom




Tom Johnson - t...@jtjohnson.com <mailto:t...@jtjohnson.com> 
Institute for Analytic Journalism   -- Santa Fe, NM USA
505.577.6482(c)505.473.9646(h)
 <http://nmfog.org> NM Foundation for Open Government
Check out It's The People's Data 
<https://www.facebook.com/pages/Its-The-Peoples-Data/1599854626919671>  




 

 


 
<https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email_source=link_campaign=sig-email_content=webmail_term=icon>
 

Virus-free.  
<https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email_source=link_campaign=sig-email_content=webmail_term=link>
 www.avast.com 

 

On Sat, Jul 4, 2020 at 2:25 PM Jochen Fromm mailto:j...@cas-group.net> > wrote:

Thanks. Yes, self-publishing is an option. I am looking for an official 
publisher mainly for one reason, namely that other scientists and researchers 
can cite it, since I still cling to the illusion that someone would actually do 
it. Normally self-published texts are not considered as reliable or trustworthy 
sources. I didn't expect that finding a decent publisher would be so difficult. 

 

-J.

 

 

 Original message 

From: Tom Johnson mailto:t...@jtjohnson.com> > 

Date: 7/4/20 20:10 (GMT+01:00) 

To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group mailto:friam@redfish.com> > 

Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Book publishing advice needed 

 

Jochen:

The deal being offered strikes me as a bad deal.

 

Background:  I have been practicing and teaching about "Be Your Own Publisher" 
for nearly 15 years.  There are, in my opinion, some major problems with all 
publishers today.  It starts with control of the copyright.  I think YOU should 
want to maintain control of the copyright to your work.  It will depend on the 
contract, but many or most publishers will try to lock down the copyright in 
their favor for all -- ALL -- forms o

Re: [FRIAM] Book publishing advice needed

2020-07-04 Thread Edward Angel

Publishers are not good guys.

One counter example: CRC Press returned the copyright to a couple books in 
which I had chapters because there weren’t many sales and we were able to put 
our chapters online. The books had only been out a couple of years.

Pearson has violated by contract in a way that had little financial impact but 
really pissed me off. So what can I do? Suing them is not a realistic option.

Ed
___

Ed Angel

Founding Director, Art, Research, Technology and Science Laboratory (ARTS Lab)
Professor Emeritus of Computer Science, University of New Mexico

1017 Sierra Pinon
Santa Fe, NM 87501
505-984-0136 (home) an...@cs.unm.edu 
<mailto:an...@cs.unm.edu>
505-453-4944 (cell) http://www.cs.unm.edu/~angel 
<http://www.cs.unm.edu/~angel>

> On Jul 4, 2020, at 8:55 PM, Eric Charles  
> wrote:
> 
> Nick said " the contract should explicitly say that rights revert to the 
> author when the publisher no longer maintains the book in print and promotes 
> it."
> 
> I handwrote that into the contract for the book on New Realism (presumably 
> based on a suggestion from you). Alas, that's an almost nonsensical insertion 
> at this point. The company will maintain a website that lists the book 
> indefinitely, with it available for purchase from various marketplaces such 
> as Amazon and Google books. So it is "maintained" and "promoted", at no cost, 
> in perpetuity, and is always available, because books can now easily be 
> printed on demand in single copy. I expect nowadays it might make more sense 
> to say something like: "If the book sells no copies in X years, in any medium 
> supported by the publisher, then the rights revert to the author."
> 
> It has been nine years, and the book still hasn't sold enough copies for me 
> to see a penny. 
> 
> If I were writing a novel I would definitely either self publish or find a 
> firm that focuses on online publishing, and which returns a definite 
> marketing plan in return for their cut (there are firms that focus on 
> kickstarting novels, or other internet forums, for example). 
>  
> 
> ---
> Eric P. Charles, Ph.D.
> Department of Justice - Personnel Psychologist
> American University - Adjunct Instructor
>  <mailto:echar...@american.edu>
> 
> On Sat, Jul 4, 2020 at 4:46 PM  <mailto:thompnicks...@gmail.com>> wrote:
> At the very list, the contract should explicitly say that rights revert to 
> the author when the publisher no longer maintains the book in print and 
> promotes it.  I often edited my magazine contracts to give only first rights. 
>  I agree with Tom, that copyright should stay with the author.
> 
>  
> 
> N
> 
>  
> 
> Nicholas Thompson
> 
> Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology
> 
> Clark University
> 
> thompnicks...@gmail.com <mailto:thompnicks...@gmail.com>
> https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/ 
> <https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/>
>  
> 
>  
> 
> From: Friam mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com>> On 
> Behalf Of Tom Johnson
> Sent: Saturday, July 4, 2020 2:32 PM
> To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group  <mailto:friam@redfish.com>>
> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Book publishing advice needed
> 
>  
> 
> Another advantage of self-publishing is that you retain the copyright.  Ergo, 
> you can license it to a publisher for an updated edition or just distribution.
> 
> Tom
> 
> 
> 
> Tom Johnson - t...@jtjohnson.com <mailto:t...@jtjohnson.com>
> Institute for Analytic Journalism   -- Santa Fe, NM USA
> 505.577.6482(c)505.473.9646(h)
> NM Foundation for Open Government <http://nmfog.org/>
> Check out It's The People's Data 
> <https://www.facebook.com/pages/Its-The-Peoples-Data/1599854626919671>
>  
> 
> 
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
>  
> <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email_source=link_campaign=sig-email_content=webmail_term=icon>
>   
> Virus-free. www.avast.com 
> <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email_source=link_campaign=sig-email_content=webmail_term=link>
>  
> 
> On Sat, Jul 4, 2020 at 2:25 PM Jochen Fromm  <mailto:j...@cas-group.net>> wrote:
> 
> Thanks. Yes, self-publishing is an option. I am looking for an official 
> publisher mainly for one reason, namely that other scientists and researchers 
> can cite it, since I still cling to the illusion that someone would actually 
> do it. Normally self-published texts are not considered as reliable or 
>

Re: [FRIAM] Book publishing advice needed

2020-07-04 Thread Eric Charles

Nick said " the contract should explicitly say that rights revert to the
author when the publisher no longer maintains the book in print and
promotes it."

I handwrote that into the contract for the book on New Realism (presumably
based on a suggestion from you). Alas, that's an almost
nonsensical insertion at this point. The company will maintain a website
that lists the book indefinitely, with it available for purchase from
various marketplaces such as Amazon and Google books. So it is "maintained"
and "promoted", at no cost, in perpetuity, and is always available, because
books can now easily be printed on demand in single copy. I expect nowadays
it might make more sense to say something like: "If the book sells no
copies in X years, in any medium supported by the publisher, then the
rights revert to the author."

It has been nine years, and the book still hasn't sold enough copies for me
to see a penny.

If I were writing a novel I would definitely either self publish or find a
firm that focuses on online publishing, and which returns a definite
marketing plan in return for their cut (there are firms that focus on
kickstarting novels, or other internet forums, for example).


---
Eric P. Charles, Ph.D.
Department of Justice - Personnel Psychologist
American University - Adjunct Instructor



On Sat, Jul 4, 2020 at 4:46 PM  wrote:

> At the very list, the contract should explicitly say that rights revert to
> the author when the publisher no longer maintains the book in print and
> promotes it.  I often edited my magazine contracts to give only first
> rights.  I agree with Tom, that copyright should stay with the author.
>
>
>
> N
>
>
>
> Nicholas Thompson
>
> Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology
>
> Clark University
>
> thompnicks...@gmail.com
>
> https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Friam  *On Behalf Of *Tom Johnson
> *Sent:* Saturday, July 4, 2020 2:32 PM
> *To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <
> friam@redfish.com>
> *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] Book publishing advice needed
>
>
>
> Another advantage of self-publishing is that you retain the copyright.
> Ergo, you can license it to a publisher for an updated edition or just
> distribution.
>
> Tom
>
>
> 
> Tom Johnson - t...@jtjohnson.com
> Institute for Analytic Journalism   -- Santa Fe, NM USA
> 505.577.6482(c)505.473.9646(h)
> *NM Foundation for Open Government* <http://nmfog.org>
> *Check out It's The People's Data
> <https://www.facebook.com/pages/Its-The-Peoples-Data/1599854626919671>*
>
>
> 
>
>
>
>
>
>
> <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email_source=link_campaign=sig-email_content=webmail_term=icon>
>
> Virus-free. www.avast.com
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>
>
> On Sat, Jul 4, 2020 at 2:25 PM Jochen Fromm  wrote:
>
> Thanks. Yes, self-publishing is an option. I am looking for an official
> publisher mainly for one reason, namely that other scientists and
> researchers can cite it, since I still cling to the illusion that someone
> would actually do it. Normally self-published texts are not considered as
> reliable or trustworthy sources. I didn't expect that finding a decent
> publisher would be so difficult.
>
>
>
> -J.
>
>
>
>
>
>  Original message 
>
> From: Tom Johnson 
>
> Date: 7/4/20 20:10 (GMT+01:00)
>
> To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group 
>
>
> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Book publishing advice needed
>
>
>
> Jochen:
>
> The deal being offered strikes me as a bad deal.
>
>
>
> Background:  I have been practicing and teaching about "Be Your Own
> Publisher" for nearly 15 years.  There are, in my opinion, some major
> problems with all publishers today.  It starts with control of the
> copyright.  I think YOU should want to maintain control of the copyright to
> your work.  It will depend on the contract, but many or most publishers
> will try to lock down the copyright in their favor for all -- ALL -- forms
> of your work in perpetuity and throughout the universe.  Sometimes quite
> literally.
>
>
>
> Second, you should assume -- especially with a small publisher and you,
> not being as well known  as Stephen King or Daniel Steele  -- the publisher
> will do little if anything to promote your book beyond a mention in its
> catalog and, maybe, some promotional links on Amazon.  Given that, a 5
> percent royalty s

Re: [FRIAM] Book publishing advice needed

2020-07-04 Thread Edward Angel

Let me know what you need this weekend.

I don’t have a card whatever that is but it seems like another doomed effort to 
prevent unauthorized copies. There are some good aspect to the eversion, some 
of which they denied would work while we were doing the book.

I finally got a login from Pearson so I see my own work. Took a long time to 
get them to give it to me. 

Ed
___

Ed Angel

Founding Director, Art, Research, Technology and Science Laboratory (ARTS Lab)
Professor Emeritus of Computer Science, University of New Mexico

1017 Sierra Pinon
Santa Fe, NM 87501
505-984-0136 (home) an...@cs.unm.edu 

505-453-4944 (cell) http://www.cs.unm.edu/~angel 


> On Jul 4, 2020, at 5:47 PM, Stephen Guerin  
> wrote:
> 
> Ed, 
> 
> I just ordered your 8th edition from Pearson 
> 
>  as I was blown away by the awesomeness of the new cover. :-)
> 
> The confirmation email tells me a *physical* access card is being shipped for 
> my digital order. 
> 
> First time I've seen this - are physical access cards for digital products 
> common for textbooks these days? I just thought it was lazy programming in 
> the shopping cart requiring a physical address for a digital product.
> 
> I have an urgent need to use your book this weekend and can not wait for 
> delivery. I will be calling the author directly while I await arrival :-) It 
> actually has to do with implementing the cover and getting the decentralized 
> capture and rendering to realtime which hinges on realtime depth-image based 
> rendering using spherical light fields while skipping any 3D cartesian 
> intermediate shenanigans. Thank you for your help so far!
> 
> -S
> 
> PS, I also checked out Amazon and they appear to be the same with the 
> physical card. 
> 
> PPS: 8th edition isn't the default choice edition on Amazon or Pearson when 
> searching. 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Sat, Jul 4, 2020 at 3:22 PM Edward Angel  > wrote:
> I’ve been a book author since 1972 and a textbook author since 1989. My 
> computer graphics textbook has been the most popular book in the area for 20 
> years and just came out in its eighth edition with various editions being 
> available in Chinese, Korean, Japanese and Russian. Sadly, the book business 
> has changed over that time; changed in way that is bad for almost everyone, 
> especially authors. I think you’re faced with a lot of bad choices. I hope 
> some of the following will prove helpful. And if not helpful, at least 
> interesting.
> 
> Before I forget, you might enjoy reading of my adventures writing the first 
> edition of my present textbook while on sabbatical in Venezuela, Ecuador, 
> Hong Kong and Nepal. There’s a pointer to it on my home page 
> www.cs.unm.edu/~angel  
> 
> When I had to pick a publisher, I knew the editors and  local book reps at 
> Academic Press, Addison-Wesley, Prentice Hall and Benjamin/Cummings. They 
> dominated the CS field and did so largely because they had editors who knew 
> the field, excellent book reps who knew the needs of the faculty and 
> students, a willingness to invest in a book, and in-house production. None of 
> these exist anymore and, as Tom pointed out, you're largely on your own. It’s 
> unfortunate if you care about how many copies get sold and your royalties. I 
> have many friends who self-published in the past. It’s a lot of work either 
> way but I prefer to put my effort into content and not type-setting or 
> marketing. None of my self-published friends have ever sold many books.
> 
> I had three excellent editors over 20 years. When I did my first edition, my 
> editor hired a development editor at great expense to improve the quality of 
> my writing. She worked with the CS faculty and grad students at Caltech and 
> Stanford. It made a huge difference. Now almost none of these jobs exist 
> within the publishers. All production is contracted out to the low bidders 
> (art, typesetting, copy editing, etc) most of whom are in India. I no longer 
> have an editor. There is one person working for the publusher with whom I 
> communicate with to try to get things done correctly with the contractors. 
> This last edition has been a long painful experience. 
> 
> So what happened? Books were always expensive for students, especially when 
> sold through college bookstores. Then used book sellers appeared and Asian 
> students started importing low cost Asian versions of the standard textbooks. 
> Under US copyright laws, both are legal. The publishers responded by upping 
> prices which reduced sales even more.
> 
> And then came electronic media. At first, my book, like most others, was 
> still print-only. But the publisher sent perfect

Re: [FRIAM] Book publishing advice needed

2020-07-04 Thread Stephen Guerin

Ed,

I just ordered your 8th edition from Pearson

as I was blown away by the awesomeness of the new cover. :-)

The confirmation email tells me a *physical* access card is being shipped
for my digital order.

First time I've seen this - are physical access cards for digital products
common for textbooks these days? I just thought it was lazy programming in
the shopping cart requiring a physical address for a digital product.

I have an urgent need to use your book this weekend and can not wait for
delivery. I will be calling the author directly while I await arrival :-)
It actually has to do with implementing the cover and getting the
decentralized capture and rendering to realtime which hinges on realtime
depth-image based rendering using spherical light fields while skipping any
3D cartesian intermediate shenanigans. Thank you for your help so far!

-S

PS, I also checked out Amazon and they appear to be the same with the
physical card.

PPS: 8th edition isn't the default choice edition on Amazon or Pearson when
searching.




On Sat, Jul 4, 2020 at 3:22 PM Edward Angel  wrote:

> I’ve been a book author since 1972 and a textbook author since 1989. My
> computer graphics textbook has been the most popular book in the area for
> 20 years and just came out in its eighth edition with various editions
> being available in Chinese, Korean, Japanese and Russian. Sadly, the book
> business has changed over that time; changed in way that is bad for almost
> everyone, especially authors. I think you’re faced with a lot of bad
> choices. I hope some of the following will prove helpful. And if not
> helpful, at least interesting.
>
> Before I forget, you might enjoy reading of my adventures writing the
> first edition of my present textbook while on sabbatical in Venezuela,
> Ecuador, Hong Kong and Nepal. There’s a pointer to it on my home page
> www.cs.unm.edu/~angel
>
> When I had to pick a publisher, I knew the editors and  local book reps at
> Academic Press, Addison-Wesley, Prentice Hall and Benjamin/Cummings. They
> dominated the CS field and did so largely because they had editors who knew
> the field, excellent book reps who knew the needs of the faculty and
> students, a willingness to invest in a book, and in-house production. None
> of these exist anymore and, as Tom pointed out, you're largely on your own.
> It’s unfortunate if you care about how many copies get sold and your
> royalties. I have many friends who self-published in the past. It’s a lot
> of work either way but I prefer to put my effort into content and not
> type-setting or marketing. None of my self-published friends have ever sold
> many books.
>
> I had three excellent editors over 20 years. When I did my first edition,
> my editor hired a development editor at great expense to improve the
> quality of my writing. She worked with the CS faculty and grad students at
> Caltech and Stanford. It made a huge difference. Now almost none of these
> jobs exist within the publishers. All production is contracted out to the
> low bidders (art, typesetting, copy editing, etc) most of whom are in
> India. I no longer have an editor. There is one person working for the
> publusher with whom I communicate with to try to get things done correctly
> with the contractors. This last edition has been a long painful experience.
>
> So what happened? Books were always expensive for students, especially
> when sold through college bookstores. Then used book sellers appeared and
> Asian students started importing low cost Asian versions of the standard
> textbooks. Under US copyright laws, both are legal. The publishers
> responded by upping prices which reduced sales even more.
>
> And then came electronic media. At first, my book, like most others, was
> still print-only. But the publisher sent perfect unwatermarked pdfs to all
> the schools what adopted the book for use by students with special needs.
> Wasn’t long before those pdfs made it to the Web. Then they had a
> electronic version and a kindle version that students could rent for a
> semester or year. The publisher, the largest in the business, was clueless
> about web security and had no idea that Kindles are not secure. Very
> quickly, the book appeared (with most of the other cs texts and various
> best sellers) on a Russian website as a “public service.” End of paid sales.
>
> The new edition is only available in electronic form and the publisher
> claims it is only available on a secure site. I doubt anyone on this list
> believes that.
>
> Although I never in the past had issues with the publisher having the
> copyright, which was pretty standard, I wish I had it now. Since there is
> no hope of making significant royalties now (we used), my coauthor and I
> would like to put the book out for free on our websites rather than having
> it

Re: [FRIAM] Book publishing advice needed

2020-07-04 Thread Frank Wimberly

I was more careful when submitting the book.  I always used the Oxford
comma, for instance.

But thanks.

---
Frank C. Wimberly
140 Calle Ojo Feliz,
Santa Fe, NM 87505

505 670-9918
Santa Fe, NM

On Sat, Jul 4, 2020, 5:06 PM Stephen Guerin 
wrote:

>
> On Sat, Jul 4, 2020 at 3:09 PM Frank Wimberly  wrote:
>
>> I hired an Amazon editor.  She said, I say boastfully, "There were
>> virtually no spelling, grammar, or punctuation errors so let's talk about
>> structural issues..."[image: Proofreading mark insert period symbol]
>>
>
> Insert period before three trailing ellipsis points. How much did you pay
> your Amazon editor?   ;-p
>
> MLA style places  the
> sentence-terminating period immediately after the last word of the
> quotation, even though a period does not occur there in the original
> material. The three ellipsis points are then placed after this
> sentence-terminating period.
>
>
> eg
>
> Thoreau argues that by simplifying one’s life, “the laws of the universe
> will appear less complex. . . .”
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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Re: [FRIAM] Book publishing advice needed

And I’M the person on this list who has a reputation for being rhetorically 
picky

 

Nicholas Thompson

Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology

Clark University

 <mailto:thompnicks...@gmail.com> thompnicks...@gmail.com

 <https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/> 
https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/

 

 

From: Friam  On Behalf Of Stephen Guerin
Sent: Saturday, July 4, 2020 5:06 PM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group 
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Book publishing advice needed

 

 

On Sat, Jul 4, 2020 at 3:09 PM Frank Wimberly mailto:wimber...@gmail.com> > wrote:

I hired an Amazon editor.  She said, I say boastfully, "There were virtually no 
spelling, grammar, or punctuation errors so let's talk about structural 
issues..."


Insert period before three trailing ellipsis points. How much did you pay your 
Amazon editor?   ;-p

MLA style places <https://www.thepunctuationguide.com/ellipses.html>  the 
sentence-terminating period immediately after the last word of the quotation, 
even though a period does not occur there in the original material. The three 
ellipsis points are then placed after this sentence-terminating period. 

 

eg

Thoreau argues that by simplifying one’s life, “the laws of the universe will 
appear less complex. . . .” 

 

 



 

 

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Re: [FRIAM] Book publishing advice needed

2020-07-04 Thread Stephen Guerin

On Sat, Jul 4, 2020 at 3:09 PM Frank Wimberly  wrote:

> I hired an Amazon editor.  She said, I say boastfully, "There were
> virtually no spelling, grammar, or punctuation errors so let's talk about
> structural issues..."[image: Proofreading mark insert period symbol]
>

Insert period before three trailing ellipsis points. How much did you pay
your Amazon editor?   ;-p

MLA style places  the
sentence-terminating period immediately after the last word of the
quotation, even though a period does not occur there in the original
material. The three ellipsis points are then placed after this
sentence-terminating period.

eg

Thoreau argues that by simplifying one’s life, “the laws of the universe
will appear less complex. . . .”
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Re: [FRIAM] Book publishing advice needed

2020-07-04 Thread Edward Angel

t;  Original message 
> From: Tom Johnson 
> Date: 7/4/20 20:10 (GMT+01:00)
> To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group 
> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Book publishing advice needed
> 
> Jochen:
> The deal being offered strikes me as a bad deal.
> 
> Background:  I have been practicing and teaching about "Be Your Own 
> Publisher" for nearly 15 years.  There are, in my opinion, some major 
> problems with all publishers today.  It starts with control of the copyright. 
>  I think YOU should want to maintain control of the copyright to your work.  
> It will depend on the contract, but many or most publishers will try to lock 
> down the copyright in their favor for all -- ALL -- forms of your work in 
> perpetuity and throughout the universe.  Sometimes quite literally.
> 
> Second, you should assume -- especially with a small publisher and you, not 
> being as well known  as Stephen King or Daniel Steele  -- the publisher will 
> do little if anything to promote your book beyond a mention in its catalog 
> and, maybe, some promotional links on Amazon.  Given that, a 5 percent 
> royalty should be seen as a con.
> 
> Third, given your computing experience, you should find it easy to format and 
> produce the book yourself.  I have used Lulu.com <http://lulu.com/> for 
> years.  It is especially good if you want to have both hardback, paperback 
> and PDF editions.  Again the advantages: you keep the copyright, you can set 
> (and change) the prices and to a degree the royalties.  Also, Lulu and Amazon 
> handle all the backend financial arrangements and administration and pay 
> directly and quickly.  I also use a very good, high quality digital printer 
> in Albuquerque for paperback editions.  It is Lithexcel 
> <https://lithexcel.com/services/print.html>.  It handles all the printing 
> (one copy to any number) quickly, along with all the fulfillment and 
> accounting. The folks there will also, for only $25, set up your book in the 
> Amazon inventory search engine.  Finally, there is Amazon's self-publishing 
> arm 
> <https://www.bookbaby.com/free-publishing-guides?utm_campaign=GOOSL31_source=SITELINK_medium=cpc=sNzCXe5z8_dc|pcrid|238281756657|pmt|e|pkw|amazon%20book%20publishing|slid|cWU1oXIv|targetids|kwd-362938383597|groupid|48812614458|=48812614458=kwd-362938383597=Cj0KCQjw0YD4BRD2ARIsAHwmKVnFci42apQ6vWUruvHuYX-FOum9VCF7bx83c_tSMHGoby8yylL_RTMaAjOEEALw_wcB>.
>   While Amazon might take a bigger slice, the control over all aspects is in 
> your hands.
> 
> Here's the problem/challenge with all of these.  YOU have to do the 
> marketing/publicity/promotion.  But so what?  If you today sign with any 
> publisher of any size you will have to do the same thing.
> 
> Hope this helps.  Feel free to contact me with questions.  Also you might 
> want to see https://bit.ly/2ZvihKc <https://bit.ly/2ZvihKc> 
> Tom
> 
> 
> Tom Johnson - t...@jtjohnson.com <mailto:t...@jtjohnson.com>
> Institute for Analytic Journalism   -- Santa Fe, NM USA
> 505.577.6482(c)505.473.9646(h)
> NM Foundation for Open Government <http://nmfog.org/>
> Check out It's The People's Data 
> <https://www.facebook.com/pages/Its-The-Peoples-Data/1599854626919671>
>  
> 
> 
> 
>  
> <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email_source=link_campaign=sig-email_content=webmail_term=icon>
>   Virus-free. www.avast.com 
> <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email_source=link_campaign=sig-email_content=webmail_term=link>
>  
> On Fri, Jul 3, 2020 at 1:29 AM Jochen Fromm  <mailto:j...@cas-group.net>> wrote:
> At one end of the spectrum there are the 5 big commercial publishers 
> Hachette, HarperCollins, Macmillan, Penguin Random House and Simon & 
> Schuster. They only publish stuff their agents select to make a lot of money. 
> There are also the big academic publishers like OUP, CUP, HUP and MIT Press, 
> which preferably publish strictly peer-reviewed content from professors at 
> Ivy League universities who made their PhD at the age of 20.
> 
> At the other end of the spectrum there are "predatory publishers" who publish 
> anything you submit as long as you pay enough money for it. Open access books 
> can also be very expensive. Publishing an "open access book" at De Gruyter 
> for example costs up to 8000 $. You pay for it so that other people read it. 
> It is basically some kind of advertising of your own work.
> 
> For my own new book I finally have an offer from a small publisher in 
> Washington D.C. who is somewhere in the middle of t

Re: [FRIAM] Book publishing advice needed

That’s impressive, Frank.

 

n

 

Nicholas Thompson

Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology

Clark University

 <mailto:thompnicks...@gmail.com> thompnicks...@gmail.com

 <https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/> 
https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/

 

 

From: Friam  On Behalf Of Frank Wimberly
Sent: Saturday, July 4, 2020 3:09 PM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group 
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Book publishing advice needed

 

I hired an Amazon editor.  She said, I say boastfully, "There were virtually no 
spelling, grammar, or punctuation errors so let's talk about structural 
issues..."

 

 

---
Frank C. Wimberly
140 Calle Ojo Feliz, 
Santa Fe, NM 87505

505 670-9918
Santa Fe, NM

 

On Sat, Jul 4, 2020, 3:05 PM Jacqueline Kazil mailto:jackieka...@gmail.com> > wrote:

I wrote a book with a major publisher and got 15% (if memory serves me right). 


If I did it again, I would self publish and pay for a freelance editor. 

The value really depends on your intended audience. My guess is your book niche 
and you will be able to navigate distribution better than a publisher. 

I would double down on the investment in a freelance editor to help you polish 
and pull it together. (My guess is that while you might write well, you are not 
a professional editor.) 



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Re: [FRIAM] Book publishing advice needed

2020-07-04 Thread Frank Wimberly

I hired an Amazon editor.  She said, I say boastfully, "There were
virtually no spelling, grammar, or punctuation errors so let's talk about
structural issues..."


---
Frank C. Wimberly
140 Calle Ojo Feliz,
Santa Fe, NM 87505

505 670-9918
Santa Fe, NM

On Sat, Jul 4, 2020, 3:05 PM Jacqueline Kazil  wrote:

> I wrote a book with a major publisher and got 15% (if memory serves me
> right).
>
> If I did it again, I would self publish and pay for a freelance editor.
>
> The value really depends on your intended audience. My guess is your book
> niche and you will be able to navigate distribution better than a
> publisher.
>
> I would double down on the investment in a freelance editor to help you
> polish and pull it together. (My guess is that while you might write well,
> you are not a professional editor.)
>
>
> -  . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-.  . .-. .
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>
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Re: [FRIAM] Book publishing advice needed

2020-07-04 Thread Jacqueline Kazil

I wrote a book with a major publisher and got 15% (if memory serves me
right).

If I did it again, I would self publish and pay for a freelance editor.

The value really depends on your intended audience. My guess is your book
niche and you will be able to navigate distribution better than a
publisher.

I would double down on the investment in a freelance editor to help you
polish and pull it together. (My guess is that while you might write well,
you are not a professional editor.)
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Re: [FRIAM] Book publishing advice needed

2020-07-04 Thread Frank Wimberly

My self-published memoir sold over 100 copies.  I doubt that it has been
cited since it's not a scholarly work.  At this point I get annoyed when
Amazon sends me a royalty payment because it means I have to pay taxes to
New Mexico.  Paying is no problem but filing is.

Anyway Amazon (KDP) did the printing, no lawyers, no copyright issues, I
can order author's copies any time. I'd do it again.

Frank

---
Frank C. Wimberly
140 Calle Ojo Feliz,
Santa Fe, NM 87505

505 670-9918
Santa Fe, NM

On Sat, Jul 4, 2020, 2:25 PM Jochen Fromm  wrote:

> Thanks. Yes, self-publishing is an option. I am looking for an official
> publisher mainly for one reason, namely that other scientists and
> researchers can cite it, since I still cling to the illusion that someone
> would actually do it. Normally self-published texts are not considered as
> reliable or trustworthy sources. I didn't expect that finding a decent
> publisher would be so difficult.
>
> -J.
>
>
>  Original message 
> From: Tom Johnson 
> Date: 7/4/20 20:10 (GMT+01:00)
> To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group 
>
> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Book publishing advice needed
>
> Jochen:
> The deal being offered strikes me as a bad deal.
>
> Background:  I have been practicing and teaching about "Be Your Own
> Publisher" for nearly 15 years.  There are, in my opinion, some major
> problems with all publishers today.  It starts with control of the
> copyright.  I think YOU should want to maintain control of the copyright to
> your work.  It will depend on the contract, but many or most publishers
> will try to lock down the copyright in their favor for all -- ALL -- forms
> of your work in perpetuity and throughout the universe.  Sometimes quite
> literally.
>
> Second, you should assume -- especially with a small publisher and you,
> not being as well known  as Stephen King or Daniel Steele  -- the publisher
> will do little if anything to promote your book beyond a mention in its
> catalog and, maybe, some promotional links on Amazon.  Given that, a 5
> percent royalty should be seen as a con.
>
> Third, given your computing experience, you should find it easy to format
> and produce the book yourself.  I have used Lulu.com for years.  It is
> especially good if you want to have both hardback, paperback and PDF
> editions.  Again the advantages: you keep the copyright, you can set (and
> change) the prices and to a degree the royalties.  Also, Lulu and Amazon
> handle all the backend financial arrangements and administration and pay
> directly and quickly.  I also use a very good, high quality digital printer
> in Albuquerque for paperback editions.  It is Lithexcel
> <https://lithexcel.com/services/print.html>.  It handles all the printing
> (one copy to any number) quickly, along with all the fulfillment and
> accounting. The folks there will also, for only $25, set up your book in
> the Amazon inventory search engine.  Finally, there is Amazon's
> self-publishing arm
> <https://www.bookbaby.com/free-publishing-guides?utm_campaign=GOOSL31_source=SITELINK_medium=cpc=sNzCXe5z8_dc%7Cpcrid%7C238281756657%7Cpmt%7Ce%7Cpkw%7Camazon%20book%20publishing%7Cslid%7CcWU1oXIv%7Ctargetids%7Ckwd-362938383597%7Cgroupid%7C48812614458%7C=48812614458=kwd-362938383597=Cj0KCQjw0YD4BRD2ARIsAHwmKVnFci42apQ6vWUruvHuYX-FOum9VCF7bx83c_tSMHGoby8yylL_RTMaAjOEEALw_wcB>.
> While Amazon might take a bigger slice, the control over all aspects is in
> your hands.
>
> Here's the problem/challenge with all of these.  *YOU* have to do the
> marketing/publicity/promotion.  But so what?  If you today sign with any
> publisher of any size you will have to do the same thing.
>
> Hope this helps.  Feel free to contact me with questions.  Also you might
> want to see https://bit.ly/2ZvihKc
> Tom
>
> 
> Tom Johnson - t...@jtjohnson.com
> Institute for Analytic Journalism   -- Santa Fe, NM USA
> 505.577.6482(c)505.473.9646(h)
> *NM Foundation for Open Government* <http://nmfog.org>
> *Check out It's The People's Data
> <https://www.facebook.com/pages/Its-The-Peoples-Data/1599854626919671>*
>
> 
>
>
>
> <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email_source=link_campaign=sig-email_content=webmail_term=icon>
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>
> On Fri, Jul 3, 2020 at 1:29 AM Jochen Fromm  wrote:
>
>> At one end of the spectrum there are the 5 big commercial publishers
>> Hachette,

Re: [FRIAM] Book publishing advice needed

At the very list, the contract should explicitly say that rights revert to the 
author when the publisher no longer maintains the book in print and promotes 
it.  I often edited my magazine contracts to give only first rights.  I agree 
with Tom, that copyright should stay with the author. 

 

N

 

Nicholas Thompson

Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology

Clark University

 <mailto:thompnicks...@gmail.com> thompnicks...@gmail.com

 <https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/> 
https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/

 

 

From: Friam  On Behalf Of Tom Johnson
Sent: Saturday, July 4, 2020 2:32 PM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group 
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Book publishing advice needed

 

Another advantage of self-publishing is that you retain the copyright.  Ergo, 
you can license it to a publisher for an updated edition or just distribution.

Tom




Tom Johnson - t...@jtjohnson.com <mailto:t...@jtjohnson.com> 
Institute for Analytic Journalism   -- Santa Fe, NM USA
505.577.6482(c)505.473.9646(h)
 <http://nmfog.org> NM Foundation for Open Government
Check out It's The People's Data 
<https://www.facebook.com/pages/Its-The-Peoples-Data/1599854626919671>  




 

 


 
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On Sat, Jul 4, 2020 at 2:25 PM Jochen Fromm mailto:j...@cas-group.net> > wrote:

Thanks. Yes, self-publishing is an option. I am looking for an official 
publisher mainly for one reason, namely that other scientists and researchers 
can cite it, since I still cling to the illusion that someone would actually do 
it. Normally self-published texts are not considered as reliable or trustworthy 
sources. I didn't expect that finding a decent publisher would be so difficult. 

 

-J.

 

 

 Original message 

From: Tom Johnson mailto:t...@jtjohnson.com> > 

Date: 7/4/20 20:10 (GMT+01:00) 

To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group mailto:friam@redfish.com> > 

Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Book publishing advice needed 

 

Jochen:

The deal being offered strikes me as a bad deal.

 

Background:  I have been practicing and teaching about "Be Your Own Publisher" 
for nearly 15 years.  There are, in my opinion, some major problems with all 
publishers today.  It starts with control of the copyright.  I think YOU should 
want to maintain control of the copyright to your work.  It will depend on the 
contract, but many or most publishers will try to lock down the copyright in 
their favor for all -- ALL -- forms of your work in perpetuity and throughout 
the universe.  Sometimes quite literally.

 

Second, you should assume -- especially with a small publisher and you, not 
being as well known  as Stephen King or Daniel Steele  -- the publisher will do 
little if anything to promote your book beyond a mention in its catalog and, 
maybe, some promotional links on Amazon.  Given that, a 5 percent royalty 
should be seen as a con.

 

Third, given your computing experience, you should find it easy to format and 
produce the book yourself.  I have used Lulu.com <http://Lulu.com>  for years.  
It is especially good if you want to have both hardback, paperback and PDF 
editions.  Again the advantages: you keep the copyright, you can set (and 
change) the prices and to a degree the royalties.  Also, Lulu and Amazon handle 
all the backend financial arrangements and administration and pay directly and 
quickly.  I also use a very good, high quality digital printer in Albuquerque 
for paperback editions.  It is Lithexcel 
<https://lithexcel.com/services/print.html> .  It handles all the printing (one 
copy to any number) quickly, along with all the fulfillment and accounting. The 
folks there will also, for only $25, set up your book in the Amazon inventory 
search engine.  Finally, there is Amazon's self-publishing arm 
<https://www.bookbaby.com/free-publishing-guides?utm_campaign=GOOSL31_source=SITELINK_medium=cpc=sNzCXe5z8_dc%7Cpcrid%7C238281756657%7Cpmt%7Ce%7Cpkw%7Camazon%20book%20publishing%7Cslid%7CcWU1oXIv%7Ctargetids%7Ckwd-362938383597%7Cgroupid%7C48812614458%7C=48812614458=kwd-362938383597=Cj0KCQjw0YD4BRD2ARIsAHwmKVnFci42apQ6vWUruvHuYX-FOum9VCF7bx83c_tSMHGoby8yylL_RTMaAjOEEALw_wcB>
 .  While Amazon might take a bigger slice, the control over all aspects is in 
your hands.

 

Here's the problem/challenge with all of these.  YOU have to do the 
marketing/publicity/promotion.  But so what?  If you today sign with any 
publisher of any size you will have to do the same thing.

 

Hope this helps.  Feel free

Re: [FRIAM] Book publishing advice needed

2020-07-04 Thread Tom Johnson

Another advantage of self-publishing is that you retain the copyright.
Ergo, you can license it to a publisher for an updated edition or just
distribution.
Tom


Tom Johnson - t...@jtjohnson.com
Institute for Analytic Journalism   -- Santa Fe, NM USA
505.577.6482(c)505.473.9646(h)
*NM Foundation for Open Government* <http://nmfog.org>
*Check out It's The People's Data
<https://www.facebook.com/pages/Its-The-Peoples-Data/1599854626919671>*




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On Sat, Jul 4, 2020 at 2:25 PM Jochen Fromm  wrote:

> Thanks. Yes, self-publishing is an option. I am looking for an official
> publisher mainly for one reason, namely that other scientists and
> researchers can cite it, since I still cling to the illusion that someone
> would actually do it. Normally self-published texts are not considered as
> reliable or trustworthy sources. I didn't expect that finding a decent
> publisher would be so difficult.
>
> -J.
>
>
>  Original message 
> From: Tom Johnson 
> Date: 7/4/20 20:10 (GMT+01:00)
> To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group 
>
> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Book publishing advice needed
>
> Jochen:
> The deal being offered strikes me as a bad deal.
>
> Background:  I have been practicing and teaching about "Be Your Own
> Publisher" for nearly 15 years.  There are, in my opinion, some major
> problems with all publishers today.  It starts with control of the
> copyright.  I think YOU should want to maintain control of the copyright to
> your work.  It will depend on the contract, but many or most publishers
> will try to lock down the copyright in their favor for all -- ALL -- forms
> of your work in perpetuity and throughout the universe.  Sometimes quite
> literally.
>
> Second, you should assume -- especially with a small publisher and you,
> not being as well known  as Stephen King or Daniel Steele  -- the publisher
> will do little if anything to promote your book beyond a mention in its
> catalog and, maybe, some promotional links on Amazon.  Given that, a 5
> percent royalty should be seen as a con.
>
> Third, given your computing experience, you should find it easy to format
> and produce the book yourself.  I have used Lulu.com for years.  It is
> especially good if you want to have both hardback, paperback and PDF
> editions.  Again the advantages: you keep the copyright, you can set (and
> change) the prices and to a degree the royalties.  Also, Lulu and Amazon
> handle all the backend financial arrangements and administration and pay
> directly and quickly.  I also use a very good, high quality digital printer
> in Albuquerque for paperback editions.  It is Lithexcel
> <https://lithexcel.com/services/print.html>.  It handles all the printing
> (one copy to any number) quickly, along with all the fulfillment and
> accounting. The folks there will also, for only $25, set up your book in
> the Amazon inventory search engine.  Finally, there is Amazon's
> self-publishing arm
> <https://www.bookbaby.com/free-publishing-guides?utm_campaign=GOOSL31_source=SITELINK_medium=cpc=sNzCXe5z8_dc%7Cpcrid%7C238281756657%7Cpmt%7Ce%7Cpkw%7Camazon%20book%20publishing%7Cslid%7CcWU1oXIv%7Ctargetids%7Ckwd-362938383597%7Cgroupid%7C48812614458%7C=48812614458=kwd-362938383597=Cj0KCQjw0YD4BRD2ARIsAHwmKVnFci42apQ6vWUruvHuYX-FOum9VCF7bx83c_tSMHGoby8yylL_RTMaAjOEEALw_wcB>.
> While Amazon might take a bigger slice, the control over all aspects is in
> your hands.
>
> Here's the problem/challenge with all of these.  *YOU* have to do the
> marketing/publicity/promotion.  But so what?  If you today sign with any
> publisher of any size you will have to do the same thing.
>
> Hope this helps.  Feel free to contact me with questions.  Also you might
> want to see https://bit.ly/2ZvihKc
> Tom
>
> 
> Tom Johnson - t...@jtjohnson.com
> Institute for Analytic Journalism   -- Santa Fe, NM USA
> 505.577.6482(c)505.473.9646(h)
> *NM Foundation for Open Government* <http://nmfog.org>
> *Check out It's The People's Data
> <https://www.facebook.com/pages/Its-The-Peoples-Data/1599854626919671>*
>
> 
>
>
>
> <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email_source=link_campaign=sig-email_content=webmail_t

Re: [FRIAM] Book publishing advice needed