Re: [FRIAM] What's in a name? MOTH to a Flame

[Russell Standish]

On Mon, Nov 02, 2020 at 11:24:39AM -0500, Barry MacKichan wrote:
> When I interviewed at Microsoft, one of my interviewers was Charles Simonyi,
> the originator of what is called “Hungarian”. It is a small set of rules and a
> bunch of prefixes used to encode type information in variable and function
> names. For example, ‘lpszName’ is the name of a long pointer to a
> zero-terminated string. It doesn’t work well when there are a lot of
> user-defined types, such as C++ classes.

It doesn't work well at any point. Basically, the name could be lying,
for example if the implementation has been changed, but the variable
name not. Therefore, if you need to know the type of something, then
you need to look it up (modern IDEs make this pretty easy), not assume
that the variable name tells you anything about it's type. Also, there
are some many variants of "Hungarian", it gets pretty silly after a
while. Years of reading code has taught me to filter out hungarian
prefixes as meaningless line noise.



-- 


Dr Russell StandishPhone 0425 253119 (mobile)
Principal, High Performance Coders hpco...@hpcoders.com.au
  http://www.hpcoders.com.au


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Re: [FRIAM] What's in a name? MOTH to a Flame

[Barry MacKichan]

When I interviewed at Microsoft, one of my interviewers was Charles 
Simonyi, the originator of what is called “Hungarian”. It is a small 
set of rules and a bunch of prefixes used to encode type information in 
variable and function names. For example, ‘lpszName’ is the name of 
a long pointer to a zero-terminated string. It doesn’t work well when 
there are a lot of user-defined types, such as C++ classes. I was 
unaware of this before the interview.


The interview included implementing a function on a blackboard. At some 
point I muttered that the hardest part of programming is coming up with 
names. I think I became a shoo-in at that point. (I still do believe 
that about names).


—Barry

On 1 Nov 2020, at 11:59, Stephen Guerin wrote:

Naming may seem trivial and arbitrary but it is important as this [CS 
aphorism 
attests]().
      "There are 2 hard problems in computer science: cache 
invalidation, naming things, and off-by-1 errors."
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Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6  bit.ly/virtualfriam
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Re: [FRIAM] What's in a name? MOTH to a Flame

[thompnickson2]

It’s funny that you should mention this  right now, because you WEREN’T at 
FRIAM last week, and we spent quite a time discussing whether physicists could 
honestly disclaim the terms they use and the metaphors those terms imply.  Eric 
and I were arguing that they can’t and that those metaphors not only play a 
role in granting them fame and fortune, but that they often play a role in the 
development of their thought, which, if not recognized, can be dangerous.  

 

In the end, it turned out that we had not been the first to come up with a 
conditional association strategy.  A very bright woman by the name of Athena 
Aptikis (?) invented it about the same time, or a little ahead of us.  And 
others as well.  If you want find those references, look at some of the 
responses to our article on JSSS, and then work your way backwards.  

 

People have often argued that cooperation takes some very special circumstances 
to evolve if competition is your base line.  But the reverse is also true; if 
your baseline is cooperation then competition is hard to get to.  Think about 
all the structures of enforcement that have to be assured before we can have a 
level playing field.   Who are the guarantors of fairness in the genome?

 

Nick 

 

Nicholas Thompson

Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology

Clark University

  thompnicks...@gmail.com

  
https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/

 

 

From: Friam  On Behalf Of Stephen Guerin
Sent: Sunday, November 1, 2020 5:03 PM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group 
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] What's in a name? MOTH to a Flame

 

> Why is this coming up now??

*   Some sense of urgency as I want to get your input and approval on 
naming while your mental faculties are still at their height  ;-p
*   you mentioned having some regret on the name two weeks ago at FRIAM and 
I thought I heard you mention an alternative
*   We are writing code and need to name an algorithm as we discuss it I 
don't think MOTH is the right name. It's less of an academic exercise on naming 
and more of the practical need to efficiently communicate among developers. 
Especially so when they need to debug behavior it helps to have a good name of 
what's supposed to be going on.
*   we've been asked to write a paper on our approach to collective 
intelligence and collective action in "ungoverned spaces" and "undergoverned 
spaces". Think governance more broadly than government as in wikipedia 
  description. I'm thinking a bit 
about how MOTH is an example design mechanism. While the MOTH paper was 
introduced in the context of the "Darwinian Problem of Altruism", that may have 
been a forced worldview for the application of the heuristic/algorithm. I think 
MOTH equally fits in an alternative world view of coopertive effects in 
Collective Action where "selfless acts" are not a "problem" that needs 
explaining.

On Sun, Nov 1, 2020 at 12:12 PM mailto:thompnicks...@gmail.com> > wrote:

Yes.  You are correct.  That’s why the use of stupid names is so stupid.  We 
could have used abbreviations such as UnconAltConAss (Moth) and UnconDefConAss 
(NasMoth), ConAltUnconAss (Tit for tat), etc.  Mostly I think we should obey 
our nursery school teacher and “use our words”.  There was a kid at one of my 
kid’s nursery school who used this strategy very consistently.  He would always 
ask politely for the toy the other kid was playing with, BEFORE he hit him with 
a block.  Redundancy in scientific writing is not such a bad thing.  

 

What I would like to remind you is that this thing we created was a platform 
that could have been used to rip off half a dozen publishable “experiments.”  
Nobody has ever exploited it for that purpose, which is sad.  We only got the 
one publication out of it.  We needed graduate students. 

 

Why is this coming up now??

 

Nick 

 

Nicholas Thompson

Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology

Clark University

  thompnicks...@gmail.com

  
https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/

 

 

From: Friam mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com> > On 
Behalf Of Stephen Guerin
Sent: Sunday, November 1, 2020 12:22 PM
To: Stephen Guerin mailto:stephen.gue...@simtable.com> >
Cc: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group mailto:friam@redfish.com> >
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] What's in a name? MOTH to a Flame

 

And as I look at it more closely, Nasty Moth isn't actually "MOTH" in the 
meaning of "My Way or Highway" as it leaves when the other agent does "My way" 
which is defecting also.

 




___
stephen.gue...@simtable.com  

CEO, Simtable  http://www.simtable.com  

1600 Lena St #D1, Santa Fe, NM 87505

office: (505)995-0206 

Re: [FRIAM] What's in a name? MOTH to a Flame

[Stephen Guerin]

> Why is this coming up now??

   - Some sense of urgency as I want to get your input and approval on
   naming while your mental faculties are still at their height  ;-p
   - you mentioned having some regret on the name two weeks ago at FRIAM
   and I thought I heard you mention an alternative
   - We are writing code and need to name an algorithm as we discuss it I
   don't think MOTH is the right name. It's less of an academic exercise on
   naming and more of the practical need to efficiently communicate among
   developers. Especially so when they need to debug behavior it helps to have
   a good name of what's supposed to be going on.
   - we've been asked to write a paper on our approach to collective
   intelligence and collective action in "ungoverned spaces" and
   "undergoverned spaces". Think governance more broadly than government as in
   wikipedia  description. I'm
   thinking a bit about how MOTH is an example design mechanism. While the
   MOTH paper was introduced in the context of the "Darwinian Problem of
   Altruism", that may have been a forced worldview for the application of the
   heuristic/algorithm. I think MOTH equally fits in an alternative world view
   of coopertive effects in Collective Action where "selfless acts" are not a
   "problem" that needs explaining.

On Sun, Nov 1, 2020 at 12:12 PM  wrote:

> Yes.  You are correct.  That’s why the use of stupid names is so stupid.
> We could have used abbreviations such as UnconAltConAss (Moth) and
> UnconDefConAss (NasMoth), ConAltUnconAss (Tit for tat), etc.  Mostly I
> think we should obey our nursery school teacher and “use our words”.  There
> was a kid at one of my kid’s nursery school who used this strategy very
> consistently.  He would always ask politely for the toy the other kid was
> playing with, BEFORE he hit him with a block.  Redundancy in scientific
> writing is not such a bad thing.
>
>
>
> What I would like to remind you is that this thing we created was a
> platform that could have been used to rip off half a dozen publishable
> “experiments.”  Nobody has ever exploited it for that purpose, which is
> sad.  We only got the one publication out of it.  We needed graduate
> students.
>
>
>
> Why is this coming up now??
>
>
>
> Nick
>
>
>
> Nicholas Thompson
>
> Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology
>
> Clark University
>
> thompnicks...@gmail.com
>
> https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Friam  *On Behalf Of *Stephen Guerin
> *Sent:* Sunday, November 1, 2020 12:22 PM
> *To:* Stephen Guerin 
> *Cc:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <
> friam@redfish.com>
> *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] What's in a name? MOTH to a Flame
>
>
>
> And as I look at it more closely, Nasty Moth isn't actually "MOTH" in the
> meaning of "My Way or Highway" as it leaves when the other agent does "My
> way" which is defecting also.
>
>
>
>
> ___
> stephen.gue...@simtable.com 
>
> CEO, Simtable  http://www.simtable.com
>
> 1600 Lena St #D1, Santa Fe, NM 87505
>
> office: (505)995-0206 mobile: (505)577-5828
>
> twitter: @simtable
>
> z oom.simtable.com
>
>
>
>
>
> On Sun, Nov 1, 2020 at 11:17 AM Stephen Guerin <
> stephen.gue...@simtable.com> wrote:
>
> > I think the proper name is Conditional Association Strategy
>
>
>
> Yes, I think of Conditional Association Strategy as its "genus". There's
> an unspecified bit in the "genome" on the conditional behavior in that name
> that needs to be more specific to make it a species which could be either
> cooperate or defect. In the table from the paper, For example, there's
> three strategies of the "conditional association strategies" genus.
> Arguably the name MOTH is a name for the genus not the particular species.
> Note how NasMoth (NastyMoth) has that bit specified in the negative
> direction. We'd like the "dual" in the positive direction.
>
>
>
> A more particular name for the MOTH strategy might be something like a
> "HippieMoth" ethic where it seeks reciprocity in ooperative relationships
> and leaves when reciprocity is absent. Another name might be "Hippy-Dippy"
> which gives the sense of flightiness too. But I'm wondering if there's a
> better character analogue. It is a kind of golden rule for dynamic networks.
>
>
>
>
>
> As we're writing some software and related whitepapers I want
> input/blessing as we consider tightening up the naming. Note how google's
> naming of PageRank  was helpful
> to communicate their approach.
>
>
>
> ___
> stephen.gue...@simtable.com 
>
> CEO, Simtable  http://www.simtable.com
>
> 1600 Lena St #D1, Santa Fe, NM 87505
>
> office: (505)995-0206 mobile: (505)577-5828
>
> twitter: @simtable
>
> z oom.simtable.com
>
>
>
>
>
> On Sun, Nov 1, 2020 

Re: [FRIAM] What's in a name? MOTH to a Flame

[thompnickson2]

Yes.  You are correct.  That’s why the use of stupid names is so stupid.  We 
could have used abbreviations such as UnconAltConAss (Moth) and UnconDefConAss 
(NasMoth), ConAltUnconAss (Tit for tat), etc.  Mostly I think we should obey 
our nursery school teacher and “use our words”.  There was a kid at one of my 
kid’s nursery school who used this strategy very consistently.  He would always 
ask politely for the toy the other kid was playing with, BEFORE he hit him with 
a block.  Redundancy in scientific writing is not such a bad thing.  

 

What I would like to remind you is that this thing we created was a platform 
that could have been used to rip off half a dozen publishable “experiments.”  
Nobody has ever exploited it for that purpose, which is sad.  We only got the 
one publication out of it.  We needed graduate students. 

 

Why is this coming up now??

 

Nick 

 

Nicholas Thompson

Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology

Clark University

  thompnicks...@gmail.com

  
https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/

 

 

From: Friam  On Behalf Of Stephen Guerin
Sent: Sunday, November 1, 2020 12:22 PM
To: Stephen Guerin 
Cc: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group 
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] What's in a name? MOTH to a Flame

 

And as I look at it more closely, Nasty Moth isn't actually "MOTH" in the 
meaning of "My Way or Highway" as it leaves when the other agent does "My way" 
which is defecting also.

 




___
stephen.gue...@simtable.com  

CEO, Simtable  http://www.simtable.com  

1600 Lena St #D1, Santa Fe, NM 87505

office: (505)995-0206 mobile: (505)577-5828

twitter: @simtable

z  oom.simtable.com  

 

 

On Sun, Nov 1, 2020 at 11:17 AM Stephen Guerin mailto:stephen.gue...@simtable.com> > wrote:

> I think the proper name is Conditional Association Strategy

 

Yes, I think of Conditional Association Strategy as its "genus". There's an 
unspecified bit in the "genome" on the conditional behavior in that name that 
needs to be more specific to make it a species which could be either cooperate 
or defect. In the table from the paper, For example, there's three strategies 
of the "conditional association strategies" genus. Arguably the name MOTH is a 
name for the genus not the particular species. Note how NasMoth (NastyMoth) has 
that bit specified in the negative direction. We'd like the "dual" in the 
positive direction.

 

A more particular name for the MOTH strategy might be something like a 
"HippieMoth" ethic where it seeks reciprocity in ooperative relationships and 
leaves when reciprocity is absent. Another name might be "Hippy-Dippy" which 
gives the sense of flightiness too. But I'm wondering if there's a better 
character analogue. It is a kind of golden rule for dynamic networks.

 



 

As we're writing some software and related whitepapers I want input/blessing as 
we consider tightening up the naming. Note how google's naming of PageRank 
  was helpful to communicate their 
approach.

 

___
stephen.gue...@simtable.com  

CEO, Simtable  http://www.simtable.com  

1600 Lena St #D1, Santa Fe, NM 87505

office: (505)995-0206 mobile: (505)577-5828

twitter: @simtable

z  oom.simtable.com  

 

 

On Sun, Nov 1, 2020 at 10:14 AM mailto:thompnicks...@gmail.com> > wrote:

I think the proper name is Conditional Association Strategy (as opposed to a 
Condition Altruism Strategy.  

 

My original impulse was not .. um … prosocial.  I was pissed by the extent to 
which the entire literature had gone down the Axelrod rat hole with its totally 
unnatural assumptions and annoyed at my colleagues for giving things cute 
names.  So, I thought, I can play this stupid game, too.  And,  indeed, I 
could.  And SURPRISE! it’s still a stupid game, even though I can play it.  

 

Nick 

 

 

 

Nicholas Thompson

Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology

Clark University

  thompnicks...@gmail.com

  
https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/

 

 

From: Friam mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com> > On 
Behalf Of Stephen Guerin
Sent: Sunday, November 1, 2020 11:00 AM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group mailto:friam@redfish.com> >
Subject: [FRIAM] What's in a name? MOTH to a Flame

 

Nick,

 

On a recent FRIAM you expressed mild regret on your naming of MOTH (My Way or 
the Highway)
  http://jasss.soc.surrey.ac.uk/9/2/4.html

 

Given a chance to rename it what were some of the options over the years?  Does 
the 

Re: [FRIAM] What's in a name? MOTH to a Flame

[thompnickson2]

NiceMoth?

 

Nicholas Thompson

Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology

Clark University

  thompnicks...@gmail.com

  
https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/

 

 

From: Friam  On Behalf Of Stephen Guerin
Sent: Sunday, November 1, 2020 12:17 PM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group 
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] What's in a name? MOTH to a Flame

 

> I think the proper name is Conditional Association Strategy

 

Yes, I think of Conditional Association Strategy as its "genus". There's an 
unspecified bit in the "genome" on the conditional behavior in that name that 
needs to be more specific to make it a species which could be either cooperate 
or defect. In the table from the paper, For example, there's three strategies 
of the "conditional association strategies" genus. Arguably the name MOTH is a 
name for the genus not the particular species. Note how NasMoth (NastyMoth) has 
that bit specified in the negative direction. We'd like the "dual" in the 
positive direction.

 

A more particular name for the MOTH strategy might be something like a 
"HippieMoth" ethic where it seeks reciprocity in ooperative relationships and 
leaves when reciprocity is absent. Another name might be "Hippy-Dippy" which 
gives the sense of flightiness too. But I'm wondering if there's a better 
character analogue. It is a kind of golden rule for dynamic networks.

 



 

As we're writing some software and related whitepapers I want input/blessing as 
we consider tightening up the naming. Note how google's naming of PageRank 
  was helpful to communicate their 
approach.

 

___
stephen.gue...@simtable.com  

CEO, Simtable  http://www.simtable.com  

1600 Lena St #D1, Santa Fe, NM 87505

office: (505)995-0206 mobile: (505)577-5828

twitter: @simtable

z  oom.simtable.com  

 

 

On Sun, Nov 1, 2020 at 10:14 AM mailto:thompnicks...@gmail.com> > wrote:

I think the proper name is Conditional Association Strategy (as opposed to a 
Condition Altruism Strategy.  

 

My original impulse was not .. um … prosocial.  I was pissed by the extent to 
which the entire literature had gone down the Axelrod rat hole with its totally 
unnatural assumptions and annoyed at my colleagues for giving things cute 
names.  So, I thought, I can play this stupid game, too.  And,  indeed, I 
could.  And SURPRISE! it’s still a stupid game, even though I can play it.  

 

Nick 

 

 

 

Nicholas Thompson

Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology

Clark University

  thompnicks...@gmail.com

  
https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/

 

 

From: Friam mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com> > On 
Behalf Of Stephen Guerin
Sent: Sunday, November 1, 2020 11:00 AM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group mailto:friam@redfish.com> >
Subject: [FRIAM] What's in a name? MOTH to a Flame

 

Nick,

 

On a recent FRIAM you expressed mild regret on your naming of MOTH (My Way or 
the Highway)
  http://jasss.soc.surrey.ac.uk/9/2/4.html

 

Given a chance to rename it what were some of the options over the years?  Does 
the list have better suggestions?

 

Naming may seem trivial and arbitrary but it is important as this CS aphorism 
attests  .
  "There are 2 hard problems in computer science: cache invalidation, 
naming things, and off-by-1 errors."

 

For the list, MOTH is a winning strategy in an expanded Iterated Prisoners 
Dilemma game where agents can leave a relationship during a round in the 
tournament and be randomly assigned another unassociated agent. They always 
cooperate and then leave if defected against. MOTH agents unconditionally 
cooperate and conditionally associate.

 

An example of an expanded TIT-FOR-TAT strategy in this game might be to 
conditionally cooperate and unconditionally associate. ie cooperate until 
defected against then switch to always defect and  stay in the association. 
(think of a bad marriage without divorce). 

 

We continue to think MOTH remains an important simple heuristic for link 
formation/maintenance in trust networks / decentralized systems. And naming is 
important.

 

-Stephen

 

 

___

stephen.gue...@simtable.com  

CEO, Simtable  http://www.simtable.com  

1600 Lena St #D1, Santa Fe, NM 87505

office: (505)995-0206 mobile: (505)577-5828

twitter: @simtable

z  oom.simtable.com  

-  . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-.  . .-. .
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group 

Re: [FRIAM] What's in a name? MOTH to a Flame

[Stephen Guerin]

And as I look at it more closely, Nasty Moth isn't actually "MOTH" in the
meaning of "My Way or Highway" as it leaves when the other agent does "My
way" which is defecting also.


___
stephen.gue...@simtable.com 
CEO, Simtable  http://www.simtable.com
1600 Lena St #D1, Santa Fe, NM 87505
office: (505)995-0206 mobile: (505)577-5828
twitter: @simtable
z oom.simtable.com


On Sun, Nov 1, 2020 at 11:17 AM Stephen Guerin 
wrote:

> > I think the proper name is Conditional Association Strategy
>
> Yes, I think of Conditional Association Strategy as its "genus". There's
> an unspecified bit in the "genome" on the conditional behavior in that name
> that needs to be more specific to make it a species which could be either
> cooperate or defect. In the table from the paper, For example, there's
> three strategies of the "conditional association strategies" genus.
> Arguably the name MOTH is a name for the genus not the particular species.
> Note how NasMoth (NastyMoth) has that bit specified in the negative
> direction. We'd like the "dual" in the positive direction.
>
> A more particular name for the MOTH strategy might be something like a
> "HippieMoth" ethic where it seeks reciprocity in ooperative relationships
> and leaves when reciprocity is absent. Another name might be "Hippy-Dippy"
> which gives the sense of flightiness too. But I'm wondering if there's a
> better character analogue. It is a kind of golden rule for dynamic networks.
>
> [image: image.png]
>
> As we're writing some software and related whitepapers I want
> input/blessing as we consider tightening up the naming. Note how google's
> naming of PageRank  was helpful
> to communicate their approach.
>
> ___
> stephen.gue...@simtable.com 
> CEO, Simtable  http://www.simtable.com
> 1600 Lena St #D1, Santa Fe, NM 87505
> office: (505)995-0206 mobile: (505)577-5828
> twitter: @simtable
> z oom.simtable.com
>
>
> On Sun, Nov 1, 2020 at 10:14 AM  wrote:
>
>> I think the proper name is Conditional Association Strategy (as opposed
>> to a Condition Altruism Strategy.
>>
>>
>>
>> My original impulse was not .. um … prosocial.  I was pissed by the
>> extent to which the entire literature had gone down the Axelrod rat hole
>> with its totally unnatural assumptions and annoyed at my colleagues for
>> giving things cute names.  So, I thought, I can play this stupid game,
>> too.  And,  indeed, I could.  And SURPRISE! it’s still a stupid game, even
>> though I can play it.
>>
>>
>>
>> Nick
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Nicholas Thompson
>>
>> Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology
>>
>> Clark University
>>
>> thompnicks...@gmail.com
>>
>> https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Friam  *On Behalf Of *Stephen Guerin
>> *Sent:* Sunday, November 1, 2020 11:00 AM
>> *To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <
>> friam@redfish.com>
>> *Subject:* [FRIAM] What's in a name? MOTH to a Flame
>>
>>
>>
>> Nick,
>>
>>
>>
>> On a recent FRIAM you expressed mild regret on your naming of MOTH (My
>> Way or the Highway)
>>   http://jasss.soc.surrey.ac.uk/9/2/4.html
>>
>>
>>
>> *Given a chance to rename it what were some of the options over the
>> years?  Does the list have better suggestions?*
>>
>>
>>
>> Naming may seem trivial and arbitrary but it is important as this CS
>> aphorism attests .
>>   "There are 2 hard problems in computer science: cache invalidation,
>> naming things, and off-by-1 errors."
>>
>>
>>
>> For the list, MOTH is a winning strategy in an expanded Iterated
>> Prisoners Dilemma game where agents can leave a relationship during a round
>> in the tournament and be randomly assigned another unassociated agent. They
>> always cooperate and then leave if defected against. MOTH agents
>> unconditionally cooperate and conditionally associate.
>>
>>
>>
>> An example of an expanded TIT-FOR-TAT strategy in this game might be to
>> conditionally cooperate and unconditionally associate. ie cooperate until
>> defected against then switch to always defect and  stay in the association.
>> (think of a bad marriage without divorce).
>>
>>
>>
>> We continue to think MOTH remains an important simple heuristic for link
>> formation/maintenance in trust networks / decentralized systems. And naming
>> is important.
>>
>>
>>
>> -Stephen
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ___
>>
>> stephen.gue...@simtable.com 
>>
>> CEO, Simtable  http://www.simtable.com
>>
>> 1600 Lena St #D1, Santa Fe, NM 87505
>>
>> office: (505)995-0206 mobile: (505)577-5828
>>
>> twitter: @simtable
>>
>> z oom.simtable.com
>> -  . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-.  . .-. .
>> FRIAM Applied 

Re: [FRIAM] What's in a name? MOTH to a Flame

[Stephen Guerin]

> I think the proper name is Conditional Association Strategy

Yes, I think of Conditional Association Strategy as its "genus". There's an
unspecified bit in the "genome" on the conditional behavior in that name
that needs to be more specific to make it a species which could be either
cooperate or defect. In the table from the paper, For example, there's
three strategies of the "conditional association strategies" genus.
Arguably the name MOTH is a name for the genus not the particular species.
Note how NasMoth (NastyMoth) has that bit specified in the negative
direction. We'd like the "dual" in the positive direction.

A more particular name for the MOTH strategy might be something like a
"HippieMoth" ethic where it seeks reciprocity in ooperative relationships
and leaves when reciprocity is absent. Another name might be "Hippy-Dippy"
which gives the sense of flightiness too. But I'm wondering if there's a
better character analogue. It is a kind of golden rule for dynamic networks.

[image: image.png]

As we're writing some software and related whitepapers I want
input/blessing as we consider tightening up the naming. Note how google's
naming of PageRank  was helpful to
communicate their approach.

___
stephen.gue...@simtable.com 
CEO, Simtable  http://www.simtable.com
1600 Lena St #D1, Santa Fe, NM 87505
office: (505)995-0206 mobile: (505)577-5828
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On Sun, Nov 1, 2020 at 10:14 AM  wrote:

> I think the proper name is Conditional Association Strategy (as opposed to
> a Condition Altruism Strategy.
>
>
>
> My original impulse was not .. um … prosocial.  I was pissed by the extent
> to which the entire literature had gone down the Axelrod rat hole with its
> totally unnatural assumptions and annoyed at my colleagues for giving
> things cute names.  So, I thought, I can play this stupid game, too.  And,
> indeed, I could.  And SURPRISE! it’s still a stupid game, even though I can
> play it.
>
>
>
> Nick
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Nicholas Thompson
>
> Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology
>
> Clark University
>
> thompnicks...@gmail.com
>
> https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Friam  *On Behalf Of *Stephen Guerin
> *Sent:* Sunday, November 1, 2020 11:00 AM
> *To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <
> friam@redfish.com>
> *Subject:* [FRIAM] What's in a name? MOTH to a Flame
>
>
>
> Nick,
>
>
>
> On a recent FRIAM you expressed mild regret on your naming of MOTH (My Way
> or the Highway)
>   http://jasss.soc.surrey.ac.uk/9/2/4.html
>
>
>
> *Given a chance to rename it what were some of the options over the
> years?  Does the list have better suggestions?*
>
>
>
> Naming may seem trivial and arbitrary but it is important as this CS
> aphorism attests .
>   "There are 2 hard problems in computer science: cache invalidation,
> naming things, and off-by-1 errors."
>
>
>
> For the list, MOTH is a winning strategy in an expanded Iterated Prisoners
> Dilemma game where agents can leave a relationship during a round in the
> tournament and be randomly assigned another unassociated agent. They always
> cooperate and then leave if defected against. MOTH agents unconditionally
> cooperate and conditionally associate.
>
>
>
> An example of an expanded TIT-FOR-TAT strategy in this game might be to
> conditionally cooperate and unconditionally associate. ie cooperate until
> defected against then switch to always defect and  stay in the association.
> (think of a bad marriage without divorce).
>
>
>
> We continue to think MOTH remains an important simple heuristic for link
> formation/maintenance in trust networks / decentralized systems. And naming
> is important.
>
>
>
> -Stephen
>
>
>
>
>
> ___
>
> stephen.gue...@simtable.com 
>
> CEO, Simtable  http://www.simtable.com
>
> 1600 Lena St #D1, Santa Fe, NM 87505
>
> office: (505)995-0206 mobile: (505)577-5828
>
> twitter: @simtable
>
> z oom.simtable.com
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Re: [FRIAM] What's in a name? MOTH to a Flame

[thompnickson2]

I think the proper name is Conditional Association Strategy (as opposed to a 
Condition Altruism Strategy.  

 

My original impulse was not .. um … prosocial.  I was pissed by the extent to 
which the entire literature had gone down the Axelrod rat hole with its totally 
unnatural assumptions and annoyed at my colleagues for giving things cute 
names.  So, I thought, I can play this stupid game, too.  And,  indeed, I 
could.  And SURPRISE! it’s still a stupid game, even though I can play it.  

 

Nick 

 

 

 

Nicholas Thompson

Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology

Clark University

  thompnicks...@gmail.com

  
https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/

 

 

From: Friam  On Behalf Of Stephen Guerin
Sent: Sunday, November 1, 2020 11:00 AM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group 
Subject: [FRIAM] What's in a name? MOTH to a Flame

 

Nick,

 

On a recent FRIAM you expressed mild regret on your naming of MOTH (My Way or 
the Highway)
  http://jasss.soc.surrey.ac.uk/9/2/4.html

 

Given a chance to rename it what were some of the options over the years?  Does 
the list have better suggestions?

 

Naming may seem trivial and arbitrary but it is important as this CS aphorism 
attests  .
  "There are 2 hard problems in computer science: cache invalidation, 
naming things, and off-by-1 errors."

 

For the list, MOTH is a winning strategy in an expanded Iterated Prisoners 
Dilemma game where agents can leave a relationship during a round in the 
tournament and be randomly assigned another unassociated agent. They always 
cooperate and then leave if defected against. MOTH agents unconditionally 
cooperate and conditionally associate.

 

An example of an expanded TIT-FOR-TAT strategy in this game might be to 
conditionally cooperate and unconditionally associate. ie cooperate until 
defected against then switch to always defect and  stay in the association. 
(think of a bad marriage without divorce). 

 

We continue to think MOTH remains an important simple heuristic for link 
formation/maintenance in trust networks / decentralized systems. And naming is 
important.

 

-Stephen

 

 

___

stephen.gue...@simtable.com  

CEO, Simtable  http://www.simtable.com  

1600 Lena St #D1, Santa Fe, NM 87505

office: (505)995-0206 mobile: (505)577-5828

twitter: @simtable

z  oom.simtable.com  

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[FRIAM] What's in a name? MOTH to a Flame

[Stephen Guerin]

Nick,

On a recent FRIAM you expressed mild regret on your naming of MOTH (My Way
or the Highway)
  http://jasss.soc.surrey.ac.uk/9/2/4.html


*Given a chance to rename it what were some of the options over the years?
Does the list have better suggestions?*

Naming may seem trivial and arbitrary but it is important as this CS
aphorism attests .
  "There are 2 hard problems in computer science: cache invalidation,
naming things, and off-by-1 errors."

For the list, MOTH is a winning strategy in an expanded Iterated Prisoners
Dilemma game where agents can leave a relationship during a round in the
tournament and be randomly assigned another unassociated agent. They always
cooperate and then leave if defected against. MOTH agents unconditionally
cooperate and conditionally associate.

An example of an expanded TIT-FOR-TAT strategy in this game might be to
conditionally cooperate and unconditionally associate. ie cooperate until
defected against then switch to always defect and  stay in the association.
(think of a bad marriage without divorce).

We continue to think MOTH remains an important simple heuristic for link
formation/maintenance in trust networks / decentralized systems. And naming
is important.

-Stephen


___
stephen.gue...@simtable.com 
CEO, Simtable  http://www.simtable.com
1600 Lena St #D1, Santa Fe, NM 87505
office: (505)995-0206 mobile: (505)577-5828
twitter: @simtable
z oom.simtable.com
-  . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-.  . .-. .
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6  bit.ly/virtualfriam
un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/
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