Re: [FRIAM] truth-preserving math

2022-09-18 Thread Gillian Densmore 
Loci or Loki? :P

On Sun, Sep 18, 2022 at 10:21 AM Steve Smith  wrote:

>
> On 9/18/22 8:00 AM, glen∉ℂ wrote:
> > Even without the math, I think the main point is that of field vs
> > particle. We talk a lot about networks. But you can imagine a smooth
> > blob of goo (maybe like Silly Putty or pizza dough) being stretched
> > and kneaded such that some parts are hard-ish clumps and other parts
> > thin or splitting. That's what I'm thinking when I think about when a
> > positron and electron pop out from the fields.
>
> I appreciate this formulation.   I find myself thinking more in terms of
> "concentrated loci" in a high-dimensional field when I otherwise would
> think of "network" of atoms (or simples)... the "schwinger effect"
> article provided a good overview of this conception in an energy/mass
> field...  I'm (re)reading it now before "church" with St. Stephen of the
> Complexity Babble at Sopapilla factory...  maybe a margarita to smooth
> out the wave-particle distinctions...
>
> it's loci all the way down...
>
> >
> > On 9/17/22 13:01, Gillian Densmore wrote:
> >> I don't know nearly enough mind bending high levels abstract maths to
> >> have more than tons of questions. I thought information (in the math
> >> sense) 'just' meant 3 of something and you might know of what but the
> >> absolute value of that 3 is the piece of info your starting with, and
> >> keep from being mangled when working backwords to what that 3 is in
> >> the real world .  Or is this morein the spooky physics sense where if
> >> certain metals are made super duper cold you can levitetate trains
> >> kind of quantum mechanics??
> >>
> >> On Fri, Sep 16, 2022 at 11:00 AM glen∉ℂ  >> > wrote:
> >>
> >> 70-year-old quantum prediction comes true, as something is
> >> created from nothing
> >> https://bigthink.com/starts-with-a-bang/something-from-nothing/
> >> 
> >>
> >> It seems like this is another example where the arrogance of the
> >> abstraction reigns. Because the math relating holes and electrons is
> >> the same (?) as that relating electrons and positrons, does it mean
> >> studying one gives us insight into the other? Does the metaphysics
> >> really translate?
> >>
> >> Arrogant or not, it's super effing cool.
> >
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Re: [FRIAM] truth-preserving math

2022-09-18 Thread Steve Smith 


On 9/18/22 8:00 AM, glen∉ℂ wrote:
Even without the math, I think the main point is that of field vs 
particle. We talk a lot about networks. But you can imagine a smooth 
blob of goo (maybe like Silly Putty or pizza dough) being stretched 
and kneaded such that some parts are hard-ish clumps and other parts 
thin or splitting. That's what I'm thinking when I think about when a 
positron and electron pop out from the fields.


I appreciate this formulation.   I find myself thinking more in terms of 
"concentrated loci" in a high-dimensional field when I otherwise would 
think of "network" of atoms (or simples)... the "schwinger effect" 
article provided a good overview of this conception in an energy/mass 
field...  I'm (re)reading it now before "church" with St. Stephen of the 
Complexity Babble at Sopapilla factory...  maybe a margarita to smooth 
out the wave-particle distinctions...


it's loci all the way down...



On 9/17/22 13:01, Gillian Densmore wrote:
I don't know nearly enough mind bending high levels abstract maths to 
have more than tons of questions. I thought information (in the math 
sense) 'just' meant 3 of something and you might know of what but the 
absolute value of that 3 is the piece of info your starting with, and 
keep from being mangled when working backwords to what that 3 is in 
the real world .  Or is this morein the spooky physics sense where if 
certain metals are made super duper cold you can levitetate trains 
kind of quantum mechanics??


On Fri, Sep 16, 2022 at 11:00 AM glen∉ℂ > wrote:


    70-year-old quantum prediction comes true, as something is 
created from nothing
https://bigthink.com/starts-with-a-bang/something-from-nothing/ 



    It seems like this is another example where the arrogance of the 
abstraction reigns. Because the math relating holes and electrons is 
the same (?) as that relating electrons and positrons, does it mean 
studying one gives us insight into the other? Does the metaphysics 
really translate?


    Arrogant or not, it's super effing cool.


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Re: [FRIAM] truth-preserving math

2022-09-18 Thread Gillian Densmore 
Gotcha!

On Sun, Sep 18, 2022 at 8:00 AM glen∉ℂ  wrote:

> Even without the math, I think the main point is that of field vs
> particle. We talk a lot about networks. But you can imagine a smooth blob
> of goo (maybe like Silly Putty or pizza dough) being stretched and kneaded
> such that some parts are hard-ish clumps and other parts thin or splitting.
> That's what I'm thinking when I think about when a positron and electron
> pop out from the fields.
>
> On 9/17/22 13:01, Gillian Densmore wrote:
> > I don't know nearly enough mind bending high levels abstract maths to
> have more than tons of questions. I thought information (in the math sense)
> 'just' meant 3 of something and you might know of what but the
> absolute value of that 3 is the piece of info your starting with, and
> keep from being mangled when working backwords to what that 3 is in the
> real world .  Or is this morein the spooky physics sense where if certain
> metals are made super duper cold you can levitetate trains kind of quantum
> mechanics??
> >
> > On Fri, Sep 16, 2022 at 11:00 AM glen∉ℂ  geprope...@gmail.com>> wrote:
> >
> > 70-year-old quantum prediction comes true, as something is created
> from nothing
> > https://bigthink.com/starts-with-a-bang/something-from-nothing/ <
> https://bigthink.com/starts-with-a-bang/something-from-nothing/>
> >
> > It seems like this is another example where the arrogance of the
> abstraction reigns. Because the math relating holes and electrons is the
> same (?) as that relating electrons and positrons, does it mean studying
> one gives us insight into the other? Does the metaphysics really translate?
> >
> > Arrogant or not, it's super effing cool.
>
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Re: [FRIAM] truth-preserving math

2022-09-18 Thread glen∉ℂ 

Even without the math, I think the main point is that of field vs particle. We 
talk a lot about networks. But you can imagine a smooth blob of goo (maybe like 
Silly Putty or pizza dough) being stretched and kneaded such that some parts 
are hard-ish clumps and other parts thin or splitting. That's what I'm thinking 
when I think about when a positron and electron pop out from the fields.

On 9/17/22 13:01, Gillian Densmore wrote:

I don't know nearly enough mind bending high levels abstract maths to have more 
than tons of questions. I thought information (in the math sense) 'just' meant 
3 of something and you might know of what but the absolute value of that 3 is 
the piece of info your starting with, and keep from being mangled when working 
backwords to what that 3 is in the real world .  Or is this morein the spooky 
physics sense where if certain metals are made super duper cold you can 
levitetate trains kind of quantum mechanics??

On Fri, Sep 16, 2022 at 11:00 AM glen∉ℂ mailto:geprope...@gmail.com>> wrote:

70-year-old quantum prediction comes true, as something is created from 
nothing
https://bigthink.com/starts-with-a-bang/something-from-nothing/ 


It seems like this is another example where the arrogance of the 
abstraction reigns. Because the math relating holes and electrons is the same 
(?) as that relating electrons and positrons, does it mean studying one gives 
us insight into the other? Does the metaphysics really translate?

Arrogant or not, it's super effing cool.


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Re: [FRIAM] truth-preserving math

2022-09-17 Thread Gillian Densmore 
Thanks franks ^_^

On Sat, Sep 17, 2022 at 2:13 PM Frank Wimberly  wrote:

> 3 is {0, {0}, {0, {0}}} according to one approach to a using sets to form
> numbers that satisfy the Peano axioms.  In that approach 0 and the empty
> set are identical.
>
>
>
> ---
> Frank C. Wimberly
> 140 Calle Ojo Feliz,
> Santa Fe, NM 87505
>
> 505 670-9918
> Santa Fe, NM
>
> On Sat, Sep 17, 2022, 2:02 PM Gillian Densmore 
> wrote:
>
>> I don't know nearly enough mind bending high levels abstract maths to
>> have more than tons of questions. I thought information (in the math sense)
>> 'just' meant 3 of something and you might know of what but the
>> absolute value of that 3 is the piece of info your starting with, and
>> keep from being mangled when working backwords to what that 3 is in the
>> real world .  Or is this morein the spooky physics sense where if certain
>> metals are made super duper cold you can levitetate trains kind of quantum
>> mechanics??
>>
>> On Fri, Sep 16, 2022 at 11:00 AM glen∉ℂ  wrote:
>>
>>> 70-year-old quantum prediction comes true, as something is created from
>>> nothing
>>> https://bigthink.com/starts-with-a-bang/something-from-nothing/
>>>
>>> It seems like this is another example where the arrogance of the
>>> abstraction reigns. Because the math relating holes and electrons is the
>>> same (?) as that relating electrons and positrons, does it mean studying
>>> one gives us insight into the other? Does the metaphysics really translate?
>>>
>>> Arrogant or not, it's super effing cool.
>>>
>>> -. --- - / ...- .- .-.. .. -.. / -- --- .-. ... . / -.-. --- -.. .
>>> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
>>> Fridays 9a-12p Friday St. Johns Cafe   /   Thursdays 9a-12p Zoom
>>> https://bit.ly/virtualfriam
>>> to (un)subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
>>> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/
>>> archives:  5/2017 thru present
>>> https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/
>>>   1/2003 thru 6/2021  http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/
>>>
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Re: [FRIAM] truth-preserving math

2022-09-17 Thread Frank Wimberly 
3 is {0, {0}, {0, {0}}} according to one approach to a using sets to form
numbers that satisfy the Peano axioms.  In that approach 0 and the empty
set are identical.



---
Frank C. Wimberly
140 Calle Ojo Feliz,
Santa Fe, NM 87505

505 670-9918
Santa Fe, NM

On Sat, Sep 17, 2022, 2:02 PM Gillian Densmore 
wrote:

> I don't know nearly enough mind bending high levels abstract maths to have
> more than tons of questions. I thought information (in the math sense)
> 'just' meant 3 of something and you might know of what but the
> absolute value of that 3 is the piece of info your starting with, and
> keep from being mangled when working backwords to what that 3 is in the
> real world .  Or is this morein the spooky physics sense where if certain
> metals are made super duper cold you can levitetate trains kind of quantum
> mechanics??
>
> On Fri, Sep 16, 2022 at 11:00 AM glen∉ℂ  wrote:
>
>> 70-year-old quantum prediction comes true, as something is created from
>> nothing
>> https://bigthink.com/starts-with-a-bang/something-from-nothing/
>>
>> It seems like this is another example where the arrogance of the
>> abstraction reigns. Because the math relating holes and electrons is the
>> same (?) as that relating electrons and positrons, does it mean studying
>> one gives us insight into the other? Does the metaphysics really translate?
>>
>> Arrogant or not, it's super effing cool.
>>
>> -. --- - / ...- .- .-.. .. -.. / -- --- .-. ... . / -.-. --- -.. .
>> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
>> Fridays 9a-12p Friday St. Johns Cafe   /   Thursdays 9a-12p Zoom
>> https://bit.ly/virtualfriam
>> to (un)subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
>> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/
>> archives:  5/2017 thru present
>> https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/
>>   1/2003 thru 6/2021  http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/
>>
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Re: [FRIAM] truth-preserving math

2022-09-17 Thread Gillian Densmore 
I don't know nearly enough mind bending high levels abstract maths to have
more than tons of questions. I thought information (in the math sense)
'just' meant 3 of something and you might know of what but the
absolute value of that 3 is the piece of info your starting with, and
keep from being mangled when working backwords to what that 3 is in the
real world .  Or is this morein the spooky physics sense where if certain
metals are made super duper cold you can levitetate trains kind of quantum
mechanics??

On Fri, Sep 16, 2022 at 11:00 AM glen∉ℂ  wrote:

> 70-year-old quantum prediction comes true, as something is created from
> nothing
> https://bigthink.com/starts-with-a-bang/something-from-nothing/
>
> It seems like this is another example where the arrogance of the
> abstraction reigns. Because the math relating holes and electrons is the
> same (?) as that relating electrons and positrons, does it mean studying
> one gives us insight into the other? Does the metaphysics really translate?
>
> Arrogant or not, it's super effing cool.
>
> -. --- - / ...- .- .-.. .. -.. / -- --- .-. ... . / -.-. --- -.. .
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> Fridays 9a-12p Friday St. Johns Cafe   /   Thursdays 9a-12p Zoom
> https://bit.ly/virtualfriam
> to (un)subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/
> archives:  5/2017 thru present
> https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/
>   1/2003 thru 6/2021  http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/
>
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Re: [FRIAM] truth-preserving math

2022-09-16 Thread Jon Zingale 
Thank you for this article. Subject matter related to quantum fields,
the Schwinger effect and the Casimir effect are very much where my mind has
been lately. I continue an attempt to reconcile recent thoughts on the
different candidate GUTs, the resolution of infinite contributions of
virtual particle energies, analytic continuation and the Riemann zeta
function to some ephemeral thoughts I have on continuum computation,
derivatives of Turing machines, Gödel, and possible thermodynamic
limitations of infinitesimal bits. It would be really great if these ideas
would settle into something tangible. I would like to contribute something
to that discussion.
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[FRIAM] truth-preserving math

2022-09-16 Thread glen∉ℂ 

70-year-old quantum prediction comes true, as something is created from nothing
https://bigthink.com/starts-with-a-bang/something-from-nothing/

It seems like this is another example where the arrogance of the abstraction 
reigns. Because the math relating holes and electrons is the same (?) as that 
relating electrons and positrons, does it mean studying one gives us insight 
into the other? Does the metaphysics really translate?

Arrogant or not, it's super effing cool.

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