Re: [fricas-devel] future community collaboration tool (deprecating fricas-devel maillist)

2022-04-26 Thread James Cloos
> "MA" == "'Nasser M Abbasi' via FriCAS <- computer algebra system" 
> > writes:

MA> May be someone can explain how to subscribe 
MA> to https://groups.google.com/g/fricas-devel  via email

I posted this yesterday, but do not see it on the list

subscribe by sending an email to fricas-devel+subscr...@googlegroups.com
and then rely to the confirmation request the send in return.

-JimC
-- 
James Cloos  OpenPGP: 0x997A9F17ED7DAEA6

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Re: [fricas-devel] future community collaboration tool (deprecating fricas-devel maillist)

2022-04-26 Thread Ralf Hemmecke
I am unable to create a google account in android 9 in a virtualbox 
without being forced to give a phone number for an sms.


Actually, the docs at google.com (at least in german) say that the phone 
number is optional, but they don't let me continue if I leave the field 
empty.


Ralf

On 26.04.22 02:15, oldk1331 wrote:



Well, Bill, try to setup a new google account. I had a discussion with
Waldek some time ago and was surprised that (maybe from 2022 on) I am no
longer able to create a google or gmail account without providing a
phone number. If you know how one could do this, I'd be interested to know.



Hi Ralf, one way that I know to create Gmail account without phone number
(at least a few months ago) is that, create a new user in Android phone
(or Android VM, I presume).

- Best,
- Qian



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Re: [fricas-devel] future community collaboration tool (deprecating fricas-devel maillist)

2022-04-26 Thread Ralf Hemmecke

On 26.04.22 02:47, 'Nasser M. Abbasi' via FriCAS - computer algebra
system wrote:
May be someone can explain how to subscribe to 
https://groups.google.com/g/fricas-devel via email


Isn't it what I said yesterday?
https://www.mail-archive.com/fricas-devel@googlegroups.com/msg14458.html

To make it more concrete:

Send and email-address to

  fricas-devel-subscr...@hemmecke.org

and I will try to subscribe you. Since I will have to do this for the
first time, I cannot claim that I do everything correctly.

If everything works out fine, I'll put that information onto
fricas.github.io.

or by using nntp.aioe.org?  Since Fricas does NOT show up as 
newsgroup on nntp.aioe.org.  I have to login to google each time to 
post here.  (but had to create a google account to do this).


I am not aware that any FriCAS developer claimed that fricas-devel can 
be used via nntp.aloe.org. I am also not aware that ever someone asked 
(via private mail to one of the developers) to make that possible. I 
would anyway have no idea how to set this up.


But for say sci.math.symbolic, I can access it from 
news://nntp.aioe.org:119/sci.math.symbolic  via my email reader 
(thunderbird) via nntp.aioe.org and hence I do not need to login to 
google to read and write to  sci.math.symbolic new group. It will be 
nice to do the same here.


FriCAS is a project run by people on a voluntary basis. You cannot 
expect that FriCAS developers can do everything. It is always welcome if 
some new person steps in and helps. Everything that helps to spread 
FriCAS is welcome. So the best way is to step in yourself and try to 
find out how to do it and then do it.


Ralf

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Re: [fricas-devel] future community collaboration tool (deprecating fricas-devel maillist)

2022-04-25 Thread Bill Page
I haven't done this is a long time but you could try sending an email like this:
---
To: 
Subject: subscribe
subscribe
---

On Mon, 25 Apr 2022 at 20:48, 'Nasser M. Abbasi' via FriCAS - computer
algebra system  wrote:
>
> May be someone can explain how to subscribe to 
> https://groups.google.com/g/fricas-devel  via email, or by using 
> nntp.aioe.org?  Since Fricas does NOT show up as newsgroup on  nntp.aioe.org. 
>  I have to login to google each time to post here.  (but had to create a 
> google account to do this).
>
> But for say sci.math.symbolic, I can access it from 
> news://nntp.aioe.org:119/sci.math.symbolic  via my email reader (thunderbird) 
> via nntp.aioe.org and hence I do not need to login to google to read and 
> write to  sci.math.symbolic new group. It will be nice to do the same here.
>
> May be someone can explain, easy to follow step by step, how one can read and 
> write here without having to login to google first?
>
> On Monday, April 25, 2022 at 7:15:06 PM UTC-5 oldk1331 wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> Well, Bill, try to setup a new google account. I had a discussion with
>>> Waldek some time ago and was surprised that (maybe from 2022 on) I am no
>>> longer able to create a google or gmail account without providing a
>>> phone number. If you know how one could do this, I'd be interested to know.
>>
>>
>> Hi Ralf, one way that I know to create Gmail account without phone number
>> (at least a few months ago) is that, create a new user in Android phone
>> (or Android VM, I presume).
>>
>> - Best,
>> - Qian
>>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "FriCAS - computer algebra system" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to fricas-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To view this discussion on the web visit 
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/fricas-devel/d67b42bd-612e-4645-875f-888a5d7d9ed4n%40googlegroups.com.

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Re: [fricas-devel] future community collaboration tool (deprecating fricas-devel maillist)

2022-04-25 Thread 'Nasser M. Abbasi' via FriCAS - computer algebra system
fyi,

Waldek has mentioned this issue sometime ago at sci.math.symbolic,  here 
the direct link to his post

https://groups.google.com/g/sci.math.symbolic/c/4zljP9WGeCI/m/tRJIzvRqAQAJ



On Monday, April 25, 2022 at 7:48:00 PM UTC-5 Nasser M. Abbasi wrote:

> May be someone can explain how to subscribe to 
> https://groups.google.com/g/fricas-devel  via email, or by using 
> nntp.aioe.org?  Since Fricas does NOT show up as newsgroup on  
> nntp.aioe.org.  I have to login to google each time to post here.  (but 
> had to create a google account to do this). 
>
> But for say sci.math.symbolic, I can access it from news://
> nntp.aioe.org:119/sci.math.symbolic  via my email reader (thunderbird) 
> via nntp.aioe.org and hence I do not need to login to google to read and 
> write to  sci.math.symbolic new group. It will be nice to do the same here.
>
> May be someone can explain, easy to follow step by step, how one can read 
> and write here without having to login to google first?  
>
> On Monday, April 25, 2022 at 7:15:06 PM UTC-5 oldk1331 wrote:
>
>>
>>> Well, Bill, try to setup a new google account. I had a discussion with 
>>> Waldek some time ago and was surprised that (maybe from 2022 on) I am no 
>>> longer able to create a google or gmail account without providing a 
>>> phone number. If you know how one could do this, I'd be interested to 
>>> know.
>>>
>>
>> Hi Ralf, one way that I know to create Gmail account without phone number
>> (at least a few months ago) is that, create a new user in Android phone
>> (or Android VM, I presume).
>>
>> - Best,
>> - Qian
>>
>>

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Re: [fricas-devel] future community collaboration tool (deprecating fricas-devel maillist)

2022-04-25 Thread 'Nasser M. Abbasi' via FriCAS - computer algebra system
May be someone can explain how to subscribe 
to https://groups.google.com/g/fricas-devel  via email, or by using 
nntp.aioe.org?  Since Fricas does NOT show up as newsgroup on  
nntp.aioe.org.  I have to login to google each time to post here.  (but had 
to create a google account to do this). 

But for say sci.math.symbolic, I can access it 
from news://nntp.aioe.org:119/sci.math.symbolic  via my email reader 
(thunderbird) via nntp.aioe.org and hence I do not need to login to google 
to read and write to  sci.math.symbolic new group. It will be nice to do 
the same here.

May be someone can explain, easy to follow step by step, how one can read 
and write here without having to login to google first?  

On Monday, April 25, 2022 at 7:15:06 PM UTC-5 oldk1331 wrote:

>
>> Well, Bill, try to setup a new google account. I had a discussion with 
>> Waldek some time ago and was surprised that (maybe from 2022 on) I am no 
>> longer able to create a google or gmail account without providing a 
>> phone number. If you know how one could do this, I'd be interested to 
>> know.
>>
>
> Hi Ralf, one way that I know to create Gmail account without phone number
> (at least a few months ago) is that, create a new user in Android phone
> (or Android VM, I presume).
>
> - Best,
> - Qian
>
>

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Re: [fricas-devel] future community collaboration tool (deprecating fricas-devel maillist)

2022-04-25 Thread oldk1331
>
>
> Well, Bill, try to setup a new google account. I had a discussion with
> Waldek some time ago and was surprised that (maybe from 2022 on) I am no
> longer able to create a google or gmail account without providing a
> phone number. If you know how one could do this, I'd be interested to know.
>

Hi Ralf, one way that I know to create Gmail account without phone number
(at least a few months ago) is that, create a new user in Android phone
(or Android VM, I presume).

- Best,
- Qian

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Re: [fricas-devel] future community collaboration tool (deprecating fricas-devel maillist)

2022-04-25 Thread Ralf Hemmecke

So I asked him privately via email, and he replied that he can't
reply/receive to fricas-devel, because Google wants cell number.



This seems extremely odd to me.


Also to me. Google does not have a phone number from me, in fact, 
without a mobile phone I could not even give one. ;-)


Google sometimes tries to convince me to provide a phone number, if they 
force me to give one, I must give up my google account.



So far as I know this isn't even necessary if you actually have a
gmail account. Rather, it is perhaps an option in this case if you
want to use 2-factor authentication.


Well, Bill, try to setup a new google account. I had a discussion with 
Waldek some time ago and was surprised that (maybe from 2022 on) I am no 
longer able to create a google or gmail account without providing a 
phone number. If you know how one could do this, I'd be interested to know.


I use the fricas-devel list in the same way as Bill. I almost never 
login to the webinterface. And since we have


 https://www.mail-archive.com/fricas-devel@googlegroups.com/

there is no need for a google login. And the list is searchable.


Although of course I want Waldek to participate in the FriCAS group
but it seems strange to me if Waldek is the only user experiencing
this problem. Perhaps it can be resolved just by accessing the group
in a different way, i.e. by email.


Waldek is now subscribed at fricas-devel with a an email ending in 
@gtempaccount.com. That looks to me that he has changed his email and 
maybe this is the source of his problem. Unfortunately, I have only 
heard about google wanting a phone number, but not whether Waldek still 
receives mail from fricas-devel.


To fix the problem of not being able to receive mails from fricas-devel 
or post to it would be good, to learn a bit more about how this all came 
about.


Today I have tested with Dima on another google mailing list, that it is 
actually not necessary at all to have a google account in order to post 
to the group or receive emails from it. The list owner (which is 
currently Waldek, Bill and me can add people to the group with any email 
address.


So my suggestion is, we continue using fricas-devel as always and put a 
note to fricas.github.io, that everyone who does not want to create a 
google account sends an email to me and I will manually add them. I'm 
sure that I will not be overburdened by this task.


Waldek, give me some email-address and I will add you to fricas-devel 
and you can use our mailing list as before.



To quote Waldek's opinion:

  > ATM I am not sure what is better.  One possiblity is to
  > set up our own mail server.  I could do this on the
  > same machine as wiki.


I am strongly against it. That only causes needless maintenance work and 
would run on a very old debian.



Of course we could use GitHub

  > mail.  However, it is not clear what folks on the list
  > want.  For me old plain e-mail is preferable and also
  > I would like sensible publicaly visible archive.


Exactly. We can continue as always. I just use my local mailreader to 
communicate with fricas-devel.



Personally I prefer GitHub.  Waldek replies with:

  > Well, GitHub web interface mangles code which is IMO serious problem.
  > That is why I wrote "sensible publicaly visible archive", AFAICS
  > GitHub does not qualify as "sensible" here.



But I think GitHub uses markdown, and  code block should solve it.


Yes. Wrapping code in

```
some code
here
```
is an easy exercise. But I must admit that I would also be happier if 
github offered a way to simply post in ASCII. However, Markdown is 
reasonably simple enough.



GitHub would be fine with me if this is really necessary. But I think
it is also very common to use GitHub with the 2-factor authentication
option (at least I do) in which case a cell phone will usually also be
involved.


The good thing with using git as a repository format is that we are not 
bound to any particular provider. We would just have to declare one 
particular clone to be the official one. And only for that reason I 
initially wanted github. I still don't use many features from github, 
but I see a clear advantage to have some kind of issue tracker that 
allows for discussions on a particularly numbered issue. In fact, I very 
much like that the issues are visible and not hidden in the noise of the 
mailing list.


Everything should stay as is, but we should resolve Waldek's problem 
with the mailing list. I'm pretty sure we can handle this to his liking.


Ralf

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Re: [fricas-devel] future community collaboration tool (deprecating fricas-devel maillist)

2022-04-25 Thread Dima Pasechnik
On Mon, Apr 25, 2022 at 7:04 PM Bill Page  wrote:
>
> On Sun, 24 Apr 2022 at 23:48, Qian Yun  wrote:
> >
> > Hello everyone on fricas-devel:
> >
> > You may have noticed that Waldek has not posted on fricas-devel
> > for a while now.  He has replied to GitHub issues in the mean
> > time however.
> >
> > So I asked him privately via email, and he replied that he can't
> > reply/receive to fricas-devel, because Google wants cell number.
> >
>
> This seems extremely odd to me. Perhaps there is just some confusion
> on how to use Google Groups. I never (well, almost never) use Google
> Groups directly. All postings on the FriCAS group are sent to me by
> simple email (such as this one) and my replies (such as this one) are
> sent to the FriCAS group as an email. I have used the FriCAS group
> this way since the beginning. So I am seriously confused if someone
> claims "Google wants cell number". I never gave Google my cell number.
> So far as I know this isn't even necessary if you actually have a
> gmail account. Rather, it is perhaps an option in this case if you
> want to use 2-factor authentication.

One absolutey does not need a cell phone (or a special hardware token) for 2FA.
You can use a very fine console program called "pass" and its "otp"
extension. It uses gpg to encypt your keys. You an also use git to
share your enrypted keys
accross different machines.
E.g. on Debian one would install package pass-extension-otp for this.

> > And with his permission, I'm asking community members for opinions
> > that which tool share we use instead.
> >
>
> Although of course I want Waldek to participate in the FriCAS group
> but it seems strange to me if Waldek is the only user experiencing
> this problem. Perhaps it can be resolved just by accessing the group
> in a different way, i.e. by email.
>
> > To quote Waldek's opinion:
> >
> >  > ATM I am not sure what is better.  One possiblity is to
> >  > set up our own mail server.  I could do this on the
> >  > same machine as wiki.  Of course we could use GitHub
> >  > mail.  However, it is not clear what folks on the list
> >  > want.  For me old plain e-mail is preferable and also
> >  > I would like sensible publicaly visible archive.
> >
> > Personally I prefer GitHub.  Waldek replies with:
> >
> >  > Well, GitHub web interface mangles code which is IMO serious problem.
> >  > That is why I wrote "sensible publicaly visible archive", AFAICS
> >  > GitHub does not qualify as "sensible" here.
> >
> > But I think GitHub uses markdown, and  code block should solve it.
> >
>
> GitHub would be fine with me if this is really necessary. But I think
> it is also very common to use GitHub with the 2-factor authentication
> option (at least I do) in which case a cell phone will usually also be
> involved.

No, no need for a phone for 2FA, see above.

HTH
Dima


>
> > So, members of fricas community, let your opinions be heard,
> > and hopefully a satisfying decision will be made based on that.
> >
>
> Thank you for your effort to resolve the problem!
>
> > - Best,
> > - Qian
> >
> > --
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> > "FriCAS - computer algebra system" group.
> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> > email to fricas-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> > To view this discussion on the web visit 
> > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/fricas-devel/25f37615-32ea-1ca5-5204-83a81ee3e0b2%40gmail.com.
>
> You can notice above the postscript that Google Groups adds when
> sending group postings by email. I never use the link to "view this
> discussion on the web".
>
> Regards,
> Bill Page.
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "FriCAS - computer algebra system" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to fricas-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To view this discussion on the web visit 
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/fricas-devel/CAC6x94RPA%2BB9ML_SWCt6gtyDrw0HAi0rnEp-fVqTbkhrj1QaZg%40mail.gmail.com.

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Re: [fricas-devel] future community collaboration tool (deprecating fricas-devel maillist)

2022-04-25 Thread Bill Page
On Sun, 24 Apr 2022 at 23:48, Qian Yun  wrote:
>
> Hello everyone on fricas-devel:
>
> You may have noticed that Waldek has not posted on fricas-devel
> for a while now.  He has replied to GitHub issues in the mean
> time however.
>
> So I asked him privately via email, and he replied that he can't
> reply/receive to fricas-devel, because Google wants cell number.
>

This seems extremely odd to me. Perhaps there is just some confusion
on how to use Google Groups. I never (well, almost never) use Google
Groups directly. All postings on the FriCAS group are sent to me by
simple email (such as this one) and my replies (such as this one) are
sent to the FriCAS group as an email. I have used the FriCAS group
this way since the beginning. So I am seriously confused if someone
claims "Google wants cell number". I never gave Google my cell number.
So far as I know this isn't even necessary if you actually have a
gmail account. Rather, it is perhaps an option in this case if you
want to use 2-factor authentication.

> And with his permission, I'm asking community members for opinions
> that which tool share we use instead.
>

Although of course I want Waldek to participate in the FriCAS group
but it seems strange to me if Waldek is the only user experiencing
this problem. Perhaps it can be resolved just by accessing the group
in a different way, i.e. by email.

> To quote Waldek's opinion:
>
>  > ATM I am not sure what is better.  One possiblity is to
>  > set up our own mail server.  I could do this on the
>  > same machine as wiki.  Of course we could use GitHub
>  > mail.  However, it is not clear what folks on the list
>  > want.  For me old plain e-mail is preferable and also
>  > I would like sensible publicaly visible archive.
>
> Personally I prefer GitHub.  Waldek replies with:
>
>  > Well, GitHub web interface mangles code which is IMO serious problem.
>  > That is why I wrote "sensible publicaly visible archive", AFAICS
>  > GitHub does not qualify as "sensible" here.
>
> But I think GitHub uses markdown, and  code block should solve it.
>

GitHub would be fine with me if this is really necessary. But I think
it is also very common to use GitHub with the 2-factor authentication
option (at least I do) in which case a cell phone will usually also be
involved.

> So, members of fricas community, let your opinions be heard,
> and hopefully a satisfying decision will be made based on that.
>

Thank you for your effort to resolve the problem!

> - Best,
> - Qian
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "FriCAS - computer algebra system" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to fricas-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To view this discussion on the web visit 
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/fricas-devel/25f37615-32ea-1ca5-5204-83a81ee3e0b2%40gmail.com.

You can notice above the postscript that Google Groups adds when
sending group postings by email. I never use the link to "view this
discussion on the web".

Regards,
Bill Page.

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Re: [fricas-devel] future community collaboration tool (deprecating fricas-devel maillist)

2022-04-25 Thread Dima Pasechnik
On Mon, 25 Apr 2022, 04:48 Qian Yun,  wrote:

> Hello everyone on fricas-devel:
>
> You may have noticed that Waldek has not posted on fricas-devel
> for a while now.  He has replied to GitHub issues in the mean
> time however.
>
> So I asked him privately via email, and he replied that he can't
> reply/receive to fricas-devel, because Google wants cell number.
>

one can use Google Groups without a Google account, using an email, or a
web interface.



> And with his permission, I'm asking community members for opinions
> that which tool share we use instead.
>
> To quote Waldek's opinion:
>
>  > ATM I am not sure what is better.  One possiblity is to
>  > set up our own mail server.  I could do this on the
>  > same machine as wiki.


please don't. This is much work nowadays to keep it running smoothly, and
it needs a central archive, too.

Of course we could use GitHub
>  > mail.  However, it is not clear what folks on the list
>  > want.  For me old plain e-mail is preferable and also
>  > I would like sensible publicaly visible archive.
>
> Personally I prefer GitHub.  Waldek replies with:
>
>  > Well, GitHub web interface mangles code which is IMO serious problem.
>  > That is why I wrote "sensible publicaly visible archive", AFAICS
>  > GitHub does not qualify as "sensible" here.
>
> But I think GitHub uses markdown, and  code block should solve it.
>

indeed, GitHub's Discussions are good, and allow all the formatting allowed
in its Issues.


https://docs.github.com/en/discussions/collaborating-with-your-community-using-discussions/about-discussions


> So, members of fricas community, let your opinions be heard,
> and hopefully a satisfying decision will be made based on that.
>
> - Best,
> - Qian
>
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>

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[fricas-devel] future community collaboration tool (deprecating fricas-devel maillist)

2022-04-24 Thread Qian Yun

Hello everyone on fricas-devel:

You may have noticed that Waldek has not posted on fricas-devel
for a while now.  He has replied to GitHub issues in the mean
time however.

So I asked him privately via email, and he replied that he can't
reply/receive to fricas-devel, because Google wants cell number.

And with his permission, I'm asking community members for opinions
that which tool share we use instead.

To quote Waldek's opinion:

> ATM I am not sure what is better.  One possiblity is to
> set up our own mail server.  I could do this on the
> same machine as wiki.  Of course we could use GitHub
> mail.  However, it is not clear what folks on the list
> want.  For me old plain e-mail is preferable and also
> I would like sensible publicaly visible archive.

Personally I prefer GitHub.  Waldek replies with:

> Well, GitHub web interface mangles code which is IMO serious problem.
> That is why I wrote "sensible publicaly visible archive", AFAICS
> GitHub does not qualify as "sensible" here.

But I think GitHub uses markdown, and  code block should solve it.

So, members of fricas community, let your opinions be heard,
and hopefully a satisfying decision will be made based on that.

- Best,
- Qian

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