Re: [Full-disclosure] Nipper licensing
Hi, > You going to share that perl code so that we can help you make it even > better? I believe in Open Source - GPL or BSD - and the best way to make a better place is to release code and allow as many skilled people to work on it as possible. the internet would be dead without such philosophy. I can understand the authors private reasons for the change in Nipper but the pros/cons of GPL were surely known from the early days? not sure how making it 100% commercial will help - the old version is out there and is useful (with some niggles)..i expect some person will fork it.. call it 'slipper' or somesuch. A better route would be the 'make a commercial version' with more features, support, etc. regarding OS - unlss i work on it privately and start from scratch then my paymasters need to agree on IP/copyright :-| alan ___ Full-Disclosure - We believe in it. Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/
Re: [Full-disclosure] Nipper licensing
You going to share that perl code so that we can help you make it even better? On Sep 2, 2009, at 4:16 AM, Alan Buxey wrote: > Hi, > >> Nipper Unlimited devices 1 Year £7000 > > > > ouch. a couple of years ago we had some home-brew code doing the > job. Nipper > came along...was free..and did everything we did + a little more. > > but now it looks like we'll be picking up our old Perl code and > fixing it up > to do everything that Nipper does - and a little more. > > :-( > > > alan > > ___ > Full-Disclosure - We believe in it. > Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html > Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/ Adriel T. Desautels ad_li...@netragard.com -- Subscribe to our blog http://snosoft.blogspot.com ___ Full-Disclosure - We believe in it. Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/
Re: [Full-disclosure] Nipper licensing
No, since the Nipper 0.11.x release series Nipper has included commercial use clauses in its license. On Wednesday 02 September 2009 12:32:46 dpcyb...@gmail.com wrote: > Um...so what I think I am hearing is that all versions less than 1.0, > including 0.12.6 are not commercial, right? > > > Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry > > -Original Message- > From: Fizz > > Date: Wed, 2 Sep 2009 12:16:31 > To: > Subject: Re: [Full-disclosure] Nipper licensing > > > It has cost me a *LOT* of money to develop Nipper. Network devices are very > expensive as I am sure everyone knows. It also took me a *LOT* of time to > develop Nipper. It is also true that a lot of companies use Nipper to to > make money, such as auditing companies and internal IT departments. > > During that time only 1 person has ever seen the need to donate to the > project, even though it makes money for a *LOT* of businesses. > > Nipper has had commercial licensing exclusions for a little while now. > Version 1 is now released as a full commercial version. This means that > companies who benefit from using Nipper will now have to pay a licence fee. > This fee will enable the purchase of more expensive network devices and > further improve Nipper. > > NOTE: Home users will be able to continue to use Nipper for free. > > Nipper is a complex program that supports almost 30 devices in its present > release. Nipper 1 has almost twice the number of code lines from the > previous version and over triple that of the one before. It is not a simple > grep of a configuration file and it audits a huge number of different > settings and protocols. > > Ian Ventura-Whiting > > On Wednesday 02 September 2009 10:48:42 Eric Sesterhenn wrote: > > * BMF (badmotherfs...@gmail.com) wrote: > > > On Wed, Sep 2, 2009 at 1:16 AM, Alan Buxey > > wrote: > > > > ouch. a couple of years ago we had some home-brew code doing the job. > > > > Nipper > > > > came along...was free..and did everything we did + a little more. > > > > > > > > but now it looks like we'll be picking up our old Perl code and > > > > fixing it up > > > > to do everything that Nipper does - and a little more. > > > > > > Was Nipper not available as source and licensed so it could be forked > > > in an event such as this? If not, consider it an object lesson in free > > > as in beer vs free as in speech. > > > > LICENSE file for nipper-cli 0.12.0 and libnipper 0.12.6 states: > > > > THIS IS IMPORTANT: > > > > libNipper and all other Nipper products are licensed under the GPL > > version 3 with the following exceptions. > > > > 1. The code cannot be used as part of a commercial product. A commercial > >license can be arranged for the integration of Nipper with a > > commercial product. Contact f...@titania.co.uk for commercial licensing > > information. > > > > 2. Any code that integrates Nipper MUST display the following copyright > >information with the programs own copyright information: > > > >Nipper Copyright (C) 2006 - 2008 by Ian Ventura-Whiting > > > >In order to maintain the latest copyright information for each > > libNipper release, this information can be extracted using the API. > > > > > > Nipper is distributed in the hope that it will be useful, but WITHOUT ANY > > WARRANTY; without even the implied warranty of MERCHANTABILITY or FITNESS > > FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE. See the GNU General Public License v3 (below) > > for more details. > > > > Regards, Eric > > > > ___ > > Full-Disclosure - We believe in it. > > Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html > > Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/ > > ___ > Full-Disclosure - We believe in it. > Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html > Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/ > ___ > Full-Disclosure - We believe in it. > Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html > Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/ ___ Full-Disclosure - We believe in it. Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/
Re: [Full-disclosure] Nipper licensing
On Wed, 02 Sep 2009 11:48:42 +0200, Eric Sesterhenn said: > LICENSE file for nipper-cli 0.12.0 and libnipper 0.12.6 states: > > THIS IS IMPORTANT: > > libNipper and all other Nipper products are licensed under the GPL version 3 > with the following exceptions. > 1. The code cannot be used as part of a commercial product. I wonder how Rich Stallman feels about the concept of 'GPLV3 plus exceptions'. Oh, we already know. Section 10 of the GPLV3 says: "You may not impose any further restrictions on the exercise of the rights granted or affirmed under this License. " And that would certainly qualify as a "further restriction". (In particular, "as part of a commercial product" has some serious GPL issues if the person is trying to use it as part of a commercial product that is itself under GPLV3). Your second exception (regarding copyright info) can probably be rephrased so it's aggreeable with clause 7(c). You might want to run this past the good guys at the FSF and get their reaction. pgplqP1DqkcjW.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ Full-Disclosure - We believe in it. Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/
Re: [Full-disclosure] Nipper licensing
Um...so what I think I am hearing is that all versions less than 1.0, including 0.12.6 are not commercial, right? Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -Original Message- From: Fizz Date: Wed, 2 Sep 2009 12:16:31 To: Subject: Re: [Full-disclosure] Nipper licensing It has cost me a *LOT* of money to develop Nipper. Network devices are very expensive as I am sure everyone knows. It also took me a *LOT* of time to develop Nipper. It is also true that a lot of companies use Nipper to to make money, such as auditing companies and internal IT departments. During that time only 1 person has ever seen the need to donate to the project, even though it makes money for a *LOT* of businesses. Nipper has had commercial licensing exclusions for a little while now. Version 1 is now released as a full commercial version. This means that companies who benefit from using Nipper will now have to pay a licence fee. This fee will enable the purchase of more expensive network devices and further improve Nipper. NOTE: Home users will be able to continue to use Nipper for free. Nipper is a complex program that supports almost 30 devices in its present release. Nipper 1 has almost twice the number of code lines from the previous version and over triple that of the one before. It is not a simple grep of a configuration file and it audits a huge number of different settings and protocols. Ian Ventura-Whiting On Wednesday 02 September 2009 10:48:42 Eric Sesterhenn wrote: > * BMF (badmotherfs...@gmail.com) wrote: > > On Wed, Sep 2, 2009 at 1:16 AM, Alan Buxey wrote: > > > ouch. a couple of years ago we had some home-brew code doing the job. > > > Nipper > > > came along...was free..and did everything we did + a little more. > > > > > > but now it looks like we'll be picking up our old Perl code and fixing > > > it up > > > to do everything that Nipper does - and a little more. > > > > Was Nipper not available as source and licensed so it could be forked in > > an event such as this? If not, consider it an object lesson in free as in > > beer vs free as in speech. > > LICENSE file for nipper-cli 0.12.0 and libnipper 0.12.6 states: > > THIS IS IMPORTANT: > > libNipper and all other Nipper products are licensed under the GPL version > 3 with the following exceptions. > > 1. The code cannot be used as part of a commercial product. A commercial >license can be arranged for the integration of Nipper with a commercial >product. Contact f...@titania.co.uk for commercial licensing > information. > > 2. Any code that integrates Nipper MUST display the following copyright >information with the programs own copyright information: > >Nipper Copyright (C) 2006 - 2008 by Ian Ventura-Whiting > >In order to maintain the latest copyright information for each libNipper >release, this information can be extracted using the API. > > > Nipper is distributed in the hope that it will be useful, but WITHOUT ANY > WARRANTY; without even the implied warranty of MERCHANTABILITY or FITNESS > FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE. See the GNU General Public License v3 (below) for > more details. > > Regards, Eric > > ___ > Full-Disclosure - We believe in it. > Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html > Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/ ___ Full-Disclosure - We believe in it. Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/ ___ Full-Disclosure - We believe in it. Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/
Re: [Full-disclosure] Nipper licensing
It has cost me a *LOT* of money to develop Nipper. Network devices are very expensive as I am sure everyone knows. It also took me a *LOT* of time to develop Nipper. It is also true that a lot of companies use Nipper to to make money, such as auditing companies and internal IT departments. During that time only 1 person has ever seen the need to donate to the project, even though it makes money for a *LOT* of businesses. Nipper has had commercial licensing exclusions for a little while now. Version 1 is now released as a full commercial version. This means that companies who benefit from using Nipper will now have to pay a licence fee. This fee will enable the purchase of more expensive network devices and further improve Nipper. NOTE: Home users will be able to continue to use Nipper for free. Nipper is a complex program that supports almost 30 devices in its present release. Nipper 1 has almost twice the number of code lines from the previous version and over triple that of the one before. It is not a simple grep of a configuration file and it audits a huge number of different settings and protocols. Ian Ventura-Whiting On Wednesday 02 September 2009 10:48:42 Eric Sesterhenn wrote: > * BMF (badmotherfs...@gmail.com) wrote: > > On Wed, Sep 2, 2009 at 1:16 AM, Alan Buxey wrote: > > > ouch. a couple of years ago we had some home-brew code doing the job. > > > Nipper > > > came along...was free..and did everything we did + a little more. > > > > > > but now it looks like we'll be picking up our old Perl code and fixing > > > it up > > > to do everything that Nipper does - and a little more. > > > > Was Nipper not available as source and licensed so it could be forked in > > an event such as this? If not, consider it an object lesson in free as in > > beer vs free as in speech. > > LICENSE file for nipper-cli 0.12.0 and libnipper 0.12.6 states: > > THIS IS IMPORTANT: > > libNipper and all other Nipper products are licensed under the GPL version > 3 with the following exceptions. > > 1. The code cannot be used as part of a commercial product. A commercial >license can be arranged for the integration of Nipper with a commercial >product. Contact f...@titania.co.uk for commercial licensing > information. > > 2. Any code that integrates Nipper MUST display the following copyright >information with the programs own copyright information: > >Nipper Copyright (C) 2006 - 2008 by Ian Ventura-Whiting > >In order to maintain the latest copyright information for each libNipper >release, this information can be extracted using the API. > > > Nipper is distributed in the hope that it will be useful, but WITHOUT ANY > WARRANTY; without even the implied warranty of MERCHANTABILITY or FITNESS > FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE. See the GNU General Public License v3 (below) for > more details. > > Regards, Eric > > ___ > Full-Disclosure - We believe in it. > Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html > Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/ ___ Full-Disclosure - We believe in it. Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/
Re: [Full-disclosure] Nipper licensing
* BMF (badmotherfs...@gmail.com) wrote: > On Wed, Sep 2, 2009 at 1:16 AM, Alan Buxey wrote: > > > ouch. a couple of years ago we had some home-brew code doing the job. > > Nipper > > came along...was free..and did everything we did + a little more. > > > > but now it looks like we'll be picking up our old Perl code and fixing it > > up > > to do everything that Nipper does - and a little more. > > > > Was Nipper not available as source and licensed so it could be forked in an > event such as this? If not, consider it an object lesson in free as in beer > vs free as in speech. LICENSE file for nipper-cli 0.12.0 and libnipper 0.12.6 states: THIS IS IMPORTANT: libNipper and all other Nipper products are licensed under the GPL version 3 with the following exceptions. 1. The code cannot be used as part of a commercial product. A commercial license can be arranged for the integration of Nipper with a commercial product. Contact f...@titania.co.uk for commercial licensing information. 2. Any code that integrates Nipper MUST display the following copyright information with the programs own copyright information: Nipper Copyright (C) 2006 - 2008 by Ian Ventura-Whiting In order to maintain the latest copyright information for each libNipper release, this information can be extracted using the API. Nipper is distributed in the hope that it will be useful, but WITHOUT ANY WARRANTY; without even the implied warranty of MERCHANTABILITY or FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE. See the GNU General Public License v3 (below) for more details. Regards, Eric ___ Full-Disclosure - We believe in it. Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/
Re: [Full-disclosure] Nipper licensing
On Wed, Sep 2, 2009 at 1:16 AM, Alan Buxey wrote: > ouch. a couple of years ago we had some home-brew code doing the job. > Nipper > came along...was free..and did everything we did + a little more. > > but now it looks like we'll be picking up our old Perl code and fixing it > up > to do everything that Nipper does - and a little more. > Was Nipper not available as source and licensed so it could be forked in an event such as this? If not, consider it an object lesson in free as in beer vs free as in speech. BMF ___ Full-Disclosure - We believe in it. Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/
Re: [Full-disclosure] Nipper licensing
Hi, > NipperUnlimited devices 1 Year £7000 ouch. a couple of years ago we had some home-brew code doing the job. Nipper came along...was free..and did everything we did + a little more. but now it looks like we'll be picking up our old Perl code and fixing it up to do everything that Nipper does - and a little more. :-( alan ___ Full-Disclosure - We believe in it. Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/
Re: [Full-disclosure] Nipper licensing
> Which version of nipper will you be using? 0.10.x or 0.12.6? > Which one is not governed by the new Titania license? > > > > Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry > > ___ > Full-Disclosure - We believe in it. > Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html > Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/ > > Isn't nipper that little application to parse through your cisco configs and look for errors? Looks like the dev wanted to make some money: Nipper Up to 5 devices 1 Year £100 Nipper Up to 10 devices1 Year £180 Nipper Up to 50 devices1 Year £600 Nipper Up to 100 devices 1 Year £1000 Nipper Up to 500 devices 1 Year £3000 Nipper Up to 1000 devices 1 Year £5000 Nipper Unlimited devices 1 Year £7000 >From $161 bucks a year for 5 devices up to $11312 for unlimited per year...looks like the dev wanted to make a lot of money :D Good luck dev. James ___ Full-Disclosure - We believe in it. Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/
[Full-disclosure] Nipper licensing
Which version of nipper will you be using? 0.10.x or 0.12.6? Which one is not governed by the new Titania license? Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry ___ Full-Disclosure - We believe in it. Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/
