Re: [Futurework] money, currencies and Gaia
Natalia You are such a believer in the power of Gaia. Perhaps you are right, and there is nothing for us to do and mother Gaia has already decided whether we survive or not. However, I prefer to believe myself to be a functioning part of Gaia, and hence think I have an obligation to do what I can in 'the right direction'. And with respect to money I believe that this means looking much more closely at the assumptions that underpin our money practices, deciding which ones are helping and which ones are hurting and moving to assuage the hurt. Hence, my interest in community currencies which are much much more than many people realise. When done properly, they are actually a new way of dealing with wealth, value and money in the world - and a much needed way. However, they aren't even enough by themselves. What is needed is to create the infrastructure through which they can become mainstream - and that's altogether another problem. But when we get that right, we will have discovered new ways to think about how to get done what needs doing and how to ensure that those who do it can survive in the world (which is another way of saying we will have created a new world of work). thanks for keeping the dialogue open regards Charles Brass Chairman futures foundation phone:1300 727328 (International 61 3 9459 0244) fax: 61 3 9459 0344 PO Box 122 Fairfield3078 www.futuresfoundation.org.au the mission of the futures foundation is: ...to engage all Australians in creating a better future... - Original Message - From: Darryl or Natalia [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2007 7:36 AM Subject: [Futurework] money, currencies and Gaia Hi Charles, Ed, and All Members still interested in money, Just downloaded six weeks worth of mail after installing a new computer tower, hence the very late reply. Your last e-mail, Charles, which I quote only in part below, urges me to say that optimists are not necessarily required to come up with all solutions to the world's problems. It suffices that they give a damn, and speak up. They are hardly expected to resurrect that which never had a clear pulse to begin with. I very much relate to systems of local currencies for the reasons you cite, but fail to appreciate how invoking the perfect currency system will be applied to our chaotic systems of creating money/wealth. In other words, we need an honest system, reflective of real value in the creation of money -- for the perfect currency system to take roots and mean anything.. Think of the way in which governments grant leaseholds and rights to industry to exploit natural resources owned by the nation, who is taxed in order to support corporate startup and operational costs. Big money gets rights to the wealth of the world, but the people who pay the taxes to support this practice get less than nothing in return. This government assisted investment class is quite exposed, yet even proving such activity as price gauging at the gas pump fails to result in any kind of redress. The privileged have ensured that the laws protect their powers. Waiting for these leaseholds and exploration rights to expire, then not renewing them unless on sustainable and equitable terms is one optimistic view of making amends, but most resources have been signed off for 50-100 year terms, as far as I know. This leaves little room for change, as you pointed out in an overview of Gaia's predicament, that can have effect in time for any correction by legislation.. I am counting on Gaia to correct the situation shortly. The Northwest Passage is now clear enough for a sail from Tokyo to Boston. Arctic ice typically melts into mid September, such that next year's permanent ice will be much reduced. A total summer melt is forecast for 2030. With these kinds of forces at play, I doubt we need bother about ideal economic systems that accommodate flawed values, monetary and otherwise. Once natural corrections temper, having displaced most destructive industry and activity, local currency systems will likely be the only kind to have meaning or effect. Hopefully, the internet will survive to spread word of sustainable practices for all activity. Thanks for your last reply, Natalia All of the 'missing money' you refer to below arises because of the way we have commodified money and allow people to manipulate its supply for their personal gain. Hence, my interest in creating systems which, while they may not be able to entirely avoid human greed, at least ensure that the greedy are much more visible and accountable - ie community created and managed currencies. So, at its core, I hope my interest does not exclude your passionate calls for us to be more sustainable about our use of Gaia's resources. Charles Brass ___ Futurework mailing list Futurework@fes.uwaterloo.ca http
Re: [Futurework] money, currencies and Gaia
Hi Charles, To say I'm counting on Gaia is not to say I believe in Gaia to solve what we helped to bring about, nor do I endow her with our human current standard of intelligence or so-called consciousness. She has a life force which I consider to be a mother/provider to all life here, and who will respond to untoward pressures without preparation according to all natural laws. I do not regard her with moral, vengeful or any other human or deified attribute. I was merely stating that I think Gaia will help to wipe the slate sooner than any efforts we undertake in the immediate time frame for (partial) correction. This is not the same as saying we should not act according to our conscious in matters related to human activity simply because Gaia will act first. As functioning parts of Gaia's system, we owe it to her to uphold all avenues of sustainability. It's not just up to Gaia to evolve. But she has been around for 4.5 billion years, and our puny industrial/chemical/nuclear era of the last 150 years will be forced out of existence shortly because we have failed to respect sustainable natural laws. Reaction will not be punishment, but it will certainly appear that way to those who set store by vengeful deities. Yes, getting the infrastructure right is everything. Hence, my belief is that a new beginning is essential, and therefor my opinion that a better system of values is essential. I don't know what that should be, I just know it can't stem from, nor expect to be corrected within a flawed value system. BTW, another aspect we haven't touched upon is the extent to which interest earnings, as an integral part of the current system, have contributed to our instability. I doubt the income gap would be quite as pronounced, nor would Western society be as well off, (nor able to consume/destroy quite as much), without it. I've never studied it as a theory, but can easily follow the path of inequities established. This was first brought to my attention by someone who wisely took his entire share of an inheritance and put it into gold bullion when it was half of today's value, destined for extinction. Not to conclude his good fortune makes him an expert, and I can't speak to his belief in the value of bullion, but what I most glean from our talks is that linear thought holds more sway in the world than is healthy. Regards, Natalia Charles Brass wrote: Natalia You are such a believer in the power of Gaia. Perhaps you are right, and there is nothing for us to do and mother Gaia has already decided whether we survive or not. However, I prefer to believe myself to be a functioning part of Gaia, and hence think I have an obligation to do what I can in 'the right direction'. And with respect to money I believe that this means looking much more closely at the assumptions that underpin our money practices, deciding which ones are helping and which ones are hurting and moving to assuage the hurt. Hence, my interest in community currencies which are much much more than many people realise. When done properly, they are actually a new way of dealing with wealth, value and money in the world - and a much needed way. However, they aren't even enough by themselves. What is needed is to create the infrastructure through which they can become mainstream - and that's altogether another problem. But when we get that right, we will have discovered new ways to think about how to get done what needs doing and how to ensure that those who do it can survive in the world (which is another way of saying we will have created a new world of work). thanks for keeping the dialogue open regards Charles Brass Chairman futures foundation phone:1300 727328 (International 61 3 9459 0244) fax: 61 3 9459 0344 PO Box 122 Fairfield3078 www.futuresfoundation.org.au the mission of the futures foundation is: ...to engage all Australians in creating a better future... - Original Message - From: Darryl or Natalia [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2007 7:36 AM Subject: [Futurework] money, currencies and Gaia Hi Charles, Ed, and All Members still interested in money, Just downloaded six weeks worth of mail after installing a new computer tower, hence the very late reply. Your last e-mail, Charles, which I quote only in part below, urges me to say that optimists are not necessarily required to come up with all solutions to the world's problems. It suffices that they give a damn, and speak up. They are hardly expected to resurrect that which never had a clear pulse to begin with. I very much relate to systems of local currencies for the reasons you cite, but fail to appreciate how invoking the perfect currency system will be applied to our chaotic systems of creating money/wealth. In other words, we need an honest system, reflective of real value in the creation of money -- for the perfect
Re: [Futurework] money, currencies and Gaia
I have snipped a bit from Natalia's most recent post on this issue: BTW, another aspect we haven't touched upon is the extent to which interest earnings, as an integral part of the current system, have contributed to our instability. I doubt the income gap would be quite as pronounced, nor would Western society be as well off, (nor able to consume/destroy quite as much), without it. I've never studied it as a theory, but can easily follow the path of inequities established Interest and its role in our current financial understanding is very interesting. At one level, interest is the cost of using money. And like any other commodity (through I acknowledge those who abhorr the notion of money as a commodity) there is a cost to use it. So long as that cost reflects the actual cost to the person who provides the money (just as rent provides a return to the owner of a property - or a shopkeeper charges more than it cost him to buy some milk)there is no problem with interest. However, when interest reflects a monopoly rent, or is a return on money created out of nothing (which is the way banks currently create it) then it is a pox on the system - if for no other reason than it means we need to perpetually grow in order to pay off our debts. Interest is by no means an inevitable part of the system, however, the Islamic faith (and for a time many Christian faiths) actually ban it and still operate successful financial systems. regards Charles Brass ___ Futurework mailing list Futurework@fes.uwaterloo.ca http://fes.uwaterloo.ca/mailman/listinfo/futurework
[Futurework] money, currencies and Gaia
Hi Charles, Ed, and All Members still interested in money, Just downloaded six weeks worth of mail after installing a new computer tower, hence the very late reply. Your last e-mail, Charles, which I quote only in part below, urges me to say that optimists are not necessarily required to come up with all solutions to the world's problems. It suffices that they give a damn, and speak up. They are hardly expected to resurrect that which never had a clear pulse to begin with. I very much relate to systems of local currencies for the reasons you cite, but fail to appreciate how invoking the perfect currency system will be applied to our chaotic systems of creating money/wealth. In other words, we need an honest system, reflective of real value in the creation of money -- for the perfect currency system to take roots and mean anything.. Think of the way in which governments grant leaseholds and rights to industry to exploit natural resources owned by the nation, who is taxed in order to support corporate startup and operational costs. Big money gets rights to the wealth of the world, but the people who pay the taxes to support this practice get less than nothing in return. This government assisted investment class is quite exposed, yet even proving such activity as price gauging at the gas pump fails to result in any kind of redress. The privileged have ensured that the laws protect their powers. Waiting for these leaseholds and exploration rights to expire, then not renewing them unless on sustainable and equitable terms is one optimistic view of making amends, but most resources have been signed off for 50-100 year terms, as far as I know. This leaves little room for change, as you pointed out in an overview of Gaia's predicament, that can have effect in time for any correction by legislation.. I am counting on Gaia to correct the situation shortly. The Northwest Passage is now clear enough for a sail from Tokyo to Boston. Arctic ice typically melts into mid September, such that next year's permanent ice will be much reduced. A total summer melt is forecast for 2030. With these kinds of forces at play, I doubt we need bother about ideal economic systems that accommodate flawed values, monetary and otherwise. Once natural corrections temper, having displaced most destructive industry and activity, local currency systems will likely be the only kind to have meaning or effect. Hopefully, the internet will survive to spread word of sustainable practices for all activity. Thanks for your last reply, Natalia All of the 'missing money' you refer to below arises because of the way we have commodified money and allow people to manipulate its supply for their personal gain. Hence, my interest in creating systems which, while they may not be able to entirely avoid human greed, at least ensure that the greedy are much more visible and accountable - ie community created and managed currencies. So, at its core, I hope my interest does not exclude your passionate calls for us to be more sustainable about our use of Gaia's resources. Charles Brass ___ Futurework mailing list Futurework@fes.uwaterloo.ca http://fes.uwaterloo.ca/mailman/listinfo/futurework
