Re: FVWM: fvwm3? [on Wayland]
At Sun, 4 Feb 2024 09:51:45 +1000 Stuart Longland wrote: > > On 4/2/24 08:05, Thomas Adam wrote: > I think this is where we need to consider what the FVWM/Wayland re-write > would look like. What can be practically brought across under the > constraints of the `wlroots` back-end (or Wayland itself), and what do > we have to leave behind? Of the things we can bring across, what items > are of most important to people? > > - Are people using FVWM for its looks? (Themability) Looks/functionallity: I want the MWM look/functionallity. > - Are people using FVWM for its binding/scripting support? > - Are people using FVWM for just being light-weight? YES! I want as lightweight a window manager as posible. I don't want to have to a super powerful computer, just because of my GUI. Some of the GUI tools I use are more then "bloated" enough without having to add a "bloated" memory hog just to manage a few windows. > > I think this is what we need to be asking, what is important to us, the > FVWM community that we want to preserve? Then we can figure out how > best to bring across enough of the FVWM "essence" to build a new home in > the land of Wayland. -- Robert Heller -- Cell: 413-658-7953 GV: 978-633-5364 Deepwoods Software-- Custom Software Services http://www.deepsoft.com/ -- Linux Administration Services hel...@deepsoft.com -- Webhosting Services
Re: FVWM: fvwm3?
At Fri, 02 Feb 2024 18:11:01 -0600 Jason Tibbitts wrote: > > >>>>> Robert Heller writes: > > > I believe Wayland does not support that sort of thing. > > It does, actually, but not exactly the same way. Look up "waypipe". > One does get the impression that it's all an afterthought, though. Right. Wayland does not want to be a networked display environment and would like to be like the MS-Windows and MacOS display environments: purely a local machine only display environment. Afterall, no one needs more then one computer... > > - J< > > > -- Robert Heller -- Cell: 413-658-7953 GV: 978-633-5364 Deepwoods Software-- Custom Software Services http://www.deepsoft.com/ -- Linux Administration Services hel...@deepsoft.com -- Webhosting Services
Re: FVWM: fvwm3?
At Fri, 02 Feb 2024 10:55:46 -0500 Paul Fox wrote: > > I realize this discussion is drifting away from fvwm, but... > > ...a major part of my daily activity has always depended on X11's > ability to function on remote displays. Does that functionality > (i.e. "DISPLAY=remotehost:0" vs. "DISPLAY=:0") exist if either or > both of the hosts is based on Wayland? I believe Wayland does not support that sort of thing. > > paul > > ml-f...@srv.mx wrote: > > Also a bunch of new DE/WM and soon XFCE. There will still be diversity, > > but a new one. > > However I'm not sure Xorg will be out soon there are still missing > > features on Wayland, like screen recording (available only on Gnome), > > which means that softwares like OBS don't work on it. > > > > Le 02/02/2024 à04:28, hw a écrit : > > > On Tue, 2024-01-30 at 14:02 -0700, Jaimos Skriletz wrote: > > >> On Tue, Jan 30, 2024 at 1:25 PM hw wrote: > > >>> > > >>> so is there finally a version that works for wayland? > > >>> > > >> No, fvwm only works with xorg and most likely won't be ported. > > >> > > >>> What are the differences between fvwm2 and fvwm3? > > >>> > > >> See https://github.com/fvwmorg/fvwm3/discussions/878 > > > > > > Good pointer, thanks! > > > > > > It's a pity that there's no fvwm for wayland. Xorg doesn't seem to be > > > maintainted anymore and is on the way out. That only leaves us Gnome > > > and KDE. All the diversity we used to have is gone with that. > > > > > > > > > > > =-- > paul fox, p...@foxharp.boston.ma.us (arlington, ma, where it's 38.9 degrees) > > > > > -- Robert Heller -- Cell: 413-658-7953 GV: 978-633-5364 Deepwoods Software-- Custom Software Services http://www.deepsoft.com/ -- Linux Administration Services hel...@deepsoft.com -- Webhosting Services
Re: FVWM: fvwm3?
At Fri, 02 Feb 2024 04:28:44 +0100 hw wrote: > > On Tue, 2024-01-30 at 14:02 -0700, Jaimos Skriletz wrote: > > On Tue, Jan 30, 2024 at 1:25â¯PM hw wrote: > > > > > > so is there finally a version that works for wayland? > > > > > No, fvwm only works with xorg and most likely won't be ported. > > > > > What are the differences between fvwm2 and fvwm3? > > > > > See https://github.com/fvwmorg/fvwm3/discussions/878 > > Good pointer, thanks! > > It's a pity that there's no fvwm for wayland. Xorg doesn't seem to be > maintainted anymore and is on the way out. That only leaves us Gnome > and KDE. All the diversity we used to have is gone with that. > Does wayland have an X11 compatibility feature? > > > -- Robert Heller -- Cell: 413-658-7953 GV: 978-633-5364 Deepwoods Software-- Custom Software Services http://www.deepsoft.com/ -- Linux Administration Services hel...@deepsoft.com -- Webhosting Services
Re: FVWM: Java applications don't get keyboard focus
At Mon, 31 Jul 2017 17:23:59 -0400 Dan Espen wrote: > > Robert Heller writes: > > > At Robert Heller wrote: > > > >> > >> I am trying to use the Arduino IDE and it is not letting me give it > >> keyboard > >> focus. I too am using FVWM. Even when I launch it in its own desktop, it > >> does > >> not work. I cannot seem to make the Arduino IDE take keyboard focus, I can > >> click endlessly on the window and nothing happens. I can use the menus and > >> click anywhere in the sketch window and move the input position (with the > >> mouse, never with the keyboard). I don't want to hack the Arduino IDE code > >> itself, unless that is the only solution. Is there something in .fvwm2rc I > >> can > >> set to fix this? The Arduino IDE *used* to work just fine. I *guessing* it > >> is > >> something about the newer versions of CentOS (presently CentOS 6, kernel > >> version 2.6.32-696.6.3.el6.x86_64) or FVWM (2.6.6-1.el6) I am using now > >> (the > >> last time I was sure it was working was with CentOS 5 and fvwm > >> 2.5.26-2.el5.2). Even when I force the Arduino IDE to use Java 1.6, it > >> still > >> does not work. I have version 1.0.5 of the Arduino IDE. > > > > OK, it appears that Java apps (or at least the Arduino IDE) does not really > > like: > > > > Style "*" !FPFocusByProgram > > > > I added: > > > > Style "*Arduino* FPFocusByProgram > > > > and the Arduino IDE is now working properly. > > > > Why is that? > > I haven't looked at any code but the documentation > says: > > The FPFocusByProgram style allows windows to take the focus themselves. > > So, my guess is that Arduino is using XSetInputFocus() > and does not like getting focus any other way. > Programs should allow the window manager to control focus. It is not "Arduino" as much as OpenJDK is doing that. > -- Robert Heller -- 978-544-6933 Deepwoods Software-- Custom Software Services http://www.deepsoft.com/ -- Linux Administration Services hel...@deepsoft.com -- Webhosting Services
Re: FVWM: Java applications don't get keyboard focus
At Robert Heller wrote: > > I am trying to use the Arduino IDE and it is not letting me give it keyboard > focus. I too am using FVWM. Even when I launch it in its own desktop, it does > not work. I cannot seem to make the Arduino IDE take keyboard focus, I can > click endlessly on the window and nothing happens. I can use the menus and > click anywhere in the sketch window and move the input position (with the > mouse, never with the keyboard). I don't want to hack the Arduino IDE code > itself, unless that is the only solution. Is there something in .fvwm2rc I can > set to fix this? The Arduino IDE *used* to work just fine. I *guessing* it is > something about the newer versions of CentOS (presently CentOS 6, kernel > version 2.6.32-696.6.3.el6.x86_64) or FVWM (2.6.6-1.el6) I am using now (the > last time I was sure it was working was with CentOS 5 and fvwm > 2.5.26-2.el5.2). Even when I force the Arduino IDE to use Java 1.6, it still > does not work. I have version 1.0.5 of the Arduino IDE. OK, it appears that Java apps (or at least the Arduino IDE) does not really like: Style "*" !FPFocusByProgram I added: Style "*Arduino* FPFocusByProgram and the Arduino IDE is now working properly. Why is that? > > My .fvwm2rc has: > > Style "*" ClickToFocus > > > At Mon, 31 Jul 2017 11:57:18 + "Shriver, Daniel" > wrote: > > > > > I typically had the opposite problem: java applications taking keyboard foc= > > us when I wanted them to have none. > > > > I suggest you play around with the top level graphical object you use, and = > > setFocusableWindowState(). > > > > See this StackOverflow thread: > > > > https://stackoverflow.com/questions/2820014/how-do-i-stop-workaround-java-a= > > pps-stealing-focus-in-linux-window-managers/2820707#2820707 > > > > -Original Message- > > From: gi1242+f...@gmail.com [mailto:gi1242+f...@gmail.com]=20 > > Sent: Thursday, July 27, 2017 10:13 PM > > To: fvwm@fvwm.org > > Subject: Re: FVWM: Java applications don't get keyboard focus > > > > On Fri, Jul 28, 2017 at 02:11:53AM +0300, Oleksandr Gavenko wrote: > > > > > I've lived with this problem since 2008. Or even earlier. > > > > Ha ha. Me too! I even posted about this back in 2007 or so, but could never= > > fix it. > > > > My work around was to launch Java applications (mainly Matlab) in their own= > > desktop. But even then it sometimes requires I manually click the mouse... > > > > GI > > > > -- > > Once you've seen one shopping center, you've seen a mall. > > > > > > > > > > > -- Robert Heller -- 978-544-6933 Deepwoods Software-- Custom Software Services http://www.deepsoft.com/ -- Linux Administration Services hel...@deepsoft.com -- Webhosting Services
Re: FVWM: Java applications don't get keyboard focus
I am trying to use the Arduino IDE and it is not letting me give it keyboard focus. I too am using FVWM. Even when I launch it in its own desktop, it does not work. I cannot seem to make the Arduino IDE take keyboard focus, I can click endlessly on the window and nothing happens. I can use the menus and click anywhere in the sketch window and move the input position (with the mouse, never with the keyboard). I don't want to hack the Arduino IDE code itself, unless that is the only solution. Is there something in .fvwm2rc I can set to fix this? The Arduino IDE *used* to work just fine. I *guessing* it is something about the newer versions of CentOS (presently CentOS 6, kernel version 2.6.32-696.6.3.el6.x86_64) or FVWM (2.6.6-1.el6) I am using now (the last time I was sure it was working was with CentOS 5 and fvwm 2.5.26-2.el5.2). Even when I force the Arduino IDE to use Java 1.6, it still does not work. I have version 1.0.5 of the Arduino IDE. My .fvwm2rc has: Style "*" ClickToFocus At Mon, 31 Jul 2017 11:57:18 + "Shriver, Daniel" wrote: > > I typically had the opposite problem: java applications taking keyboard foc= > us when I wanted them to have none. > > I suggest you play around with the top level graphical object you use, and = > setFocusableWindowState(). > > See this StackOverflow thread: > > https://stackoverflow.com/questions/2820014/how-do-i-stop-workaround-java-a= > pps-stealing-focus-in-linux-window-managers/2820707#2820707 > > -Original Message- > From: gi1242+f...@gmail.com [mailto:gi1242+f...@gmail.com]=20 > Sent: Thursday, July 27, 2017 10:13 PM > To: fvwm@fvwm.org > Subject: Re: FVWM: Java applications don't get keyboard focus > > On Fri, Jul 28, 2017 at 02:11:53AM +0300, Oleksandr Gavenko wrote: > > > I've lived with this problem since 2008. Or even earlier. > > Ha ha. Me too! I even posted about this back in 2007 or so, but could never= > fix it. > > My work around was to launch Java applications (mainly Matlab) in their own= > desktop. But even then it sometimes requires I manually click the mouse... > > GI > > -- > Once you've seen one shopping center, you've seen a mall. > > > > > -- Robert Heller -- 978-544-6933 Deepwoods Software-- Custom Software Services http://www.deepsoft.com/ -- Linux Administration Services hel...@deepsoft.com -- Webhosting Services
Re: FVWM: partial update Re: interference firefox/acroread and fvwm on suse 11.3
At Fri, 17 Dec 2010 17:16:49 + Thomas Adam wrote: > > On 17 December 2010 17:00, Lucio Chiappetti wrote: > > Or will Thomas Adam have a simpler workaround at .fvwmrc level if this > > diagnosis makes sense to him ? > > Thomas Adam says it's still not an FVWM problem. :) > > If it is GTK related, that's down to GTK, although running the whole > of gnome-settings-daemon is not necessary when you can use things like > gtk-chtheme to set your .gtkrc stuff up. Although anything more > complicated will require you to edit it by hand anyway. *I* don't seem to have gtk-chtheme installed on my system (CentOS 5.5, control-center-2.16.0-16.el5, gnome--2.16.0-). I did run some gnome theme thingy to get the theme stuff setup, but FireFox seems to want to get the info from gnome-settings-daemon and not by reading the various dot-files. The 'theme' settings did not take until I fired up gnome-settings-daemon. *I* would agree it is not a 'FVWM problem' -- it is a *stupidity* with *some* GTK applications, ones that *assume* that they are running in a [GNome] 'desktop manager' environment (with all that is implied with such an environment) and don't really allow for people who might want to use these applications under a *different* sort of environment (such as one without *any* 'desktop manager' running). These applications either fallback to something stupid/ugly or leave some appearence features unset or something -- they just don't have a 'sensible' *alternitive* way to get the appearence settings. > > -- Thomas Adam > > > -- Robert Heller -- 978-544-6933 / hel...@deepsoft.com Deepwoods Software-- http://www.deepsoft.com/ () ascii ribbon campaign -- against html e-mail /\ www.asciiribbon.org -- against proprietary attachments
Re: FVWM: partial update Re: interference firefox/acroread and fvwm on suse 11.3
At Fri, 17 Dec 2010 18:00:57 +0100 (CET) Lucio Chiappetti wrote: > > On Fri, 17 Dec 2010, Robert Heller wrote: > > >>> The topmost menu bar (File Edit ...) has white text onto black > >>> background, The remaining menu bars and widget are normal > > >> For firefox there is a partial workaround. ["persona" "simple fox"] > > > To make FireFox (and other GNome-flavored applications) 'play nice' > > with FVWM, I fire up a minimal bit of GNome: > > /usr/libexec/gnome-settings-daemon. By firing this up with a properly > > setup ~/.gconf directory/files, I can get FireFox to be set up > > with the proper Gnome 'theme' (I created a minimual theme that suited). > > So you are confirming there are applications which are ill-behaved with > fvwm ? I hope this info makes sense with Thomas Adam. Not so much 'ill-behaved', just that things like various sorts of appearence settings are just not possible without gnome-settings-daemon running. Without gnome-settings-daemon I get some 'funky' defaults that cannot be changed (and look weird compared to the rest of the applications I run). It is that these 'new-fangled' applications no longer even look at the X11 resource DB (dislike!) and are using some other mechanism, one that *requires* certain parts of the desktop manager running. > > I am REALLY reluctant to have to learn gnome just to bypass its features > (if I understand correctly). Actually I'm not even sure it is installed > (our institute-wide base pre-installation prepared by our sys man replied > "KDE" when offered the choice "KDE vs gnome") ... and under KDE those > applications are well-behaved. > > Would you mind to share this "minimal theme" ? I'm not sure how to do that. I had to fumble with gnome's theme manager program and don't know where the 'theme' per se lives. > > Or will Thomas Adam have a simpler workaround at .fvwmrc level if this > diagnosis makes sense to him ? If FVWM could 'fake' what it is that gnome-settings-daemon does, which I think it is creating a UNIX socket in /tmp/orbit-$USER/ and then making some config mumbo jumbo available, that would be great. I don't know if it is documented or if there is a GTK-ish library that deals with this. It might not be a GNome-specific thing, just some sort of 'desktop manager' business using ORBit2. And probably KDE has its own version of gnome-settings-daemon that does what is needful for FireFox, etc. behave with proper theme-ish settings. Maybe what is needed is some FVWM *module* that hooks into ORBit2 and also provides some proper theme-ish appearence settings for those applications that need this sort of thing (and which won't fallback and use the X11 Resource DB). > -- Robert Heller -- 978-544-6933 / hel...@deepsoft.com Deepwoods Software-- http://www.deepsoft.com/ () ascii ribbon campaign -- against html e-mail /\ www.asciiribbon.org -- against proprietary attachments
Re: FVWM: partial update Re: interference firefox/acroread and fvwm on suse 11.3
At Fri, 17 Dec 2010 16:12:52 +0100 (CET) Lucio Chiappetti wrote: > > On Fri, 17 Dec 2010, Lucio Chiappetti wrote: > > > I am noting a funny (and sort of annoying behaviour) when using firefox > > and acrobat reader in a fvmw session under suse 11.3 (newly installed). > > Apparently also openoffice is showing the same behaviour. > > > The topmost menu bar (File Edit ...) has white text onto black > > background, The remaining menu bars and widget are normal (black on > > light grey). > > For firefox there is a partial workaround. I always hated "themes" but I > found a sort of lightweight themes called "personas". If one goes to the > site where one can load them, one can also test them. They appear to > replace the menu bar and other bars with some pictured background. My > workaround was to choose a "persona" called "simple fox" (useless to say, > no picture, just solid gray :-)). > > This makes me think that all those applications are NOT using a specific > fg/bg colour for the top menu bar, but leaving it somehow transparent > letting some w.m. default shining through. I suppose in KDE what shines > through is determined by the default KDE theme ... how could I set a > similar "super-default" in fvwm ? a plain *background: and *foreground: > in .Xdefaults is no good. To make FireFox (and other GNome-flavored applications) 'play nice' with FVWM, I fire up a minimal bit of GNome: /usr/libexec/gnome-settings-daemon. By firing this up with a properly setup ~/.gconf directory/files, I can get FireFox to be set up with the proper Gnome 'theme' (I created a minimual theme that suited). (I actually use a 'session manager' I wrote in Tcl/Tk -- the session manager fires up fvwm and the gnome-settings-daemon.) > > -- Robert Heller -- 978-544-6933 / hel...@deepsoft.com Deepwoods Software-- http://www.deepsoft.com/ () ascii ribbon campaign -- against html e-mail /\ www.asciiribbon.org -- against proprietary attachments
Re: FVWM: Some items on a wish list
At Wed, 6 Aug 2008 17:32:34 -0500 (CDT) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
>
> Thanks, something else to look into.
>
> Now, however, a problem, just discovered:
>
> The laptop is running, over on the other side of the room, because I have
> been involved in doing some security upgrades on it, while dealing with
> e-mail over here. So I just went over there and ran "sensors" and it says
> there are none. There is something called "smbus" connected to the PIIX4
> chipset, but it is not at all obvious what it does.
>
> The BIOS has a screen for display of battery status, so presumably this
> information needs to be read by some app, and it seems that "sensors" is
> not doing it.
Battery status is handled by either APM or APCI, depending on laptop
vintage and/or BIOS settings. Older laptops used APM and newer ones use
APCI. Modern kernels detect which. If APM, you need apmd and (x)apm to
check battery status, if APCI, the kernel creates some directories under
/proc/acpi that contain text 'files' that contain the state of the power
plug (/proc/acpi/ac_adapter/AC/state) and the batteries
/proc/acpi/battery/*/{info,state}.
The sensors are handled by lm_sensor -- these include stuff like power
supply voltages, CPU temp, and CPU fan speed. "smbus" also includes
reading some proms and stuff -- can be used to identify things like
DIMMS and such like. You can try running sensors-detect (as root) and
see if it finds the sensors. You might need to load some kernel modules
to get this going.
>
> I have tried running KDE on the laptop, and it does then display a battery
> icon. But at this point it is not obvious to me how KDE is getting the
> information out of the BIOS.
See above.
>
> Any ideas what might be going on down at this, more basic level?
>
> Apparently, this seems to be turning into a major engineering project. :/
Someone already has solved it...
>
> Theodore Kilgore
>
>
>
> On Thu, 7 Aug 2008, Jesús Guerrero wrote:
>
> > If what you need are light apps to swallow them into FvwmButtons what I used
> > to use were window maker doackapps, there are quite a lot of them, and they
> > are really nice and simple to use and configure. I guess you already know
> > about them, but just in case :)
> >
> > --
> > Jesús Guerrero <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >
>
>
--
Robert Heller -- Get the Deepwoods Software FireFox Toolbar!
Deepwoods Software-- Linux Installation and Administration
http://www.deepsoft.com/ -- Web Hosting, with CGI and Database
[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Contract Programming: C/C++, Tcl/Tk
Re: FVWM: Some items on a wish list
At Wed, 6 Aug 2008 20:59:00 +0200 [** ISO-8859-1 charset **] JesúsGuerrero <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Hi, > > About png's Thomas already answered. I'll just add that is also supports > svg on latest revisions. Check the man page for more info. > > On Wed, 6 Aug 2008 13:29:57 -0500 (CDT) > [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > > 2. For a laptop, there are such things as battery and temperature sensors. > > Fancy environments such as KDE have support for things like indicators for > > the battery. I wonder how hard it would be to provide this for fvwm? > > Actually, I conjecture that this would not require a deep dive into the > > code at all, but rather the hooking up of some already-existing program > > into a display "icon" something like the load indicator, which already has > > been done a long time ago. But I wonder if anyone has done this, or > > thought of it? > > I'll say a couple more of words about this. Fvwm is a window manager, and this > is no the kind of functionality that a wm should have. IF you want everything > working -almost- out of the box, use a Desktop instead. Right. The whole point of Fvwm is to be a fairly lightweight window manager. There is no need to add extrainious functionallity to it. One of the reasons *I* use Fvwm is that is is NOT like Gnome or KDE -- both of which are overloaded with extrainous functionallity. I wrote a Tcl/Tk wrapper for the ACPI battery info for my laptop -- would you like the code? I could upload it somewhere, if anyone is interested. There already exists a an APM flavor of battery monitor (xapm) out there somewhere. > > FvwmButtons is an interesting module that can swallow any application. > Temperature metters, system tray applets, mail notification applets, clocks, > etc. can be embedded simply into FvwmButtons, so, it looks a bit odd to me to > hard code such features into fvwm itself. If you want it, add it into your > config, that's how fvwm is and I doubt it will change. > > You can also use gkrellm and conky if you preffer monoliths instead of having > a lot of small applets/metters running. > > -- Robert Heller -- Get the Deepwoods Software FireFox Toolbar! Deepwoods Software-- Linux Installation and Administration http://www.deepsoft.com/ -- Web Hosting, with CGI and Database [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Contract Programming: C/C++, Tcl/Tk
Re: FVWM: window placement problem
At Thu, 12 Jun 2008 23:40:17 +0100 Thomas Adam <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > On Thu, 12 Jun 2008 15:33:13 -0700 > E Frank Ball III <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > My system at home uses 2.5.18 on Debian etch and it doesn't do this. > > I can't find any relevant differences in the fvwm config file. > > I have: > > And you can't use FVWM 2.5.X in place of your FVWM 2.4.X install > because... Just to let the OP know: I was able to rebuild the fvwm-2.5.18.tar.gz into a RPM (rpmbuild -ta fvwm-2.5.18.tar.gz) under CentOS 4. (GPL version of RHEL 4). So fvwm-2.5.18-1 is/can be available for RHEL 4 -- it is just not going to be in any of the RHEL 4 repositories. > > -- Thomas Adam > -- Robert Heller -- Get the Deepwoods Software FireFox Toolbar! Deepwoods Software-- Linux Installation and Administration http://www.deepsoft.com/ -- Web Hosting, with CGI and Database [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Contract Programming: C/C++, Tcl/Tk
