FVWM: FvwmWiki

[Jaimos Skriletz]

Hello,

I have put together the various howtos, configuration examples, and so
forht I have compiled over the years and updated how the wiki is built
and lots of its content. You can find the wiki at

http://fvwmforums.org/wiki/

Hope it finds some use.

jaimos

Re: FVWM: FvwmWiki -- up and running.

[Thomas Adam]

On Fri, Feb 19, 2010 at 12:19:13PM +1100, Kathryn Andersen wrote:
> The fact that you were quicker off the mark than I was means that there
> were improvements quicker, which is good all around, IMHO.

There's still other things to do:

http://fvwmwiki.xteddy.org/todo/

-- Thomas Adam

-- 
"It was the cruelest game I've ever played and it's played inside my head."
-- "Hush The Warmth", Gorky's Zygotic Mynci.

Re: FVWM: FvwmWiki -- up and running.

[Kathryn Andersen]

On Thu, Feb 18, 2010 at 08:06:10PM +0100, Anton Popov wrote:
> On [14.02.10 21:49], Thomas Adam wrote:
> > 
> > http://fvwmwiki.xteddy.org/fvwmwiki
> As for the style:
> It's supposed to be clean and easy readable, so for now I didn't care
> that much about beautiness. Another aspect for me to keep it simple
> was to minimize the time to fully load a page (no background-images
> except one so far).

The FVWM logo - good idea!

> I also tried to imitate the manpage[1] style a little, as I personally
> like it and thought it might be appropriate. Anyway, there is a lot of
> space for other ideas, I think, so feel free to replace this and that,
> if you like to. The stylesheet is still in development.

The fact that you were quicker off the mark than I was means that there
were improvements quicker, which is good all around, IMHO.

Kathryn Andersen
-- 
 _--_|\ | Kathryn Andersen  
/  \| 
\_.--.*/| 
  v | 
| Melbourne -> Victoria -> Australia -> Southern Hemisphere
Maranatha!  |   -> Earth -> Sol -> Milky Way Galaxy -> Universe

Re: FVWM: FvwmWiki -- up and running.

[Anton Popov]

On [18.02.10 20:06], Anton Popov wrote:
> As for the style:
> It's supposed to be clean and easy readable, so for now I didn't care
> that much about beautiness. Another aspect for me to keep it simple
> was to minimize the time to fully load a page (no background-images
> except one so far).
> I also tried to imitate the manpage[1] style a little, as I personally
> like it and thought it might be appropriate. Anyway, there is a lot of
> space for other ideas, I think, so feel free to replace this and that,
> if you like to. The stylesheet is still in development.

Oops, forgot the link :)

[1] http://fvwm.org/doc/unstable/fvwm/fvwm.man.html

Regards
Anton Popov

Re: FVWM: FvwmWiki -- Stylesheet

[Anton Popov]

On [17.02.10 08:54], Kathryn Andersen wrote:
[snip]
> > * Styling of the wiki.
> What do you have in mind?  Just the CSS, or changing the page.tmpl
> template also?
[snap]
> > If anyone is seriously going to do this, would they let me know so we can
> > discuss it?  Otherwise there's a serious chance for overlap from myself and
> > other contributors.
> I'd be interested in helping with the styling, if that's okay.
> 

I've just committed an own stylesheet but if you have another vision
of how the wiki should look like I am open to suggestions. If you 
already started styling I am willing to see it and to help you with it, 
if you don't mind. Don't bother to replace mine if you feel like.
I can also limit myself to bug-finding and bug-fixing.
Sorry for any inconvenience if I should have caused one

Regards
Anton Popov

Re: FVWM: FvwmWiki -- up and running.

[Anton Popov]

On [14.02.10 21:49], Thomas Adam wrote:
> Hello all,
> 
> Finally, my fvwm-TODO list is receiving attention.  I've finally got the
> FvwmWiki up and running again, albeit in a limited fashion for now until I
> convert all the pages over.  You can find the wiki here:
> 
> http://fvwmwiki.xteddy.org/fvwmwiki
> 
[snip]
> 
> This is a great way to contribute to FVWM, especially if you're not a
> programmer, and want to turn your hand to improving documentation, etc.
> Where I was largely motivated before from the old wiki to structure it well,
> my time is less and less likely to be spent on this one (as I am
> concentrating more and more on trying to make FVWM 2.5.X stable!)  So here's
> some random tasks for would-be contributors to consider:
> 
> * Styling of the wiki.
[snap]
> 
> If anyone is seriously going to do this, would they let me know so we can
> discuss it?  Otherwise there's a serious chance for overlap from myself and
> other contributors.

Hi

I took the liberty in making a stylesheet for the wiki a few days ago
and already committed it (we were talking in #fvwm) - Maybe I should
have replied to this list before, so I'm sorry for that.

As for the style:
It's supposed to be clean and easy readable, so for now I didn't care
that much about beautiness. Another aspect for me to keep it simple
was to minimize the time to fully load a page (no background-images
except one so far).
I also tried to imitate the manpage[1] style a little, as I personally
like it and thought it might be appropriate. Anyway, there is a lot of
space for other ideas, I think, so feel free to replace this and that,
if you like to. The stylesheet is still in development.

So far 
Regards
Anton Popov

Re: FVWM: FvwmWiki -- up and running.

[Thomas Adam]

On Wed, Feb 17, 2010 at 08:54:07AM +1100, Kathryn Andersen wrote:
> Have you considered mirroring the git repository on github?
> (http://github.com)  That could ease the load on xteddy.org
> for git checkouts.

It's not the git aspect that's the problem (I already host a number of FVWM
things on github), it's whether or not the bandwidth to xteddy.org is
monumental.

> What do you have in mind?  Just the CSS, or changing the page.tmpl
> template also?

I don't care -- either or just one of them.  I care much more about the
*content*, as that's the one thing I've always been able to provide.  As for
aesthetics, I couldn't care less.

> I'd be interested in helping with the styling, if that's okay.

It's a wiki -- edit it.  :P

-- Thomas Adam

-- 
"It was the cruelest game I've ever played and it's played inside my head."
-- "Hush The Warmth", Gorky's Zygotic Mynci.

Re: FVWM: FvwmWiki -- up and running.

[Kathryn Andersen]

On Sun, Feb 14, 2010 at 09:49:58PM +, Thomas Adam wrote:
> http://fvwmwiki.xteddy.org/fvwmwiki

Yay!
 
> It's no longer using MoinMoin anymore, since this just didn't scale at all
> between versioned upgrades whatosever.  Instead, I've gone with using
> ikiwiki [1], which will hopefully ease maintenance a little.

Oh yes, ikiwiki is great!  I use it myself (and have written plugins for it).
 
> Of course, because this wiki is backed by a VCS, you can also checkout and
> push anonymously using Git, which means the ability to edit/create markdown
> pages using your favourite $EDITOR as well.  Hence:
> 
> cd && git clone git://fvwmwiki.xteddy.org/srv/git/fvwmwiki.git
 
> Ought to get you started.  This also allows for anonymous push access as
> well.  I've enabled this for a few reasons:
> 
> * I know from personal experience how annoying it is to edit wiki pages
>   directly in a browser.
> * Serious contributors are likely going to want to take the time to make
>   their pages as good as possible, which isn't likely by editing text
>   directly in a browser.
> 
> However, I would ask to be careful here -- my domain, xteddy.org, of which
> fvwmwiki.xteddy.org is obviously hosted from, is only a tiny VM instance
> from bytemark -- it only has 150MB RAM.  It's fine for persistant IRC
> sessions, and a webserver, but if I suddenly find that there's been several
> anonymous checkouts spamming the wiki to death, I will withdraw anonymous
> SSH access, and editing of the wiki will only be avaiable via the browser
> instead.

Have you considered mirroring the git repository on github?
(http://github.com)  That could ease the load on xteddy.org
for git checkouts.
 
> This is a great way to contribute to FVWM, especially if you're not a
> programmer, and want to turn your hand to improving documentation, etc.
> Where I was largely motivated before from the old wiki to structure it well,
> my time is less and less likely to be spent on this one (as I am
> concentrating more and more on trying to make FVWM 2.5.X stable!)  So here's
> some random tasks for would-be contributors to consider:
> 
> * Styling of the wiki.
What do you have in mind?  Just the CSS, or changing the page.tmpl
template also?

> * Coming up with a defined structure for it.

The initial structure, judging by the front page, is this:
* newtofvwm
* modules
* configs
* decors
* cookbook
* testimonials

That looks reasonable to start with.

> * Implementing page templates for known areas where bulk-contributions are
>   likely (c.f. writing pages to describe FVWM-modules, Style commands,
>   user-configs, etc).
(nods) Good idea.  Not sure what the content of those should be exactly,
but good idea.

> * Amalgamating other sources of FVWM info to one reference point on the
>   wiki.
(nods)
 
> If anyone is seriously going to do this, would they let me know so we can
> discuss it?  Otherwise there's a serious chance for overlap from myself and
> other contributors.
I'd be interested in helping with the styling, if that's okay.

Kathryn Andersen
-- 
 _--_|\ | Kathryn Andersen  
/  \| 
\_.--.*/| 
  v | 
| Melbourne -> Victoria -> Australia -> Southern Hemisphere
Maranatha!  |   -> Earth -> Sol -> Milky Way Galaxy -> Universe

Re: FVWM: FvwmWiki -- up and running.

[Thomas Adam]

On Sun, Feb 14, 2010 at 09:49:58PM +, Thomas Adam wrote:
> I've spent most of today writing a terrible perl script hack to convert the
> old MoinMoin files over.  Thankfully, since I've contributed lots to the old
> FvwmWiki, I was able to recall most of the pages in amongst all the bloody
> spam which was present.   :)  Alas, I have only had time to convert over the
> FvwmModule pages -- I'll get round to the others in due course, I promise.

... Which I hope I've now completed --- this is the bulk of what was
originally there.  I've gone through pretty much everything, and 99% of it
was spam.  It's good enough for now, and if at some point in the future
someone asks where their page went, I always have the original to fall back
on.

So, consider the wiki restored, including some aging testimonials from seven
years ago.  :P   I was one of the contributors at that time, too.  Yeeesh.

-- Thomas Adam

-- 
"It was the cruelest game I've ever played and it's played inside my head."
-- "Hush The Warmth", Gorky's Zygotic Mynci.

FVWM: FvwmWiki -- up and running.

[Thomas Adam]

Hello all,

Finally, my fvwm-TODO list is receiving attention.  I've finally got the
FvwmWiki up and running again, albeit in a limited fashion for now until I
convert all the pages over.  You can find the wiki here:

http://fvwmwiki.xteddy.org/fvwmwiki

I am so sorry it's taken me this long to get round to this -- we're really
talking years here, for me to find the time for this.  I know it's been
asked a lot on these lists where it's gone.   Hopefully those of you who
asked will appreciate it.

It's no longer using MoinMoin anymore, since this just didn't scale at all
between versioned upgrades whatosever.  Instead, I've gone with using
ikiwiki [1], which will hopefully ease maintenance a little.

The ikiwiki for FvwmWiki is backed by a Git repository.  The files in
question use the MarkDown markup to describe [2] the pages.  This is
somewhat different to the previous markup used for the old MoinMoin wiki.

I've spent most of today writing a terrible perl script hack to convert the
old MoinMoin files over.  Thankfully, since I've contributed lots to the old
FvwmWiki, I was able to recall most of the pages in amongst all the bloody
spam which was present.   :)  Alas, I have only had time to convert over the
FvwmModule pages -- I'll get round to the others in due course, I promise.

In terms of editing, you'll need to create yourself an account [3].  You can
either have an account directly on the wiki, or if you have an OpenID
account, use that instead.

Of course, because this wiki is backed by a VCS, you can also checkout and
push anonymously using Git, which means the ability to edit/create markdown
pages using your favourite $EDITOR as well.  Hence:

cd && git clone git://fvwmwiki.xteddy.org/srv/git/fvwmwiki.git

Ought to get you started.  This also allows for anonymous push access as
well.  I've enabled this for a few reasons:

* I know from personal experience how annoying it is to edit wiki pages
  directly in a browser.
* Serious contributors are likely going to want to take the time to make
  their pages as good as possible, which isn't likely by editing text
  directly in a browser.

However, I would ask to be careful here -- my domain, xteddy.org, of which
fvwmwiki.xteddy.org is obviously hosted from, is only a tiny VM instance
from bytemark -- it only has 150MB RAM.  It's fine for persistant IRC
sessions, and a webserver, but if I suddenly find that there's been several
anonymous checkouts spamming the wiki to death, I will withdraw anonymous
SSH access, and editing of the wiki will only be avaiable via the browser
instead.

Obviously at the moment, it's very minimal until I convert the existing
pages over (I've got a nasty perl script I've written to do this, but it
still requires some manual fix-up, another sinkhole of my time).  But I
encourage anyone who wants to, to contribute!

This is a great way to contribute to FVWM, especially if you're not a
programmer, and want to turn your hand to improving documentation, etc.
Where I was largely motivated before from the old wiki to structure it well,
my time is less and less likely to be spent on this one (as I am
concentrating more and more on trying to make FVWM 2.5.X stable!)  So here's
some random tasks for would-be contributors to consider:

* Styling of the wiki.
* Coming up with a defined structure for it.
* Implementing page templates for known areas where bulk-contributions are
  likely (c.f. writing pages to describe FVWM-modules, Style commands,
  user-configs, etc).
* Amalgamating other sources of FVWM info to one reference point on the
  wiki.

If anyone is seriously going to do this, would they let me know so we can
discuss it?  Otherwise there's a serious chance for overlap from myself and
other contributors.

Obviously, if this turns out to be some major success story, I'd like to
talk to Jason Tibbets about the possibility of moving it to fvwm.org,
perhaps under the guise of "wiki.fvwm.org", although I suspect we're a long
way off from that.  For now, I am happy to host all of this for the benefit
of the FVWM community.

Thanks go to Klaus Umbach, for hosting the original wiki, and offering to
host this replacement.  Whilst that offer was greately received, the
realisation of hosting it myself for better means of access seems more
logical.   I would also ask that if there is anyone reading this who can
offer a more "permenant" hosting solution for this wiki, then do please get
in touch.

Other than that, I hope this helps those who were asking about the wiki, and
I hope people contribute to it!

Any problems, let me know.

-- Thomas Adam

[1] http://www.ikiwiki.info
[2] http://daringfireball.net/projects/markdown/
[3] http://fvwmwiki.xteddy.org/fvwmwiki/ikiwiki.cgi?do=prefs

-- 
"It was the cruelest game I've ever played and it's played inside my head."
-- "Hush The Warmth", Gorky's Zygotic Mynci.