Re: 750GB Seagate PATA is Dropping Out Again
Bill Connelly wrote: On Aug 1, 2:24 pm, Bill Connelly billycarm...@verizon.net wrote: Not enough power to run it off the internal power supply? (does a 750GB take more power than a 500GB Seagate?) Try using drive power extensions (probably easier to find splitters) and a pc (AT best because of switch) power supply setting outside your case. Turn the pc ps on before starting Mac This will let you know if the Mac power supply is getting week. Something wrong with the power cable? (it works with a 500GB Seagate 7100.10) A Cable Select cable isn't working with it set as Master (which it should)? (again, it works with a 500GB Seagate 7100.10) --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: 750GB Seagate PATA is Dropping Out Again
On Aug 7, 2009, at 2:46 AM, Dan wrote: At 10:15 PM -0400 8/6/2009, Bill Connelly wrote: On Aug 1, 2:24 pm, Bill Connelly billycarm...@verizon.net wrote: In my QS 2002 Dual 1GHz under 10.5.7, my 750GB Seagate PATA is Dropping Out Again. Well it dropped out again. After moving it back from an external FW enclosure, it started up with multiple Bus Errors and eventually dropped off the Desktop. What does it show in the system log? I can't tell. I'll send Dan a copy. I had started Spotlight again, since I had turned it off to simplify things, but I was getting a message like: Aug 7 10:00:18 Moonstone-Art-Studio /Applications/Utilities/ Console.app/Contents/MacOS/Console[285]: installAutoFSMonitor: open failed I have taken to watching Activity Monitor at all Startups / Restarts, and wait for things to calm down before proceeding with any Restarts, etc. What can be said about a drive that works in an external FW enclosure, but drops off an internal mobo ATA channel? If it was working ok in the external box, then the drive itself is ok. Not enough power to run it off the internal power supply? (does a 750GB take more power than a 500GB Seagate?) According to the Seagate 7200.10 specs, the 500 and 750GB drives are essentially identical. In my QS, the 500 works, but this 750 drops out ... Something wrong with the power cable? (it works with a 500GB Seagate 7100.10) I am now trying a simple switch of the internal power cables ... I was using the single plug one for my hard drive, and the double plug one for my ATI Radeon 9800Pro. Logically, I should have been using them in reverse ... which I am now doing, in the event of adding another drive on the dual layer sled. A Cable Select cable isn't working with it set as Master (which it should)? (again, it works with a 500GB Seagate 7100.10) Enough to say drive is bad? Power should be ok. How 'bout internal temp? Could the drive be that much hotter etc? I have the drive mounted on the top level of the double layer sled. Sits directly under the fan. Think this is the coolest position possible ... Do you have a different IDE cable you can try? I have a different CS cable borrowed from my Digital Audio, which worked with the 500GB but not the 750GB one. Currently trying the double ended power cable setup ... so far no drop out ... but ... --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: 750GB Seagate PATA is Dropping Out Again
No, if the drive works fine outside the QS, it is definitely not the drive. It most likely is the ATA bus inside your QS, very likely since you mentioned having problems with cable select. There's a SLIGHT chance it could be power problems, but that's not very likely. Try another drive inside the QS, see if it has the same problems. On Thu, Aug 6, 2009 at 10:15 PM, Bill Connellybillycarm...@verizon.net wrote: On Aug 1, 2:24 pm, Bill Connelly billycarm...@verizon.net wrote: In my QS 2002 Dual 1GHz under 10.5.7, my 750GB Seagate PATA is Dropping Out Again. Well it dropped out again. After moving it back from an external FW enclosure, it started up with multiple Bus Errors and eventually dropped off the Desktop. No PCI cards ... just the ATI Radeon 9800Pro. What can be said about a drive that works in an external FW enclosure, but drops off an internal mobo ATA channel? Not enough power to run it off the internal power supply? (does a 750GB take more power than a 500GB Seagate?) Something wrong with the power cable? (it works with a 500GB Seagate 7100.10) A Cable Select cable isn't working with it set as Master (which it should)? (again, it works with a 500GB Seagate 7100.10) Enough to say drive is bad? -- Chance Reecher 765-4609 491-2286 cnrtechh...@gmail.com AIM: cnrtechhead --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
big hd
a reiend recently offered me a 280 gig drive for my sawtooth 400... will I be able to partition this into 2 100 gig 1 80 gig to make it usable? or will I have to buy something else to use it internally... Instalation in an external firewire case is also an option... --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: 750GB Seagate PATA is Dropping Out Again
On Aug 7, 2009, at 10:41 AM, Chance Reecher wrote: No, if the drive works fine outside the QS, it is definitely not the drive. It most likely is the ATA bus inside your QS, very likely since you mentioned having problems with cable select. There's a SLIGHT chance it could be power problems, but that's not very likely. Try another drive inside the QS, see if it has the same problems. Another Seagate PATA 7200.10 (500GB in lieu of the 750GB) had no problems. Anything different about the hard disk channel use on an internal mobo vrs the external FW? --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: 750GB Seagate PATA is Dropping Out Again
On Aug 7, 2009, at 10:20 AM, Bill Connelly wrote: On Aug 7, 2009, at 2:46 AM, Dan wrote: How 'bout internal temp? Could the drive be that much hotter etc? I have the drive mounted on the top level of the double layer sled. Sits directly under the fan. Think this is the coolest position possible ... Could the drive overheat sitting too close to the fan casing? About 1/3 of the harddrive is covered by this casing, about 1/8 above the drive case. Maybe I should move it to the lower level of the double decker sled? Do you have a different IDE cable you can try? I have a different CS cable borrowed from my Digital Audio, which worked with the 500GB but not the 750GB one. Currently trying the double ended power cable setup ... so far no drop out ... but ... Is there any difference between the single plug power cable coming out of the bunch from the power supply, versus the double plug cable coming from the same bunch? So far testing seems to show a good connection, but we'll need to wait and see. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: 750GB Seagate PATA is Dropping Out Again
There is no difference between the cables coming out of your power supply. They all connect at the same place inside it. Currently trying the double ended power cable setup ... so far no drop out ... but ... Is there any difference between the single plug power cable coming out of the bunch from the power supply, versus the double plug cable coming from the same bunch? -- Chance Reecher 765-4609 491-2286 cnrtechh...@gmail.com AIM: cnrtechhead --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: 750GB Seagate PATA is Dropping Out Again
At 10:20 AM -0400 8/7/2009, Bill Connelly wrote: On Aug 7, 2009, at 2:46 AM, Dan wrote: At 10:15 PM -0400 8/6/2009, Bill Connelly wrote: On Aug 1, 2:24 pm, Bill Connelly billycarm...@verizon.net wrote: In my QS 2002 Dual 1GHz under 10.5.7, my 750GB Seagate PATA is Dropping Out Again. Well it dropped out again. After moving it back from an external FW enclosure, it started up with multiple Bus Errors and eventually dropped off the Desktop. What does it show in the system log? I can't tell. I'll send Dan a copy. I had started Spotlight again, since I had turned it off to simplify things, but I was getting a message like: Aug 7 10:00:18 Moonstone-Art-Studio /Applications/Utilities/ Console.app/Contents/MacOS/Console[285]: installAutoFSMonitor: open failed Turn Spotlight's indexing OFF. Leave it OFF. Simplify the problem. If you're having problems with a HD, the LAST thing you want is something perusing and WRITING to it all the time. That's a sure way to corrupt things. Looking thru the log you sent. Jul 28 00:00:13 Moonstone-Art-Studio kernel[0]: IOATAController device blocking bus. Not good. That and other messages point to the data path between the bus and the drive being foo - iow, replace that cable etc. There are so many write type failures in the log... Can't really tell if it's corrupted or not, but I'm thinking it might not be a good idea to trust the data thereon anymore. Once you get the hardware issues settled, erase then reload it from your backup. - Dan. -- - Psychoceramic Emeritus; South Jersey, USA, Earth. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: 750GB Seagate PATA is Dropping Out Again
On Aug 7, 2009, at 2:07 PM, Dan wrote: At 10:20 AM -0400 8/7/2009, Bill Connelly wrote: On Aug 7, 2009, at 2:46 AM, Dan wrote: At 10:15 PM -0400 8/6/2009, Bill Connelly wrote: On Aug 1, 2:24 pm, Bill Connelly billycarm...@verizon.net wrote: In my QS 2002 Dual 1GHz under 10.5.7, my 750GB Seagate PATA is Dropping Out Again. Well it dropped out again. After moving it back from an external FW enclosure, it started up with multiple Bus Errors and eventually dropped off the Desktop. What does it show in the system log? I can't tell. I'll send Dan a copy. I had started Spotlight again, since I had turned it off to simplify things, but I was getting a message like: Aug 7 10:00:18 Moonstone-Art-Studio /Applications/Utilities/ Console.app/Contents/MacOS/Console[285]: installAutoFSMonitor: open failed Turn Spotlight's indexing OFF. Leave it OFF. Simplify the problem. If you're having problems with a HD, the LAST thing you want is something perusing and WRITING to it all the time. That's a sure way to corrupt things. Will do after it has indexed ... already started when I got your response ... Looking thru the log you sent. Jul 28 00:00:13 Moonstone-Art-Studio kernel[0]: IOATAController device blocking bus. Not good. That and other messages point to the data path between the bus and the drive being foo - iow, replace that cable etc. There are so many write type failures in the log... Can't really tell if it's corrupted or not, but I'm thinking it might not be a good idea to trust the data thereon anymore. Once you get the hardware issues settled, erase then reload it from your backup. Thank You for scanning the log. Weird how I didn't get the dropout of the 500GB Seagate, but I only got it with the 750GB ... same changed out mobo ATA cable. And since both drives performed well in the external FW enclosure, I suspect a problem with the 750GB circuitry? Make any sense? Possible the same drive would work on an external but not internally? I seem to remember someone suspecting externals possibly had better/stronger power flow, so one drive might not work internally, but would come alive externally. It hasn't dropped out since moving it to the double plug power line, and I've run Intech's Integrity simultaneously on 2 separate partitions, while running Activity Monitor continuously, while copying a DVD across the Network, and checking Mail. Guess I should suspect possibility of faulty data on all partitions? --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: 750GB Seagate PATA is Dropping Out Again
At 2:52 PM -0400 8/7/2009, Bill Connelly wrote: I had started Spotlight again, since I had turned it off to simplify things, but I was getting a message like: Aug 7 10:00:18 Moonstone-Art-Studio /Applications/Utilities/ Console.app/Contents/MacOS/Console[285]: installAutoFSMonitor: open failed Turn Spotlight's indexing OFF. Leave it OFF. Simplify the problem. If you're having problems with a HD, the LAST thing you want is something perusing and WRITING to it all the time. That's a sure way to corrupt things. Will do after it has indexed ... already started when I got your response ... Check the system log. If you see even ONE error being thrown stop the indexing NOW. Weird how I didn't get the dropout of the 500GB Seagate, but I only got it with the 750GB ... same changed out mobo ATA cable. Is everything equal between the two drives - same exact buffering and raw performance? Could be that the newer drive is just able to push data faster, causing the marginal cable to fail. And since both drives performed well in the external FW enclosure, I suspect a problem with the 750GB circuitry? Make any sense? It makes more sense to me that it's a marginal IDE cable. Those types of errors... would be noticed while in the external box too, if it was the drive mechanism. Guess I should suspect possibility of faulty data on all partitions? yes. At this point. - Dan. -- - Psychoceramic Emeritus; South Jersey, USA, Earth. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
a FW box with a HDD, and a DVD ROM/RW?
Do anyone make FireWire Enclosure that holds a HDD, and a DVD ROM/RW http://www.addonics.com --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: a FW box with a HDD, and a DVD ROM/RW?
On Fri, Aug 7, 2009 at 7:26 PM, Mullin9ddavidmul...@inbox.com wrote: Do anyone make FireWire Enclosure that holds a HDD, and a DVD ROM/RW I'm not clear on what you are asking. Did you mean an enclosure that holds both a HDD and a DVD burner simultaneously? If so, no, I've never heard of anything like that. Other than a computer, of course ... Or did you just mean an enclosure that could house either a HDD *or* a DVD burner. In that case, yes, pretty much any 5.25 FW enclosure should be able to handle that. Of course, both the HDD and the DVD burner would have to use the same interface. Either both need to be PATA with a PATA enclosure or (probably more useful in the future) everything would need to use SATA. Is that what you're asking about? -irrational john --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: 750GB Seagate PATA is Dropping Out Again
On Aug 7, 2009, at 6:10 PM, Dan wrote: Is everything equal between the two drives - same exact buffering and raw performance? Could be that the newer drive is just able to push data faster, causing the marginal cable to fail. Everything is the same between the 2 Seagate 7200.10 PATA drives except: Size Heads/Disks 750GB 8/4 500GB 6/3 Pretty near the same data on both, except for the OS X 10.5.7 on the QS has the M-Audio drivers ( ... .?. ... ). I was using the supplied IDE mobo cables (short 6 CS ones). Tried borrowing a replacement one from my Digital Audio. I've switched to the longer 18 one supplied in my Retail Kit box, even though I didn't seem to be getting any errors after I switched to the double socket power line ... Now I decided to CCC my backup 10.5.7 to the 750GB partition (done), and I have added back the M-Audio Delta 2496 PCI card. Not sure about cloning back the other partitions: Apps, Docs, Tiger 10.4.11 and Classic 9.2.2 ... probably so. Seems to be working first few Startups. We'll see ... 1 kp after a Safe Boot, while running Activity monitor, but seems level now on Restart. Rebuilt kextcache on Restart, according to Activity Monitor. thanks for your help. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
iBook G3/700 Ubuntu experiment
Well I thought I'd give my old iBook G3 some new life by installing Jaunty Jackalope as I kept hearing about Ubuntu and how great it is. All I can say is if you're a regular Joe computer user, Linux is still not for you IMHO. I don't understand how an OS (Linux) after all these years and with all the past hype still seems like it's in the beta stages as an OS for the masses. Ease of use it ain't (well maybe just for Ubuntu as I haven't tried YDL in 4 years). As for Ubuntu, even with all the apps that are apparently out there for it, it really isn't meant for the PPC. I thought with the end of Apple's support for PPC that Linux was the way to go to get some extra life out of my old Macs especially with web browsers and their plugins. The OS did boot up the iBook much faster than Tiger and Panther, but aside from using Open Office, Firefox was sluggish and I spent hours hunting down plugins to make it work with certain sites i.e. Flash, Quicktime. Also a few plugins wouldn't install on a PPC. I still couldn't find any plugins for Flash and Quicktime. I even installed the ubuntu restricted packages. I got as a far as getting sound from movie trailers and a screen saver effect instead of the video. I don't know, the whole experience was frustrating at times and the old iBook felt sluggish with several apps. Someone had recommended Ubuntu over YDL because of the amount of apps out there. I say most people only need a few of the apps any way to get what they need done. In the end I installed Tiger and the iBook is actually working pretty smoothly. I installed NeoOffice over MS Office to see how much faster it is. I am impressed with it. I may try YDL some time in the future with maybe my G4/1.6GHz Powermac and see how that goes. iBook G3/700 648MB RAM 30GB hd --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
How to get new wan card to work on G3 BW
Purchased from tigerdirect a Sabrent wireless-G pci card. I do not understand how to get it to work. What or where are the instructions to get it to work? All I see on the internet for this type of card is to plug and play. Shouldn't I at least see it as a piece of hardware somewhere? --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
