DVD Functionality for Beige G3
Although I discussed this briefly in an earlier topic on this list, I'm about ready to break down and buy a DVD drive for my Rev. A Beige G3. This came about because I recently ran across the much-sought- after Bordeaux personality card, one of the ways to allow DVD video playback on this machine. I'm in the position, however, where I might have a couple of options, so I'm looking for some input. Because the onboard Rage II+ graphics can't handle much beyond the lowliest of 1997's 3D offerings, I tossed in a 16mb Rage 128 PCI card (the one that came with the BW G3s) several months ago. This card has pin headers on it for a riser card that basically provides the same hardware dvd decoding functionality as the Bordeaux, but because I'm running the 128 on the slower 33mhz PCI bus, I'm not sure whether or not that would be compatible. Has anyone ever tried it? My third and final option is the software decoding approach, but I'm not entirely sure that, even after throwing in a 400MHz G3 and Rage 128, my system would be up to that task. If it makes a difference, I have no intent on ever running Mac OS X on this machine, so we're looking at the pre-OS X versions of Apple DVD Player. What do you think? -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: DVD Functionality for Beige G3
Thanks to some research, I seemed to have significantly narrowed down my options. This page turned out to be particularly helpful: http://www.os9forever.com/DVDPlayer.html ...as did this paragraph: This hack does not enable the hardware decoder card found on some Rage 128 Pro Apple OEM cards. This decoder requires the PCI card to be in a 66mhz PCI slot, which no OldWorld macs have. Further digging into Apple's update archives indicates that only the 2.x versions of Apple DVD Player offer software DVD playback, while completely doing away with support for the hardware decoders, and only through this patched version of 2.7 will I have any access to software decoding on my G3 at all. In any case, patched version or not, I had the feeling I'd be right about being on the edge of the software decoding requirements. 1. IDE or SCSI DVD-ROM drive 2. SCSI DVD drives require Intech's CD/DVD Speed Tools drivers 3. ATI Rage 128 Pro* or higher video card 4. At least a G3 400mhz upgrade card for usable performance The *very* edge. This leaves the Bordeaux card and Apple DVD Player 1.x (Apple's update archives seem to indicate that 1.1 was the last version of this). Unless anyone has any input for/against the Bordeaux option (let alone has one, I sure haven't seen many around), I'll probably be opting for it over software decoding, because performance would likely be too close for comfort. On Nov 16, 9:05 pm, James Chapel dragnero...@gmail.com wrote: Although I discussed this briefly in an earlier topic on this list, I'm about ready to break down and buy a DVD drive for my Rev. A Beige G3. This came about because I recently ran across the much-sought- after Bordeaux personality card, one of the ways to allow DVD video playback on this machine. I'm in the position, however, where I might have a couple of options, so I'm looking for some input. Because the onboard Rage II+ graphics can't handle much beyond the lowliest of 1997's 3D offerings, I tossed in a 16mb Rage 128 PCI card (the one that came with the BW G3s) several months ago. This card has pin headers on it for a riser card that basically provides the same hardware dvd decoding functionality as the Bordeaux, but because I'm running the 128 on the slower 33mhz PCI bus, I'm not sure whether or not that would be compatible. Has anyone ever tried it? My third and final option is the software decoding approach, but I'm not entirely sure that, even after throwing in a 400MHz G3 and Rage 128, my system would be up to that task. If it makes a difference, I have no intent on ever running Mac OS X on this machine, so we're looking at the pre-OS X versions of Apple DVD Player. What do you think? -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Blueberry iMac
On Nov 5, 2:53 pm, Ralph Green sfrea...@sbcglobal.net wrote: Howdy, I'll start with the mouse. It can be upgraded to a LED mouse, but it is a pretty fair amount of work. The easiest route is to find a small LED sensor mouse and transplant the guts into the puck mouse. You will need an exacto knife and some putty. I would not call those special tools, but I suppose that depends on what you are used to using. Good luck, Ralph On Fri, 2010-11-05 at 15:05 -0500, Dennis Myhand wrote: I have just locked on to a Blueberry iMac with Blueberry keyboard and Blueberry puck mouse. How difficult is it to upgrade these? It looks like a sealed unit. Do I need special tools? Thanks, Dennis Dennis Myhand If you want an optical (laser) mouse, Dennis, and don't want to tear apart the old one, keep your eyes open for the apple pro mouse. It's from about the same era as your mac, so it should match your equipment just fine. Besides, most people find the old puck mice rather uncomfortable, anyway. --James Chapel -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: What it's like to own an Apple product...
At least Steve won't be demoing any new G-series macs to pull us from our G3s/G4s/G5s anytime soon. XD On Jun 17, 8:11 am, Dan dantear...@gmail.com wrote: ROFLMAO http://theoatmeal.com/comics/apple - Dan. -- - Psychoceramic Emeritus; South Jersey, USA, Earth. -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Beige G3 Upgrade Questions
Somewhat on topic, I have question which I feel is a bit too simple to warrant a new thread. I recently noticed that the s-video input connector on my Beige's wings card has a few extra pin holes on it, such that you could connect an s-video cable in there or something else... Does anyone know what that something else is? A component video adapter? Some kind of proprietary QuickTake camera input? -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Beige G3 Upgrade Questions
Interesting. Well, that answers the majority of my questions. Any luck with the Rage 128 + DVD Kris? On Jun 16, 1:25 pm, Kris Tilford ktilfo...@cox.net wrote: On Jun 16, 2010, at 2:52 PM, James Chapel wrote: I recently noticed that the s-video input connector on my Beige's wings card has a few extra pin holes on it, such that you could connect an s-video cable in there or something else... Does anyone know what that something else is? AFAIK there are two types of s-video, a rarer 7-pin version, and a more common 4-pin version that's the same physical configuration as Apple ADB. I believe the Wings card has the 7-pin s-video rather than the 4-pin. I've never used the s-video of a Wings card, although the 7- pin port is backwards compatible with a 4-pin cable. This means you must have TWO 7-pin devices to use a 7-pin cable, but you can use a 4- pin cable with any combination of 4-pin 7-pin devices. The 7-pin is slightly higher quality I believe, but not really necessary, which is why it's more rare than the common 4-pin. -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Beige G3 Upgrade Questions
This is strange. The onboard should have 2MB soldered on, and the optional chip is another 4MB, giving a total of 6MB. The fact that yours is reporting 4MB seems strange, but perhaps this is because you're not using the onboard video at all? AFAIK it should report 6MB. I suppose there's a slim chance there was some type of 2MB module, or perhaps your 4MB module isn't seated well and only 2MB are being recognized? I just finished reseating the module (there appears to be only one slot, with what appears to be two VRAM chips soldered onto the motherboard underneath), plugged the monitor back into the built-in video port, started it back up and it's still only reporting 4MB VRAM. Strange. I'm going to look into this. Thus, could I add a DVD decoder card to the Rage 128 while it's in my Beige G3 for hardware-decoded DVD playback? Out of sheer curiosity, though, has anyone on the list ever attempted this? I've got a Rage 128 with the decoder card installed. It works if that's what you're asking? That's what I was asking. I've heard reports that the decoder card might not work correctly when the Rage 128 is installed in the beige's 33mhz slots (instead of the BW's 66mhz slot), but if it's working fine for you, I guess that's all the testimony I need. -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Beige G3 Upgrade Questions
I'm just using this as my project OS 9 box. There are too many problems with the beige's hardware in X to make the jump worth it (no internal floppy support, no wings personality card support, slow bus speed), not to mention the fact that I have stockpiles upon stockpiles of classic mac OS hardware, games and applications to run on the thing. I also have newer computers to handle the heavy-duty stuff. Thanks for offering to test that, though. I look forward to hearing the results. On Jun 14, 11:36 pm, Kris Tilford ktilfo...@cox.net wrote: On Jun 15, 2010, at 1:16 AM, James Chapel wrote: That's what I was asking. I've heard reports that the decoder card might not work correctly when the Rage 128 is installed in the beige's 33mhz slots (instead of the BW's 66mhz slot), but if it's working fine for you, I guess that's all the testimony I need. Wait, I'm going to check to make sure and I'll get back to you, I may have been using a Radeon rather than the Rage card? Also, I don't think the decoder module is supported in OS X at all, so that's a big minus compared to the Radeon. I'd recommend a Radeon, the 7000's can be ultra cheap if you flash a PC card, I'd guess $10 for a stock PC card unflashed perhaps? Even the real Mac 7000's are reasonable. -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Beige G3 Upgrade Questions
It sure sounds like your module is 2 MB or has a bad RAM chip on board making it appear as 2 MB. Try removing it and see if the system reports your 2 MB on board properly. I removed the SGRAM chip, rebooted using the on-board video and Apple System Profiler reports 2MB VRAM. I suppose it is a mislabled 2MB chip, then? -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Beige G3 Upgrade Questions
Probably. You can look at the numbers on the chips themselves and go to http://www.chipmunk.nl/dram/chipmanufacturers.htm to identify what you've got. KM4132G271BQ-10 ^^-^^^- Internal Organization: 32-271 = 256K x 32 (8M bit): check module size/ banks 32-512 = 512K x 32(16M bit): check module size/ banks Each chip is a 32-512, so 16Mbit / 8 bits in a byte = 2MB per chip x 2 chips = 4MB Odd that even after cleaning the contacts, the VRAM still totals 4MB. It looks like I might have to replace it... -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Beige G3 Upgrade Questions
The chips read KM4132G512Q-8. On Jun 15, 7:12 pm, t...@io.com t...@io.com wrote: James Chapel wrote: Probably. You can look at the numbers on the chips themselves and go to http://www.chipmunk.nl/dram/chipmanufacturers.htm to identify what you've got. KM4132G271BQ-10 ^^-^^^- Internal Organization: 32-271 = 256K x 32 (8M bit): check module size/ banks 32-512 = 512K x 32(16M bit): check module size/ banks Each chip is a 32-512, so 16Mbit / 8 bits in a byte = 2MB per chip x 2 chips = 4MB Odd that even after cleaning the contacts, the VRAM still totals 4MB. It looks like I might have to replace it... Do the chips on your module read KM4132G271BQ-10? or KM4132G512xx- xx? If the former, then they are 8 Mbit chips for a total of 2 MB of capacity. Samsung made three SGRAM chips in this line. The two listed above and the KM4132G112 which had a 32 Mbit capacity. Jeff Walther -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Beige G3 Upgrade Questions
I recent have been upgrading my '97 Beige Powermac G3, more out of nostalgia than any particular practical reason. So far, a 400MHz G3 processor, Rage 128 (16MB VRAM, 100MHz clock) graphics card, Orangelink + USB / FireWire card and a Apple 10/100 Fast Ethernet card have been added, giving me a smoking-fast machine that can handle pretty much any Classic Mac OS game I throw at it, and rival many mid-high end (stock) BW G3s. Despite all of this, there are still a few upgrades I want to add, and a few problems that have risen up from the upgrades I have added, that I thought I'd need to call on the LEM list about, so here I am. 1. After installing the Rage 128 and connecting my monitor to the card, not only are the built-in Rage II+ graphics disabled (as was expected), but the A/V Wings card refuses to give me any video output in the Apple Video Player. Connecting the monitor back to the built-in monitor port re-enables the Wings card, but disables the graphics acceleration from the Rage 128. I always that the Wings card was a killer selling point with the Beige G3s. Is there any way around this or will I be forced to pick the lesser of two evils? 2. What model DVD-ROM drive did the DVD-equipped Beige G3s ship with and what speed did it run at (2x? 5x?) 3. Given the fact that my Rage 128 is the same kind that shipped with some of the later BW G3s, I noticed that it includes a connector for the BW's DVD decoder card. Thus, could I add a DVD decoder card to the Rage 128 while it's in my Beige G3 for hardware-decoded DVD playback? 4. All of my PCI slots are now full, so I won't have any room for a faster IDE controller card. However, would I see a substantial performance improvement in using a newer, faster drive or does the stock drive pretty much already operate at the integrated controller's 16MB/s cap? Thanks for your help. That's all for now. :) --James Chapel -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Beige G3, Apple Fast Ethernet Card compatibility problems
I recently picked up a 10/100 Apple Fast Ethernet PCI card for my old standby, a well-upgraded Beige G3, on eBay. While I've seen this card working fine on this machine in Mac OS 8.1 using the Apple 10/100 Fast Ethernet extension, for some reason it completely refuses to work right in 9.2.1, even with said driver from 8.1 and even with the apple enet extension disabled. In short, the built-in 10mbit Ethernet seems to always be the active adapter and the PCI card seems to always be disabled no matter what extension I use and no matter what adapter I have the Appletalk and TCP/IP control panels set to. Any thoughts or suggestions would be appreciated. -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
