Re: Differences between single and dual G4 Quicksilvers [CORRECTION]
Sorry. This is wrong. A dual processor card from a Gigabit Ethernet won't fit *physically* into a Digitial Audio/Quicksilver/Quicksilver 2002. It is mirrored in its design – it would extend towards the memory banks and overlap them, hence won't be fittable at all (even though the connector is compatible). The opposite is also true: a dual card from a DA/QS/QS2002 won't fit into a AGP/GE – it would overlap the IDE2 connector on the logic board, hence won't fit. Apple intentionally designed its processors so they COULD NOT be interchanged, between the 100 MHz bus models and the 133 MHz bus models and, indeed, amongst 133 MHz bus models. Not so, with Giga-Designs, and perhaps others. The physical connector is the same between 100 MHz and 133 MHz, but the location is quite different. Also, there is the issue of overlap of the ATA port connector (133 MHz proc in a 100 MHz machine) and overlap of the RAM sockets (100 MHz proc in a 133 MHz machine). Also, the power system is different between the two 133 MHz bus machines (DA and QS). Giga-Designs carefully worked around the physical and electrical differences, and produced single and dual processors which can accommodate ALL of these differences, in one product, both by jumper selection and by mounting of the fan unit. -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Differences between single and dual G4 Quicksilvers [CORRECTION]
-- Original message -- Subject: Re: Differences between single and dual G4 Quicksilvers [CORRECTION] Date:Tuesday, 05. April 2011 From:peterh...@cruzio.com To: g3-5-list@googlegroups.com Giga-Designs carefully worked around the physical and electrical differences, and produced single and dual processors which can accommodate ALL of these differences, in one product, both by jumper selection and by mounting of the fan unit. Yes, the 3rd party upgrade cards have it all worked out. But not only Giga Designs: FastMac, Sonnet, OWC and maybe some others as well. Most of them work from the AGP to the QS2002. Only some PowerPC G4 7447/7448 cards work only in DA/QS/QS2002 models. And for dual processors there is this instability issue with AGP models that have a Uninorth revision lower than 7, which seems to be Uni-N Rev 3 mostly. (All other G4 Power Macs have Uni-N Rev 7 or higher.) Cheers, Andreas aka Mac User #330250 -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Differences between single and dual G4 Quicksilvers
The motherboards are the same. You can put a dual on a motherboard that came with a single and it will work just fine. -Jonas -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Differences between single and dual G4 Quicksilvers
On 10/15/10 11:46 PM, Powermac wrote: Is there a difference on the motherboards on the single and dual G4 Quicksilvers? Can you go from single to dual or the other way with no problems? Currently I have a QS2002 single G4-800 with no L3 cache that is about half as slow as my QS2001 with a Sonnet single G4-1.25ghz with 2MB L3. So I was thinking of getting a dual G4 chip and installing it into the QS2002. There should be a discussion about swapping processors in the list archives. It was in the last year or so. Try a search at the web interface. -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Differences between single and dual G4 Quicksilvers
-- Original message -- Subject: Re: Differences between single and dual G4 Quicksilvers Date:Samstag 16 Oktober 2010N From:Peter Haas peterh...@cruzio.com To: g3-5-list@googlegroups.com You will need at least the dual 1.0 G4 … Why is that? Won't the Dual-800 MHz from the QS2001 also work in the Single-800 MHz QS2002? Two times 800 MHz will be much better than just one time 800 MHz, don't you think? Cheers, Andreas aka Mac User #330250 -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Differences between single and dual G4 Quicksilvers
On Oct 16, 2010, at 9:01 AM, Mac User #330250 wrote: You will need at least the dual 1.0 G4 … Why is that? Won't the Dual-800 MHz from the QS2001 also work in the Single-800 MHz QS2002? Sure, a dual 0.8 GHz would be fine, but the dual 1.0 GHz are easier to find. The raw (i.e. unpopulated) board is the same between the 0.8 GHz (AKA, 800 MHz) and the 1.0 GHz (AKA, 1000 MHz), but the boards are stuffed quite differently as the chips are different. It is, therefore, not possible to divert a 0.8 GHz to a 1.0 GHz. I suppose is is possible to divert a 1.0 GHz to a 0.8 GHz. -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Differences between single and dual G4 Quicksilvers
-- Original message -- Subject: Re: Differences between single and dual G4 Quicksilvers Date:Samstag 16 Oktober 2010N From:Peter Haas peterh...@cruzio.com To: g3-5-list@googlegroups.com The raw (i.e. unpopulated) board is the same between the 0.8 GHz (AKA, 800 MHz) and the 1.0 GHz (AKA, 1000 MHz), but the boards are stuffed quite differently as the chips are different. It is, therefore, not possible to divert a 0.8 GHz to a 1.0 GHz. I suppose is is possible to divert a 1.0 GHz to a 0.8 GHz. I don't get this. Is the board the same or is it not? I sometimes read that the QS2002 Single-800 MHz board is supported by various processor upgrades, but the Dual-QS2002 boards are not. Why is that? What do you mean by “stuffed”? Do I get this right: chips that are not soldered onto the board maybe? – And these chips are different comparing the Single-800 and the Dual-1000 model? By “divert” you mean to put a QS2002 800 MHz CPU into a QS2002 Dual board? Why should this not be possible, when the opposite is possible? Cheers, Andreas aka Mac User #330250 -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Differences between single and dual G4 Quicksilvers
-- Original message -- Subject: Re: Differences between single and dual G4 Quicksilvers Date:Samstag 16 Oktober 2010N From:Peter Haas peterh...@cruzio.com To: g3-5-list@googlegroups.com Dual processor support was added for real, and for good somewhere in the gigabit ethernet series. The capability to support dual processors is in the Grand Central LSI chip, which is not on the processor card but is on the back of the motherboard. I always thought that the dual processor support came with UniNorth chip revision 7. I implied that the Uni-N chip is therefor responsible for the dual processor function. http://www.powerlogix.com/support/agp_dual_compat/index.html Maybe I'm wrong. Do you have any source for further reading? BTW I have two Power Mac G4 AGP 400 MHz that have Uni-N revision 7 and I successfully ran Dual-450 MHz processors from a G4 GE in them. I couldn't find out if every G4 AGP has Uni-N revision 7 or if I was just lucky to get the right ones. Cheers, Andreas aka Mac User #330250 -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Differences between single and dual G4 Quicksilvers
the boards are the same. period. you can certainly run a dual 800 from a QS 2001 in your '02 without any other modifications, and the benefit is not only two processors versus one, the single 800 on the QS 2002 (just like the single 733 on the QS 2001) has NO level 2 cache. none. there is a huge performance penalty from lack of L2 cache. that is why you cannot give away the processor cards from either a QS'01 733s or the QS'02 800s. virtually no one wants them. (i've got 5 of 'em if anyone is interested.) i have a QS'02 that originally had the 800 processor, and i replaced it with a dual 533 from a DA, and it works just fine. in bench tests with various utility apps and real work comparisons with real world apps, the dual 533 slightly outperforms the native single 933 that was available in the QS 2002. it is also a direct physical swap including the cooling fan and shroud, and no physical modifications are required. only drawback an minor hack is required to install 10.5.6. i have no clue what the other respondent to your question is thinking but ANY DP that physically fits the electronic connection will work. even the 450/500 DPs from a GE will work, except they won't have a power connector for the CPU fan. and all of the third part G4 DP upgrades work just fine, from AGP thru QS'02, no modifications necessary. the only DP CPUs that WON'T work are those from a MDD, because they physically won't fit, nor will the electronic connectors match up. On Oct 16, 1:01 pm, Mac User #330250 macuser330...@gmx.net wrote: -- Original message -- Subject: Re: Differences between single and dual G4 Quicksilvers Date: Samstag 16 Oktober 2010N From: Peter Haas peterh...@cruzio.com To: g3-5-l...@googlegroups.com The raw (i.e. unpopulated) board is the same between the 0.8 GHz (AKA, 800 MHz) and the 1.0 GHz (AKA, 1000 MHz), but the boards are stuffed quite differently as the chips are different. It is, therefore, not possible to divert a 0.8 GHz to a 1.0 GHz. I suppose is is possible to divert a 1.0 GHz to a 0.8 GHz. I don't get this. Is the board the same or is it not? I sometimes read that the QS2002 Single-800 MHz board is supported by various processor upgrades, but the Dual-QS2002 boards are not. Why is that? What do you mean by “stuffed”? Do I get this right: chips that are not soldered onto the board maybe? – And these chips are different comparing the Single-800 and the Dual-1000 model? By “divert” you mean to put a QS2002 800 MHz CPU into a QS2002 Dual board? Why should this not be possible, when the opposite is possible? Cheers, Andreas aka Mac User #330250 -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Differences between single and dual G4 Quicksilvers
On Oct 16, 2010, at 10:01 AM, Mac User #330250 wrote: I don't get this. Is the board the same or is it not? The raw board is the same. The stuffed board is quite different. There are places for two voltage regulator systems. The 800 MHz uses one regulator system, the 1000 MHz uses another regulator system. I sometimes read that the QS2002 Single-800 MHz board is supported by various processor upgrades, but the Dual-QS2002 boards are not. Why is that? What do you mean by “stuffed”? Stuffed is a word of art for the process of picking and placing discrete components onto the raw board, usually by automatic machine. Do I get this right: chips that are not soldered onto the board maybe? – And these chips are different comparing the Single-800 and the Dual-1000 model? All components are reflow-soldered. By “divert” you mean to put a QS2002 800 MHz CPU into a QS2002 Dual board? Why should this not be possible, when the opposite is possible? Divert means to change its function or performance, from one level to another. The way Apple designed the dual 800 and dual 1000 board, although using the same raw board, it is not possible to speed up (change from 800 to 1000) for down speed (change from 1000 to 800) a processor card. On uniprocessors, it is sometimes possible to change the speed through adjustment of certain jumpers, which usually means removing or adding a resistor, possible a zero ohm resistor (i.e., a jumper). -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Differences between single and dual G4 Quicksilvers
On Sat, 2010-10-16 at 19:11 +0200, Mac User #330250 wrote: -- Original message -- Subject: Re: Differences between single and dual G4 Quicksilvers Date:Samstag 16 Oktober 2010N From:Peter Haas peterh...@cruzio.com To: g3-5-list@googlegroups.com I always thought that the dual processor support came with UniNorth chip revision 7. I implied that the Uni-N chip is therefor responsible for the dual processor function. I'm not sure if 7 is required for dual processor, period, or for reliable dual processor under Mac OS X. Either way, you want 7 or newer. BTW I have two Power Mac G4 AGP 400 MHz that have Uni-N revision 7 and I successfully ran Dual-450 MHz processors from a G4 GE in them. I couldn't find out if every G4 AGP has Uni-N revision 7 or if I was just lucky to get the right ones. You were somewhat lucky. I have a G4 AGP/400 which only has Uni-N revision 3. I *think* I need to upgrade to a Sawtooth rev. 2 motherboard in order to get the newer Uni-N. John -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Differences between single and dual G4 Quicksilvers
-- Original message -- Subject: Re: Differences between single and dual G4 Quicksilvers Date:Samstag 16 Oktober 2010N From:ah...clem boneheads...@gmail.com To: G-Group g3-5-list@googlegroups.com […] ANY DP that physically fits the electronic connection will work. even the 450/500 DPs from a GE will work, except they won't have a power connector for the CPU fan. and all of the third part G4 DP upgrades work just fine, from AGP thru QS'02, no modifications necessary. the only DP CPUs that WON'T work are those from a MDD, because they physically won't fit, nor will the electronic connectors match up. Yes, this is also my impression. Only the UniNorth revision seems to be a factor. Anyway, I would at least try a swap and see if it worked. It is always worth a try – dual processors just rock! Thanks, Andreas aka Mac User #330250 -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Differences between single and dual G4 Quicksilvers
-- Original message -- Subject: Re: Differences between single and dual G4 Quicksilvers Date:Samstag 16 Oktober 2010N From:Peter Haas peterh...@cruzio.com To: g3-5-list@googlegroups.com The way Apple designed the dual 800 and dual 1000 board, although using the same raw board, it is not possible to speed up (change from 800 to 1000) for down speed (change from 1000 to 800) a processor card. Sorry, I don't understand this sentence. … it is not possible to speed up for down speed a processor card ??? What is to speed up for down speed? Or did you mean: to speed up *or* down speed a processor card? This way the sentence would make sense to me. If so, I don't think you're right. It should be possible to put a Dual-1 GHz from a QS2002 into any QS2001 as it should be possible to put a Dual-800 MHz from a QS2001 into any QS2002. But… yes, I remember reading something about an incompatibility here. But I don't know why. So, the question still remains: why? (can't I put a QS2002 Dual processor into a QS 2001 and vice versa?) Anyway, I think it is well possible to change the speed of the processor card. On uniprocessors, it is sometimes possible to change the speed through adjustment of certain jumpers, which usually means removing or adding a resistor, possible a zero ohm resistor (i.e., a jumper). Not only on uniprocessors: http://power-mac-g4.com/g4clockup.html Apparently you can also overclock a Dual-450 from a GE. And from what I've read somewhere (no link at hand) people are also overclocking their Dual-1 GHz machines… -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Differences between single and dual G4 Quicksilvers
-- Original message -- Subject: Re: Differences between single and dual G4 Quicksilvers Date:Sonntag 17 Oktober 2010N From:Powermac teozen...@gmail.com To: G-Group g3-5-list@googlegroups.com So what are my options on the slow single G4-800 on a QS2002? As far as I know, every QS2002 processor card should work. I personally would grab anything that is low priced and a Dual processor for 133 MHz system buses. That is: * Dual-533 MHz from Digital Audio * Dual-800 MHz from Quicksilver * Dual-1 GHz from Quicksilver 2002 You cannot use a processor from an MDD or FW800, they are incompatible. You could use a Dual-450 or Dual-500 from a Gigabit Ethernet, but you'd have to move resistors, since these are for 100 MHz system buses. Examples: 4.5 × 100 MHz = 450 MHz 3.5 × 133 MHz = 465 MHz or 5.0 × 100 MHz = 500 MHz 4.0 × 133 MHz = 533 MHz You can see why the Digital Audio has a Dual-533 MHz instead of a Dual-500 MHz processor – the 133 MHz system bus. (Re)move the resistors like described in this link: http://power-mac-g4.com/g4clockup.html In the table “G4 JUMPER CHART”, set the Multiplicator CCU so that it gives the correct CPU speed for a 133 MHz bus. A CPU upgrade card from OWC, Sonnect, Newer Technology, FastMac, Giga Designs or PowerLogix is also a good option, but I recommend at least a Single-1.2 GHz for decent performance. These cards are often quite expensive, even used ones. Hope that helped, Cheers, Andreas aka Mac User #330250 -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Differences between single and dual G4 Quicksilvers
Is there a difference on the motherboards on the single and dual G4 Quicksilvers? Can you go from single to dual or the other way with no problems? Currently I have a QS2002 single G4-800 with no L3 cache that is about half as slow as my QS2001 with a Sonnet single G4-1.25ghz with 2MB L3. So I was thinking of getting a dual G4 chip and installing it into the QS2002. -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
