Re: G4 Dual Processors - interchangeable with singles?

[Bill Christensen]

At 10:55 AM -0800 11/3/08, Paul wrote:
>
>How do you adjust the multiplier?

varies, depending on the manufacturer.  dip switches, jumpers...

>And how do you tell the LSI level -
>are there markings on the chip(s)?


Go to



and run the app in OS 9.1.x or 9.2.x

-- 
Bill Christensen


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Re: G4 Dual Processors - interchangeable with singles?

[Paul]

The Digital Audio G4 is 133 MHz, previous G4's were 100 MHz.

Thank you for all the information - I'm close to nailing this down.

How do you adjust the multiplier? And how do you tell the LSI level -
are there markings on the chip(s)?
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Re: G4 Dual Processors - interchangeable with singles?

[PeterH]

On Nov 2, 2008, at 2:27 PM, Jasiu wrote:

> As I understand it, not every program takes advantage of the dual
> processors.  How do you know which programs utilize dual processors.

Certainly, Photoshop, but also some of the media tools, such as  
TOAST, etcetera.


> If none of the programs you use can utilize dual processors is there
> any advantage to having dual processors?

No, but mainframes have long found ways of utilizing multiple  
processors in order to "level" the workload.

My former employer in an earlier lifetieme made a 16-way mainframe.

If every processor is a true "peer", than any work may be assigned by  
the dispatching function on any processor.

If only two processor, then one usually gets assigned, more-or-less,  
to the I/O initiation/termination function, whereas the other  
processor gets assigned, more-or-less, to the CPU-intensive functions.

It is never exactly 50-50, but for all intents and purposes, it is.



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Re: G4 Dual Processors - interchangeable with singles?

[Jasiu]

As I understand it, not every program takes advantage of the dual
processors.  How do you know which programs utilize dual processors.
If none of the programs you use can utilize dual processors is there
any advantage to having dual processors?


On Nov 2, 12:17 pm, PeterH <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Nov 2, 2008, at 12:04 AM, Paul wrote:
>
> > How much interchangeability is there between the AGP, Gigabit, and
> > Digital Audio models?
>
> > (QS = Quicksilver?)
>
> > Someone local is selling a non-working QS with dual 800 MHz. So that
> > CPU card wouldn't work in an AGP or Gigabit G4, but might work in a
> > DA?
>
> 100 MHz bus processors work in 100 MHz bus machines, if the sockets
> match.
>
> 133 MHz bus processors work in 133 MHz bus machines, if the QS
> (Quicksilver) power cable adapter is made for the DA (Digital Audio).
>
> 100 and 133 MHz bus processors cannot be interchanged under any
> circumstances (excepting certain Giga Designs and OWC, and possibly a
> few others, which are specifically designed to work on either bus
> speed and slot location).
>
> For Apple processors, the connector is the same, but 100 MHz bus
> processors are laid out for 4 RAM slot machines, whereas 133 MHz bus
> processors are laid out for 3 RAM slot machines.
>
> A dual 450 or 500 may be installed in a single 450 or 500, provided
> the LSI is up to the required level (7, I think).
>
> There is good interchangeability between processors on non-Gigabit
> and Gigabit (the "raw" motherboard are actually quite similar).
>
> On any processor swap, the complete processor/heatsink/fan should be
> interchanged.
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Re: G4 Dual Processors - interchangeable with singles?

[PeterH]

On Nov 2, 2008, at 12:04 AM, Paul wrote:

> How much interchangeability is there between the AGP, Gigabit, and
> Digital Audio models?
>
> (QS = Quicksilver?)
>
> Someone local is selling a non-working QS with dual 800 MHz. So that
> CPU card wouldn't work in an AGP or Gigabit G4, but might work in a  
> DA?

100 MHz bus processors work in 100 MHz bus machines, if the sockets  
match.

133 MHz bus processors work in 133 MHz bus machines, if the QS  
(Quicksilver) power cable adapter is made for the DA (Digital Audio).

100 and 133 MHz bus processors cannot be interchanged under any  
circumstances (excepting certain Giga Designs and OWC, and possibly a  
few others, which are specifically designed to work on either bus  
speed and slot location).

For Apple processors, the connector is the same, but 100 MHz bus  
processors are laid out for 4 RAM slot machines, whereas 133 MHz bus  
processors are laid out for 3 RAM slot machines.

A dual 450 or 500 may be installed in a single 450 or 500, provided  
the LSI is up to the required level (7, I think).

There is good interchangeability between processors on non-Gigabit  
and Gigabit (the "raw" motherboard are actually quite similar).

On any processor swap, the complete processor/heatsink/fan should be  
interchanged.


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Re: G4 Dual Processors - interchangeable with singles?

[Donald Hall]

On Nov 2, 2008, at 2:04 AM, Paul wrote:
> How much interchangeability is there between the AGP, Gigabit, and
> Digital Audio models?


The full list, based upon what I've tested or have seen done...


All Sawtooth processors will work in Gigabit Ethernet G4s and Cubes.  
They will also work in DA/QS systems with the proper multiplier  
adjustment.

Single Gigabit Processors are the same as Sawtooth processors.

Dual Gigabit Processors will work in Sawtooth G4s with a Uni N Chipset  
of 7 or higher.  The processors can not physically fit in DA or QS  
G4s.  They can be made fit in G4 Cubes.

Single Digital Audio processors will work in Quicksilver G4s.  The  
466Mhz and 533 Mhz will also work in Sawtooth/Gigabit G4s/Cubes with  
the proper multiplier adjustment.  Dual 533's from Digital Audio G4s  
should work in Quicksilver G4s (I haven't tested).  The dual 533Mhz,  
667Mhz and 733Mhz processors will not fit in Sawtooth/Gigabit systems  
without removal of the Optical Drive IDE connection from the logic  
board, I assume they won't physically fit in a Cube.

Single Quicksilver processors will work in Digital Audio G4s if you  
connect a 12v line to the 4th processor mounting point. Dual  
Quicksilver processors will work in Digital Audio G4s if you connect a  
12v line to the 4th processor mounting point, but you won't be able to  
use the L3 cache, so they will be significantly slower than using in a  
Quicksilver. All Quicksilver processors can be used in Sawtooth/ 
Gigabit G4s if you make the proper multiplier adjustment, supply 12v  
power to the 4th processor mounting point, and remove the optical  
drive IDE connector. I don't believe any Quicksilver processors can be  
used in Cubes.

Sawtooth, Gigabit, Cube, Digital Audio, and Quicksilver processors are  
all NOT compatible with Mirror Drive Door G4s or Xserve G4s.  Xserve  
G4 and Mirror Drive Door G4 processors are also NOT compatible with  
any other G4s.

All Xserve G4 and MDD G4 processors can be swapped.  These systems  
require both the motherboard and the processor to support 167Mhz bus  
speeds in order to run at 167Mhz, if either component is configured  
for 133Mhz, the entire system will run with a 133Mhz bus speed.


Although I've listed what processors can work in what systems, this  
doesn't necessarily cover heatsinks and clearances.  This is  
especially true when adding processors to Sawtooth/Gigabit systems  
which used specially shaped heatsinks to clear the optical drive bay  
and also MDD/Xserves which had many different heatsinks based on heat  
dissipation, height clearances, and component placement (choke  
coils).  On the plus side, all MDD heatsinks seem to be built so that  
they can be used with single or dual processors so long as the choke  
coils fit.  (Earlier G4s had heatsinks specifically for either single  
or dual processor use).




Bonus info about power supplies:

Sawtooth G4 = Yikes G4 = B&W G3
All of these power supplies are interchangeable.

Gigabit Ethernet G4 = Digital Audio G4
(Later era DA G4s were different in that they didn't have an IEC  
output connection for a monitor.  When using such a power supply in  
another system the wall of the power supply will be exposed where that  
connector usually is.   When using a power supply with that connector  
in a later model DA, the connection is covered up by the rear case  
plastic. In either case, the power supply will still run the system  
without issue.)

Gigabit Ethernet and Digital Audio G4 power supplies can be used in  
Quicksilver G4s.
(ADC Power may be disabled (I don't have a lot of ADC equipment, so I  
haven't verified). There are a few NVidia graphics cards which  
utilized the 2nd 28v line of power as a supplement , those cards won't  
work properly in this case.)

Quicksilver G4 power supplies can be used in Gigabit Ethernet and  
Digital Audio G4s.
(You will need to disable the 2nd 28v power line before connecting or  
you may damage your logic board, but otherwise the connections are  
exactly the same.)

Mirror Drive Door power supplies can be rewired to work in other G4s,  
but it's an extremely long process that is neither practical nor  
worthwhile considering they currently sell for 3x that of any other G4  
power supply.  Other G4 power supplies are not suitable for use in a  
MDD due to the extremely difficult process of rewiring and installing  
in a MDD case.


-Donald Hall

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Re: G4 Dual Processors - interchangeable with singles?

[Paul]

How much interchangeability is there between the AGP, Gigabit, and
Digital Audio models?

(QS = Quicksilver?)

Someone local is selling a non-working QS with dual 800 MHz. So that
CPU card wouldn't work in an AGP or Gigabit G4, but might work in a DA?
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Re: G4 Dual Processors - interchangeable with singles?

[PeterH]

On Nov 1, 2008, at 10:57 PM, Paul wrote:

> Is it possible to replace a single processor card on a G4 with a dual,
> and vice versa, assuming processor cards that were made for that
> model?

Yes, absolutely.

There is limited interchangeability between DAs and QSes, on account  
of power issues.

There is limited interchangeability between early singles and a dual  
for them. The Grand Central LSI must be at least a certain level,  
then any processor swap will work.

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G4 Dual Processors - interchangeable with singles?

[Paul]

Is it possible to replace a single processor card on a G4 with a dual,
and vice versa, assuming processor cards that were made for that
model?

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