Re: Heavy duty, feels-good keyboard for typist with a vengeance
On Sat, Feb 27, 2010 at 12:45 PM, PETER WARNER pe...@petermwarner.com wrote: Austin Leeds Well, I suppose this would be an article better addressed to one of the LEM groups for older Macs. Thanks for your input, FFF And you tried to Hijack a thread ;) ??? He was the OP... Oh, whoops! didnt notice that one, sorry lol. -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Heavy duty, feels-good keyboard for typist with a vengeance
Austin Leeds Well, I suppose this would be an article better addressed to one of the LEM groups for older Macs. Thanks for your input, FFF And you tried to Hijack a thread ;) ??? He was the OP... -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Heavy duty, feels-good keyboard for typist with a vengeance
On Feb 25, 2010, at 4:44 PM, James Therrault wrote: The old Mac II extended keyboards were very good. But they were of course ADB. I still have a couple of those somewhere... Look for a Griffin iMate ADB-USB adapter if you want to use one on your Mac. -- Bruce Johnson University of Arizona College of Pharmacy Information Technology Group Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Heavy duty, feels-good keyboard for typist with a vengeance
On Feb 26, 2010, at 9:26 AM, Bruce Johnson wrote: On Feb 25, 2010, at 4:44 PM, James Therrault wrote: The old Mac II extended keyboards were very good. But they were of course ADB. I still have a couple of those somewhere... Look for a Griffin iMate ADB-USB adapter if you want to use one on your Mac. Thanks Bruce... I may just do that. One for my desktop and the other for an old Power Computing 604. Who knows, I might even look for an ol' Quadra 700! JT Love Spell Click here to light up your life with a love spell! http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2241/c?cp=dgYRjZxC50tdkbljRBLZQgAAJ1Hoq79FjCQ74OFkFSWhCpbyAAYAAADNRwA= -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Heavy duty, feels-good keyboard for typist with a vengeance
Yes, I mentioned Matias' Tactile Pro above. Alas, my funds are a bit low to be buying a keyboard that nice (I'm really shooting to get an iPad when they come out). The Yamaha Clavinovas are probably the best-designed electric keyboards ever made. The real levers and hammers make me feel like I'm playing a real piano. As to sound, with the built-in speaker, quality is OK, but put on headphones or run them through an amp, and there's no real noticeable difference between a real piano and a Clavinova. I was a bit surprised when I put headphones on for the first time with one of these things—I thought they weren't working because the sound was so balanced, natural, and lifelike. Only after I took them off and tried playing again did I realize that the sound was coming through the headphones. If the AEK and Model M are as close to typing perfection as a Clavinova is, I'll be in typist heaven. On Feb 25, 10:15 pm, Kasey Smith kasm...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Feb 24, 2010 at 11:28 PM, Austin Leeds firepowerforfree...@gmail.com wrote: So, my question is, are there any of you out there that use keyboards in the caliber of the Apple Extended Keyboard and the IBM Model M? How do you like them, and would they be worth carrying around (with a USB adapter, of course)? Someone just posted this in another thread:http://matias.ca/tactilepro/index.php Also, Clarinovas are awesome, our school has one and it sounds so real! -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Heavy duty, feels-good keyboard for typist with a vengeance
I had a somewhat nerdy thought the other day about getting some old Mac hardware. I have MacTracker, a great little piece of freeware that contains all the vital stats about almost every piece of Apple hardware and software ever made, as well as some pictures, and the startup chime and chimes of death for each. If I were going to look for something that would be economical to use as a small word processing desktop, with the possibility of wireless access through the Ethernet port (WDS with a couple of AirPort Extreme Base Stations), for printing, what would you recommend? On Feb 26, 10:05 am, James Therrault jetas...@netzero.com wrote: On Feb 26, 2010, at 9:26 AM, Bruce Johnson wrote: On Feb 25, 2010, at 4:44 PM, James Therrault wrote: The old Mac II extended keyboards were very good. But they were of course ADB. I still have a couple of those somewhere... Look for a Griffin iMate ADB-USB adapter if you want to use one on your Mac. Thanks Bruce... I may just do that. One for my desktop and the other for an old Power Computing 604. Who knows, I might even look for an ol' Quadra 700! JT Love Spell Click here to light up your life with a love spell!http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2241/c?cp=dgYRjZxC50tdkbljRBLZ... -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Heavy duty, feels-good keyboard for typist with a vengeance
Well, I suppose this would be an article better addressed to one of the LEM groups for older Macs. Thanks for your input, FFF On Feb 26, 10:12 am, Austin Leeds firepowerforfree...@gmail.com wrote: I had a somewhat nerdy thought the other day about getting some old Mac hardware. I have MacTracker, a great little piece of freeware that contains all the vital stats about almost every piece of Apple hardware and software ever made, as well as some pictures, and the startup chime and chimes of death for each. If I were going to look for something that would be economical to use as a small word processing desktop, with the possibility of wireless access through the Ethernet port (WDS with a couple of AirPort Extreme Base Stations), for printing, what would you recommend? On Feb 26, 10:05 am, James Therrault jetas...@netzero.com wrote: On Feb 26, 2010, at 9:26 AM, Bruce Johnson wrote: On Feb 25, 2010, at 4:44 PM, James Therrault wrote: The old Mac II extended keyboards were very good. But they were of course ADB. I still have a couple of those somewhere... Look for a Griffin iMate ADB-USB adapter if you want to use one on your Mac. Thanks Bruce... I may just do that. One for my desktop and the other for an old Power Computing 604. Who knows, I might even look for an ol' Quadra 700! JT Love Spell Click here to light up your life with a love spell!http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2241/c?cp=dgYRjZxC50tdkbljRBLZ... -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Heavy duty, feels-good keyboard for typist with a vengeance
On Fri, Feb 26, 2010 at 8:37 PM, Austin Leeds firepowerforfree...@gmail.com wrote: Well, I suppose this would be an article better addressed to one of the LEM groups for older Macs. Thanks for your input, FFF And you tried to Hijack a thread ;) -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Heavy duty, feels-good keyboard for typist with a vengeance
I can certainly recommend Lindy USB Mac specific keyboards. They use switches rather than a membrane, so they're very positive action (although not the quietest in the world!) and also have two USB sockets so rodents can be plugged in. Don't know if they still make them to this standard: I've bought all 4 of mine off ebay and they date back to G3 days, and come in various Mac colours. They work well, and are relatively easy to dismantle for cleaning purposes. They have a similar feel to the classic IBM AT keyboards that everyone used to love in XT/ 286 days! Regards, Dan. -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Heavy duty, feels-good keyboard for typist with a vengeance
On Wed, 2010-02-24 at 21:28 -0800, Austin Leeds wrote: So, my question is, are there any of you out there that use keyboards in the caliber of the Apple Extended Keyboard and the IBM Model M? How do you like them, and would they be worth carrying around (with a USB adapter, of course)? I have an Extended Keyboard II, a Model M, a Sun Type 5c and a Dell AT101W that I have on several different machines, but when I need to carry an external board to class, I always go for the AEKII, because it is my favorite out of the lot. I'll try and give my benefits and drawbacks to each (minus the 5c, because you have to build your own adapters for those.. It speaks TTL RS-232 over what looks like a Mac serial port(RS-422)) AEKII: Benefits - Great feel, not /too/ heavy, at only ~4.5 lbs. Very quiet for a mechanical board. Plus, it has all the Mac keys already. Drawbacks - ADB-USB converters are a pain to find, are more expensive than a Model M with a PS/2 to USB converter. Model M: Benefits - Wonderful feel, my favorite out of my collection. Very substantial build, makes an excellent improvised weapon. Bliss to type on. Drawbacks - Very, very heavy. Let me emphasize heavy... It makes my Lombards or my ThinkPad seem light in comparison. It is also loud. Very loud, and I've been booted from a class for using it instead of my built-in keyboard before. Only 101 keys, so no Command key. Dell AT101W: Benefits - Fairly cheap, well-built (not quite as well as the AEKII, but very close) and uses the Alps switches, like the AEKII. Also fun to type on. PS/2 to USB converters are cheaper than ADB to USB converters, by a lot. Available in black, as well as beige. Looks a lot like the AEKII. Drawbacks - Have to look at Windows keys, keycaps nearly impossible to remove (like the AEKII), Dell logo. Key lettering can wear pretty badly on the black ones. Keyboards are very subjective, though. Personally, I like the AEKII, but honestly, if I didn't need an ADB board, I'd get the Dell, because it looks almost identical, has the same switches and is cheaper to make work on a modern Mac. Just my $0.02, Caleb -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Heavy duty, feels-good keyboard for typist with a vengeance
Lindy would be great if I lived in the UK. I believe the North American equivalent would be the Matias Tactile Pro (now in it's third revision), which is made in Canada and sells for $149. I'm not quite that obsessed yet. The IBM AT keyboard is known as the Model M, and it came in several revisions, from ancient to fairly modern. The mechanisms in the Model M are buckled spring keycaps, while the Apple Extended and Extended II use Alps keycaps, just like the Tactile Pro series. (I just found all this out last night, but I'm pretty sure I used a Model M or similar in kindergarten on our old Win 3.1 PCs) I'm going to be weighing the Alps vs. the buckled springs, and I'll see what I come up with. Perhaps I'll look at a trackball while I'm at it (whoa, I just had a 90's moment). Thanks for the advice, though. On Feb 25, 7:43 am, Dan Stobbs autolycus.mercat...@googlemail.com wrote: I can certainly recommend Lindy USB Mac specific keyboards. They use switches rather than a membrane, so they're very positive action (although not the quietest in the world!) and also have two USB sockets so rodents can be plugged in. Don't know if they still make them to this standard: I've bought all 4 of mine off ebay and they date back to G3 days, and come in various Mac colours. They work well, and are relatively easy to dismantle for cleaning purposes. They have a similar feel to the classic IBM AT keyboards that everyone used to love in XT/ 286 days! Regards, Dan. -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Heavy duty, feels-good keyboard for typist with a vengeance
At 6:16 AM -0800 2/25/10, Austin Leeds wrote: The IBM AT keyboard is known as the Model M, and it came in several revisions, from ancient to fairly modern. The mechanisms in the Model I have one of these in my attic - from 1985. Is there an adapter that would work on a modern-day Mac? (it's not a PS/2 version, it's the old big round plug). I am using a Mcally iKey bought back in 2002 on my G4 and it's much better than the Apple keyboard but nothing like the old IBM! Diane -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Heavy duty, feels-good keyboard for typist with a vengeance
On Feb 25, 2010, at 7:16 AM, Austin Leeds wrote: Lindy would be great if I lived in the UK. I believe the North American equivalent would be the Matias Tactile Pro (now in it's third revision), which is made in Canada and sells for $149. I'm not quite that obsessed yet. Sigh..I miss the late lamented Northgate. I had one of their keyboards for my Mac Plus. Too bad they got sucked into making computers instead of just concentrating on their magnificent keyboards, and were sucked into bankruptcy a few years later (after, of course, selling the College our very first server, this massive tower (Think back to the early 90's where My tower is bigger than your tower systems were all the rage, about 4.5' tall, 2.5 deep, eleventy zillion drive bays, two or three kilowatt power supply :-) with an ENORMOUS, 'we'll NEVER fill this up!!' Ten Whole GIGA-byte hard drive, in all it's full height, 5 1/4, five pounds glory -- Bruce Johnson University of Arizona College of Pharmacy Information Technology Group Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Heavy duty, feels-good keyboard for typist with a vengeance
So, the Extended Keyboard II has the Alps, but is quieter and lighter than the original and the Model M. That would be nice (although the Model M might bring up some nostalgic feelings in my newspaper advisor—she's a middle-aged English instructor who's been working with computers for awhile). Yeah, I saw the prices on the ADB to USB… ouch. I'm not a big Dell fan… COUGH*cheap*COUGH. But I'm willing to look at it and see. We have crappy keyboards for almost all of our computers here at home, so I think I might look at getting several different keyboards (especially the AEK and AEKII). The PowerBook Duo we have is possibly going to get a floppy here in the near future, so I think I might get an AEK for its sake. On Feb 25, 8:01 am, Caleb S. Cupples calebcupplessocial...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, 2010-02-24 at 21:28 -0800, Austin Leeds wrote: So, my question is, are there any of you out there that use keyboards in the caliber of the Apple Extended Keyboard and the IBM Model M? How do you like them, and would they be worth carrying around (with a USB adapter, of course)? I have an Extended Keyboard II, a Model M, a Sun Type 5c and a Dell AT101W that I have on several different machines, but when I need to carry an external board to class, I always go for the AEKII, because it is my favorite out of the lot. I'll try and give my benefits and drawbacks to each (minus the 5c, because you have to build your own adapters for those.. It speaks TTL RS-232 over what looks like a Mac serial port(RS-422)) AEKII: Benefits - Great feel, not /too/ heavy, at only ~4.5 lbs. Very quiet for a mechanical board. Plus, it has all the Mac keys already. Drawbacks - ADB-USB converters are a pain to find, are more expensive than a Model M with a PS/2 to USB converter. Model M: Benefits - Wonderful feel, my favorite out of my collection. Very substantial build, makes an excellent improvised weapon. Bliss to type on. Drawbacks - Very, very heavy. Let me emphasize heavy... It makes my Lombards or my ThinkPad seem light in comparison. It is also loud. Very loud, and I've been booted from a class for using it instead of my built-in keyboard before. Only 101 keys, so no Command key. Dell AT101W: Benefits - Fairly cheap, well-built (not quite as well as the AEKII, but very close) and uses the Alps switches, like the AEKII. Also fun to type on. PS/2 to USB converters are cheaper than ADB to USB converters, by a lot. Available in black, as well as beige. Looks a lot like the AEKII. Drawbacks - Have to look at Windows keys, keycaps nearly impossible to remove (like the AEKII), Dell logo. Key lettering can wear pretty badly on the black ones. Keyboards are very subjective, though. Personally, I like the AEKII, but honestly, if I didn't need an ADB board, I'd get the Dell, because it looks almost identical, has the same switches and is cheaper to make work on a modern Mac. Just my $0.02, Caleb -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Heavy duty, feels-good keyboard for typist with a vengeance
On Thu, 2010-02-25 at 11:21 -0500, diane wrote: I have one of these in my attic - from 1985. Is there an adapter that would work on a modern-day Mac? (it's not a PS/2 version, it's the old big round plug). I am using a Mcally iKey bought back in 2002 on my G4 and it's much better than the Apple keyboard but nothing like the old IBM! What you will need is an AT- PS/2 adapter (It's just a simple passive adapter, the standards are identical, electrically) and then use an active PS/2 - USB converter. I have both, which I bought from clickykeyboards.com and they work great with my Macs. Caleb -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Heavy duty, feels-good keyboard for typist with a vengeance
On Feb 25, 2010, at 10:21 AM, diane wrote: At 6:16 AM -0800 2/25/10, Austin Leeds wrote: The IBM AT keyboard is known as the Model M, and it came in several revisions, from ancient to fairly modern. The mechanisms in the Model I have one of these in my attic - from 1985. Is there an adapter that would work on a modern-day Mac? (it's not a PS/2 version, it's the old big round plug). I am using a Mcally iKey bought back in 2002 on my G4 and it's much better than the Apple keyboard but nothing like the old IBM! The old Mac II extended keyboards were very good. But they were of course ADB. I still have a couple of those somewhere... JT Stock Options Click to learn about options trading and get the latest information. http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2241/c?cp=ROhtmz9ayKyq9tutUBigiQAAJ1Hoq79FjCQ74OFkFSWhCpbyAAYAAADNAAAQlgA= -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Heavy duty, feels-good keyboard for typist with a vengeance
On Wed, Feb 24, 2010 at 11:28 PM, Austin Leeds firepowerforfree...@gmail.com wrote: So, my question is, are there any of you out there that use keyboards in the caliber of the Apple Extended Keyboard and the IBM Model M? How do you like them, and would they be worth carrying around (with a USB adapter, of course)? Someone just posted this in another thread: http://matias.ca/tactilepro/index.php Also, Clarinovas are awesome, our school has one and it sounds so real! -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Heavy duty, feels-good keyboard for typist with a vengeance
I'm a member of several of the LEM groups, as I operate a whole variety of Macs in a variety of situations at a variety of different times. I have my faithful PowerBook G3 Pismo 500 MHz with Tiger that I use for several hours every day; my sister has my PowerBook Duo 230 that I fiddle with every few months or so; my sister also has my old iBook Clamshell 300 MHz with OS X Puma that I've been upgrading for her; I bought an iMac G4 800 MHz with Tiger that my mother uses frequently throughout the day (and my younger brother plays SNES games with an emulator on it); I work with 2009 Intel iMacs at college for newspaper production and fun; and I am currently preparing to state my case to have an old Digital Audio G4 upgraded at college for use with a Yamaha Clavinova keyboard and Finale 2008. That said, I'm used to anachronisms. I'm probably one of the few people my age that wouldn't mind playing/working with System 7 (or earlier). I grew up unknowingly loving Macs, and my passion for this different breed of computers will continue as I purchase my iPad 3G in April. However, I am a very heavy typist. Between English, my college newspaper, emails, chats, and my yet-unfinished novels, I am constantly typing. My Pismo has a great keyboard for a laptop, but I wouldn't mind having something more comfortable and durable. The difference between the keyboards I work with and the keyboard I would like to have is like the difference between a cheap Casio keyboard and my college's $4000 Yamaha Clavinovas (as close to a grand as you can get in an electronic, complete with real piano levers/hammers and heavy keys). So, my question is, are there any of you out there that use keyboards in the caliber of the Apple Extended Keyboard and the IBM Model M? How do you like them, and would they be worth carrying around (with a USB adapter, of course)? -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
