PCI question
Why are the PCI ports on the PowerMac G4s so long? On PCs they are about 3 1/2 long but on a PowerMac G4 they are about 5 -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: PCI question
Il giorno 16-11-2011 18:22, Alex Barnes ha scritto: Why are the PCI ports on the PowerMac G4s so long? On PCs they are about 3 1/2 long but on a PowerMac G4 they are about 5 I'm no hardware expert, but I think the short ones are 32-bit, and longer ones are 64-bit. Actually there are at least 4 different kind of PCI slots, and 6 kind of PCI card plugs (combinations of 32- and 64-bit, 3.3 and 5V) If you look into PCI on Wikipedia, you'll easily find out. -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: PCI question
On 11/16/11 10:22 AM, Alex Barnes wrote: Why are the PCI ports on the PowerMac G4s so long? On PCs they are about 3 1/2 long but on a PowerMac G4 they are about 5 PCI-X - its fully backwards compatible with regular PCI, but can operate at 64bit and 66mhz or higher depending on chipset capabilities. More common in servers then desktop machines. Shouldn't be confused with PCIe, which is a completely different beast. :) -- Brielle Bruns The Summit Open Source Development Group http://www.sosdg.org/ http://www.ahbl.org -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: PCI question
On Nov 16, 2011, at 10:22 AM, Alex Barnes wrote: Why are the PCI ports on the PowerMac G4s so long? On PCs they are about 3 1/2 long but on a PowerMac G4 they are about 5 There are multiple standards for the PCI spec, and some long cards. The slots in the Mac fit both, the PC ones don't. -- Bruce Johnson University of Arizona College of Pharmacy Information Technology Group Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: PCI question
On Nov 16, 2011, at 10:30 AM, Brielle Bruns wrote: On 11/16/11 10:22 AM, Alex Barnes wrote: Why are the PCI ports on the PowerMac G4s so long? On PCs they are about 3 1/2 long but on a PowerMac G4 they are about 5 PCI-X - its fully backwards compatible with regular PCI, but can operate at 64bit and 66mhz or higher depending on chipset capabilities. More common in servers then desktop machines. No. The long slots in a G4 are NOT PCI-X. The original PCI slot spec allows for a long version that requires the extra slot length. -- Bruce Johnson University of Arizona College of Pharmacy Information Technology Group Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: PCI question
On 11/16/11 10:32 AM, Bruce Johnson wrote: On Nov 16, 2011, at 10:30 AM, Brielle Bruns wrote: On 11/16/11 10:22 AM, Alex Barnes wrote: Why are the PCI ports on the PowerMac G4s so long? On PCs they are about 3 1/2 long but on a PowerMac G4 they are about 5 PCI-X - its fully backwards compatible with regular PCI, but can operate at 64bit and 66mhz or higher depending on chipset capabilities. More common in servers then desktop machines. No. The long slots in a G4 are NOT PCI-X. The original PCI slot spec allows for a long version that requires the extra slot length. Uh, I think your confusing full length cards and regular length cards. Both of which could be PCI or PCI-X. Card length is not the same as slot length. The G4 has PCI-X slots - I have a MDD sitting here, next to me, with a PCI-X fibre channel card running in 64bit, albeit its the older PCI-X standard so it only runs 33mhz. Just confirmed this with Mactracker - there's 4 PCI-X 64bit/33mhz slots. -- Brielle Bruns The Summit Open Source Development Group http://www.sosdg.org/ http://www.ahbl.org -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: PCI question
Il giorno 16-11-2011 18:41, Brielle Bruns ha scritto: The G4 has PCI-X slots - I have a MDD sitting here, next to me, with a PCI-X fibre channel card running in 64bit, albeit its the older PCI-X standard so it only runs 33mhz. Just confirmed this with Mactracker - there's 4 PCI-X 64bit/33mhz slots. Uh... I thought only G5s had PCI-X. Actually my MacTracker (version 5.3) says all G4 MDD have 4 PCI (64-bit 33 MHz) and 1 AGP slots. Maybe you have a newer version of MacTracker? -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: PCI question
On 11/16/11 10:45 AM, Valter Prahlad wrote: Il giorno 16-11-2011 18:41, Brielle Bruns ha scritto: The G4 has PCI-X slots - I have a MDD sitting here, next to me, with a PCI-X fibre channel card running in 64bit, albeit its the older PCI-X standard so it only runs 33mhz. Just confirmed this with Mactracker - there's 4 PCI-X 64bit/33mhz slots. Uh... I thought only G5s had PCI-X. Actually my MacTracker (version 5.3) says all G4 MDD have 4 PCI (64-bit 33 MHz) and 1 AGP slots. Maybe you have a newer version of MacTracker? If its 64bit, then it has to be PCI-X. The extra 2 inches of slot size are where the extra signals necessary to support the higher speed and wider bus transfers come from. That's part of how they managed to keep backwards compatibility with regular PCI. You may be thinking of PCIe, which is in the late 2005 G5s and Intel macs, which is a completely different beast. I have MacTracker 6.1. -- Brielle Bruns The Summit Open Source Development Group http://www.sosdg.org/ http://www.ahbl.org -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: PCI question
According to this from Apple, no G4 has PCI-X: http://support.apple.com/kb/ht3082 From: Valter Prahlad valter.prah...@fastwebnet.it To: g3-5-list@googlegroups.com Sent: Wednesday, November 16, 2011 11:45 AM Subject: Re: PCI question Il giorno 16-11-2011 18:41, Brielle Bruns ha scritto: The G4 has PCI-X slots - I have a MDD sitting here, next to me, with a PCI-X fibre channel card running in 64bit, albeit its the older PCI-X standard so it only runs 33mhz. Just confirmed this with Mactracker - there's 4 PCI-X 64bit/33mhz slots. Uh... I thought only G5s had PCI-X. -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: PCI question
I ran into this recently trying to get a ppc G5 MOTU audio card. even with a long detailed conversation on teh phone with a MOTu tech advisor, we STILL got teh wrong card shipped to me. PCI-X - its fully backwards compatible with regular PCI, but can operate at 64bit and 66mhz or higher depending on chipset capabilities. More common in servers then desktop machines. Shouldn't be confused with PCIe, which is a completely different beast. :) -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: PCI question
On 11/16/11 10:41 AM, Brielle Bruns wrote: No. The long slots in a G4 are NOT PCI-X. The original PCI slot spec allows for a long version that requires the extra slot length. Uh, I think your confusing full length cards and regular length cards. Both of which could be PCI or PCI-X. Card length is not the same as slot length. The G4 has PCI-X slots - I have a MDD sitting here, next to me, with a PCI-X fibre channel card running in 64bit, albeit its the older PCI-X standard so it only runs 33mhz. Just confirmed this with Mactracker - there's 4 PCI-X 64bit/33mhz slots. For future reference, handy chart helping you figure out what kind of PCI slot you are looking at: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:PCI_Keying.png Some background on PCI-X, it was created before PCIe came into existence, as a way of giving servers and high end desktops the ability to use more high bandwidth needing devices such as fibrechannel cards. By default, PCI runs at 32bit/33mhz, which doesn't really have the bandwidth necessary to support the kind of performance the card is capable of. The extra slot length adds more bus pins - specifically the ability for the card to activate 64bit mode and the extra pins needed to do those transfers. Provided the card supports 32bit operation (which most do, albeit much slower speeds), you can take a PCI-X card and put it in a PCI slot and it will work. PCI-X also added the ability to clock the cards higher then 33mhz - both on 32bit and 64bit cards. Towards the mid to end of PCI's lifetime, regular PCI slots could have the ability to do 66mhz and higher provided the chipset supported it. Picture of a G4 MDD showing the PCI-X slots on the left hand side: http://guide-images.ifixit.net/igi/YU2gIgVCdH1L3hSa I believe the Quicksilver motherboards has PCI-X as well: http://www.recycledgoods.com/product_images/u/653/s_p_22951_1__73791_zoom.jpg -- Brielle Bruns The Summit Open Source Development Group http://www.sosdg.org/ http://www.ahbl.org -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: PCI question
Why are the PCI ports on the PowerMac G4s so long? On PCs they are about 3 1/2 long but on a PowerMac G4 they are about 5 The early, low integration PCI cards needed all the space which could be provided by the original IBM specification for the PC. Still, even on a late Mac PPC, long cards can be a requirement. See the Mylex (now LSI Logic) DAC960-series of RAID cards, for example. Although highly integrated, these have cache RAM, battery backup, independent SCSI processors for up to four channels and, of course, the i960 RISC engine, all of which take up space. -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: PCI question
These are 64bit PCI slots, not PCI-X, there is a huge difference. There was an early G5 PowerMac that had PCI-X slots but no G4 ever did. Picture of a G4 MDD showing the PCI-X slots on the left hand side: http://guide-images.ifixit.**net/igi/YU2gIgVCdH1L3hSahttp://guide-images.ifixit.net/igi/YU2gIgVCdH1L3hSa I believe the Quicksilver motherboards has PCI-X as well: http://www.recycledgoods.com/**product_images/u/653/s_p_** 22951_1__73791_zoom.jpghttp://www.recycledgoods.com/product_images/u/653/s_p_22951_1__73791_zoom.jpg -- Brielle Bruns The Summit Open Source Development Group http://www.sosdg.org/ http://www.ahbl.org -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-**list.shtmlhttp://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtmland our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/**lists/netiquette.shtmlhttp://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/** group/g3-5-list http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
