Re: Fink
On Dec 11, 2010, at 7:49 AM, Tina K. wrote: I've read the FAQ on the Fink project but I'm still not entirely clear on what exactly it is. Is it an operating environment a la Java, or an emulator like Virtual Box or Wine? Is it strictly a repository of ported apps with apt-get functionality, and if so why use apt-get instead of normal OS X installation? Or is it something else entirely? The apt-get and underlying dpkg tools are taken from the Debian project. I imagine they're used because they're the best tools available for managing package dependencies. Open source Unix programs frequently rely on libraries shared with many other programs, and sophisticated dependency tracking is required to keep it all straight. Mac OS X doesn't provide a means to list installed packages, check for new versions, select one to upgrade, or upgrade all at once, and keep dependencies up-to-date at the same time, whereas dpkg/apt-get do all of that. The closest analogue is Software Update, which is a decent app but only works on system software. So every other app either includes its own update mechanism (or shares one, like Sparkle) or doesn't provide one at all, requiring manual installation by the user. Also has anyone had any positive or negative experiences with Fink? I tried Fink on my first OS X installation (Panther). Since Fink has a much smaller set of package maintainers than Debian, the available versions tend to lag behind. These days, when I want to use a Unix program on OS X, I download the source code and build it myself. Josh -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
X11 (Re: Fink)
On Dec 11, 2010, at 12:52 PM, Tina K. wrote: On 2010/12/11 13:42, Bruce Johnson so eloquently wrote: All applications installed in this fashion either run on the command line or via X-Windows That makes sense, thanks for the explination. When you say X- Windows, would that be X-11? X11 is short for X Window System, Version 11. Calling it X-Windows is discouraged. In short: Yes, they refer to the same thing -- but one more so than the other. http://ftp.x.org/pub/X11R6.8.2/doc/X.7.html Josh -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
RE: Fink
From: g3-5-list@googlegroups.com [mailto:g3-5-l...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Joshua Juran Sent: Thursday, December 16, 2010 1:17 PM To: g3-5-list@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: Fink I tried Fink on my first OS X installation (Panther). Since Fink has a much smaller set of package maintainers than Debian, the available versions tend to lag behind. These days, when I want to use a Unix program on OS X, I download the source code and build it myself. Out of curiousity, have you ever tried the NetBSD pkgsrc system? It's a cross-platform package system, similar to MacPorts (both derive from the FreeBSD ports system originally). I've used it with Tiger and Panther for ports which did not exist in Fink or MacPorts. John -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Fink
On Dec 11, 2:42 pm, Bruce Johnson john...@pharmacy.arizona.edu wrote: On Dec 11, 2010, at 8:49 AM, Tina K. wrote: I've read the FAQ on the Fink project but I'm still not entirely clear on what exactly it is. Is it an operating environment a la Java, or an emulator like Virtual Box or Wine? Is it strictly a repository of ported apps with apt-get functionality, and if so why use apt-get instead of normal OS X installation? Or is it something else entirely? It's a way of installing *nux-based applications easily, downloading source code, managing prerequisites and dependencies, compiling and installing all the required libraries and dependent packages automatically, and doing it in a way that Apple updates will not break the installed applications. It is identical to what MacPorts (aka Darwinports) does; I think most of the up-to-date stuff has moved to the MacPorts project, but I could be wrong. Fink and Macports happily co-exist on a Mac, but you'll end up with duplicates of things like the Gnome libs because each installs in it's own directory structure. All applications installed in this fashion either run on the command line or via X-Windows; this is *not* a way of installing Mac-native ports of these applications...if they have one of those, there should be standard Mac installers for them. It's not that the most up-to-date stuff has *moved* to macports, rather, the fink devs are glacially slow at accepting updated packages. I submitted a package update to fink in january, and didn't receive any comments on it until april. I use and prefer fink because every time I switch to macports, after about six weeks the ports database gets corrupted and forces a reinstall of everything. So far, haven't had a problem with the fink backend voodoo (a custom perl script mixed with apt-get and dpkg). -sri -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Fink
On Dec 11, 2010, at 1:52 PM, Tina K. wrote: When you say X-Windows, would that be X-11? Yes. -- Bruce Johnson Wherever you go, there you are B. Banzai, PhD -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Fink
On Dec 11, 2010, at 7:49 AM, Tina K. wrote: I've read the FAQ on the Fink project but I'm still not entirely clear on what exactly it is. Is it an operating environment a la Java, or an emulator like Virtual Box or Wine? Is it strictly a repository of ported apps with apt-get functionality, and if so why use apt-get instead of normal OS X installation? Or is it something else entirely? Also has anyone had any positive or negative experiences with Fink? It is a software repository with apt-get functionality, like MacPorts or DarwinPorts. I think they do it this way for the *nix aficionados who like that way of installing software. I haven't used fink but I have used MacPorts and it works okay. Clark Martin Redwood City, CA, USA Macintosh / Internet Consulting I'm a designated driver on the Information Super Highway -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Fink
On Dec 11, 2010, at 8:49 AM, Tina K. wrote: I've read the FAQ on the Fink project but I'm still not entirely clear on what exactly it is. Is it an operating environment a la Java, or an emulator like Virtual Box or Wine? Is it strictly a repository of ported apps with apt-get functionality, and if so why use apt-get instead of normal OS X installation? Or is it something else entirely? It's a way of installing *nux-based applications easily, downloading source code, managing prerequisites and dependencies, compiling and installing all the required libraries and dependent packages automatically, and doing it in a way that Apple updates will not break the installed applications. It is identical to what MacPorts (aka Darwinports) does; I think most of the up-to-date stuff has moved to the MacPorts project, but I could be wrong. Fink and Macports happily co-exist on a Mac, but you'll end up with duplicates of things like the Gnome libs because each installs in it's own directory structure. All applications installed in this fashion either run on the command line or via X-Windows; this is *not* a way of installing Mac-native ports of these applications...if they have one of those, there should be standard Mac installers for them. -- Bruce Johnson Wherever you go, there you are B. Banzai, PhD -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Fink
On 2010/12/11 13:42, Bruce Johnson so eloquently wrote: All applications installed in this fashion either run on the command line or via X-Windows That makes sense, thanks for the explination. When you say X-Windows, would that be X-11? Tina -- iMac 20 USB 2 1.25GHz G4 2GB RAM GeForce FX 5200 Ultra 64MB DDR OS 10.4.11 Power Mac June 04 2GHz G5DP 8GB RAM GeForce 6800 Ultra DDL 256MB OS 10.5.8 23 CD PowerBook G4 15 HiRes DLSD 1.67GHz G4 2GB RAM Radeon 9700 128MB DDR OS 10.5.8 -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Fink
I believe MacPorts is preferable to Fink. You need to have X11 and the Developer Tools (Xcode) installed. Then install MacPorts. MacPorts is command line from Terminal. As a GUI similar to Software Update I've been using Porticus, which is really nice and very simple to use. Porticus is better than Software Update because it shows the entire available software repository of MacPorts and allows you to select any available software for installation or deletion. It would sure be nice if Apple would improve Software Update to have an uninstall/deletion feature. The problem with Apple is that if they decide to make an OS X software repository they'll want to control it completely the way they try to control iPod, iPhone, iPad software in iOS. Without any control so- called bad-apples can introduce malware into the software repositories, but with control Apple acts both as a gatekeeper and a toll collector. How long before the OS X App Store arrives, it can't be too far off. -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Fink
On 2010/12/11 15:26, Kris Tilford so eloquently wrote: I believe MacPorts is preferable to Fink. Fink wouldn't install, it didn't like my permissions even after repair. You need to have X11 and the Developer Tools (Xcode) installed. Then install MacPorts. MacPorts is command line from Terminal. I finally got it to work, apparently the postflight script wasn't creating a proper profile so I had to do it manually. As a GUI similar to Software Update I've been using Porticus, which is really nice and very simple to use. Porticus is better than Software Update because it shows the entire available software repository of MacPorts and allows you to select any available software for installation or deletion. My primary purpose for installing Macports was to get kTorrent but thank you for suggesting Porticus, I will give it a look. It would sure be nice if Apple would improve Software Update to have an uninstall/deletion feature. I have mixed feelings about that. I like the idea in concept but it would need to be implemented better than MS did in XP. The problem with Apple is that if they decide to make an OS X software repository they'll want to control it completely the way they try to control iPod, iPhone, iPad software in iOS. Without any control so-called bad-apples can introduce malware into the software repositories, but with control Apple acts both as a gatekeeper and a toll collector. Yes I like the current setup just fine. I have a pretty good idea what apps I can trust and it's not too hard to get references on those that I don't know. I don't want an app nanny to decide what I can and can't install on MY Mac. How long before the OS X App Store arrives, it can't be too far off. I seem to remember seeing somewhere (Macworld?) that they were looking at January 2011, but that seems pretty fast. Needless to say I am not eagerly anticipating it! Tina -- iMac 20 USB 2 1.25GHz G4 2GB RAM GeForce FX 5200 Ultra 64MB DDR OS 10.4.11 Power Mac June 04 2GHz G5DP 8GB RAM GeForce 6800 Ultra DDL 256MB OS 10.5.8 23 CD PowerBook G4 15 HiRes DLSD 1.67GHz G4 2GB RAM Radeon 9700 128MB DDR OS 10.5.8 -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
