Re: Recommended bootable external Firewire drives for G4 MDD Dual-1Gb
At 9:08 AM -0700 8/16/2010, artemis wrote: So I'm looking at a few options, the LaCie Quadra among them . . . After using USB drives for a while now, I gotta put in another vote for firewire. Even if it's just FW400, it will really really really outperform USB. Definitely worth the xtra $. - Dan. -- - Psychoceramic Emeritus; South Jersey, USA, Earth. -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Recommended bootable external Firewire drives for G4 MDD Dual-1Gb
On Mon, Aug 16, 2010 at 1:45 PM, onelucent oneluc...@mac.com wrote: These are compact, come in much larger sizes than the early days and can be purchased with 7200 rpm mechanisms. FWIW, using a 7200 RPM drive as a USB 2.0 or even FW 400 attached external drive doesn't really buy you anything extra. Unless you use eSATA, USB 3.0, or FW 800 the throughput of the drive is going to be limited by the bus used to connect the external drive. It's sort of like buying a performance car that you know you'll only drive around town and never take over 45 MPH. I don't think there's any reason to pay extra for 7200 RPM if you know you'll only use it in a context where the performance of a recent 5400 RPM with high bit density platters could be just as good. -irrational john -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Recommended bootable external Firewire drives for G4 MDD Dual-1Gb
At 12:56 PM -0400 8/17/2010, iJohn wrote: On Mon, Aug 16, 2010 at 1:45 PM, onelucent oneluc...@mac.com wrote: These are compact, come in much larger sizes than the early days and can be purchased with 7200 rpm mechanisms. FWIW, using a 7200 RPM drive as a USB 2.0 or even FW 400 attached external drive doesn't really buy you anything extra. Unless you use eSATA, USB 3.0, or FW 800 the throughput of the drive is going to be limited by the bus used to connect the external drive. It's sort of like buying a performance car that you know you'll only drive around town and never take over 45 MPH. Ok. You are correct, to a point. The raw media transfer rate of a 5400 rpm disk *is* faster than USB 2 or FW400 can throw data. Typical is 800 to 1200 Mbps (depending on various factors - number of heads/platters, cache size, etc). By comparison, an inexpensive 7200 rpm drive can usually throw at 1200 to 2000 Mbps. The problem is access time, aka seek+latency - the time it takes for the heads to reach a track, then the delay until the required sectors spin around to reach the head. Quite often I've found that 7200 rpm drives will outperform slower drives simply because of the much lower access time, plus the fact that they usually have larger buffers, so you can read or write a whole track at once. YMMV. - Dan. -- - Psychoceramic Emeritus; South Jersey, USA, Earth. -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Recommended bootable external Firewire drives for G4 MDD Dual-1Gb
On Aug 16, 2010, at 9:08 AM, artemis wrote: Thanks everybody for your advice and input - I now feel way better informed to make a choice and am going drive- shopping this week . . . Dan, I tried setting up a clone and booting it from a couple of my USB externals using the option key as you suggested - in my case, the drive appeared in the list - but when I selected it, it wouldn't launch (even when left for a half- hour) - not do-able with those particular external cases, I guess! If the USB drive is fully powered up by an external power supply and it shows in the option list and boot fails I really don't think it's the fault of the enclosure. I do this on my G4 PM MDD's with any USB drive I grab as long as it's externally powered up. I think maybe the CCC is funny. If you have OS9 on your machine you can check this by booting USB with a powered drive from OS9 the startup disk preference. JOHN CARMONNE Yorba Linda USA From TiBook 800 -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Recommended bootable external Firewire drives for G4 MDD Dual-1Gb
I would also look at the OWC On-the-go mini-Firewire drives. (They come in different connection flavors as do the full size OWC products.) I think other companies put out similar ones. The drive can operate with power from the computer's Firewire port or a separate power adapter (used to come with; now, OWC sells separately). These are compact, come in much larger sizes than the early days and can be purchased with 7200 rpm mechanisms. I have used one as the boot drive for an Ibook for many years. AND-I have been able to boot both iBooks and a G4 DA machine from these drives on USB power ALONE, without using the power adapter. Very useful. Too bad the PC world hasn't really adopted Firewire, and I know USB 3 is on the way. We would have more choices and prices for Firewire. -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Recommended bootable external Firewire drives for G4 MDD Dual-1Gb
Hi, Any FW enclosure with Oxford chip set and HDD PATA will do the trick with CCC. The Oxford chip enclosures will boot the Mac's with out fail 99.9% of the time. I'm partial to the Seagate 500 GB drives in an OWC enclosure. but that's just me:-) I would go for an external case with Oxford controller and just a little space at the connector for a 10-dollar adapter so you can fit a SATA hd, You can get more than a TB for the same money you pay for a 500 GB PATA drive. You just need a little adapter for about 10 dollars. Jörg. -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Recommended bootable external Firewire drives for G4 MDD Dual-1Gb
At 4:15 PM -0700 8/11/2010, artemis wrote: G4 MDD Dual-1Gb, running 10.4.11. I'm ready to purchase a Firewire external drive to do the CCC thing and create a bootable backup. Good. I've visited the Bombich site and spent time trawling through the FAQs and other advice, and now I'm more confused than ever. Apart from a general warning about WD enclosures being totally unsuitable and a vague endorsement of a particular Verbatim enclosure, I'm having a hard time identifying an external with the correct chipset that WILL definitely do the job. Any tried-and-tested recommendations from anyone on this list? Yea, information overload. *shudder* FWIW, every external box I've purchased over the past couple of years worked just fine to boot Macs. In fact, you can probably boot your MDD over a USB device (below). My current favs are boxes like the LaCie d2 Quadra. A bit pricey, but they have FW400, FW800, USB2, and eSATA interface. I've also been using a couple of odd ball brands, that I got as refirbs from eCost or new from Meritline. Shop around. The price range can be amazing. IMO, you're good as long as you stay away from WD boxes and mechanisms. I prefer SATA boxes, as those drives are less expensive than IDE these days. WRT booting via USB... Some ppc Macs *do* support it. Try it. Make a full clone on a USB-connected drive (ignore CCC's warning that it's not bootable) then boot your Mac and hold down the option key. When it brings up the choice of boot devices, if it includes the USB drive, try it! If not then stick with FW. Booting/running from USB is slower than FW but hey - this is a backup drive, not your main work environment! HTH, - Dan. -- - Psychoceramic Emeritus; South Jersey, USA, Earth. -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Recommended bootable external Firewire drives for G4 MDD Dual-1Gb
FWIW, every external box I've purchased over the past couple of years worked just fine to boot Macs. In fact, you can probably boot your MDD over a USB device (below). The MDD's and most PPC machines will boot USB sticks and will boot USB drives as long as the drive is fully powered via power adapter not BUS powered. Just boot with option key till the USB device shows. The stick method is the handiest of all IMO:-) Yorba Linda USA Sent from my G3 iMac 10.4.11 -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Recommended bootable external Firewire drives for G4 MDD Dual-1Gb
On Aug 11, 2010, at 7:15 PM, artemis wrote: I have a G4 MDD Dual-1Gb, running 10.4.11. In 8 years it's never EVER missed a beat and continues to be my faithful workhorse for graphic arts and music recording. However, for my two original internal 80Gb drives it's obviously just a matter of time before they fall over. So, in order to safeguard against the inevitable, I'm ready to purchase a Firewire external drive to do the CCC thing and create a bootable backup. I've visited the Bombich site and spent time trawling through the FAQs and other advice, and now I'm more confused than ever. Apart from a general warning about WD enclosures being totally unsuitable, and a vague endorsement of a particular Verbatim enclosure, I'm having a hard time identifying an external with the correct chipset that WILL definitely do the job. Any tried-and-tested recommendations from anyone on this list? Thanks in advance ... For years I reused enclosures after the original drives died by swapping out mechanisms. Then I began buying empty enclosures and putting the drive of my choice in them. I've found Other World Computing to be a great all around source for drive mechanisms and external enclosures. I've bought a dozen or so of these enclosures and have had no problems. http://eshop.macsales.com/item/Other%20World%20Computing/MEFW924AL1K/ They require SATA drives, but that's all you can find anymore and they're cheaper than ATA. It supports FW400, FW800, USB2 and eSATA. Comes with connecting cords for each. Other World Computing has been around forever, they give good service and have an extensive online video library with How To guides of all kinds dealing with drive replacement. Dale Hoffman Louisville, KY -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Recommended bootable external Firewire drives for G4 MDD Dual-1Gb
On Aug 12, 11:16 am, Dale Hoffman dh...@margnat.com wrote: putting the drive of my choice in them. I've found Other World Computing to be a great all around source for drive mechanisms and external enclosures. I've bought a dozen or so of these enclosures and have had no problems. http://eshop.macsales.com/item/Other%20World%20Computing/MEFW924AL1K/ They require SATA drives, but that's all you can find anymore and they're cheaper than ATA. It supports FW400, FW800, USB2 and eSATA. Comes with connecting cords for each. Other World Computing has been around forever, they give good service and have an extensive online video library with How To guides of all kinds dealing with drive replacement. I like what Dale and Dan both say about the quad interfaces. If you limit yourself to the two interfaces you have with your old Mac, you may need one of the other interfaces for your next Mac. I have one of the macsales/OWC 1TB Mercury Quad boxes with a Hitachi drive. It works like a champ for CCC with iBook FW 400, MacBook USB, and two Intel iMacs, using FW 400, and FW 800. Al Poulin -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Recommended bootable external Firewire drives for G4 MDD Dual-1Gb
On Aug 12, 2010, at 1:09 PM, Al Poulin wrote: I like what Dale and Dan both say about the quad interfaces. If you limit yourself to the two interfaces you have with your old Mac, you may need one of the other interfaces for your next Mac. I have one of the macsales/OWC 1TB Mercury Quad boxes with a Hitachi drive. It works like a champ for CCC with iBook FW 400, MacBook USB, and two Intel iMacs, using FW 400, and FW 800. Al Poulin The OWC USB FW 400 enclosure will also work on FW 800 ports as well the cable is the detemining component here, The cost of the enclosure is cheaper than the Quad box. So for back up and bootable use IMHO the USB and FW400 covers all the bases on all machines no Apples have eSATA ports unless you upgrade them and then that's another can of worms. Actually a Combo 500GB USB FW portable shirt drive will suit all in good fashion and real cheap now days. John Carmonne Yorba Linda USA Sent from my MBP -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Recommended bootable external Firewire drives for G4 MDD Dual-1Gb
On Aug 11, 2010, at 4:15 PM, artemis wrote: I have a G4 MDD Dual-1Gb, running 10.4.11. In 8 years it's never EVER missed a beat and continues to be my faithful workhorse for graphic arts and music recording. However, for my two original internal 80Gb drives it's obviously just a matter of time before they fall over. So, in order to safeguard against the inevitable, I'm ready to purchase a Firewire external drive to do the CCC thing and create a bootable backup. I've visited the Bombich site and spent time trawling through the FAQs and other advice, and now I'm more confused than ever. Apart from a general warning about WD enclosures being totally unsuitable, and a vague endorsement of a particular Verbatim enclosure, I'm having a hard time identifying an external with the correct chipset that WILL definitely do the job. Any tried-and-tested recommendations from anyone on this list? Thanks in advance ... Any FW enclosure with Oxford chip set and HDD PATA will do the trick with CCC. The Oxford chip enclosures will boot the Mac's with out fail 99.9% of the time. I'm partial to the Seagate 500 GB drives in an OWC enclosure. but that's just me:-) John Carmonne Yorba Linda USA Sent from my MBP -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
