Re: Sawtooth Upgrade

[Mac User #330250]

--  Original message  --
Subject: Sawtooth Upgrade
Date:Thursday, 06. January 2011
From:Jasiu 
To:  "G-Group" 
> I have a 400 MHZ G4 Sawtooth that I would like to upgrade.  Switching
> the processor is prohibitively expensive.  What kind of video card can
> I stick in this?  What about a SATA card?  Thanks

Funny. I'm just selling one of my processor upgrades on eBay...

I suggest a 7455 processor upgrade, since I've heard that 7447a/7448 upgrades 
tend to make some trouble. But I don't know for sure.

I'm most satisfied with my OWC Mercury Extreme 1.4 GHz G4, but the Giga 
Designs G4 upgrades make a good impression too. I've never had hands on Sonnet 
and others.

I also successfully overclocked a stock Dual-450 MHz to Dual-500 MHz. Since 
the performance impact wasn't so well this was just a project to prove that 
it's possible. But it certainly makes overclocking a 800 MHz processor to 1 
GHz or a Dual-1 GHz processor to Dual-1.1 GHz or even Dual 1.2 GHz sound very 
interesting...

When I tried to upgrade my G4 AGP Graphics for the use with Leopard I found 
that the processor is only one part of it. A graphics card with Quartz Extreme 
and Core Image support is as importaint to get the real Leopard experience. 
Otherwise working with it is no fun.

I'm at a dead point right now because flashing some PC cards that I had laying 
around didn't work out that well. One GeForce3 Ti200 does work... partly. The 
Open Firmware part is broken, thus the initial picture distorted and unusable. 
But once the graphics driver from Mac OS X 10.4/10.5 takes over control, the 
picture is alright and the graphics performace is quite okay with Leopard (no 
Core Image though!). That's how I use it...

If you're willing to play with flash graphics card firmwares and also with 
solding on CPU daughter cards for overclocking -- then you may be able to get 
your upgrades cheaper. But you will have to make this to your hobby, and you 
may as well be stuck at a dead point from time to time (like me right now).

Otherwise these upgrades (processor + graphics + memory) tend to be more 
expensive than getting a used high-end G4 (which is now low-end I guess), or 
even a lower-end G5. Considering what you pay you will most likely get more 
worth out of your money than by upgrading your Sawtooth...


Cheers,
Andreas  aka  Mac User #330250

-- 
You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for 
those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs.
The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette 
guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml
To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list

Re: Sawtooth Upgrade

[Eric Volker]

On Jan 5, 2011, at 7:13 PM, Jasiu wrote:

> I have a 400 MHZ G4 Sawtooth that I would like to upgrade.  Switching
> the processor is prohibitively expensive.  What kind of video card can
> I stick in this?  What about a SATA card?  Thanks

The effectiveness of a video card upgrade may depend on which OS you're 
running. I believe Quartz Extreme and Core Image debuted in Tiger, and are used 
extensively throughout the UI. For a while, I was running a Radeon 9700 in a 
Sawtooth (with a 1GHz CPU w/ no L3 cache) and Leopard, and performance was 
quite good.   My processor upgrade was not terribly expensive, though not cheap 
either(~$100) and was well worth the money. Problem is, a decent graphics card 
with Quartz/Core Image support isn't going to be that much less expensive than 
a low-end CPU. Watch LEM Swap for deals, though CPU upgrades don't seem to 
appear all that often.

As for the SATA card I believe any Mac-compatible SATA PCI card will work. 
Watch to make sure that the card you get is bootable, if that's important to 
you.

A more economic upgrade may be to get an altogether new Mac with a faster CPU. 
G4 towers (and even some G5's) are dirt cheap these days.

Eric 

-- 
You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for 
those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs.
The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette 
guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml
To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list

Sawtooth Upgrade

[Jasiu]

I have a 400 MHZ G4 Sawtooth that I would like to upgrade.  Switching
the processor is prohibitively expensive.  What kind of video card can
I stick in this?  What about a SATA card?  Thanks

-- 
You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for 
those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs.
The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette 
guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml
To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list

Re: Sawtooth upgrade to Gigabit Ethernet PCI card

[Sean Carroll]

Power Mac G4 Sawtooth 450 MHz, 512 MB RAM, running Mac OS Tiger
10.4.11

> If the PCI gigabit E-net card has a Realtek 8169 chip, then it is
> supported OOTB by MacOS X.

Thanks. I'm encouraged. This is one of the simpler ways I can
"upgrade" here, then, i.e., get back to where I was with the Gigabit
Ethernet G4 I had, for starters.

Sean

-- 
You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for 
those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs.
The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette 
guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml
To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list

Re: Sawtooth upgrade to Gigabit Ethernet PCI card

[peterhaas]

> Sorry, another rather simple question that I couldn't find an answer
> to scouring the archives here. Going from a Gigabit Ethernet Power Mac
> G4 to a Sawtooth, I didn't know if I'd notice so much of a difference
> in connection speed. But I do (of course, you're saying). I have found
> the following (stock # gigaenetcard-ks):

If the PCI gigabit E-net card has a Realtek 8169 chip, then it is
supported OOTB by MacOS X.

Also, Reaktek is perhaps the only maker of gigabit cards which has
developed and released an OS9 driver for its gigabit E-net card.

AFAIK, the only Realtek gigabit cards which require a special driver
(other than the 8169 and OS9) are the 8168 PCI-e cards, and those are for
Intel Macs.

8169 cards are good for those cases where the on-mobo chip has gone south
or you're running a Hackintosh and require a 100 percent Apple-compatible
solution.

On-mobo 8168 solutions, or the competitive Marvell 88E80xx solutions,
require hacking the IONetworkingFamily kext.



-- 
You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for 
those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs.
The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette 
guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml
To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list

Sawtooth upgrade to Gigabit Ethernet PCI card

[Sean Carroll]

Power Mac G4 Sawtooth 450 MHz, 512 MB RAM, running Mac OS Tiger
10.4.11

Sorry, another rather simple question that I couldn't find an answer
to scouring the archives here. Going from a Gigabit Ethernet Power Mac
G4 to a Sawtooth, I didn't know if I'd notice so much of a difference
in connection speed. But I do (of course, you're saying). I have found
the following (stock # gigaenetcard-ks):

http://stn2.headgap.com/resale/FMPro?-token=13618119&-db=ProductsC.fp3&-lay=WEB&-format=items.htm&-sortfield=SortID&-Max=40&category=network&-find

Good? No good? If good, imagine you were me and knew nothing, and give
me a heads-up on what I need to consider before I have such a PCI card
in my hand and am about to install it. One question that comes to mind
is what *else* do I need here?Brave soul that I am, I just opened the
side door and peered in (I've considerately deleted the stream of
typing that resulted from putting the display on the keyboard).
Mechanically, physically, it looks simple enough. Install the card,
hopefully with the jack for the Ethernet cable facing out and maybe
even with the face plate removed, and then, if I can remember to to
plug the Ethernet cable in there, I should be good to go. Right?

Sean

-- 
You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for 
those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs.
The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette 
guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml
To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list

Re: G4 Sawtooth Upgrade

[Dennis Myhand]

glen wrote:
> 
> 
>>> I think this dual processor compatibility check needs to be run in OS 9. 
>>> Don't 
>> know of a checker for OS X or any terminal commands that may do the same. I 
>> do 
>> know it works under OS 9 and established my Sawtooth was dual process 
>> capable . 
>> --glen
>> I ran a couple of the different utilities I found on the site and both 
>> ran fine in OS 10.4.11
>>
> 
> That's good to know. Are your referring to the Newertech site? What utilities 
> did you find? --glen
> 
> 

I used the one found on this page:

http://eshop.macsales.com/tech_center/index.cfm?page=Static/uni-north.html

And now that I look at what I did, I found I ran the same utility twice. 
  But is is OS 10 and I can't see why it would be inaccurate, unless OWC 
is simply trying to sell dual proc upgrades.  I doubt they would remain 
in business long if that were the case.  Peace, Dennis



--~--~-~--~~~---~--~~
You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a 
group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on 
Power Macs.
The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette 
guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml
To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
For more options, visit this group at 
http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en
Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml
-~--~~~~--~~--~--~---

Re: G4 Sawtooth Upgrade

[dc]

In Terminal type:

ioreg -n uni-n | grep device-rev

Press 'Enter' and you will get a "device-rev" number, look for seven
zeroes followed by a digit. If the device rev is 0003 you cannot
run a dual processor; any other number you should be able to.

Or use the utility found here:
http://newertech.com/tech_support/uni-north.php


On Nov 26, 8:42 am, Jasiu <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> For some reason even though I am is OS X I have a problem running that
> program.  I thought there was a way that you can type in somerthing in
> a terminal mode and get the answer
>
> On Nov 24, 7:06 pm, glen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > > How can I tell if I can install dual processors on my 400 MHZ
> > > Sawtooth?
>
> > According to OWC, dual processor upgrades reguires a Uni-N 7 or later 
> > Sawtooth board
>
> > See:
>
> > 
>
> > to determine if your Sawtooth is compatible for dual processors. --glen
--~--~-~--~~~---~--~~
You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a 
group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on 
Power Macs.
The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette 
guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml
To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
For more options, visit this group at 
http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en
Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml
-~--~~~~--~~--~--~---

Re: G4 Sawtooth Upgrade

[glen]

> > I think this dual processor compatibility check needs to be run in OS 9. 
> > Don't 
> know of a checker for OS X or any terminal commands that may do the same. I 
> do 
> know it works under OS 9 and established my Sawtooth was dual process capable 
> . 
> --glen
> > 
> 
> I ran a couple of the different utilities I found on the site and both 
> ran fine in OS 10.4.11
> 

That's good to know. Are your referring to the Newertech site? What utilities 
did you find? --glen



  

--~--~-~--~~~---~--~~
You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a 
group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on 
Power Macs.
The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette 
guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml
To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
For more options, visit this group at 
http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en
Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml
-~--~~~~--~~--~--~---

Re: G4 Sawtooth Upgrade

[Dennis Myhand]

glen wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think this dual processor compatibility check needs to be run in OS 9. 
> Don't know of a checker for OS X or any terminal commands that may do the 
> same. I do know it works under OS 9 and established my Sawtooth was dual 
> process capable . --glen
> 

I ran a couple of the different utilities I found on the site and both 
ran fine in OS 10.4.11

--~--~-~--~~~---~--~~
You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a 
group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on 
Power Macs.
The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette 
guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml
To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
For more options, visit this group at 
http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en
Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml
-~--~~~~--~~--~--~---

Re: G4 Sawtooth Upgrade

[glen]

--- On Wed, 11/26/08, Jasiu <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> From: Jasiu <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: Re: G4 Sawtooth Upgrade
> To: "G3-5 List" 
> Date: Wednesday, November 26, 2008, 8:42 AM
> For some reason even though I am is OS X I have a problem
> running that
> program.  I thought there was a way that you can type in
> somerthing in
> a terminal mode and get the answer
> 
> On Nov 24, 7:06 pm, glen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
> > > How can I tell if I can install dual processors
> on my 400 MHZ
> > > Sawtooth?
> >
> > According to OWC, dual processor upgrades reguires a
> Uni-N 7 or later Sawtooth board
> >
> > See:
> >
> >
> <http://newertech.com/tech_support/uni-north.php>
> >
> > to determine if your Sawtooth is compatible for dual
> processors. --glen

I think this dual processor compatibility check needs to be run in OS 9. Don't 
know of a checker for OS X or any terminal commands that may do the same. I do 
know it works under OS 9 and established my Sawtooth was dual process capable . 
--glen


  

--~--~-~--~~~---~--~~
You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a 
group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on 
Power Macs.
The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette 
guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml
To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
For more options, visit this group at 
http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en
Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml
-~--~~~~--~~--~--~---

Re: G4 Sawtooth Upgrade

[Jasiu]

For some reason even though I am is OS X I have a problem running that
program.  I thought there was a way that you can type in somerthing in
a terminal mode and get the answer

On Nov 24, 7:06 pm, glen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > How can I tell if I can install dual processors on my 400 MHZ
> > Sawtooth?
>
> According to OWC, dual processor upgrades reguires a Uni-N 7 or later 
> Sawtooth board
>
> See:
>
> 
>
> to determine if your Sawtooth is compatible for dual processors. --glen
--~--~-~--~~~---~--~~
You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a 
group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on 
Power Macs.
The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette 
guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml
To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
For more options, visit this group at 
http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en
Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml
-~--~~~~--~~--~--~---

Re: G4 Sawtooth Upgrade

[glen]

> How can I tell if I can install dual processors on my 400 MHZ
> Sawtooth? 

According to OWC, dual processor upgrades reguires a Uni-N 7 or later Sawtooth 
board

See:



to determine if your Sawtooth is compatible for dual processors. --glen



  

--~--~-~--~~~---~--~~
You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a 
group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on 
Power Macs.
The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette 
guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml
To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
For more options, visit this group at 
http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en
Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml
-~--~~~~--~~--~--~---

Re: G4 Sawtooth Upgrade

[Jasiu]

Bruce,

Did you install the new processor yourself?  How difficult is it to
do?

On Nov 24, 5:02 pm, Bruce Johnson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
> On Nov 24, 2008, at 2:37 PM, Jasiu wrote:
>
>
>
> > How can I tell if I can install dual processors on my 400 MHZ
> > Sawtooth?
>
> There are numerous DP upgrades for that one, both third party made for  
> it, and ones that shipped from Apple (although those were only ever  
> dual 500's iirc), whether they're cost-effective is an entirely  
> different subject.
>
> >  Is the installation of DP even warranted or should I just
> > install a faster single processor?
>
> A single 1Ghz upgrade for that is cheap, and quite effective. I have  
> the GigEthernet Mac (same as Sawtooth but faster ethernet and another  
> few minor diffs) with a OWC 1Gig upgrade in mine and it's still quite  
> serviceable. A faster video card than the stock is almost as good an  
> upgrade, though. I have a ATI Radeon 9000 in mine (iirc...their low  
> end upgrade) and it's helped as well.
>
> >  Are there many programs that take
> > advantage of duals?
>
> Depending on the OS version, a lot. OS X itself makes good use of DP  
> architectures.
>
> That said, any program that crunches that hard probably is better  
> served by saving your money for a newer, faster Mac.
>
> --
> Bruce Johnson
> University of Arizona
> College of Pharmacy
> Information Technology Group
>
> Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs
--~--~-~--~~~---~--~~
You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a 
group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on 
Power Macs.
The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette 
guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml
To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
For more options, visit this group at 
http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en
Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml
-~--~~~~--~~--~--~---

Re: G4 Sawtooth Upgrade

[Bruce Johnson]

On Nov 24, 2008, at 2:37 PM, Jasiu wrote:

>
> How can I tell if I can install dual processors on my 400 MHZ
> Sawtooth?

There are numerous DP upgrades for that one, both third party made for  
it, and ones that shipped from Apple (although those were only ever  
dual 500's iirc), whether they're cost-effective is an entirely  
different subject.

>  Is the installation of DP even warranted or should I just
> install a faster single processor?

A single 1Ghz upgrade for that is cheap, and quite effective. I have  
the GigEthernet Mac (same as Sawtooth but faster ethernet and another  
few minor diffs) with a OWC 1Gig upgrade in mine and it's still quite  
serviceable. A faster video card than the stock is almost as good an  
upgrade, though. I have a ATI Radeon 9000 in mine (iirc...their low  
end upgrade) and it's helped as well.

>  Are there many programs that take
> advantage of duals?

Depending on the OS version, a lot. OS X itself makes good use of DP  
architectures.

That said, any program that crunches that hard probably is better  
served by saving your money for a newer, faster Mac.

-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs



--~--~-~--~~~---~--~~
You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a 
group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on 
Power Macs.
The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette 
guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml
To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
For more options, visit this group at 
http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en
Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml
-~--~~~~--~~--~--~---

G4 Sawtooth Upgrade

[Jasiu]

How can I tell if I can install dual processors on my 400 MHZ
Sawtooth?  Is the installation of DP even warranted or should I just
install a faster single processor?  Are there many programs that take
advantage of duals?
--~--~-~--~~~---~--~~
You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a 
group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on 
Power Macs.
The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette 
guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml
To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
For more options, visit this group at 
http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en
Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml
-~--~~~~--~~--~--~---