Re: Virtual Snow Leopard in Lion?
On Jul 21, 10:52 am, Rich starrf...@valley.net wrote: I'm pretty annoyed that Apple expects me to replace a lot of apps that have been reliable for years now that they are dropping Rosetta. It's too expensive to consider. I was wondering if a workaround might be to run a virtual copy of Snow Leopard within Lion? VirtualBox works with Leopard and Snow Leopard Server versions. From their website: Mac OS X Server (Leopard, Snow Leopard) Works without Additions I run Windows 7 and XP from VirtualBox on my MacPro and they seem just a little slower than when I boot Windows from Bootcamp. I find VirtualBox much more convenient than rebooting in Bootcamp. I would think you could pick up a used copy of Leopard Server pretty cheaply. -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Virtual Snow Leopard in Lion?
I'm pretty annoyed that Apple expects me to replace a lot of apps that have been reliable for years now that they are dropping Rosetta. It's too expensive to consider. I was wondering if a workaround might be to run a virtual copy of Snow Leopard within Lion? If this is possible, how big would the performance hit be? I'm talking especially about older versions of Photoshop (8) and Final Cut (4.5) which are still very useful but could suffer if really slowed down. I probably just won't upgrade, or will reboot to the older system when necessary. Just checking out the options. Rich -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Virtual Snow Leopard in Lion?
An option for a fast switch back to SL would be great, I agree. As far as the dropping Rosetta, to expect 'forever' support for old software to run on new systems is unreasonable. When I look at activity monitor to see what I will lose, I'm fortunate. Office, I'm running an old version, I actually have a newer one I haven't installed yet. And GraphicConverter. I've used the free version for 15 years. Maybe it's time to pay up and get the latest Intel only version. So far those are my two issues going to lion. On Jul 21, 10:52 am, Rich starrf...@valley.net wrote: I'm pretty annoyed that Apple expects me to replace a lot of apps that have been reliable for years now that they are dropping Rosetta. It's too expensive to consider. -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Virtual Snow Leopard in Lion?
Rich, Why don't you partition your Mac and run both? That's my plan for next week. --Bruce On Thu, Jul 21, 2011 at 10:52 AM, Rich starrf...@valley.net wrote: I'm pretty annoyed that Apple expects me to replace a lot of apps that have been reliable for years now that they are dropping Rosetta. It's too expensive to consider. I was wondering if a workaround might be to run a virtual copy of Snow Leopard within Lion? If this is possible, how big would the performance hit be? I'm talking especially about older versions of Photoshop (8) and Final Cut (4.5) which are still very useful but could suffer if really slowed down. I probably just won't upgrade, or will reboot to the older system when necessary. Just checking out the options. Rich -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Virtual Snow Leopard in Lion?
At 4:04 PM -0400 7/21/2011, Bruce Rubin wrote: Why don't you partition your Mac and run both? Then what? Sit there waiting for your computer to reboot every time you want to switch to a different application? There are quite a few apps that just won't run under Lion. They're either ppc or just plain incompatible. Not everyone is floating in the megabucks, to the point they can afford to upgrade everything. So what do you do? You either ignore Lion. Or you go virtual... - Dan. -- - Psychoceramic Emeritus; South Jersey, USA, Earth. -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Virtual Snow Leopard in Lion?
Dan, Or you go virtual... From what I've been reading the past few days, the Apple license doesn't allow doing that. Is that what the ... is for? There seems to be a bigger (or more vocal) outrage that 10.7 doesn't have Rosetta than when 10.6 only ran on Intel Macs or when 10.5 dropped the Classic Environment. BTW, has anybody tried installing Rosetta AFTER they've installed 10.7 from the 10.6 installation DVD (Double-click the Optional Installs folder, and then double-click the Optional Installs package. Follow the onscreen instructions. Select the disk where you want to install Rosetta and click Continue. Select the checkbox next to Rosetta, click Continue, and then click Install.)? Also, I definitely don't have megabucks and I don't think it costs megabucks to partition a Mac, even if one has to purchase a new external HDD. --Bruce On Thu, Jul 21, 2011 at 5:04 PM, Dan dantear...@gmail.com wrote: At 4:04 PM -0400 7/21/2011, Bruce Rubin wrote: Why don't you partition your Mac and run both? Then what? Sit there waiting for your computer to reboot every time you want to switch to a different application? There are quite a few apps that just won't run under Lion. They're either ppc or just plain incompatible. Not everyone is floating in the megabucks, to the point they can afford to upgrade everything. So what do you do? You either ignore Lion. Or you go virtual... - Dan. -- - Psychoceramic Emeritus; South Jersey, USA, Earth. -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-**list.shtmlhttp://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtmland our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/**lists/netiquette.shtmlhttp://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/** group/g3-5-list http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Virtual Snow Leopard in Lion?
On Jul 21, 2011, at 2:50 PM, Bruce Rubin wrote: From what I've been reading the past few days, the Apple license doesn't allow doing that. Is that what the ... is for? Go read John Siracusa's magnificent review of 10.7 at ars technica http://arstechnica.com/apple/reviews/2011/07/mac-os-x-10-7.ars The new licensing in 10.7 explicitly allows you to run 10.7 and three virtualized copies on any Mac you own. What I don't know is whether this means you can run a virtual copy of 10.6. Current VMS allow you to virtualize OS X Server, and virtualizing OSX Client is possible (VirtualBox did it an early V4 beta, until they eliminated that capability at the request of Apple.) I would kill to be able to virtualize 10.5 and 10.6 on my 10.7 Mac; it would make support issues MUCH better, because we've got a lot of people who can't go higher. -- Bruce Johnson University of Arizona College of Pharmacy Information Technology Group Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Virtual Snow Leopard in Lion?
BJ, That was quite an article but I did find the part you were referencing: (iii) to install, use and run up to two (2) additional copies or instances of the Apple Software within virtual operating system environments on each Mac Computer you own or control that is already running the Apple Software. I agree that running VM's of the various OS's would be nice but I can live with different partitions also, especially when I don't have much CPU power. BTW, I'm still waiting for someone to answer my question: has anybody tried installing Rosetta AFTER they've installed 10.7 from the 10.6 installation DVD (Double-click the Optional Installs folder, and then double-click the Optional Installs package. Follow the onscreen instructions. Select the disk where you want to install Rosetta and click Continue. Select the checkbox next to Rosetta, click Continue, and then click Install.). --BR On Thu, Jul 21, 2011 at 7:09 PM, Bruce Johnson john...@pharmacy.arizona.edu wrote: On Jul 21, 2011, at 2:50 PM, Bruce Rubin wrote: From what I've been reading the past few days, the Apple license doesn't allow doing that. Is that what the ... is for? Go read John Siracusa's magnificent review of 10.7 at ars technica http://arstechnica.com/apple/reviews/2011/07/mac-os-x-10-7.ars The new licensing in 10.7 explicitly allows you to run 10.7 and three virtualized copies on any Mac you own. What I don't know is whether this means you can run a virtual copy of 10.6. Current VMS allow you to virtualize OS X Server, and virtualizing OSX Client is possible (VirtualBox did it an early V4 beta, until they eliminated that capability at the request of Apple.) I would kill to be able to virtualize 10.5 and 10.6 on my 10.7 Mac; it would make support issues MUCH better, because we've got a lot of people who can't go higher. -- Bruce Johnson University of Arizona College of Pharmacy Information Technology Group Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Virtual Snow Leopard in Lion?
That's strange. If I pay for new OSes, don't I still own the prior ones? The license says I need to run it on a Mac. Does Lion License say I give up the prior Snow Leopard? On Jul 21, 5:50 pm, Bruce Rubin centris...@gmail.com wrote: Dan, Or you go virtual... From what I've been reading the past few days, the Apple license doesn't allow doing that. Is that what the ... is for? -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Virtual Snow Leopard in Lion?
On Jul 21, 2011, at 6:01 PM, JoeTaxpayer wrote: That's strange. If I pay for new OSes, don't I still own the prior ones? The license says I need to run it on a Mac. Does Lion License say I give up the prior Snow Leopard? Different versions are governed by the license they come with. The Snow Leopard license does not allow virtualization. Lion does, but does it refer to 10.7 only? It's an open question, which will be answered in a practical fashion when and if the VM software devs update their software. I'll bet VirtualBox is first out of the gate for OS X virtualization, as they've already done it, albeit only briefly. If Apple is allowing any previous version now, they'll all offer it soon, as this will be a stopgap to supporting ROsetta. -- Bruce Johnson Wherever you go, there you are B. Banzai, PhD -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Virtual Snow Leopard in Lion?
On Jul 21, 2011, at 5:53 PM, Bruce Rubin wrote: BTW, I'm still waiting for someone to answer my question: has anybody tried installing Rosetta AFTER they've installed 10.7 from the 10.6 installation DVD (Double-click the Optional Installs folder, and then double-click the Optional Installs package. I would be flabbergasted if this worked. If it was that easy, Apple wouldn't have removed it. Contrary to popular opinion Apple does not screw over customers for the Jobsian lulz. Rosetta was killed because Rosetta was causing problems or didn't work anymore. This is sheer speculation, but I'll wager it's tied up with that ARC pseudo garbage collection stuff John was talking about when he got into the details of Objective C memory handling. This is REALLY low level stuff, and if Rosetta's got a lot of plain old C in it, it would have been VERY difficult to make it ARC clean. As a semi-related side note, ~/Library is now a hidden folder. Mac OSX Hints has a hint about turning that on and off. -- Bruce Johnson Wherever you go, there you are B. Banzai, PhD -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
