Re: [Audyssey] A Proposal for Game Developers
Ken, The only thing that makes for mastery of programming is doing it. A lot. I would argue that I've finally reached near mastery in the C programming language; I've only had to write a mere quarter million lines of code to do it. Regarding AI, Alter Aeon actually doesn't have any, and while I know fuzzy logic is often used for it, none of it is used in the game server. Instead, we use random number generators and add-on special procedures that can make creatures do special things. Random numbers are extremely useful, and my advice would be to become comfortable with using them for practically everything. In regard to people buying games, I would argue that it's because the conventional model of selling games as standalone packages is failing. Those packages can be traded, given away, and copied so easily that it's pretty much just not worthwhile. If you have a central server, it's a bit easier. I'd actually recommend giving away games for free to build up a reputation and to get a lot of feedback from people on how you can improve them. Your first handful of games probably won't be good enough to even give away; but after you really get settled in with your programming language, tools, and audio libraries, the quality will really improve. When a lot of people really like and play your games, try selling expansions to them. Dennis Towne Alter Aeon MUD http://www.alteraeon.com On Tue, Mar 27, 2012 at 11:03 PM, Ken kenwdow...@neo.rr.com wrote: I know that for me, it's not the lack of ideas, but rather the lack of the mastery of programming. I really wish I could get a look at a game like swamp and learn, for exmple, how to have the game incorporate map files and so on. Another problem I am having is with AI. I understand fuzzy logic and was using it way before I even knew about it, but programming AI isn't as simple as just thinking how it should behave and writing it down, you've got to code in such a way that it does what it's supposed to. Finally, my last barrier is that no one buys my games. I thought Phrase Madness would be a big success, yet it's only seen five buyers. To me, the ability not only to make new and funny phrases, but also to be able to comment on them and upload those comments made the game unique, as well as the fact that it could be played on a windows mobile device, but nobody was all that interested. Oh well, maybe I'll have better luck with Space Attack--if I ever getting around to finishing it lol. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] A Proposal for Game Developers
Hi Ken, Actually, Empire Strikes Back dealt with the battle of Hoth. You piloted a snow speeder around the screen while Imperial At-At's attempted to destroy the shield generator. When the shield generator was destroyed or you lost all your lives the game was over. Is that what you were talking about when you mentioned ships and bases? Cheers! On 3/27/2012 7:12 PM, Ken wrote: Don't forget about my favorite mode i Combat, rickochet mode. I used to love that. Another great game for the 2600 was the empire Strikes back game--I think that's the one it was. You're flying to the right or left, and have to take out enemy ships with multiple blasts. You have to be level with the ships to hit them. Then, when the ship gets low on energy you have to get it over a base and stop all horizontal movements, then drop down and land. Every now and then, the theme song plays, you get an extra force bost, and become indestructible. That was my favorite 2600 game. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] A Proposal for Game Developers
Hi Clement, Yeah, I know what you mean by lack of tactics. Which is really one of the major points I want to raise. While I am not really a fan of Street Fighter, Mortal Kombat, Marvel vs Capcom, etc I am well aware of the degree of artificial intelligence and skill level required to play those games. Most audio games sadly don't match it. As to the idea of using beeps to indicate if an enemy is above or below you I don't know. The problem with the beep idea is that its fine for a sci-fi setting where you can work it into the storyline by having a heads up display, threat radar, laser sight, whatever but totally out of place in an ancient setting. Obviously, a knight, warrior,paladin, wizard, whatever wouldn't hear beeps if an enemy is above or below. So a more realistic or natural sound should be used instead. For example, if I get around to completing the 3d FPS version of my Tomb Hunter games I want to use slight wind sounds to indicate doors and passages. It only makes sense if passing a doorway to here a deep windy sound to indicate a room or corridor is off to your left or right. It would not make sense for the doors to begin beeping like mad unless Angela has some sort of equipment to locate doors and passages. Even then I think the wind sounds are better because it blends nicely into the background ambiance. Another case is ledges. As you probably know in MOTA I used dripping water to indicate where certain ledges were. A high pitched drip indicated a ledge was above you, and a low pitched drip indicated a ledge was below you. As you know that not only gave the player the information he/she needed, but also fit into the background ambiance too. Cheers! On 3/27/2012 10:51 PM, Clement Chou wrote: Well it'd definitely be good to see that in the near future. That's one thing that's always frustrated me about audio games... no tactics. True Judgement Day and others sometimes have you needing to make split decisions... do I make quick work of this incoming helicopter? Or do I go after the enemy that will disable my attacks when they land because they're so close to landing? But to me, that's barely scratching the surface... which is why I put so much emphasis on developing an audio one on one fighting game. If made well, I could see it getting competetive, tournaments behing held online, etc. But I think right now the problem is that most developers can't think of how to make attacks sound different. In my image, because kicks often involve larger motions than a punch, the swish I would use for a roundhouse would be, say, much larger and more dramatic than a short jab. But I don't think we have to come up with a million ways to block... even a simple high block or low block like every fighting games have would suffice. But I think we're so afraid to tap into undiscovered territory we keep seeing the same few ideas over and over again. Even in a 3d shooter, I could see many ways to determine whether an enemy was shooting at you from above or below. I might be on a pathway with a dropoff to my left side and trees to my right. With enemies shooting from above I would probably say have a beep play along with the shot, but have a lower beep as an indicator that an enemy is attacking from below. And a different set of beeps could be used for forward and rear attacks. Just some thoughts that've been floating in my head. I have many ways I could see an audio fighter or shooter being done, but don't have the skills or time to learn a programming language. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] A Proposal for Game Developers
I think you hit the nail on the head. And the beeps were just an example. I have other ideas too... if you were being shot at by a sniper with a bow from far away, I could think of several different sounds to signify whether an arrow was coming from above or below. The beeping I would use in a modern shooter, something like Call of Duty, Counterstrike, etc. But in an ancient setting, it would make more sense for different sounds of course, and all the ways you mentioned are things I like precisely for the reasons you gave about ambiance as well as just being more natural. I was simply thinking of modern shooters because aside from fighting games, that's probably my other favorite genre of games... that I wish we could play, along with action adventure games. - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2012 12:14 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] A Proposal for Game Developers Hi Clement, Yeah, I know what you mean by lack of tactics. Which is really one of the major points I want to raise. While I am not really a fan of Street Fighter, Mortal Kombat, Marvel vs Capcom, etc I am well aware of the degree of artificial intelligence and skill level required to play those games. Most audio games sadly don't match it. As to the idea of using beeps to indicate if an enemy is above or below you I don't know. The problem with the beep idea is that its fine for a sci-fi setting where you can work it into the storyline by having a heads up display, threat radar, laser sight, whatever but totally out of place in an ancient setting. Obviously, a knight, warrior,paladin, wizard, whatever wouldn't hear beeps if an enemy is above or below. So a more realistic or natural sound should be used instead. For example, if I get around to completing the 3d FPS version of my Tomb Hunter games I want to use slight wind sounds to indicate doors and passages. It only makes sense if passing a doorway to here a deep windy sound to indicate a room or corridor is off to your left or right. It would not make sense for the doors to begin beeping like mad unless Angela has some sort of equipment to locate doors and passages. Even then I think the wind sounds are better because it blends nicely into the background ambiance. Another case is ledges. As you probably know in MOTA I used dripping water to indicate where certain ledges were. A high pitched drip indicated a ledge was above you, and a low pitched drip indicated a ledge was below you. As you know that not only gave the player the information he/she needed, but also fit into the background ambiance too. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] A Proposal for Game Developers
The one I'm thinking of was the one where the adats march toward your base. - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2012 2:58 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] A Proposal for Game Developers Hi Ken, Actually, Empire Strikes Back dealt with the battle of Hoth. You piloted a snow speeder around the screen while Imperial At-At's attempted to destroy the shield generator. When the shield generator was destroyed or you lost all your lives the game was over. Is that what you were talking about when you mentioned ships and bases? Cheers! On 3/27/2012 7:12 PM, Ken wrote: Don't forget about my favorite mode i Combat, rickochet mode. I used to love that. Another great game for the 2600 was the empire Strikes back game--I think that's the one it was. You're flying to the right or left, and have to take out enemy ships with multiple blasts. You have to be level with the ships to hit them. Then, when the ship gets low on energy you have to get it over a base and stop all horizontal movements, then drop down and land. Every now and then, the theme song plays, you get an extra force bost, and become indestructible. That was my favorite 2600 game. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] A Proposal for Game Developers
Well, Ken. I think you hit the nail on the head. Its less a matter of blind gamers being able to come up with decent game ideas, but more a matter of converting those ideas into code. I think the reason for this is the lack of professional training. A lot of amateur developers download free instructional material from the web, perhaps look at some sample games, but they aren't getting step by step training in programming. For example, most programmers when they take college level courses start out with a class on pseudo code. The purpose of that class is to teach new programming students how to logically construct programs, to design an outline for his/her program, and to get an idea of how a program works. Once a new programmer learns the basic logic taught in those classes that programmer is ready to move onto the simpler languages like Python. Unfortunately, I think what happens is this essential step of learning the logic behind programming gets lost and some blind game developers try learning a language without fully understanding how it works. Therefore they aren't able to convert ideas into code. For example, you said you aren't sure how to create map files. So let's look at this step by step together and see if we can break it down into some very logical steps. Then, convert those steps into actual code. To begin with let's ask the question, what is a map? Well, a map is a flat 2 dimmentional image of the game world. You can think of it as a game board broken up into rows and colums of squares that need to be filled in with data. Basically, its just a table containing the location of rivers, mountains, walls, and whatever else you want to add to your map. So how do we create a 2d table in programming? Well, easy. We use a 2d array of course. Then, we fill that 2d array with specific information of where castles, maps, rivers, bridges, and everything else is by saving that information to the x and y location in the array. For example, if we have a 2d array called map and we want to add a castle to (5, 5) on that map in Python we could do something like map[5][5] = castle which just added castle to the center of our map. Now we want to add mountains to the north end of our map like this while i 10: map[i][9] = mountains i++ which would add several mountins to the top of our map. Once we have created that map we need to save it to a file. In most programming languages we would convert that array to binary, something called serialization, and then save it to a dat file. If we ever need to reload that map we deserialize it, convert binary data back into a string array like above, and then can use it for loading and saving different map files. This is essentially how all the level map files work in my game engine. It just deserializes an array of walls, doors, traps, whatever and I check the array to figure out where this or that is in relation to the player. its a very simple concept in practice, but unless someone has been taught to think of arrays in that way they might not ever think of using them for 2d maps. Of course, there is a more professional way of handling maps and that is by using collision detection. You create an object, asign it an x/y location, and then calculate the distance and direction to that object. If they intersect a collision occurs. However, as bounded boxes is beyond the scope of this message let's just say there are multiple ways to handle map files. Anyway, I think that is the problem most audio game developers have. They don't know the logic behind how this or that works so aren't able to convert ideas into working code. They might not even know the language as well as they think which would compound the issue. The key to being a good programmer is knowing the language very well and understanding how each and everything works in it. As to the issue of Fraze Madness. Unfortunately, that is another side effect of being an audio game developer. Some games do fairly well and others don't do well at all. Since we are dealing with a very small market the games that don't do well end up with only a handful of sales making it barely worth the effort of developing the game. You aren't the first person who tried to sell an audio game only to find it wasn't a commercial success. Cheers! On 3/27/2012 11:03 PM, Ken wrote: I know that for me, it's not the lack of ideas, but rather the lack of the mastery of programming. I really wish I could get a look at a game like swamp and learn, for exmple, how to have the game incorporate map files and so on. Another problem I am having is with AI. I understand fuzzy logic and was using it way before I even knew about it, but programming AI isn't as simple as just thinking how it should behave and writing it down, you've got to code in such a way that it does what it's supposed to. Finally, my last barrier is that no one buys my
Re: [Audyssey] A Proposal for Game Developers
Now that's a fact I didn't know about mota. The ledges always sounded the same to me (the only reason I got level two was guessing). - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Date sent: Wed, 28 Mar 2012 15:14:52 -0400 Subject: Re: [Audyssey] A Proposal for Game Developers Hi Clement, Yeah, I know what you mean by lack of tactics. Which is really one of the major points I want to raise. While I am not really a fan of Street Fighter, Mortal Kombat, Marvel vs Capcom, etc I am well aware of the degree of artificial intelligence and skill level required to play those games. Most audio games sadly don't match it. As to the idea of using beeps to indicate if an enemy is above or below you I don't know. The problem with the beep idea is that its fine for a sci-fi setting where you can work it into the storyline by having a heads up display, threat radar, laser sight, whatever but totally out of place in an ancient setting. Obviously, a knight, warrior,paladin, wizard, whatever wouldn't hear beeps if an enemy is above or below. So a more realistic or natural sound should be used instead. For example, if I get around to completing the 3d FPS version of my Tomb Hunter games I want to use slight wind sounds to indicate doors and passages. It only makes sense if passing a doorway to here a deep windy sound to indicate a room or corridor is off to your left or right. It would not make sense for the doors to begin beeping like mad unless Angela has some sort of equipment to locate doors and passages. Even then I think the wind sounds are better because it blends nicely into the background ambiance. Another case is ledges. As you probably know in MOTA I used dripping water to indicate where certain ledges were. A high pitched drip indicated a ledge was above you, and a low pitched drip indicated a ledge was below you. As you know that not only gave the player the information he/she needed, but also fit into the background ambiance too. Cheers! On 3/27/2012 10:51 PM, Clement Chou wrote: Well it'd definitely be good to see that in the near future. That's one thing that's always frustrated me about audio games... no tactics. True Judgement Day and others sometimes have you needing to make split decisions... do I make quick work of this incoming helicopter? Or do I go after the enemy that will disable my attacks when they land because they're so close to landing? But to me, that's barely scratching the surface... which is why I put so much emphasis on developing an audio one on one fighting game. If made well, I could see it getting competetive, tournaments behing held online, etc. But I think right now the problem is that most developers can't think of how to make attacks sound different. In my image, because kicks often involve larger motions than a punch, the swish I would use for a roundhouse would be, say, much larger and more dramatic than a short jab. But I don't think we have to come up with a million ways to block... even a simple high block or low block like every fighting games have would suffice. But I think we're so afraid to tap into undiscovered territory we keep seeing the same few ideas over and over again. Even in a 3d shooter, I could see many ways to determine whether an enemy was shooting at you from above or below. I might be on a pathway with a dropoff to my left side and trees to my right. With enemies shooting from above I would probably say have a beep play along with the shot, but have a lower beep as an indicator that an enemy is attacking from below. And a different set of beeps could be used for forward and rear attacks. Just some thoughts that've been floating in my head. I have many ways I could see an audio fighter or shooter being done, but don't have the skills or time to learn a programming language. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] A Proposal for Game Developers
Same, and there was nothing as I recall, about it in the manual -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of john Sent: 28 March 2012 22:03 To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] A Proposal for Game Developers Now that's a fact I didn't know about mota. The ledges always sounded the same to me (the only reason I got level two was guessing). - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Date sent: Wed, 28 Mar 2012 15:14:52 -0400 Subject: Re: [Audyssey] A Proposal for Game Developers Hi Clement, Yeah, I know what you mean by lack of tactics. Which is really one of the major points I want to raise. While I am not really a fan of Street Fighter, Mortal Kombat, Marvel vs Capcom, etc I am well aware of the degree of artificial intelligence and skill level required to play those games. Most audio games sadly don't match it. As to the idea of using beeps to indicate if an enemy is above or below you I don't know. The problem with the beep idea is that its fine for a sci-fi setting where you can work it into the storyline by having a heads up display, threat radar, laser sight, whatever but totally out of place in an ancient setting. Obviously, a knight, warrior,paladin, wizard, whatever wouldn't hear beeps if an enemy is above or below. So a more realistic or natural sound should be used instead. For example, if I get around to completing the 3d FPS version of my Tomb Hunter games I want to use slight wind sounds to indicate doors and passages. It only makes sense if passing a doorway to here a deep windy sound to indicate a room or corridor is off to your left or right. It would not make sense for the doors to begin beeping like mad unless Angela has some sort of equipment to locate doors and passages. Even then I think the wind sounds are better because it blends nicely into the background ambiance. Another case is ledges. As you probably know in MOTA I used dripping water to indicate where certain ledges were. A high pitched drip indicated a ledge was above you, and a low pitched drip indicated a ledge was below you. As you know that not only gave the player the information he/she needed, but also fit into the background ambiance too. Cheers! On 3/27/2012 10:51 PM, Clement Chou wrote: Well it'd definitely be good to see that in the near future. That's one thing that's always frustrated me about audio games... no tactics. True Judgement Day and others sometimes have you needing to make split decisions... do I make quick work of this incoming helicopter? Or do I go after the enemy that will disable my attacks when they land because they're so close to landing? But to me, that's barely scratching the surface... which is why I put so much emphasis on developing an audio one on one fighting game. If made well, I could see it getting competetive, tournaments behing held online, etc. But I think right now the problem is that most developers can't think of how to make attacks sound different. In my image, because kicks often involve larger motions than a punch, the swish I would use for a roundhouse would be, say, much larger and more dramatic than a short jab. But I don't think we have to come up with a million ways to block... even a simple high block or low block like every fighting games have would suffice. But I think we're so afraid to tap into undiscovered territory we keep seeing the same few ideas over and over again. Even in a 3d shooter, I could see many ways to determine whether an enemy was shooting at you from above or below. I might be on a pathway with a dropoff to my left side and trees to my right. With enemies shooting from above I would probably say have a beep play along with the shot, but have a lower beep as an indicator that an enemy is attacking from below. And a different set of beeps could be used for forward and rear attacks. Just some thoughts that've been floating in my head. I have many ways I could see an audio fighter or shooter being done, but don't have the skills or time to learn a programming language. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at
Re: [Audyssey] A Proposal for Game Developers
Hi, Thom. Its not just that, it's the fact that courses over here are impossible to find (good ones that don't involve physics and other theory that is unrelated in relevance to learning the language), and not just that. Its because people don't know our languages (like bgt) which would make it easier for us to learn if they could train us. I now I don't make sense in this message like I normally do, but I agree with your point as well as adding the above additions. -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Thomas Ward Sent: 28 March 2012 21:26 To: Gamers Discussion list; Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] A Proposal for Game Developers Well, Ken. I think you hit the nail on the head. Its less a matter of blind gamers being able to come up with decent game ideas, but more a matter of converting those ideas into code. I think the reason for this is the lack of professional training. A lot of amateur developers download free instructional material from the web, perhaps look at some sample games, but they aren't getting step by step training in programming. For example, most programmers when they take college level courses start out with a class on pseudo code. The purpose of that class is to teach new programming students how to logically construct programs, to design an outline for his/her program, and to get an idea of how a program works. Once a new programmer learns the basic logic taught in those classes that programmer is ready to move onto the simpler languages like Python. Unfortunately, I think what happens is this essential step of learning the logic behind programming gets lost and some blind game developers try learning a language without fully understanding how it works. Therefore they aren't able to convert ideas into code. For example, you said you aren't sure how to create map files. So let's look at this step by step together and see if we can break it down into some very logical steps. Then, convert those steps into actual code. To begin with let's ask the question, what is a map? Well, a map is a flat 2 dimmentional image of the game world. You can think of it as a game board broken up into rows and colums of squares that need to be filled in with data. Basically, its just a table containing the location of rivers, mountains, walls, and whatever else you want to add to your map. So how do we create a 2d table in programming? Well, easy. We use a 2d array of course. Then, we fill that 2d array with specific information of where castles, maps, rivers, bridges, and everything else is by saving that information to the x and y location in the array. For example, if we have a 2d array called map and we want to add a castle to (5, 5) on that map in Python we could do something like map[5][5] = castle which just added castle to the center of our map. Now we want to add mountains to the north end of our map like this while i 10: map[i][9] = mountains i++ which would add several mountins to the top of our map. Once we have created that map we need to save it to a file. In most programming languages we would convert that array to binary, something called serialization, and then save it to a dat file. If we ever need to reload that map we deserialize it, convert binary data back into a string array like above, and then can use it for loading and saving different map files. This is essentially how all the level map files work in my game engine. It just deserializes an array of walls, doors, traps, whatever and I check the array to figure out where this or that is in relation to the player. its a very simple concept in practice, but unless someone has been taught to think of arrays in that way they might not ever think of using them for 2d maps. Of course, there is a more professional way of handling maps and that is by using collision detection. You create an object, asign it an x/y location, and then calculate the distance and direction to that object. If they intersect a collision occurs. However, as bounded boxes is beyond the scope of this message let's just say there are multiple ways to handle map files. Anyway, I think that is the problem most audio game developers have. They don't know the logic behind how this or that works so aren't able to convert ideas into working code. They might not even know the language as well as they think which would compound the issue. The key to being a good programmer is knowing the language very well and understanding how each and everything works in it. As to the issue of Fraze Madness. Unfortunately, that is another side effect of being an audio game developer. Some games do fairly well and others don't do well at all. Since we are dealing with a very small market the games that don't do well end up with only a handful of sales making it barely worth the effort of developing the game. You aren't the first person who tried to sell
Re: [Audyssey] A Proposal for Game Developers
Hi Clement, Sure. That's perfectly understandable. I was merely just pointing out that the more creative we can get with making silent objects have sound and can fit it into the background ambiance the more enjoyable and realistic the game will be. For example, in Monkey Business James North used various birds to indicate the locations of rocks and trees. I have to admit that is a pretty clever way to work a tree or rock into the environment while also tying a sound to it. You might not be able to hear a rock is there but if a bird is sitting on it chirping then that's a sound queue worked into the background ambiance. On 3/28/2012 3:36 PM, Clement Chou wrote: I think you hit the nail on the head. And the beeps were just an example. I have other ideas too... if you were being shot at by a sniper with a bow from far away, I could think of several different sounds to signify whether an arrow was coming from above or below. The beeping I would use in a modern shooter, something like Call of Duty, Counterstrike, etc. But in an ancient setting, it would make more sense for different sounds of course, and all the ways you mentioned are things I like precisely for the reasons you gave about ambiance as well as just being more natural. I was simply thinking of modern shooters because aside from fighting games, that's probably my other favorite genre of games... that I wish we could play, along with action adventure games. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] A Proposal for Game Developers
Hi Ken, Ah, yes. One of my favorites. I've often thought about creating a retro remake of Empire Strikes Back and releasing it as open source. Cheers! On 3/28/2012 3:48 PM, Ken wrote: The one I'm thinking of was the one where the adats march toward your base. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] A Proposal for Game Developers
Hi John, That was a later edition to the game. I'm not sure if it made it into beta 22 or I added it afterward. I do know one of the later betas would increase and decrease the pitch of the ledge depending on if it was above or below your position. nThat is helpful when climbing up a rope and when the pitch is about medium is when you are at the same level as the ledge. On 3/28/2012 5:02 PM, john wrote: Now that's a fact I didn't know about mota. The ledges always sounded the same to me (the only reason I got level two was guessing). --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] A Proposal for Game Developers
Hi John, That was a later edition to the game. I'm not sure if it made it into beta 22 or I added it afterward. I do know one of the later betas would increase and decrease the pitch of the ledge depending on if it was above or below your position. nThat is helpful when climbing up a rope and when the pitch is about medium is when you are at the same level as the ledge. On 3/28/2012 5:02 PM, john wrote: Now that's a fact I didn't know about mota. The ledges always sounded the same to me (the only reason I got level two was guessing). --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Super Liam Max Payne
Hello Gamers, I recently heard of a game modifier with the title already mentioned. I tried clicking on some soapbox links, but all to no avail. I received 404 notifications that the file no longer existed. If someone could upload it, that would be excellent! Many thanks, Alfredo --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Super Liam Max Payne
Here ya go: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3272592/max_pain_mod_for_super_liam.exe Enjoy. -- Original Message -- From: Alfredo_The_Music_maker birdlover2...@hotmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Super Liam Max Payne Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2012 17:28:48 -0700 Hello Gamers, I recently heard of a game modifier with the title already mentioned. I tried clicking on some soapbox links, but all to no avail. I received 404 notifications that the file no longer existed. If someone could upload it, that would be excellent! Many thanks, Alfredo --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. The New #34;Skinny#34; Fruit How This Strange 62-Cent African Fruit Is Making Americans Skinny. http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3131/4f73ae498970127719f5st03vuc --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] A Proposal for Game Developers
Hi Ben, That's because it was a feature I was working on, and I never discussed it in the manual. Actually, I just checked beta 22 earlier and the feature isn't available in that release. Apparently I added it to the beta after that one was released because its in the version of the game I have now. On 3/28/2012 5:27 PM, Ben wrote: Same, and there was nothing as I recall, about it in the manual --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] A Proposal for Game Developers
Hi Ben, Well, you really don't need a course on physics to find out how to apply physics to games. There are game programming books on this very subject that gives developers the essentials on the application of physics in games plus common formulas to use. Many even give sample C source code to build on. For example, one such book comes to mind is called, Programming Math and Physics, by Wendi Staller. In that book she outlines all the common physics and math formulas that commonly come up in games, gives sample source code, and explains how the formulas work. So just because one can not take a college class on the subject doesn't mean we don't have equal access to the content. There are materials out there from websites like Safari that discuss the same course material. As for your comment about BGT that really has no bearing on the issue. BGT uses a language called Angelscript that is similar to the C programming language. If you have a basic understanding of C or C++ you can quite easily convert formulas and sample source code into BGT script because the code will be similar. Which really brings me to a point I've made often to new programmers. A lot of the documentation for programming, including most professional tutorials or guides, are aimed at a C or C++ programmer. That's because the C language is and has been the industry standard and is at least known to most programming students and professionals alike. It is the bedrock of programming regardless of what language or languages you or I might like. What this means is that in order to gain access to this wealth of information you and I have to at least be familiar with the C language in order to understand the source examples and then convert them into Visual Basic, Python, or any other language we so choose to use for the final project. In a case like BGT our task is actually simplified because BGT itself was based on a C standard. As a result the C source code examples in such books will be remotely familiar to you even if not everything is 100% exact. So we don't really need a book written specifically for BGT in that light. Just a basic understanding of how BGT and C are similar and different is enough. Cheers! On 3/28/2012 5:29 PM, Ben wrote: Hi, Thom. Its not just that, it's the fact that courses over here are impossible to find (good ones that don't involve physics and other theory that is unrelated in relevance to learning the language), and not just that. Its because people don't know our languages (like bgt) which would make it easier for us to learn if they could train us. I now I don't make sense in this message like I normally do, but I agree with your point as well as adding the above additions. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
