Re: [Audyssey] weii bowling cannot be playedindependentlybytheblind- Re: Accessable games for theplaystation three.
I guess I want more than a lot of other people when it comes to accessibility. It is true that blind people need sighted help when at the bowling center. Making sure that the rail is correctly set, telling us the remaining pins after the first ball, and so on. But if I know the result of each shot, I keep my own score on an abacus so that I know how I'm doing. When I was on a sanctioned league, I carried a 110 average. No bumpers were used. But I did my own aiming by using a bowling rail. I would want at least that much from any game I play. -- If guns kill people, writing implements cause grammatical and spelling errors! - Original Message - From: Clement Chou chou.clem...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Saturday, February 02, 2013 10:23 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] weii bowling cannot be playedindependentlybytheblind- Re: Accessable games for theplaystation three. Fair enough. But I guess the mindset I have is that when I play games, I almost always play them with other people... console games are just more fun when there are friends around. By that definition, Rock Band isn't accessible either, since you can't know how much you got for points and whatnot at the end of a song. But everyone has their own opinion, I guess. I just grew up on console games so it's never really mattered that much to me. I've always believed that if I could access most of the features of the game, then as far as I'm concerned it's accessible. Though to be quite honest, I never really liked sports games anyway... for things like bowling especially. I'd rather participate in the real thing, like going bowling for real. - Original Message - From: Charles Rivard wee1s...@fidnet.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Saturday, February 02, 2013 6:49 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] weii bowling cannot be playedindependentlybytheblind - Re: Accessable games for theplaystation three. To me, it does matter than I cannot know the remaining pins or accurately aim, and what's the point of bowling if you don't know your score frame by frame? While bowling is a sport that is more fun with a crowd, I enjoy it as a challenging game of skill, and if skill cannot be used, or the results cannot be known, I'm not satisfied with the game. To me, useable feedback is being able to accomplish the tasks given above with no sighted help. A good example of a good bowling game is Tenpin Alley from www.draconisentertainment.com It gives the feedback I need to enjoy a game of bowling, plus, others can play as well. Everyone is on equal ground when playing this bowling game. --- Shepherds are the best beasts, but Labs are a close second. - Original Message - From: Clement Chou chou.clem...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Saturday, February 02, 2013 4:48 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] weii bowling cannot be played independentlybytheblind - Re: Accessable games for the playstation three. I can do everything you said, other than hitting what's left and knowing what my final score is. But why would it matter... because I would only play it when friends were around, and would know final scores regardless? Again, I think it comes down to personal definitions of accessible... I am not trying to provoke an argument, only to discuss. I don't deal with the wii as much anymore, I find my ps3 much more accessible. And what is your definition of usable feedback? My definition is the clicking of the system as I move through the menus, and in the ps3's case, the fact that they don't wrap. My definition of usable feedback when playing bowling is judging crowd sounds, and when friends are around, what they tel me. So again, down to personal perspective. - Original Message - From: Charles Rivard wee1s...@fidnet.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Saturday, February 02, 2013 8:44 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] weii bowling cannot be played independently bytheblind - Re: Accessable games for the playstation three. Could you come into a room, turn the unit on, choose a game without hunting for it by trial and error, roll the first ball at the desired spot by knowing your target instead of randomly throwing it, know what pins remain (if any), use skill rather than guesswork to aim at them, and know your score after the first frame is over? Could you tell me your final score after the tenth frame had ended, all with no sighted help? If you can play the bowling game with no sighted help at all, knowing everything you need to in order to play the game completely through, then I would say that it is accessible, and be interested. If you cannot, then the game is not accessible. Console and game operation by guesswork does not, in any way, equate to doing so using accurate and useable feedback. If you don't get the feedback needed to operate and play the games, it's
Re: [Audyssey] weii bowling cannot be playedindependentlybytheblind- Re: Accessable games for theplaystation three.
Well if you're going to be good, at least in my experience, the first thing to do is to iliminate the bowling rail completely. But that's just me. -Original Message- From: Gamers [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Charles Rivard Sent: 03 February 2013 22:37 To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] weii bowling cannot be playedindependentlybytheblind- Re: Accessable games for theplaystation three. I guess I want more than a lot of other people when it comes to accessibility. It is true that blind people need sighted help when at the bowling center. Making sure that the rail is correctly set, telling us the remaining pins after the first ball, and so on. But if I know the result of each shot, I keep my own score on an abacus so that I know how I'm doing. When I was on a sanctioned league, I carried a 110 average. No bumpers were used. But I did my own aiming by using a bowling rail. I would want at least that much from any game I play. -- If guns kill people, writing implements cause grammatical and spelling errors! - Original Message - From: Clement Chou chou.clem...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Saturday, February 02, 2013 10:23 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] weii bowling cannot be playedindependentlybytheblind- Re: Accessable games for theplaystation three. Fair enough. But I guess the mindset I have is that when I play games, I almost always play them with other people... console games are just more fun when there are friends around. By that definition, Rock Band isn't accessible either, since you can't know how much you got for points and whatnot at the end of a song. But everyone has their own opinion, I guess. I just grew up on console games so it's never really mattered that much to me. I've always believed that if I could access most of the features of the game, then as far as I'm concerned it's accessible. Though to be quite honest, I never really liked sports games anyway... for things like bowling especially. I'd rather participate in the real thing, like going bowling for real. - Original Message - From: Charles Rivard wee1s...@fidnet.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Saturday, February 02, 2013 6:49 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] weii bowling cannot be playedindependentlybytheblind - Re: Accessable games for theplaystation three. To me, it does matter than I cannot know the remaining pins or accurately aim, and what's the point of bowling if you don't know your score frame by frame? While bowling is a sport that is more fun with a crowd, I enjoy it as a challenging game of skill, and if skill cannot be used, or the results cannot be known, I'm not satisfied with the game. To me, useable feedback is being able to accomplish the tasks given above with no sighted help. A good example of a good bowling game is Tenpin Alley from www.draconisentertainment.com It gives the feedback I need to enjoy a game of bowling, plus, others can play as well. Everyone is on equal ground when playing this bowling game. --- Shepherds are the best beasts, but Labs are a close second. - Original Message - From: Clement Chou chou.clem...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Saturday, February 02, 2013 4:48 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] weii bowling cannot be played independentlybytheblind - Re: Accessable games for the playstation three. I can do everything you said, other than hitting what's left and knowing what my final score is. But why would it matter... because I would only play it when friends were around, and would know final scores regardless? Again, I think it comes down to personal definitions of accessible... I am not trying to provoke an argument, only to discuss. I don't deal with the wii as much anymore, I find my ps3 much more accessible. And what is your definition of usable feedback? My definition is the clicking of the system as I move through the menus, and in the ps3's case, the fact that they don't wrap. My definition of usable feedback when playing bowling is judging crowd sounds, and when friends are around, what they tel me. So again, down to personal perspective. - Original Message - From: Charles Rivard wee1s...@fidnet.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Saturday, February 02, 2013 8:44 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] weii bowling cannot be played independently bytheblind - Re: Accessable games for the playstation three. Could you come into a room, turn the unit on, choose a game without hunting for it by trial and error, roll the first ball at the desired spot by knowing your target instead of randomly throwing it, know what pins remain (if any), use skill rather than guesswork to aim at them, and know your score after the first frame is over? Could you tell me your final score after the tenth frame had ended, all with no sighted
Re: [Audyssey] weii bowling cannot be playedindependentlybytheblind - Re: Accessable games for theplaystation three.
Fair enough. But I guess the mindset I have is that when I play games, I almost always play them with other people... console games are just more fun when there are friends around. By that definition, Rock Band isn't accessible either, since you can't know how much you got for points and whatnot at the end of a song. But everyone has their own opinion, I guess. I just grew up on console games so it's never really mattered that much to me. I've always believed that if I could access most of the features of the game, then as far as I'm concerned it's accessible. Though to be quite honest, I never really liked sports games anyway... for things like bowling especially. I'd rather participate in the real thing, like going bowling for real. - Original Message - From: Charles Rivard wee1s...@fidnet.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Saturday, February 02, 2013 6:49 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] weii bowling cannot be playedindependentlybytheblind - Re: Accessable games for theplaystation three. To me, it does matter than I cannot know the remaining pins or accurately aim, and what's the point of bowling if you don't know your score frame by frame? While bowling is a sport that is more fun with a crowd, I enjoy it as a challenging game of skill, and if skill cannot be used, or the results cannot be known, I'm not satisfied with the game. To me, useable feedback is being able to accomplish the tasks given above with no sighted help. A good example of a good bowling game is Tenpin Alley from www.draconisentertainment.com It gives the feedback I need to enjoy a game of bowling, plus, others can play as well. Everyone is on equal ground when playing this bowling game. --- Shepherds are the best beasts, but Labs are a close second. - Original Message - From: Clement Chou chou.clem...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Saturday, February 02, 2013 4:48 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] weii bowling cannot be played independentlybytheblind - Re: Accessable games for the playstation three. I can do everything you said, other than hitting what's left and knowing what my final score is. But why would it matter... because I would only play it when friends were around, and would know final scores regardless? Again, I think it comes down to personal definitions of accessible... I am not trying to provoke an argument, only to discuss. I don't deal with the wii as much anymore, I find my ps3 much more accessible. And what is your definition of usable feedback? My definition is the clicking of the system as I move through the menus, and in the ps3's case, the fact that they don't wrap. My definition of usable feedback when playing bowling is judging crowd sounds, and when friends are around, what they tel me. So again, down to personal perspective. - Original Message - From: Charles Rivard wee1s...@fidnet.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Saturday, February 02, 2013 8:44 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] weii bowling cannot be played independently bytheblind - Re: Accessable games for the playstation three. Could you come into a room, turn the unit on, choose a game without hunting for it by trial and error, roll the first ball at the desired spot by knowing your target instead of randomly throwing it, know what pins remain (if any), use skill rather than guesswork to aim at them, and know your score after the first frame is over? Could you tell me your final score after the tenth frame had ended, all with no sighted help? If you can play the bowling game with no sighted help at all, knowing everything you need to in order to play the game completely through, then I would say that it is accessible, and be interested. If you cannot, then the game is not accessible. Console and game operation by guesswork does not, in any way, equate to doing so using accurate and useable feedback. If you don't get the feedback needed to operate and play the games, it's not accessible. In a sense, it would be like operating your computer without a screen reader if you are totally blind. You could conceivably do it by guessing at your results as you type. You could go through the correct motions such as typing what you need to, but did it work? Without the necessary feedback, you don't know. -- If guns kill people, writing implements cause grammatical and spelling errors! - Original Message - From: Ian McNamara ianmcnamar...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Saturday, February 02, 2013 2:21 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] weii bowling cannot be played independently by theblind - Re: Accessable games for the playstation three. Exactly On our whiee when we had it I had the highest score on the bowling on our console and no one could break it including sighted people. Ian McNamara --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave
