Re: [COMMITTED] Remove obsolete Solaris 11.3 support
Hi Peter, On Fri, 2024-05-10 at 12:07 +0100, Peter Tribble wrote: > Tribblix is built from the last commit that worked (November 2021), with any > relevant changes > since cherry-picked on top. So in terms of timeline Tribblix is contemporary > with 11.4, with > hardware support matching the original Solaris 11 release. Thanks, good to know! And thanks a lot for your efforts! > But we're well into the second decade since the fork, so there's enough > divergence that illumos > and Solaris are really different, even if some of what you see looks very > similar. > > (And illumos on SPARC uses gcc4 to build the kernel [!], although > applications on Tribblix use gcc7. > Given the target market, having the latest and greatest toolchains isn't the > highest priority.) Well, at some point you will run into code that won't build with that old toolchain anymore. Adrian -- .''`. John Paul Adrian Glaubitz : :' : Debian Developer `. `' Physicist `-GPG: 62FF 8A75 84E0 2956 9546 0006 7426 3B37 F5B5 F913
Re: [COMMITTED] Remove obsolete Solaris 11.3 support
Hi Jan,
> On Friday 2024-05-10 15:59, Rainer Orth wrote:
>>Stuff Received writes:
>>
>>> On 2024-05-10 07:44, Rainer Orth wrote (in part):
>>>
Besides, if John had ever tried to build either GCC 13 or 14 on Solaris
11.3, gcc/configure would have told him about the obsoletion in no
uncertain terms.
>>>
>>> No, the option --enable-obsolete has allowed me to build on my T2000
>>> running Solaris 11.3 until recently. (I just built GCC 14.1.0 on said
>>> machine.)
>>
>>of course, but with default options you get a message indicating the
>>obsoletion:
>>
>> echo "*** Configuration ${target}${target_min} is obsolete." >&2
>> echo "*** Specify --enable-obsolete to build it anyway." >&2
>> echo "*** Support will be REMOVED in the next major release of GCC," >&2
>> echo "*** unless a maintainer comes forward." >&2
>>
>>So nobody can say they didn't know about the obsoletion.
>
> I can. With my distro hat on, I can tell you that, when rpmbuild/dpkg-build*
> completes with exit status 0, there certainly is much reduced incentive to go
> looking at the build log.
but without --enable-obsolete (which is off by default), the build will
abort with exit 1 on an obsolete target. This simply cannot be
overlooked.
Rainer
--
-
Rainer Orth, Center for Biotechnology, Bielefeld University
Re: [COMMITTED] Remove obsolete Solaris 11.3 support
On Friday 2024-05-10 15:59, Rainer Orth wrote:
>Stuff Received writes:
>
>> On 2024-05-10 07:44, Rainer Orth wrote (in part):
>>
>>> Besides, if John had ever tried to build either GCC 13 or 14 on Solaris
>>> 11.3, gcc/configure would have told him about the obsoletion in no
>>> uncertain terms.
>>
>> No, the option --enable-obsolete has allowed me to build on my T2000
>> running Solaris 11.3 until recently. (I just built GCC 14.1.0 on said
>> machine.)
>
>of course, but with default options you get a message indicating the
>obsoletion:
>
> echo "*** Configuration ${target}${target_min} is obsolete." >&2
> echo "*** Specify --enable-obsolete to build it anyway." >&2
> echo "*** Support will be REMOVED in the next major release of GCC," >&2
> echo "*** unless a maintainer comes forward." >&2
>
>So nobody can say they didn't know about the obsoletion.
I can. With my distro hat on, I can tell you that, when rpmbuild/dpkg-build*
completes with exit status 0, there certainly is much reduced incentive to go
looking at the build log.
This is also why people have started cutting dependency autodetection
from configure scripts (and the like) and making packagers having to use
explicit --disable-thisandthat flags since about the start of the decade.
Re: [COMMITTED] Remove obsolete Solaris 11.3 support
Stuff Received writes:
> On 2024-05-10 07:44, Rainer Orth wrote (in part):
>
>> Besides, if John had ever tried to build either GCC 13 or 14 on Solaris
>> 11.3, gcc/configure would have told him about the obsoletion in no
>> uncertain terms.
>
> No, the option --enable-obsolete has allowed me to build on my T2000
> running Solaris 11.3 until recently. (I just built GCC 14.1.0 on said
> machine.)
of course, but with default options you get a message indicating the
obsoletion:
echo "*** Configuration ${target}${target_min} is obsolete." >&2
echo "*** Specify --enable-obsolete to build it anyway." >&2
echo "*** Support will be REMOVED in the next major release of GCC," >&2
echo "*** unless a maintainer comes forward." >&2
So nobody can say they didn't know about the obsoletion.
Rainer
--
-
Rainer Orth, Center for Biotechnology, Bielefeld University
Re: [COMMITTED] Remove obsolete Solaris 11.3 support
Greetings, Rainer. On 2024-05-10 07:44, Rainer Orth wrote (in part): Besides, if John had ever tried to build either GCC 13 or 14 on Solaris 11.3, gcc/configure would have told him about the obsoletion in no uncertain terms. No, the option --enable-obsolete has allowed me to build on my T2000 running Solaris 11.3 until recently. (I just built GCC 14.1.0 on said machine.) S.
Re: [COMMITTED] Remove obsolete Solaris 11.3 support
Hi Adrian, >> > While Oracle does no longer provide feature updates to Solaris 11.3, there >> > is still LTSS security support so that users still receive security updates >> > so that their systems are continued to be protected against >> > vulnerabilities. >> >> The Solaris 11.3 ESUs (Extended Support Updates) are available at a >> premium only, and just contain the bare minimum of security updates, >> often 6 to 9 month in between. > > That's not an argument for throwing away hardware that still works perfectly > fine and that still has some users. who talks about throwing away the hardware: just keep it running with the latest available OS and GCC and be done with it. You still refused to explain what's the *need* for GCC > 14 on Solaris 11.3. Nice to have maybe, but crucial? >> > I think Solaris 11.3 support should be kept since the resulting code >> > removal >> > is not that large that it would justify dropping support for such a large >> > userbase. >> >> Do you have any indication on the size of the userbase? I seriously >> doubt it's large beyond some hobbyists that keep the old hardware >> running. > > I don't have the exact numbers, no. But I know there are many users out there > with pre-11.4 hardware that they still use. As you may know, there are no > 11.4 SPARC desktop systems and most 11.4-capable hardware is usually very > expensive. Sure, and they are free to to so. I've been running Solaris/SPARC desktops for a long time myself, like an Ultra 1 or a Blade 1500. However, once OS support was gone, I stopped and moved on. >> You also seem to forget that my GCC (and LLVM) Solaris support work is >> purely voluntary, done in my spare time. > > Not sure what makes you think so. I'm perfectly aware of the fact that lots of > people do this work in their spare time as this applies to me as well. > > I'm not getting paid for my Debian work, my kernel maintenance and all the > other > stuff that I'm doing either. That doesn't mean users are not allowed to ask me > questions or send me comments about my work. Who talks about being allowed? But you spend your time on your Debian/sparc64 work as you see fit, and so do I. There's only so much time in a day, and sometime it's nice to have a private life, too. There's simply no time left with me for keeping S11.3 support going, so it stops. It's that simple. >> Keeping Solaris 11.3 support working would be much more than restoring >> the removal patch: >> >> * For each and every of my Solaris patches, I'd have to investigate if >> it works on 11.3 or needs adjustments and workarounds. >> >> * I'd also need to regularly test the result to keep things working. >> >> I honestly don't have the time or the energy to do this, nor the >> hardware required for testing Besides, I have too much on my plate >> already, and rather spend it on more beneficial work. > > Does Solaris support in GCC really change that often that the necessary tests > cannot be run by volunteers? I'd be happy to test changes for Solaris 11.3 > which can be installed inside an LDOM. Hardware is just one concern here, but the limiting factor is my time. No argument from you can increase that. >> Above all, I always wonder why people insist on running ancient hardware >> with an almost-unsupported OS, but require a bleeding edge version of >> GCC. What's wrong with continuing to use GCC 13 (or even 14, although I >> haven't tested that on Solaris 11.3) instead? > > You could also ask why people use operating systems other than Linux and > architectures other than x86_64. I don't think you will get a satisfactory > answer to that question. The question is who is doing the work. As long as there's someone who does, fine, if not then support for those OSes dies (I've had that for both IRIX and Tru64 Unix in the past, btw.). >> > Removing Solaris 11.3 support might make sense in the future when SPARC >> > support in Illumos has matured enough that people can switch over their >> > machines. >> >> As has been noted, SPARC is on its way out for Illumos. > > Which makes my point to keep Solaris 11.3 support even more valid. You can keep wishing, but I won't be doing the work. It's that simple. Rainer -- - Rainer Orth, Center for Biotechnology, Bielefeld University
Re: [COMMITTED] Remove obsolete Solaris 11.3 support
Hi John, > On Fri, 2024-05-10 at 12:14 +0200, Richard Biener wrote: >> > Because I wasn't subscribed to gcc-patches and I'm also only subscribed now >> > without receiving messages due to the large message volume on this list. >> >> https://gcc.gnu.org/gcc-13/changes.html >> >> > The problem with announcements on developer mailing lists is usually >> > that they >> > usually don't reach any users. I was made aware of this change only when I >> > checked about the recent changes to GCC Git. >> >> Where do you expect such announcement then? > > That's a difficult question, to be honest. From a user perspective, it's hard > to > track these upstream announcements. I would argue that most users don't follow > all such changes in the upstream projects they are using and, to be honest, > I really > wouldn't have expected that Solaris 11.3 would be considered obsolete. users don't have to follow such announcements at all unless they build GCC from source. And those that do better should. As I mentioned, if they try, they'll get the info from configure anyway. > If it had been for Solaris 7, 8 or 9, I would totally understand. But even > Solaris 10 > is something that Oracle still supports [1]. Right, and you pay an arm and a leg for that. Yet, Solaris 10 support was removed from GCC 10 back in 2019 without much fuss. Rainer -- - Rainer Orth, Center for Biotechnology, Bielefeld University
Re: [COMMITTED] Remove obsolete Solaris 11.3 support
Hi Richard, > On Fri, May 10, 2024 at 10:54 AM John Paul Adrian Glaubitz > wrote: >> >> Hello Rainer, >> >> On Fri, 2024-05-10 at 10:20 +0200, Rainer Orth wrote: >> > > > Support for Solaris 11.3 had already been obsoleted in GCC 13. >> > > > However, >> > > > since the only Solaris system in the cfarm was running 11.3, I've kept >> > > > it in tree until now when both Solaris 11.4/SPARC and x86 systems have >> > > > been added. >> > > > >> > > > This patch actually removes the Solaris 11.3 support. >> > > >> > > I'm not sure I like this change since Solaris 11.3 is the last version of >> > > Solaris supported by a large number of SPARC systems. >> > > >> > > Oracle unfortunately raised the hardware baseline with Solaris 11.4 such >> > > that every system older than the SPARC T4 is no longer supported by 11.4 >> > > while 11.3 still runs perfectly fine on these machines. >> > >> > I wonder why you didn't raise your concerns 1 1/2 years ago when I >> > announced the obsoletion of Solaris 11.3 support? >> >> Because I wasn't subscribed to gcc-patches and I'm also only subscribed now >> without receiving messages due to the large message volume on this list. > > https://gcc.gnu.org/gcc-13/changes.html exactly, and the announcement also went to the main gcc list: https://gcc.gnu.org/pipermail/gcc/2022-December/240322.html No need to follow gcc-patches at all. Besides, if John had ever tried to build either GCC 13 or 14 on Solaris 11.3, gcc/configure would have told him about the obsoletion in no uncertain terms. Rainer -- - Rainer Orth, Center for Biotechnology, Bielefeld University
Re: [COMMITTED] Remove obsolete Solaris 11.3 support
On Fri, May 10, 2024 at 4:29 AM j...@pawlicker.com j...@pawlicker.com < j...@pawlicker.com> wrote: > The problem with illumos on SPARC is; illumos is also removing SPARC > support piece by piece, especially as it gets in the way of what they want > to do with the OS on x86-64 machines (which is what everyone in that > community doing the main development uses). This was due to the lack of > having a build machine and the high cost of used hardware. > https://github.com/illumos/ipd/blob/master/ipd/0019/README.md > https://www.illumos.org/issues/15563 > Support for SPARC in illumos was removed long ago; the actual cleanup is currently opportunistic. > Only one distro (Tribblix) still supports SPARC and I have no idea if it's > using a fork or older version of the illumos kernel. It's also the only > illumos distro that people with SPARC systems run because it's the only > actively maintained distro for SPARC. > Tribblix is built from the last commit that worked (November 2021), with any relevant changes since cherry-picked on top. So in terms of timeline Tribblix is contemporary with 11.4, with hardware support matching the original Solaris 11 release. But we're well into the second decade since the fork, so there's enough divergence that illumos and Solaris are really different, even if some of what you see looks very similar. (And illumos on SPARC uses gcc4 to build the kernel [!], although applications on Tribblix use gcc7. Given the target market, having the latest and greatest toolchains isn't the highest priority.) > Jake > > On 05/09/2024 2:31 AM EDT John Paul Adrian Glaubitz < > glaub...@physik.fu-berlin.de> wrote: > > > > > > Hello Rainer, > > > > > Support for Solaris 11.3 had already been obsoleted in GCC 13. > However, > > > since the only Solaris system in the cfarm was running 11.3, I've kept > > > it in tree until now when both Solaris 11.4/SPARC and x86 systems have > > > been added. > > > > > > This patch actually removes the Solaris 11.3 support. > > > > I'm not sure I like this change since Solaris 11.3 is the last version of > > Solaris supported by a large number of SPARC systems. > > > > Oracle unfortunately raised the hardware baseline with Solaris 11.4 such > > that every system older than the SPARC T4 is no longer supported by 11.4 > > while 11.3 still runs perfectly fine on these machines. > > > > While Oracle does no longer provide feature updates to Solaris 11.3, > there > > is still LTSS security support so that users still receive security > updates > > so that their systems are continued to be protected against > vulnerabilities. > > > > I think Solaris 11.3 support should be kept since the resulting code > removal > > is not that large that it would justify dropping support for such a large > > userbase. > > > > Removing Solaris 11.3 support might make sense in the future when SPARC > > support in Illumos has matured enough that people can switch over their > > machines. > > > > Thanks, > > Adrian > > > > -- > > .''`. John Paul Adrian Glaubitz > > : :' : Debian Developer > > `. `' Physicist > > `-GPG: 62FF 8A75 84E0 2956 9546 0006 7426 3B37 F5B5 F913 > > -- -Peter Tribble http://www.petertribble.co.uk/ - http://ptribble.blogspot.com/
Re: [COMMITTED] Remove obsolete Solaris 11.3 support
On Fri, 2024-05-10 at 12:14 +0200, Richard Biener wrote: > > Because I wasn't subscribed to gcc-patches and I'm also only subscribed now > > without receiving messages due to the large message volume on this list. > > https://gcc.gnu.org/gcc-13/changes.html > > > The problem with announcements on developer mailing lists is usually that > > they > > usually don't reach any users. I was made aware of this change only when I > > checked about the recent changes to GCC Git. > > Where do you expect such announcement then? That's a difficult question, to be honest. From a user perspective, it's hard to track these upstream announcements. I would argue that most users don't follow all such changes in the upstream projects they are using and, to be honest, I really wouldn't have expected that Solaris 11.3 would be considered obsolete. If it had been for Solaris 7, 8 or 9, I would totally understand. But even Solaris 10 is something that Oracle still supports [1]. Adrian > [1] > https://blogs.oracle.com/support/post/extended-support-for-oracle-solaris-10-operating-system -- .''`. John Paul Adrian Glaubitz : :' : Debian Developer `. `' Physicist `-GPG: 62FF 8A75 84E0 2956 9546 0006 7426 3B37 F5B5 F913
Re: [COMMITTED] Remove obsolete Solaris 11.3 support
On Fri, May 10, 2024 at 10:54 AM John Paul Adrian Glaubitz wrote: > > Hello Rainer, > > On Fri, 2024-05-10 at 10:20 +0200, Rainer Orth wrote: > > > > Support for Solaris 11.3 had already been obsoleted in GCC 13. However, > > > > since the only Solaris system in the cfarm was running 11.3, I've kept > > > > it in tree until now when both Solaris 11.4/SPARC and x86 systems have > > > > been added. > > > > > > > > This patch actually removes the Solaris 11.3 support. > > > > > > I'm not sure I like this change since Solaris 11.3 is the last version of > > > Solaris supported by a large number of SPARC systems. > > > > > > Oracle unfortunately raised the hardware baseline with Solaris 11.4 such > > > that every system older than the SPARC T4 is no longer supported by 11.4 > > > while 11.3 still runs perfectly fine on these machines. > > > > I wonder why you didn't raise your concerns 1 1/2 years ago when I > > announced the obsoletion of Solaris 11.3 support? > > Because I wasn't subscribed to gcc-patches and I'm also only subscribed now > without receiving messages due to the large message volume on this list. https://gcc.gnu.org/gcc-13/changes.html > The problem with announcements on developer mailing lists is usually that they > usually don't reach any users. I was made aware of this change only when I > checked about the recent changes to GCC Git. Where do you expect such announcement then? Richard. > > > While Oracle does no longer provide feature updates to Solaris 11.3, there > > > is still LTSS security support so that users still receive security > > > updates > > > so that their systems are continued to be protected against > > > vulnerabilities. > > > > The Solaris 11.3 ESUs (Extended Support Updates) are available at a > > premium only, and just contain the bare minimum of security updates, > > often 6 to 9 month in between. > > That's not an argument for throwing away hardware that still works perfectly > fine and that still has some users. > > > > I think Solaris 11.3 support should be kept since the resulting code > > > removal > > > is not that large that it would justify dropping support for such a large > > > userbase. > > > > Do you have any indication on the size of the userbase? I seriously > > doubt it's large beyond some hobbyists that keep the old hardware > > running. > > I don't have the exact numbers, no. But I know there are many users out there > with pre-11.4 hardware that they still use. As you may know, there are no > 11.4 SPARC desktop systems and most 11.4-capable hardware is usually very > expensive. > > > You also seem to forget that my GCC (and LLVM) Solaris support work is > > purely voluntary, done in my spare time. > > Not sure what makes you think so. I'm perfectly aware of the fact that lots of > people do this work in their spare time as this applies to me as well. > > I'm not getting paid for my Debian work, my kernel maintenance and all the > other > stuff that I'm doing either. That doesn't mean users are not allowed to ask me > questions or send me comments about my work. > > > Keeping Solaris 11.3 support working would be much more than restoring > > the removal patch: > > > > * For each and every of my Solaris patches, I'd have to investigate if > > it works on 11.3 or needs adjustments and workarounds. > > > > * I'd also need to regularly test the result to keep things working. > > > > I honestly don't have the time or the energy to do this, nor the > > hardware required for testing Besides, I have too much on my plate > > already, and rather spend it on more beneficial work. > > Does Solaris support in GCC really change that often that the necessary tests > cannot be run by volunteers? I'd be happy to test changes for Solaris 11.3 > which can be installed inside an LDOM. > > > Above all, I always wonder why people insist on running ancient hardware > > with an almost-unsupported OS, but require a bleeding edge version of > > GCC. What's wrong with continuing to use GCC 13 (or even 14, although I > > haven't tested that on Solaris 11.3) instead? > > You could also ask why people use operating systems other than Linux and > architectures other than x86_64. I don't think you will get a satisfactory > answer to that question. > > > > Removing Solaris 11.3 support might make sense in the future when SPARC > > > support in Illumos has matured enough that people can switch over their > > > machines. > > > > As has been noted, SPARC is on its way out for Illumos. > > Which makes my point to keep Solaris 11.3 support even more valid. > > Adrian > > -- > .''`. John Paul Adrian Glaubitz > : :' : Debian Developer > `. `' Physicist > `-GPG: 62FF 8A75 84E0 2956 9546 0006 7426 3B37 F5B5 F913
Re: [COMMITTED] Remove obsolete Solaris 11.3 support
Hello Rainer, On Fri, 2024-05-10 at 10:20 +0200, Rainer Orth wrote: > > > Support for Solaris 11.3 had already been obsoleted in GCC 13. However, > > > since the only Solaris system in the cfarm was running 11.3, I've kept > > > it in tree until now when both Solaris 11.4/SPARC and x86 systems have > > > been added. > > > > > > This patch actually removes the Solaris 11.3 support. > > > > I'm not sure I like this change since Solaris 11.3 is the last version of > > Solaris supported by a large number of SPARC systems. > > > > Oracle unfortunately raised the hardware baseline with Solaris 11.4 such > > that every system older than the SPARC T4 is no longer supported by 11.4 > > while 11.3 still runs perfectly fine on these machines. > > I wonder why you didn't raise your concerns 1 1/2 years ago when I > announced the obsoletion of Solaris 11.3 support? Because I wasn't subscribed to gcc-patches and I'm also only subscribed now without receiving messages due to the large message volume on this list. The problem with announcements on developer mailing lists is usually that they usually don't reach any users. I was made aware of this change only when I checked about the recent changes to GCC Git. > > While Oracle does no longer provide feature updates to Solaris 11.3, there > > is still LTSS security support so that users still receive security updates > > so that their systems are continued to be protected against vulnerabilities. > > The Solaris 11.3 ESUs (Extended Support Updates) are available at a > premium only, and just contain the bare minimum of security updates, > often 6 to 9 month in between. That's not an argument for throwing away hardware that still works perfectly fine and that still has some users. > > I think Solaris 11.3 support should be kept since the resulting code removal > > is not that large that it would justify dropping support for such a large > > userbase. > > Do you have any indication on the size of the userbase? I seriously > doubt it's large beyond some hobbyists that keep the old hardware > running. I don't have the exact numbers, no. But I know there are many users out there with pre-11.4 hardware that they still use. As you may know, there are no 11.4 SPARC desktop systems and most 11.4-capable hardware is usually very expensive. > You also seem to forget that my GCC (and LLVM) Solaris support work is > purely voluntary, done in my spare time. Not sure what makes you think so. I'm perfectly aware of the fact that lots of people do this work in their spare time as this applies to me as well. I'm not getting paid for my Debian work, my kernel maintenance and all the other stuff that I'm doing either. That doesn't mean users are not allowed to ask me questions or send me comments about my work. > Keeping Solaris 11.3 support working would be much more than restoring > the removal patch: > > * For each and every of my Solaris patches, I'd have to investigate if > it works on 11.3 or needs adjustments and workarounds. > > * I'd also need to regularly test the result to keep things working. > > I honestly don't have the time or the energy to do this, nor the > hardware required for testing Besides, I have too much on my plate > already, and rather spend it on more beneficial work. Does Solaris support in GCC really change that often that the necessary tests cannot be run by volunteers? I'd be happy to test changes for Solaris 11.3 which can be installed inside an LDOM. > Above all, I always wonder why people insist on running ancient hardware > with an almost-unsupported OS, but require a bleeding edge version of > GCC. What's wrong with continuing to use GCC 13 (or even 14, although I > haven't tested that on Solaris 11.3) instead? You could also ask why people use operating systems other than Linux and architectures other than x86_64. I don't think you will get a satisfactory answer to that question. > > Removing Solaris 11.3 support might make sense in the future when SPARC > > support in Illumos has matured enough that people can switch over their > > machines. > > As has been noted, SPARC is on its way out for Illumos. Which makes my point to keep Solaris 11.3 support even more valid. Adrian -- .''`. John Paul Adrian Glaubitz : :' : Debian Developer `. `' Physicist `-GPG: 62FF 8A75 84E0 2956 9546 0006 7426 3B37 F5B5 F913
Re: [COMMITTED] Remove obsolete Solaris 11.3 support
Hi John, >> Support for Solaris 11.3 had already been obsoleted in GCC 13. However, >> since the only Solaris system in the cfarm was running 11.3, I've kept >> it in tree until now when both Solaris 11.4/SPARC and x86 systems have >> been added. >> >> This patch actually removes the Solaris 11.3 support. > > I'm not sure I like this change since Solaris 11.3 is the last version of > Solaris supported by a large number of SPARC systems. > > Oracle unfortunately raised the hardware baseline with Solaris 11.4 such > that every system older than the SPARC T4 is no longer supported by 11.4 > while 11.3 still runs perfectly fine on these machines. I wonder why you didn't raise your concerns 1 1/2 years ago when I announced the obsoletion of Solaris 11.3 support? > While Oracle does no longer provide feature updates to Solaris 11.3, there > is still LTSS security support so that users still receive security updates > so that their systems are continued to be protected against vulnerabilities. The Solaris 11.3 ESUs (Extended Support Updates) are available at a premium only, and just contain the bare minimum of security updates, often 6 to 9 month in between. > I think Solaris 11.3 support should be kept since the resulting code removal > is not that large that it would justify dropping support for such a large > userbase. Do you have any indication on the size of the userbase? I seriously doubt it's large beyond some hobbyists that keep the old hardware running. You also seem to forget that my GCC (and LLVM) Solaris support work is purely voluntary, done in my spare time. Keeping Solaris 11.3 support working would be much more than restoring the removal patch: * For each and every of my Solaris patches, I'd have to investigate if it works on 11.3 or needs adjustments and workarounds. * I'd also need to regularly test the result to keep things working. I honestly don't have the time or the energy to do this, nor the hardware required for testing Besides, I have too much on my plate already, and rather spend it on more beneficial work. Above all, I always wonder why people insist on running ancient hardware with an almost-unsupported OS, but require a bleeding edge version of GCC. What's wrong with continuing to use GCC 13 (or even 14, although I haven't tested that on Solaris 11.3) instead? > Removing Solaris 11.3 support might make sense in the future when SPARC > support in Illumos has matured enough that people can switch over their > machines. As has been noted, SPARC is on its way out for Illumos. Rainer -- - Rainer Orth, Center for Biotechnology, Bielefeld University
Re: [COMMITTED] Remove obsolete Solaris 11.3 support
The problem with illumos on SPARC is; illumos is also removing SPARC support piece by piece, especially as it gets in the way of what they want to do with the OS on x86-64 machines (which is what everyone in that community doing the main development uses). This was due to the lack of having a build machine and the high cost of used hardware. https://github.com/illumos/ipd/blob/master/ipd/0019/README.md https://www.illumos.org/issues/15563 Only one distro (Tribblix) still supports SPARC and I have no idea if it's using a fork or older version of the illumos kernel. It's also the only illumos distro that people with SPARC systems run because it's the only actively maintained distro for SPARC. Jake > On 05/09/2024 2:31 AM EDT John Paul Adrian Glaubitz > wrote: > > > Hello Rainer, > > > Support for Solaris 11.3 had already been obsoleted in GCC 13. However, > > since the only Solaris system in the cfarm was running 11.3, I've kept > > it in tree until now when both Solaris 11.4/SPARC and x86 systems have > > been added. > > > > This patch actually removes the Solaris 11.3 support. > > I'm not sure I like this change since Solaris 11.3 is the last version of > Solaris supported by a large number of SPARC systems. > > Oracle unfortunately raised the hardware baseline with Solaris 11.4 such > that every system older than the SPARC T4 is no longer supported by 11.4 > while 11.3 still runs perfectly fine on these machines. > > While Oracle does no longer provide feature updates to Solaris 11.3, there > is still LTSS security support so that users still receive security updates > so that their systems are continued to be protected against vulnerabilities. > > I think Solaris 11.3 support should be kept since the resulting code removal > is not that large that it would justify dropping support for such a large > userbase. > > Removing Solaris 11.3 support might make sense in the future when SPARC > support in Illumos has matured enough that people can switch over their > machines. > > Thanks, > Adrian > > -- > .''`. John Paul Adrian Glaubitz > : :' : Debian Developer > `. `' Physicist > `-GPG: 62FF 8A75 84E0 2956 9546 0006 7426 3B37 F5B5 F913
Re: [COMMITTED] Remove obsolete Solaris 11.3 support
Hello Rainer, > Support for Solaris 11.3 had already been obsoleted in GCC 13. However, > since the only Solaris system in the cfarm was running 11.3, I've kept > it in tree until now when both Solaris 11.4/SPARC and x86 systems have > been added. > > This patch actually removes the Solaris 11.3 support. I'm not sure I like this change since Solaris 11.3 is the last version of Solaris supported by a large number of SPARC systems. Oracle unfortunately raised the hardware baseline with Solaris 11.4 such that every system older than the SPARC T4 is no longer supported by 11.4 while 11.3 still runs perfectly fine on these machines. While Oracle does no longer provide feature updates to Solaris 11.3, there is still LTSS security support so that users still receive security updates so that their systems are continued to be protected against vulnerabilities. I think Solaris 11.3 support should be kept since the resulting code removal is not that large that it would justify dropping support for such a large userbase. Removing Solaris 11.3 support might make sense in the future when SPARC support in Illumos has matured enough that people can switch over their machines. Thanks, Adrian -- .''`. John Paul Adrian Glaubitz : :' : Debian Developer `. `' Physicist `-GPG: 62FF 8A75 84E0 2956 9546 0006 7426 3B37 F5B5 F913
Re: [COMMITTED] Remove obsolete Solaris 11.3 support
On Thu, May 2, 2024 at 7:06 AM Rainer Orth wrote: > > * libgo configure.ac and Makefile.am can now expect HAVE_STAT_TIMESPEC > to be true and libgo_cv_lib_setcontext_clobbers_tls doesn't apply any > longer. Any change would have to go upstream first and I don't know > about Ian's policy for keeping older versions supported. There's no reason for libgo to support a version that GCC itself doesn't support. If you send me a patch I can apply it. Thanks. Ian
[COMMITTED] Remove obsolete Solaris 11.3 support
Support for Solaris 11.3 had already been obsoleted in GCC 13. However,
since the only Solaris system in the cfarm was running 11.3, I've kept
it in tree until now when both Solaris 11.4/SPARC and x86 systems have
been added.
This patch actually removes the Solaris 11.3 support. Apart from
several minor simplifications, there are two more widespread changes:
* In Solaris 11.4, libsocket and libnsl were folded into libc, so
there's no longer a need to link them explictly.
* Since Solaris 11.4, Solaris includes all crts needed by gcc (like
crt1.o and gcrt1.o) with the base system. All workarounds to provide
fallbacks can thus go.
There is some additional potential for cleanup which I haven't included
in this patch for various reasons. I'm Cc'ing the respective
maintainers for guidance instead:
* libgo configure.ac and Makefile.am can now expect HAVE_STAT_TIMESPEC
to be true and libgo_cv_lib_setcontext_clobbers_tls doesn't apply any
longer. Any change would have to go upstream first and I don't know
about Ian's policy for keeping older versions supported.
* libphobos (libdruntime/gcc/sections/elf.d) has a workaround for the
lack of struct dl_phdr_info.dlpi_tls_modid. This was actually added
in Solaris 11.4 SRU 10 only, so one may or may not want to keep it.
* The same applies to libsanitizer (with a couple of additional
cleanups). This would have to go upstream anyway (maybe made
uncontroversial since LLVM itself never supported Solaris 11.3 itself,
only allowing some code in to accomodate GCC).
* libstdc++ acinclude.m4 has support for detecting
glibcxx_cv_math11_{fp,int}_overload. In Solaris 11.4, those should
always be true, so one may want to simplify the code accordingly.
Bootstrapped without regressions on i386-pc-solaris2.11 and
sparc-sun-solaris2.11 (as/ld, gas/ld, and gas/gld) as well as Solaris
11.3/x86 to ascertain that version is actually rejected.
Will commit shortly.
Rainer
--
-
Rainer Orth, Center for Biotechnology, Bielefeld University
2024-04-30 Rainer Orth
c++tools:
* configure.ac (ax_lib_socket_nsl.m4): Don't sinclude.
(AX_LIB_SOCKET_NSL): Don't call.
(NETLIBS): Remove.
* Makefile.in (NETLIBS): Remove.
(g++-mapper-server$(exeext)): Remove $(NETLIBS).
gcc:
* config.gcc: Move *-*-solaris2.11.[0-3]* to unsupported list.
<*-*-solaris2*> (default_use_cxa_atexit): Set unconditionally.
* configure.ac (AX_LIB_SOCKET_NSL): Don't call.
(NETLIBS): Remove.
(gcc_cv_aligned_shf_merge) :
Remove pre-Solaris 11.4 handling.
(hidden_linkonce) : Remove.
* Makefile.in (NETLIBS): Remove.
* configure, config.in, aclocal.m4: Regenerate.
* config/sol2.h: Don't check HAVE_SOLARIS_CRTS.
(STARTFILE_SPEC): Remove !HAVE_SOLARIS_CRTS case.
* config/i386/i386.cc (USE_HIDDEN_LINKONCE): Remove guard.
* doc/install.texi (Specific,i?86-*-solaris2*): Reference Solaris
11.4 only.
(Specific, *-*-solaris2*): Document Solaris 11.3 removal. Remove
11.3 references and caveats. Update for 11.4.
gcc/cp:
* Make-lang.in (cc1plus$(exeext)): Remove $(NETLIBS).
gcc/objcp:
* Make-lang.in (cc1objplus$(exeext)): Remove $(NETLIBS).
gcc/testsuite:
* lib/target-supports.exp (check_effective_target_pie): Always
enable on *-*-solaris2*.
libgcc:
* configure.ac <*-*-solaris2*> (libgcc_cv_solaris_crts): Remove.
* config.host <*-*-solaris2*>: Remove !libgcc_cv_solaris_crts
support.
* configure, config.in: Regenerate.
* config/sol2/gmon.c (internal_mcount) [!HAVE_SOLARIS_CRTS]: Remove.
* config/i386/sol2-c1.S, config/sparc/sol2-c1.S: Remove.
* config/sol2/t-sol2 (crt1.o, gcrt1.o): Remove.
libstdc++-v3:
* testsuite/lib/dg-options.exp (add_options_for_net_ts)
<*-*-solaris2*>: Don't link with -lsocket -lnsl.
# HG changeset patch
# Parent b4a42d2294706a4f32dd6c82bac8717bf0644696
Remove obsolete Solaris 11.3 support
diff --git a/c++tools/Makefile.in b/c++tools/Makefile.in
--- a/c++tools/Makefile.in
+++ b/c++tools/Makefile.in
@@ -35,7 +35,6 @@ CXXOPTS := $(CXXFLAGS) $(PICFLAG) -fno-e
LDFLAGS := @LDFLAGS@
exeext := @EXEEXT@
LIBIBERTY := ../libiberty/libiberty.a
-NETLIBS := @NETLIBS@
VERSION.O := ../gcc/version.o
all::
@@ -99,7 +98,7 @@ MAPPER.O := server.o resolver.o
CODYLIB = ../libcody/libcody.a
CXXINC += -I$(srcdir)/../libcody -I$(srcdir)/../include -I$(srcdir)/../gcc -I. -I../gcc
g++-mapper-server$(exeext): $(MAPPER.O) $(CODYLIB)
- +$(CXX) $(LDFLAGS) $(PICFLAG) $(LD_PICFLAG) -o $@ $^ $(LIBIBERTY) $(NETLIBS)
+ +$(CXX) $(LDFLAGS) $(PICFLAG) $(LD_PICFLAG) -o $@ $^ $(LIBIBERTY)
# copy to gcc dir so tests there can run
all::../gcc/g++-mapper-server$(exeext)
diff --git
