Re: [gdal-dev] USGS 3DEP (3D Elevation Program) - feet should be metres, how can I fix this?
Thanks Even,
looks like a good workaround for the moment. Hopefully, the USGS will update
their files accordingly.
Thanks Kirk for kicking this up. I'm sure it is not trivial to fix such an
issue for a national dataset.
Have a great day,Conrad
On Friday, March 22, 2024 at 04:57:03 AM EDT, Even Rouault
wrote:
Hi,
having looked at the file, I believe GDAL behaves correctly given the metadata
in the file. This is clearly a unit type attached to the Band, and it should be
corrected by the data producer to reflect what is really used in it
One way to correct it on your side is for example this little Python snippet
from osgeo import gdal
ds = gdal.Open('test.tif')
ds.GetRasterBand(1).SetUnitType('metre')
As the file is used in read-only mode, this will generate an auxiliary .aux.xml
side car file overriding the unit.
You can also directly override the wrong metadata inside the TIFF with
ds = gdal.OpenEx('test.tif', open_options=['IGNORE_COG_LAYOUT_BREAK=YES'])
ds.GetRasterBand(1).SetUnitType('metre')
The IGNORE_COG_LAYOUT_BREAK=YES open option is because modifying TIFF metadata
causes it to be rewritten at the end of the file, which "breaks" the COG
convention. But that's still a perfectly valid GeoTIFF file, and will not
change anything for local use of such file. You could reprocess that to a fully
compliant COG with gdal_translate -of COG
Regarding how that is used by gdalwarp, the doc enhancement at
https://github.com/OSGeo/gdal/pull/9527 captures my initial attempt at
answering your questions.
Even
Le 22/03/2024 à 01:16, Conrad Bielski a écrit :
Just realised I should have put you also in CC
Here is my response message again.
Thanks Even,
you are correct about the tag number (I sent the incorrrect one).
I have provided a sample tif and some other descriptions of the issue here:
bad_geotiff - Google Drive
|
|
| |
bad_geotiff - Google Drive
|
|
|
The three files there are the following: 1. A bad tiff (this is slightly
smaller; they are all pretty big). 2. A GDAL info dump (survey feet is almost
at the bottom) 3. A PDF with an explanation of the issue
thanks for your help. Conrad
On Thursday, March 21, 2024 at 04:49:57 PM EDT, Even Rouault
wrote:
Le 21/03/2024 à 21:45, Conrad Bielski via gdal-dev a écrit :
Hello GDALers,
I have a question about reading USGS 3DEP (3D Elevation Program) data. Inside
of this data, a GEOTIFF tag 42114 is provided which is causing problems with
datum shifts.
There's no such thing as a GEOTIFF tag 42114.
The closest tags are:
#define TIFFTAG_GDAL_METADATA 42112
#define TIFFTAG_GDAL_NODATA 42113
It would be helpuful if you could provide the file, or the result of a
"tiffdump -m 1000 the.tif" and "listgeo the.tif" on it.
And was the .tif.aux.xml provided with the TIFF, or computed by GDAL. Because
the information might come from it too.
So when I use GDAL to compute the datum shifts, the tag is read and interprets
that the DEM is showing elevation in 'feet' while the DEM is actually in
metres. The DEMs are in fact in meter elevations and meter UTM horizontal
coordinates. This is obviously erroneously integrated into the tag.
So my question is whether anyone has come across this issue and found a
solution? Is there a way to edit the offending tag so that it is correctly
interpreted as metres instead of feet? Other potential solutions so that GDAL
interprets the elevation correctly?
Thanks in advance for your help. I provide below the output of gdalinfo which
I hope could help with the offending info in bold.
Have a great day,
Conrad
Driver: GTiff/GeoTIFF
Files:I:\v3_us_3dep\asheville\ashevilleUSGS_1M_17_x34y392_NC_Phase5_2018_A18.tif
I:\v3_us_3dep\asheville\ashevilleUSGS_1M_17_x34y392_NC_Phase5_2018_A18.tif.aux.xml
Size is 10012, 10012
Coordinate System is:
PROJCRS["NAD83 / UTM zone 17N",
BASEGEOGCRS["NAD83",
DATUM["North American Datum 1983",
ELLIPSOID["GRS 1980",6378137,298.257222101,
LENGTHUNIT["metre",1]]],
PRIMEM["Greenwich",0,
ANGLEUNIT["degree",0.0174532925199433]],
ID["EPSG",4269]],
CONVERSION["UTM zone 17N",
METHOD["Transverse Mercator",
ID["EPSG",9807]],
PARAMETER["Latitude of natural origin",0,
ANGLEUNIT["degree",0.0174532925199433],
ID["EPSG",8801]],
PARAMETER["Longitude of natural origin",-81,
ANGLEUNIT["degree",0.0174532925199433],
ID["EPSG",8802]],
PARAMETER["Scale factor at natural origin",0.9996,
SCALEUNIT["unity",1],
ID["EPSG",8805]],
PARAMETER["False easting",50,
LENGTHUNIT["metre",1],
ID["EPSG",8806]],
PARAMETER["False northing",0,
LENGTHUNIT["metre",1],
Re: [gdal-dev] USGS 3DEP (3D Elevation Program) - feet should be metres, how can I fix this?
I put in a ticket to the USGS National Map help desk so they'll know it
needs to be fixed. I'm sure some USGS folks watch this forum too.
Kirk Waters, PhD
NOAA Office for Coastal Management
Applied Sciences Program
Phone: 843-284-6962 (email preferred)
coast.noaa.gov/digitalcoast
[he/him]
On Fri, Mar 22, 2024 at 4:57 AM Even Rouault via gdal-dev <
gdal-dev@lists.osgeo.org> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> having looked at the file, I believe GDAL behaves correctly given the
> metadata in the file. This is clearly a unit type attached to the Band, and
> it should be corrected by the data producer to reflect what is really used
> in it
>
> One way to correct it on your side is for example this little Python
> snippet
>
> from osgeo import gdal
> ds = gdal.Open('test.tif')
> ds.GetRasterBand(1).SetUnitType('metre')
>
> As the file is used in read-only mode, this will generate an auxiliary
> .aux.xml side car file overriding the unit.
>
> You can also directly override the wrong metadata inside the TIFF with
>
> ds = gdal.OpenEx('test.tif', open_options=['IGNORE_COG_LAYOUT_BREAK=YES'])
> ds.GetRasterBand(1).SetUnitType('metre')
>
> The IGNORE_COG_LAYOUT_BREAK=YES open option is because modifying TIFF
> metadata causes it to be rewritten at the end of the file, which "breaks"
> the COG convention. But that's still a perfectly valid GeoTIFF file, and
> will not change anything for local use of such file. You could reprocess
> that to a fully compliant COG with gdal_translate -of COG
>
> Regarding how that is used by gdalwarp, the doc enhancement at
> https://github.com/OSGeo/gdal/pull/9527 captures my initial attempt at
> answering your questions.
>
> Even
>
>
> Le 22/03/2024 à 01:16, Conrad Bielski a écrit :
>
> Just realised I should have put you also in CC
>
> Here is my response message again.
>
> Thanks Even,
>
> you are correct about the tag number (I sent the incorrrect one).
>
> I have provided a sample tif and some other descriptions of the issue here:
> bad_geotiff - Google Drive
>
>
> bad_geotiff - Google Drive
>
>
> The three files there are the following:
> 1. A bad tiff (this is slightly smaller; they are all pretty big).
> 2. A GDAL info dump (survey feet is almost at the bottom)
> 3. A PDF with an explanation of the issue
>
> thanks for your help.
> Conrad
>
>
> On Thursday, March 21, 2024 at 04:49:57 PM EDT, Even Rouault
> wrote:
>
>
>
> Le 21/03/2024 à 21:45, Conrad Bielski via gdal-dev a écrit :
>
> Hello GDALers,
>
> I have a question about reading USGS 3DEP (3D Elevation Program) data.
> Inside of this data, a GEOTIFF tag 42114 is provided which is causing
> problems with datum shifts.
>
> There's no such thing as a GEOTIFF tag 42114.
>
> The closest tags are:
>
> #define TIFFTAG_GDAL_METADATA 42112
> #define TIFFTAG_GDAL_NODATA 42113
>
> It would be helpuful if you could provide the file, or the result of a
> "tiffdump -m 1000 the.tif" and "listgeo the.tif" on it.
>
> And was the .tif.aux.xml provided with the TIFF, or computed by GDAL.
> Because the information might come from it too.
>
>
> So when I use GDAL to compute the datum shifts, the tag is read and
> interprets that the DEM is showing elevation in 'feet' while the DEM is
> actually in metres. The DEMs are in fact in meter elevations and meter UTM
> horizontal coordinates. This is obviously erroneously integrated into the
> tag.
>
> So my question is whether anyone has come across this issue and found a
> solution? Is there a way to edit the offending tag so that it is correctly
> interpreted as metres instead of feet? Other potential solutions so that
> GDAL interprets the elevation correctly?
>
> Thanks in advance for your help. I provide below the output of gdalinfo
> which I hope could help with the offending info in bold.
>
> Have a great day,
> Conrad
>
>
>
>
> Driver: GTiff/GeoTIFF
> Files:
> I:\v3_us_3dep\asheville\ashevilleUSGS_1M_17_x34y392_NC_Phase5_2018_A18.tif
>
>
> I:\v3_us_3dep\asheville\ashevilleUSGS_1M_17_x34y392_NC_Phase5_2018_A18.tif.aux.xml
> Size is 10012, 10012
> Coordinate System is:
> PROJCRS["NAD83 / UTM zone 17N",
> BASEGEOGCRS["NAD83",
> DATUM["North American Datum 1983",
> ELLIPSOID["GRS 1980",6378137,298.257222101,
> LENGTHUNIT["metre",1]]],
> PRIMEM["Greenwich",0,
> ANGLEUNIT["degree",0.0174532925199433]],
> ID["EPSG",4269]],
> CONVERSION["UTM zone 17N",
> METHOD["Transverse Mercator",
> ID["EPSG",9807]],
> PARAMETER["Latitude of natural origin",0,
> ANGLEUNIT["degree",0.0174532925199433],
> ID["EPSG",8801]],
> PARAMETER["Longitude of natural origin",-81,
> ANGLEUNIT["degree",0.0174532925199433],
> ID["EPSG",8802]],
> PARAMETER["Scale factor at natural origin",0.9996,
>
Re: [gdal-dev] USGS 3DEP (3D Elevation Program) - feet should be metres, how can I fix this?
Hi,
having looked at the file, I believe GDAL behaves correctly given the
metadata in the file. This is clearly a unit type attached to the Band,
and it should be corrected by the data producer to reflect what is
really used in it
One way to correct it on your side is for example this little Python snippet
from osgeo import gdal
ds = gdal.Open('test.tif')
ds.GetRasterBand(1).SetUnitType('metre')
As the file is used in read-only mode, this will generate an auxiliary
.aux.xml side car file overriding the unit.
You can also directly override the wrong metadata inside the TIFF with
ds = gdal.OpenEx('test.tif', open_options=['IGNORE_COG_LAYOUT_BREAK=YES'])
ds.GetRasterBand(1).SetUnitType('metre')
The IGNORE_COG_LAYOUT_BREAK=YES open option is because modifying TIFF
metadata causes it to be rewritten at the end of the file, which
"breaks" the COG convention. But that's still a perfectly valid GeoTIFF
file, and will not change anything for local use of such file. You could
reprocess that to a fully compliant COG with gdal_translate -of COG
Regarding how that is used by gdalwarp, the doc enhancement at
https://github.com/OSGeo/gdal/pull/9527 captures my initial attempt at
answering your questions.
Even
Le 22/03/2024 à 01:16, Conrad Bielski a écrit :
Just realised I should have put you also in CC
Here is my response message again.
Thanks Even,
you are correct about the tag number (I sent the incorrrect one).
I have provided a sample tif and some other descriptions of the issue
here:
bad_geotiff - Google Drive
bad_geotiff - Google Drive
The three files there are the following:
1. A bad tiff (this is slightly smaller; they are all pretty big).
2. A GDAL info dump (survey feet is almost at the bottom)
3. A PDF with an explanation of the issue
thanks for your help.
Conrad
On Thursday, March 21, 2024 at 04:49:57 PM EDT, Even Rouault
wrote:
Le 21/03/2024 à 21:45, Conrad Bielski via gdal-dev a écrit :
Hello GDALers,
I have a question about reading USGS 3DEP (3D Elevation Program) data.
Inside of this data, a GEOTIFF tag 42114 is provided which is causing
problems with datum shifts.
There's no such thing as a GEOTIFF tag 42114.
The closest tags are:
#define TIFFTAG_GDAL_METADATA 42112
#define TIFFTAG_GDAL_NODATA 42113
It would be helpuful if you could provide the file, or the result of a
"tiffdump -m 1000 the.tif" and "listgeo the.tif" on it.
And was the .tif.aux.xml provided with the TIFF, or computed by GDAL.
Because the information might come from it too.
So when I use GDAL to compute the datum shifts, the tag is read and
interprets that the DEM is showing elevation in 'feet' while the DEM
is actually in metres. The DEMs are in fact in meter elevations and
meter UTM horizontal coordinates. This is obviously erroneously
integrated into the tag.
So my question is whether anyone has come across this issue and found
a solution? Is there a way to edit the offending tag so that it is
correctly interpreted as metres instead of feet? Other potential
solutions so that GDAL interprets the elevation correctly?
Thanks in advance for your help. I provide below the output of
gdalinfo which I hope could help with the offending info in bold.
Have a great day,
Conrad
Driver: GTiff/GeoTIFF
Files:
I:\v3_us_3dep\asheville\ashevilleUSGS_1M_17_x34y392_NC_Phase5_2018_A18.tif
I:\v3_us_3dep\asheville\ashevilleUSGS_1M_17_x34y392_NC_Phase5_2018_A18.tif.aux.xml
Size is 10012, 10012
Coordinate System is:
PROJCRS["NAD83 / UTM zone 17N",
BASEGEOGCRS["NAD83",
DATUM["North American Datum 1983",
ELLIPSOID["GRS 1980",6378137,298.257222101,
LENGTHUNIT["metre",1]]],
PRIMEM["Greenwich",0,
ANGLEUNIT["degree",0.0174532925199433]],
ID["EPSG",4269]],
CONVERSION["UTM zone 17N",
METHOD["Transverse Mercator",
ID["EPSG",9807]],
PARAMETER["Latitude of natural origin",0,
ANGLEUNIT["degree",0.0174532925199433],
ID["EPSG",8801]],
PARAMETER["Longitude of natural origin",-81,
ANGLEUNIT["degree",0.0174532925199433],
ID["EPSG",8802]],
PARAMETER["Scale factor at natural origin",0.9996,
SCALEUNIT["unity",1],
ID["EPSG",8805]],
PARAMETER["False easting",50,
LENGTHUNIT["metre",1],
ID["EPSG",8806]],
PARAMETER["False northing",0,
LENGTHUNIT["metre",1],
ID["EPSG",8807]]],
CS[Cartesian,2],
AXIS["(E)",east,
ORDER[1],
LENGTHUNIT["metre",1]],
AXIS["(N)",north,
ORDER[2],
LENGTHUNIT["metre",1]],
USAGE[
SCOPE["Engineering survey, topographic mapping."],
AREA["North America - between 84°W and 78°W - onshore and
Re: [gdal-dev] USGS 3DEP (3D Elevation Program) - feet should be metres, how can I fix this?
Le 21/03/2024 à 21:45, Conrad Bielski via gdal-dev a écrit : Hello GDALers, I have a question about reading USGS 3DEP (3D Elevation Program) data. Inside of this data, a GEOTIFF tag 42114 is provided which is causing problems with datum shifts. There's no such thing as a GEOTIFF tag 42114. The closest tags are: #define TIFFTAG_GDAL_METADATA 42112 #define TIFFTAG_GDAL_NODATA 42113 It would be helpuful if you could provide the file, or the result of a "tiffdump -m 1000 the.tif" and "listgeo the.tif" on it. And was the .tif.aux.xml provided with the TIFF, or computed by GDAL. Because the information might come from it too. So when I use GDAL to compute the datum shifts, the tag is read and interprets that the DEM is showing elevation in 'feet' while the DEM is actually in metres. The DEMs are in fact in meter elevations and meter UTM horizontal coordinates. This is obviously erroneously integrated into the tag. So my question is whether anyone has come across this issue and found a solution? Is there a way to edit the offending tag so that it is correctly interpreted as metres instead of feet? Other potential solutions so that GDAL interprets the elevation correctly? Thanks in advance for your help. I provide below the output of gdalinfo which I hope could help with the offending info in bold. Have a great day, Conrad Driver: GTiff/GeoTIFF Files: I:\v3_us_3dep\asheville\ashevilleUSGS_1M_17_x34y392_NC_Phase5_2018_A18.tif I:\v3_us_3dep\asheville\ashevilleUSGS_1M_17_x34y392_NC_Phase5_2018_A18.tif.aux.xml Size is 10012, 10012 Coordinate System is: PROJCRS["NAD83 / UTM zone 17N", BASEGEOGCRS["NAD83", DATUM["North American Datum 1983", ELLIPSOID["GRS 1980",6378137,298.257222101, LENGTHUNIT["metre",1]]], PRIMEM["Greenwich",0, ANGLEUNIT["degree",0.0174532925199433]], ID["EPSG",4269]], CONVERSION["UTM zone 17N", METHOD["Transverse Mercator", ID["EPSG",9807]], PARAMETER["Latitude of natural origin",0, ANGLEUNIT["degree",0.0174532925199433], ID["EPSG",8801]], PARAMETER["Longitude of natural origin",-81, ANGLEUNIT["degree",0.0174532925199433], ID["EPSG",8802]], PARAMETER["Scale factor at natural origin",0.9996, SCALEUNIT["unity",1], ID["EPSG",8805]], PARAMETER["False easting",50, LENGTHUNIT["metre",1], ID["EPSG",8806]], PARAMETER["False northing",0, LENGTHUNIT["metre",1], ID["EPSG",8807]]], CS[Cartesian,2], AXIS["(E)",east, ORDER[1], LENGTHUNIT["metre",1]], AXIS["(N)",north, ORDER[2], LENGTHUNIT["metre",1]], USAGE[ SCOPE["Engineering survey, topographic mapping."], AREA["North America - between 84°W and 78°W - onshore and offshore. Canada - Nunavut; Ontario; Quebec. United States (USA) - Florida; Georgia; Kentucky; Maryland; Michigan; New York; North Carolina; Ohio; Pennsylvania; South Carolina; Tennessee; Virginia; West Virginia."], BBOX[23.81,-84,84,-78]], ID["EPSG",26917]] Data axis to CRS axis mapping: 1,2 Origin = (339993.58705157042,3920005.81591943651) Pixel Size = (1.000,-1.000) Metadata: AREA_OR_POINT=Area Image Structure Metadata: COMPRESSION=LZW INTERLEAVE=BAND LAYOUT=COG PREDICTOR=3 Corner Coordinates: Upper Left ( 339994.000, 3920006.000) ( 82d45'43.98"W, 35d24'38.21"N) Lower Left ( 339994.000, 3909994.000) ( 82d45'36.92"W, 35d19'13.36"N) Upper Right ( 350006.000, 3920006.000) ( 82d39' 7.17"W, 35d24'43.82"N) Lower Right ( 350006.000, 3909994.000) ( 82d39' 0.55"W, 35d19'18.95"N) Center ( 345000.000, 3915000.000) ( 82d42'22.15"W, 35d21'58.63"N) Band 1 Block=512x512 Type=Float32, ColorInterp=Gray Min=669.509 Max=1604.949 Minimum=669.509, Maximum=1604.949, Mean=988.295, StdDev=159.804 NoData Value=-99 Overviews: 5006x5006, 2503x2503, 1251x1251, 625x625, 312x312 *Unit Type: US survey foot* Metadata: STATISTICS_APPROXIMATE=YES STATISTICS_MAXIMUM=1604.9490966797 STATISTICS_MEAN=988.29463693706 STATISTICS_MINIMUM=669.50915527344 STATISTICS_STDDEV=159.80361228109 STATISTICS_VALID_PERCENT=100 ___ gdal-dev mailing list gdal-dev@lists.osgeo.org https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/gdal-dev -- http://www.spatialys.com My software is free, but my time generally not. ___ gdal-dev mailing list gdal-dev@lists.osgeo.org https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/gdal-dev
[gdal-dev] USGS 3DEP (3D Elevation Program) - feet should be metres, how can I fix this?
Hello GDALers, I have a question about reading USGS 3DEP (3D Elevation Program) data. Inside of this data, a GEOTIFF tag 42114 is provided which is causing problems with datum shifts. So when I use GDAL to compute the datum shifts, the tag is read and interprets that the DEM is showing elevation in 'feet' while the DEM is actually in metres. The DEMs are in fact in meter elevations and meter UTM horizontal coordinates. This is obviously erroneously integrated into the tag. So my question is whether anyone has come across this issue and found a solution? Is there a way to edit the offending tag so that it is correctly interpreted as metres instead of feet? Other potential solutions so that GDAL interprets the elevation correctly? Thanks in advance for your help. I provide below the output of gdalinfo which I hope could help with the offending info in bold. Have a great day, Conrad Driver: GTiff/GeoTIFF Files: I:\v3_us_3dep\asheville\ashevilleUSGS_1M_17_x34y392_NC_Phase5_2018_A18.tif I:\v3_us_3dep\asheville\ashevilleUSGS_1M_17_x34y392_NC_Phase5_2018_A18.tif.aux.xml Size is 10012, 10012 Coordinate System is: PROJCRS["NAD83 / UTM zone 17N", BASEGEOGCRS["NAD83", DATUM["North American Datum 1983", ELLIPSOID["GRS 1980",6378137,298.257222101, LENGTHUNIT["metre",1]]], PRIMEM["Greenwich",0, ANGLEUNIT["degree",0.0174532925199433]], ID["EPSG",4269]], CONVERSION["UTM zone 17N", METHOD["Transverse Mercator", ID["EPSG",9807]], PARAMETER["Latitude of natural origin",0, ANGLEUNIT["degree",0.0174532925199433], ID["EPSG",8801]], PARAMETER["Longitude of natural origin",-81, ANGLEUNIT["degree",0.0174532925199433], ID["EPSG",8802]], PARAMETER["Scale factor at natural origin",0.9996, SCALEUNIT["unity",1], ID["EPSG",8805]], PARAMETER["False easting",50, LENGTHUNIT["metre",1], ID["EPSG",8806]], PARAMETER["False northing",0, LENGTHUNIT["metre",1], ID["EPSG",8807]]], CS[Cartesian,2], AXIS["(E)",east, ORDER[1], LENGTHUNIT["metre",1]], AXIS["(N)",north, ORDER[2], LENGTHUNIT["metre",1]], USAGE[ SCOPE["Engineering survey, topographic mapping."], AREA["North America - between 84°W and 78°W - onshore and offshore. Canada - Nunavut; Ontario; Quebec. United States (USA) - Florida; Georgia; Kentucky; Maryland; Michigan; New York; North Carolina; Ohio; Pennsylvania; South Carolina; Tennessee; Virginia; West Virginia."], BBOX[23.81,-84,84,-78]], ID["EPSG",26917]] Data axis to CRS axis mapping: 1,2 Origin = (339993.58705157042,3920005.81591943651) Pixel Size = (1.000,-1.000) Metadata: AREA_OR_POINT=Area Image Structure Metadata: COMPRESSION=LZW INTERLEAVE=BAND LAYOUT=COG PREDICTOR=3 Corner Coordinates: Upper Left ( 339994.000, 3920006.000) ( 82d45'43.98"W, 35d24'38.21"N) Lower Left ( 339994.000, 3909994.000) ( 82d45'36.92"W, 35d19'13.36"N) Upper Right ( 350006.000, 3920006.000) ( 82d39' 7.17"W, 35d24'43.82"N) Lower Right ( 350006.000, 3909994.000) ( 82d39' 0.55"W, 35d19'18.95"N) Center ( 345000.000, 3915000.000) ( 82d42'22.15"W, 35d21'58.63"N) Band 1 Block=512x512 Type=Float32, ColorInterp=Gray Min=669.509 Max=1604.949 Minimum=669.509, Maximum=1604.949, Mean=988.295, StdDev=159.804 NoData Value=-99 Overviews: 5006x5006, 2503x2503, 1251x1251, 625x625, 312x312 Unit Type: US survey foot Metadata: STATISTICS_APPROXIMATE=YES STATISTICS_MAXIMUM=1604.9490966797 STATISTICS_MEAN=988.29463693706 STATISTICS_MINIMUM=669.50915527344 STATISTICS_STDDEV=159.80361228109 STATISTICS_VALID_PERCENT=100 ___ gdal-dev mailing list gdal-dev@lists.osgeo.org https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/gdal-dev
