Re: [Geany-devel] Geany-Plugins Dependency Consolidation
On Sun, 5 Aug 2012 10:21:04 +1000 Lex Trotman ele...@gmail.com wrote: On 5 August 2012 03:40, Matthew Brush mbr...@codebrainz.ca wrote: On 12-08-04 09:41 AM, Colomban Wendling wrote: [...] So... maybe I got your point wrong, but I don't think it's any kind of a problem to have different dependencies from one plugin to another -- actually, I think each plugin should set it dependencies to exactly what it needs: nothing less (of course), and nothing more. You got it mostly. I just mean some way for the build system to handle multiple plugins sharing same dependencies like having webkit.m4 that enables/disables multiple plugins if not found. So when you configure, it says something like this: checking for WebKit = x.xx ... no Disabling plugins: WebHelper, Devhelp, Markdown I don't see this, the *plugin* should define what it needs, not some arbitrary external build script. My (limited) understanding of the plugin autofoo is that is how its done now by having local build scripts in each plugin. If they require different versions that might mean you get Webhelper and Devhelp but not Markdown, but your scheme won't allow that. So if the Markdown dev added some new feature that needed a higher version I can't build the other two unless I upgrade my system :( We should not be forcing the *highest* version needed by plugins. I agree. But I also see the point of consolidation of dependencies. Its getting really complicated to say geany-plugins needs this dependencies, but I think its an issue we need to solve on social level, not trying to solve it with some hack. Is there any chance to get a complete list which plugins depend on which library out of autotools? Cheers, Frank -- http://frank.uvena.de/en/ pgpl6kSkojQ91.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ Geany-devel mailing list Geany-devel@uvena.de https://lists.uvena.de/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geany-devel
Re: [Geany-devel] Geany-Plugins Dependency Consolidation
On 5 August 2012 21:47, Frank Lanitz fr...@frank.uvena.de wrote: On Sun, 5 Aug 2012 10:21:04 +1000 Lex Trotman ele...@gmail.com wrote: On 5 August 2012 03:40, Matthew Brush mbr...@codebrainz.ca wrote: On 12-08-04 09:41 AM, Colomban Wendling wrote: [...] So... maybe I got your point wrong, but I don't think it's any kind of a problem to have different dependencies from one plugin to another -- actually, I think each plugin should set it dependencies to exactly what it needs: nothing less (of course), and nothing more. You got it mostly. I just mean some way for the build system to handle multiple plugins sharing same dependencies like having webkit.m4 that enables/disables multiple plugins if not found. So when you configure, it says something like this: checking for WebKit = x.xx ... no Disabling plugins: WebHelper, Devhelp, Markdown I don't see this, the *plugin* should define what it needs, not some arbitrary external build script. My (limited) understanding of the plugin autofoo is that is how its done now by having local build scripts in each plugin. If they require different versions that might mean you get Webhelper and Devhelp but not Markdown, but your scheme won't allow that. So if the Markdown dev added some new feature that needed a higher version I can't build the other two unless I upgrade my system :( We should not be forcing the *highest* version needed by plugins. I agree. But I also see the point of consolidation of dependencies. Its getting really complicated to say geany-plugins needs this dependencies, Well, I am not sure that we should be saying geany-plugins has dependencies anyway. IIUC, at least Debian packages each plugin separately anyway. I can't speak for other distros but it makes sense for users to be able to get just the plugins they want. Building the whole lot from source or git is fine, plugins that don't have their needs met don't build, but do tell you about it. but I think its an issue we need to solve on social level, not trying So I agree with Colomban, that there isn't anything to solve, different plugins have different dependencies, thats life. However I agree that checking what dependencies are specified is worthwhile from time to time, to make sure that the list is right in Autofoo and the documentation. Cheers Lex to solve it with some hack. Is there any chance to get a complete list which plugins depend on which library out of autotools? Cheers, Frank -- http://frank.uvena.de/en/ ___ Geany-devel mailing list Geany-devel@uvena.de https://lists.uvena.de/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geany-devel ___ Geany-devel mailing list Geany-devel@uvena.de https://lists.uvena.de/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geany-devel
Re: [Geany-devel] Geany-Plugins Dependency Consolidation
On 12-08-05 04:47 AM, Frank Lanitz wrote: On Sun, 5 Aug 2012 10:21:04 +1000 Lex Trotman ele...@gmail.com wrote: On 5 August 2012 03:40, Matthew Brush mbr...@codebrainz.ca wrote: On 12-08-04 09:41 AM, Colomban Wendling wrote: [...] So... maybe I got your point wrong, but I don't think it's any kind of a problem to have different dependencies from one plugin to another -- actually, I think each plugin should set it dependencies to exactly what it needs: nothing less (of course), and nothing more. You got it mostly. I just mean some way for the build system to handle multiple plugins sharing same dependencies like having webkit.m4 that enables/disables multiple plugins if not found. So when you configure, it says something like this: checking for WebKit = x.xx ... no Disabling plugins: WebHelper, Devhelp, Markdown I don't see this, the *plugin* should define what it needs, not some arbitrary external build script. My (limited) understanding of the plugin autofoo is that is how its done now by having local build scripts in each plugin. Yeah, and currently the plugins each check for the same shared dependencies, but it doesn't show what they're checking for, it just shows the plugin's name, like: checking for DEVHELP ... no What I'm asking about is to have a webkit.m4 (for example) or something that the plugins which use that dependency can make use of and so the check is only done once and if not found, it ouputs as I said previously. Of course I don't know if it's realistic/feasible, which is why I was asking. If they require different versions that might mean you get Webhelper and Devhelp but not Markdown, but your scheme won't allow that. So if the Markdown dev added some new feature that needed a higher version I can't build the other two unless I upgrade my system :( I mean they should require the same version, the same *lowest* version they can work with (even if they need some minor changes to make it possible). We should not be forcing the *highest* version needed by plugins. Not what I meant. But it's sort of what we do now if you consider building geany-plugins as a whole. I agree. But I also see the point of consolidation of dependencies. Its getting really complicated to say geany-plugins needs this dependencies, but I think its an issue we need to solve on social level, not trying to solve it with some hack. Is there any chance to get a complete list which plugins depend on which library out of autotools? What I was asking about wouldn't be a hack, it would just be to change the plugins a bit so they depend on the same version of shared libraries, and then to have Autotools do a check for the shared dependency. For a list of the dependencies, you can look through the `build` directory's .m4 files and manually extract them (like I did for some of the shared ones previously). The ones with the highest versions will be the minimum version required to build geany-plugins (as a whole). Cheers, Matthew Brush ___ Geany-devel mailing list Geany-devel@uvena.de https://lists.uvena.de/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geany-devel
Re: [Geany-devel] Geany-Plugins Dependency Consolidation
On Sun, 5 Aug 2012 22:24:12 +1000 Lex Trotman ele...@gmail.com wrote: On 5 August 2012 21:47, Frank Lanitz fr...@frank.uvena.de wrote: On Sun, 5 Aug 2012 10:21:04 +1000 Lex Trotman ele...@gmail.com wrote: On 5 August 2012 03:40, Matthew Brush mbr...@codebrainz.ca wrote: On 12-08-04 09:41 AM, Colomban Wendling wrote: [...] So... maybe I got your point wrong, but I don't think it's any kind of a problem to have different dependencies from one plugin to another -- actually, I think each plugin should set it dependencies to exactly what it needs: nothing less (of course), and nothing more. You got it mostly. I just mean some way for the build system to handle multiple plugins sharing same dependencies like having webkit.m4 that enables/disables multiple plugins if not found. So when you configure, it says something like this: checking for WebKit = x.xx ... no Disabling plugins: WebHelper, Devhelp, Markdown I don't see this, the *plugin* should define what it needs, not some arbitrary external build script. My (limited) understanding of the plugin autofoo is that is how its done now by having local build scripts in each plugin. If they require different versions that might mean you get Webhelper and Devhelp but not Markdown, but your scheme won't allow that. So if the Markdown dev added some new feature that needed a higher version I can't build the other two unless I upgrade my system :( We should not be forcing the *highest* version needed by plugins. I agree. But I also see the point of consolidation of dependencies. Its getting really complicated to say geany-plugins needs this dependencies, Well, I am not sure that we should be saying geany-plugins has dependencies anyway. IIUC, at least Debian packages each plugin separately anyway. I can't speak for other distros but it makes sense for users to be able to get just the plugins they want. Building the whole lot from source or git is fine, plugins that don't have their needs met don't build, but do tell you about it. but I think its an issue we need to solve on social level, not trying So I agree with Colomban, that there isn't anything to solve, different plugins have different dependencies, thats life. My goal is not to synchronize dependencies with a sword in my hand. I'm thinking about having a single point where the self-compiling use is able to check which version is needed for which plugin. So maybe an extension of Matthew's list inside a global INSTALL/README/whatever Cheers, Frank -- http://frank.uvena.de/en/ pgpoHC8kVoq1y.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ Geany-devel mailing list Geany-devel@uvena.de https://lists.uvena.de/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geany-devel
Re: [Geany-devel] Geany-Plugins Dependency Consolidation
On Sun, 05 Aug 2012 05:27:08 -0700 Matthew Brush mbr...@codebrainz.ca wrote: On 12-08-05 04:47 AM, Frank Lanitz wrote: On Sun, 5 Aug 2012 10:21:04 +1000 Lex Trotman ele...@gmail.com wrote: On 5 August 2012 03:40, Matthew Brush mbr...@codebrainz.ca wrote: On 12-08-04 09:41 AM, Colomban Wendling wrote: [...] So... maybe I got your point wrong, but I don't think it's any kind of a problem to have different dependencies from one plugin to another -- actually, I think each plugin should set it dependencies to exactly what it needs: nothing less (of course), and nothing more. You got it mostly. I just mean some way for the build system to handle multiple plugins sharing same dependencies like having webkit.m4 that enables/disables multiple plugins if not found. So when you configure, it says something like this: checking for WebKit = x.xx ... no Disabling plugins: WebHelper, Devhelp, Markdown I don't see this, the *plugin* should define what it needs, not some arbitrary external build script. My (limited) understanding of the plugin autofoo is that is how its done now by having local build scripts in each plugin. Yeah, and currently the plugins each check for the same shared dependencies, but it doesn't show what they're checking for, it just shows the plugin's name, like: checking for DEVHELP ... no What I'm asking about is to have a webkit.m4 (for example) or something that the plugins which use that dependency can make use of and so the check is only done once and if not found, it ouputs as I said previously. Of course I don't know if it's realistic/feasible, which is why I was asking. Sounds like a great idea. I support this wish. If they require different versions that might mean you get Webhelper and Devhelp but not Markdown, but your scheme won't allow that. So if the Markdown dev added some new feature that needed a higher version I can't build the other two unless I upgrade my system :( I mean they should require the same version, the same *lowest* version they can work with (even if they need some minor changes to make it possible). Should but not have to. I agree. We should not be forcing the *highest* version needed by plugins. Not what I meant. But it's sort of what we do now if you consider building geany-plugins as a whole. I agree. But I also see the point of consolidation of dependencies. Its getting really complicated to say geany-plugins needs this dependencies, but I think its an issue we need to solve on social level, not trying to solve it with some hack. Is there any chance to get a complete list which plugins depend on which library out of autotools? What I was asking about wouldn't be a hack, it would just be to change the plugins a bit so they depend on the same version of shared libraries, and then to have Autotools do a check for the shared dependency. Yes. It's mainly not a technical issue. Just some social issue where developers/maintainer have to talk to each other. For a list of the dependencies, you can look through the `build` directory's .m4 files and manually extract them (like I did for some of the shared ones previously). The ones with the highest versions will be the minimum version required to build geany-plugins (as a whole). Maybe building a script doing this would be a good idea. Cheers, Frank -- http://frank.uvena.de/en/ pgpE6ivcX38J3.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ Geany-devel mailing list Geany-devel@uvena.de https://lists.uvena.de/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geany-devel
Re: [Geany-devel] Geany-Plugins Dependency Consolidation
On Sun, 5 Aug 2012 16:55:07 +0200 Frank Lanitz fr...@frank.uvena.de wrote: For a list of the dependencies, you can look through the `build` directory's .m4 files and manually extract them (like I did for some of the shared ones previously). The ones with the highest versions will be the minimum version required to build geany-plugins (as a whole). Maybe building a script doing this would be a good idea. Having checked a couple of them I found it will be hard as they differ in way defining the dependencies... Cheers, Frank -- http://frank.uvena.de/en/ pgpgBdRN36CpM.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ Geany-devel mailing list Geany-devel@uvena.de https://lists.uvena.de/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geany-devel
Re: [Geany-devel] Geany-Plugins Dependency Consolidation
On 12-08-05 07:57 AM, Frank Lanitz wrote: On Sun, 5 Aug 2012 16:55:07 +0200 Frank Lanitz fr...@frank.uvena.de wrote: For a list of the dependencies, you can look through the `build` directory's .m4 files and manually extract them (like I did for some of the shared ones previously). The ones with the highest versions will be the minimum version required to build geany-plugins (as a whole). Maybe building a script doing this would be a good idea. Having checked a couple of them I found it will be hard as they differ in way defining the dependencies... Yep and most don't specify their shared dependencies (GTK, GLIB, etc.) explicitly but assume that if you have the Geany, you have what they need. Cheers, Matthew Brush ___ Geany-devel mailing list Geany-devel@uvena.de https://lists.uvena.de/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geany-devel
Re: [Geany-devel] Geany-Plugins Dependency Consolidation
On 6 August 2012 05:35, Matthew Brush mbr...@codebrainz.ca wrote: On 12-08-05 07:57 AM, Frank Lanitz wrote: On Sun, 5 Aug 2012 16:55:07 +0200 Frank Lanitz fr...@frank.uvena.de wrote: For a list of the dependencies, you can look through the `build` directory's .m4 files and manually extract them (like I did for some of the shared ones previously). The ones with the highest versions will be the minimum version required to build geany-plugins (as a whole). Maybe building a script doing this would be a good idea. Having checked a couple of them I found it will be hard as they differ in way defining the dependencies... Yep and most don't specify their shared dependencies (GTK, GLIB, etc.) explicitly but assume that if you have the Geany, you have what they need. Agree with you that that is bad, they should be specified so that users can be sure that the plugin dev meant any version will do rather than that they just forgot to specify it :) Cheers Lex Cheers, Matthew Brush ___ Geany-devel mailing list Geany-devel@uvena.de https://lists.uvena.de/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geany-devel ___ Geany-devel mailing list Geany-devel@uvena.de https://lists.uvena.de/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geany-devel
