Re: [Gendergap] Gendergap Digest, Vol 7, Issue 8
Dear Colleagues, I'll begin teaching: Anthropology, Wikipedia, and Media at a college beginning soon. The textbook is Good Faith Collaboration: The Culture of Wikipedia. I chose it because it covers the Wikipedia world in useful ways, was positively reviewed by Mssr. Wales and Ms. Gardner, and it refers back to classical works and ideas, that are useful for gaining a more integrated understanding of how things have come to be. H.G. Wells comes to mind, as do essays mentioned in the text about problems of structurelessness, altruism, and open source, generally. Because we are taking an anthropological approach, we'll be aware of gender and diversity issues raised by demographic and other social phenomena, and we'll seek topics, not because they fill a gap, but because students can learn to contribute and feel confident to move forward on their own eventually. I want to know about IRC also. What became of WikiChix? I see they met and had lunch this year... I'm interested in corresponding with any other scholars who are teaching Wikipedia to teens and adults. I am in touch with local Ambassadors. KS___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
Re: [Gendergap] Just a few days into have the IRC channel
It sounds good for socializing, announcing and and brainstorming, but without archiving seems problematic for ongoing organizing. (I.e. task oriented people like me might not like it as much as social networking oriented people) On 8/24/2011 1:34 PM, Brandon Harris wrote: I think this is a mis-characterization of the medium and its usage. I've been using IRC since, oh, 1991 or so, however, so it's a natural thing for me. One of the issues - especially with software support channels - is that they are actually *slow moving*. And you're supposed to idle and wait for answers. IRC is a *background* process; you throw the window at the bottom of the stack and wait for it to notify you that someone has said something to you. I can help you get online if you like. I'll need to know what kind of computer you use. On 8/24/11 10:01 AM, Arnaud HERVE wrote: On 22/08/2011 04:58, carolmoor...@verizon.net wrote: I confess, I'm not sure what IRC is and not enough info in the #address for me to get there easily. ;-( IRC is a chat system, except it is a bit more difficult to install and register in than say your average msn or skype. But basically you type messages with your keyboard, and they disappear as several other people answer. It was used first by professional geeks, and it has recently spread to clever teenagers. Since you are new to it I might as well give you my own experience, warning you though that it is entirely negative. The first time i used irc was about a software that I used, because the programmers on that website said if you have questions please pay us a visit on irc. I found it extremely inconvenient, because : - You did not find the right person to answer your question if that person appeared to be offline. - The other way round, interesting answers given on irc quickly disappeared and were not published for all the other interested people to read. In other words, irc was for me insanely unproductive, especially compared to the forum that the website already had, with messages that could wait online for the right reply, or stayed online for readers with same questions. Also, the discussions were not categorized on irc, or had no title like here, so that with your question you were forced to meddle in other conversations going on about other topics. I then thought that irc was a media for computer-illiterate people. You may ask then why was it used by programmers ? Well it was a social need for programmers to gather in a specific space not for noobs. The second time I used irc was in my leisure time, in connection with a team for the translation of Japanese anime. There was a lot of pleasant chat, banter, even quizz games, but it was very difficult to maintain a conversation about the translation of Japanese anime amidst all that noise. Also, since I was already typing around 3k words a day, it proved impossible for me to stay on the keyboard in the evening. I had to go out, walk, watch movies... well in general turn away from the computer. Or get a life is another way of putting it. Another element that disturbed me is the conversation-between-close-friends atmosphere that irc creates. Those people were more like hobby acquaintances, not the kind of friends who will visit you if you are sick, who will help you moving furniture between appartments, etc. Not even people you will eat with. The atmosphere was too friendly for people you hardly know. I was too old-school for that I guess. The common point between geek users and teenager users is that irc is for people who : - do not use computers intensively in their work, or do not mind using them intensivey again in their free time - don't mind spending their evenings typing alone in their rooms, making friends with unknown people - don't mind if their messages disappear, don't mind if some relevant readers will never read them - don't mind if they miss relevant messages if they happen to be away - don't mind sympathizing closely with people that they will never see or are ready to forget immediately As a conclusion, irc is from my point of view totally incompatible with political discussions, which would require taking time to write to write articulate messages, taking time to read them, separating the topics to make them reasonably readable, and a social atmosphere suited for distant sympathizers for a cause. My two cents, anyway who am I to criticize, since I won't use it. I have documents to read instead. I don't chat, I read and write. If you don't know how to register, have someone show you, you will make your own opinion. Arnaud ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
Re: [Gendergap] an example of the unwanted attention problem
(prepares to expose herself a bit, andbreaths) I have absolutely dealt with this behavior. While no one has openly left comments on my talk pages, I have been told a few strange things in my day as a Wikipedian. From I'll help you because I think you're hot (paraphrasing - I was actually judged on a 1 to 10 rating system by a group of Wikipedians) to stalking comments from banned users like you're so hot I'd like you to have my babies. The only power I have right now is a delete or ignore button. For me, I just keep on keepin on, because *I expect people to be direspectful and sexist to me on Wikipedia*. The only thing I can do is to them otherwise, speak my mind and say what I think, which I'm rather good at. I also rely strongly on, to be honest, fellow editors - primarily men - who speak up on my behalf. The few women I know who I consider really good friends on Wikipedia aren't involved in any aspect of the gender gap, and aren't as proactive or opinionated as me. Which, I guess gets me into more trouble than usual. Often these situations are as common as the sexism I might experience in the real world, outside of work - but, Wikipedia...it's sort of work for me, right now. To be honest, I have a terribly low selfesteem when it comes to my work in Wikimedia - whether it's thinking I should apply for a job or fellowship, or it's applying for an admin position, or just speaking up in certain topics. I feel that I'm not tech savvy enough, and it's really intimidating since so much of the culture is based around that. It's also intimidating, in general. Just like any other geek world - whether it's playing online RPGs (yes, I've dabbled a bit) or having acquaintances who do society for creative anarchonism (aka play dress up like dungeons and dragons characters) - they assume because of my name I am one thing. The only thing I can do is prove them wrong, including the women sometimes too. I often channel my anger into changing things. But, when I think about my own experiences, I have no idea what to to do about them. -Sarah On Wed, Aug 24, 2011 at 3:55 PM, Ryan Kaldari rkald...@wikimedia.orgwrote: This situation from earlier today has already been resolved, so no drama is necessary, but I thought I would post one of the diffs here as an example for discussion: http://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Beriadiff=nextoldid=58432635 I think this is a good example of the unwanted attention problem that I've heard about from several female editors. Generally, when people talk about sexist behavior on Wikipedia, they tend to think of misogynistic behavior, but I think the unwanted attention/stalking problem may be just as important. Have others on the list experienced this problem? How did it affect you? How did you deal with it? Any ideas for how it can be addressed systematically? Ryan Kaldari ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap -- GLAMWIKI Partnership Ambassador for the Wikimedia Foundationhttp://www.glamwiki.org Wikipedian-in-Residence, Archives of American Arthttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:SarahStierch and Sarah Stierch Consulting *Historical, cultural artistic research advising.* -- http://www.sarahstierch.com/ ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
Re: [Gendergap] an example of the unwanted attention problem
First, note per my last message on stalkers, obviously the other editors on the issue in question were assumed to be or admittedly male. I identify with below. Some women are just more diplomatic than we may be; others have unconsciously gotten into the habit of always apologizing for opining - though theose often may be more likely to leave. What's funny is on a current article I originally thought two aggressive editors, one of whom even attacked me bringing up an old block to try to keep me from editing, turned out to be women. However, they are editing on an article where the top allows them to actualize the role of the female bear protecting her cubs. Also, while it can be frustrating, I don't let my lack of tech saavy let me feel bad. Better to carp that the tech savvies should make it easier for the rest of us and get them to admit you are right! :-) On 8/24/2011 8:09 PM, Sarah Stierch wrote: The only power I have right now is a delete or ignore button. For me, I just keep on keepin on, because *I expect people to be direspectful and sexist to me on Wikipedia*. The only thing I can do is to them otherwise, speak my mind and say what I think, which I'm rather good at. I also rely strongly on, to be honest, fellow editors - primarily men - who speak up on my behalf. The few women I know who I consider really good friends on Wikipedia aren't involved in any aspect of the gender gap, and aren't as proactive or opinionated as me. Which, I guess gets me into more trouble than usual. Often these situations are as common as the sexism I might experience in the real world, outside of work - but, Wikipedia...it's sort of work for me, right now. To be honest, I have a terribly low selfesteem when it comes to my work in Wikimedia - whether it's thinking I should apply for a job or fellowship, or it's applying for an admin position, or just speaking up in certain topics. I feel that I'm not tech savvy enough, and it's really intimidating since so much of the culture is based around that. It's also intimidating, in general. Just like any other geek world - whether it's playing online RPGs (yes, I've dabbled a bit) or having acquaintances who do society for creative anarchonism (aka play dress up like dungeons and dragons characters) - they assume because of my name I am one thing. The only thing I can do is prove them wrong, including the women sometimes too. I often channel my anger into changing things. But, when I think about my own experiences, I have no idea what to to do about them. -Sarah ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
