[Gendergap] coordination work off-wiki
The only solution would be lack of anonymity. That won't fly, but it would cause the creepiness to go away. On Sun, Nov 30, 2014 at 11:42 AM, JJ Marr jjm...@gmail.com wrote: What do you propose a take back the night would be like? On Nov 30, 2014 8:12 AM, Kathleen McCook klmcc...@gmail.com wrote: Yes, one can see easily how they move from topic to topic. Connected and ensuring their POV dominates. The issue of feminism should not be defined by men whose motivation seems to be to create an environment where women are free to be what they (the men discussed here ) imagine to us to be. I believe that Marie's statements about keeping these issues off one's main course are the result of continuous attacks. Wikipedia needs a TAKE BACK THE NIGHT movement. In my days on campus women attacked were told they shouldn't be out at night.So marches began to TAKE BACK THE NIGHT. On Sun, Nov 30, 2014 at 2:16 AM, JJ Marr jjm...@gmail.com wrote: To quote you in the context of your dispute over a video, you say I dispute that it makes little sense and why does it even need to add informational value? Why can't it just be to add aesthetics to the article as pictures and videos often are?” I ask why don't you take that dispute up with the editor in question? Also, you need to be more clear in what you are saying. I have no context to this message, and I think it is a complaint about a content dispute. Please explain why this is relevant to the gender gap, since you are sending it out to everyone on the gender gap mailing list, and secondly, why a minor content dispute on enwiki is relevant to the Wikimedia gender gap community as a whole. On Nov 30, 2014 1:47 AM, Marie Earley eir...@hotmail.com wrote: Not sure if this will produce a new thread or attach to the existing one (I've checked my spam folder, there's nothing there) but anyway Tim: I just wondered whether you regard this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Countering_systemic_bias/Gender_gap_task_force#Moving_forward ...as a lack of civility or a gender gap issue? In particular this comment: ...As has been indicated on the talk page of the proposed decision, *repeatedly,* there is some question as to exactly *which* women this group seems to be reaching out toward, specifically, whether it is more or less of a more or less radical feminist perspective I thought it summed up in a nutshell what the GGTF was really up against. It's a kind of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McCarthyism * Are you now or have you ever been a feminist who believes that sex work is the opposite of feminism? Anyone who answers yes that question is judged to be a radical, a subversive who wants to push POV and therefore they are fair game. On WP's list of feminists there were a very odd mish-mash of categories of feminist https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=List_of_feministsoldid=544136790 and lots of names missing e.g. Gail Dines. I did a major rewrite to organize it chronologically and it meant that anti-pornography feminists, anti-prostitution feminists and socialist feminists could go onto the list https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=List_of_feministsoldid=545667727 The list has recently been changed to this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_feminists and I'm working with a couple of editors to see how we can improve it further. I've largely avoided trouble by sticking to admin based work such as this, and similar work: Cleaning up bibliographies, e.g. Joseph Schumpeter, from this: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Joseph_Schumpeteroldid=633566034#Major_works to this: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Joseph_Schumpeteroldid=634343909#Major_works Creating an article for the International Association for Feminist Economics https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Association_for_Feminist_Economics and improving the article for the Human Development and Capability Association https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_Development_and_Capability_Association then creating biographies for past presidents of IAFFE and fellows of the HDCA. Adding DOBs to notable scholars and then adding them to Wiki's calendar (births). These organisations / individuals argues against sex work on the grounds of the perception of women that is generated (i.e. as a thing / object). The problem with the MRA, pro-porn, pro-sex work POV is they have no problem with anti-porn etc. POV provided it is in a box labelled mad or religious with a sub-text that the only people that could possibly support that POV are from the moral right and are probably racist and homophobic as well. The other problem that the MRA have is that, human development and capability, which includes feminist economics / inequality / care work etc. collectively constitutes a 'single broad topic' (WP:SPATG), so they are unable to stop editors, who wish to edit in this area, from doing
Re: [Gendergap] coordination work off-wiki
You could go to Citizendium, considering that has a lack of anonymity and strict civility rules. http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citizendium http://citizendium.org/ On Nov 30, 2014 11:52 AM, Kathleen McCook klmcc...@gmail.com wrote: The only solution would be lack of anonymity. That won't fly, but it would cause the creepiness to go away. On Sun, Nov 30, 2014 at 11:42 AM, JJ Marr jjm...@gmail.com wrote: What do you propose a take back the night would be like? On Nov 30, 2014 8:12 AM, Kathleen McCook klmcc...@gmail.com wrote: Yes, one can see easily how they move from topic to topic. Connected and ensuring their POV dominates. The issue of feminism should not be defined by men whose motivation seems to be to create an environment where women are free to be what they (the men discussed here ) imagine to us to be. I believe that Marie's statements about keeping these issues off one's main course are the result of continuous attacks. Wikipedia needs a TAKE BACK THE NIGHT movement. In my days on campus women attacked were told they shouldn't be out at night.So marches began to TAKE BACK THE NIGHT. On Sun, Nov 30, 2014 at 2:16 AM, JJ Marr jjm...@gmail.com wrote: To quote you in the context of your dispute over a video, you say I dispute that it makes little sense and why does it even need to add informational value? Why can't it just be to add aesthetics to the article as pictures and videos often are? I ask why don't you take that dispute up with the editor in question? Also, you need to be more clear in what you are saying. I have no context to this message, and I think it is a complaint about a content dispute. Please explain why this is relevant to the gender gap, since you are sending it out to everyone on the gender gap mailing list, and secondly, why a minor content dispute on enwiki is relevant to the Wikimedia gender gap community as a whole. On Nov 30, 2014 1:47 AM, Marie Earley eir...@hotmail.com wrote: Not sure if this will produce a new thread or attach to the existing one (I've checked my spam folder, there's nothing there) but anyway Tim: I just wondered whether you regard this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Countering_systemic_bias/Gender_gap_task_force#Moving_forward ...as a lack of civility or a gender gap issue? In particular this comment: ...As has been indicated on the talk page of the proposed decision, *repeatedly,* there is some question as to exactly *which* women this group seems to be reaching out toward, specifically, whether it is more or less of a more or less radical feminist perspective I thought it summed up in a nutshell what the GGTF was really up against. It's a kind of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McCarthyism * Are you now or have you ever been a feminist who believes that sex work is the opposite of feminism? Anyone who answers yes that question is judged to be a radical, a subversive who wants to push POV and therefore they are fair game. On WP's list of feminists there were a very odd mish-mash of categories of feminist https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=List_of_feministsoldid=544136790 and lots of names missing e.g. Gail Dines. I did a major rewrite to organize it chronologically and it meant that anti-pornography feminists, anti-prostitution feminists and socialist feminists could go onto the list https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=List_of_feministsoldid=545667727 The list has recently been changed to this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_feminists and I'm working with a couple of editors to see how we can improve it further. I've largely avoided trouble by sticking to admin based work such as this, and similar work: Cleaning up bibliographies, e.g. Joseph Schumpeter, from this: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Joseph_Schumpeteroldid=633566034#Major_works to this: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Joseph_Schumpeteroldid=634343909#Major_works Creating an article for the International Association for Feminist Economics https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Association_for_Feminist_Economics and improving the article for the Human Development and Capability Association https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_Development_and_Capability_Association then creating biographies for past presidents of IAFFE and fellows of the HDCA. Adding DOBs to notable scholars and then adding them to Wiki's calendar (births). These organisations / individuals argues against sex work on the grounds of the perception of women that is generated (i.e. as a thing / object). The problem with the MRA, pro-porn, pro-sex work POV is they have no problem with anti-porn etc. POV provided it is in a box labelled mad or religious with a sub-text that the only people that could possibly support that POV are from the moral right and are probably racist and homophobic as well. The other problem that the MRA have is that,
Re: [Gendergap] coordination work off-wiki
On 11/30/2014 11:51 AM, Kathleen McCook wrote: The only solution would be lack of anonymity. That won't fly, but it would cause the creepiness to go away. I used to think that too. But some people don't care about people knowing who they are, what they think or who the mess with. I don't care that much about anonymity and have said a few problematic things (usually under intense harassment). Assuming he really is Eric Corbett, he's said a lot. Sitush has outed who he really is at least three times and redacted only one, so that's widely known. Same is true for a lot of individuals, some of whom flame away just within the boundaries of NPA. The problem is there are all sorts of harassers out there, some of them paid by govts, who will harass or come after individuals who disagree with them or who criticize their favorite program, politician, party or country. Better would be a sliding scale of privileges depending on whether you are an IP or registered and confirmed and whether you are at least willing to admit who you are to the Foundation, including confirming via phone or skype. The latter would be mandatory to become an Admin or an Arbitrator or to retain editing privileges after violating important policies repeatedly. This would work REALLY good to stop BLP violations which have been the biggest time sink for me, at least until GGTF. Once the Foundation knows who you are, it's really easy for pissed off subjects of trashy BLPs to get a subpoena and sue your butt. I have a list of good ideas in formulation, some drawn from previous discussions, and one of these days soon will post here, at my carolmoore.net/wikipedia, at the new youtube site and who knows where else. (Opinion page of NY TImes? ha ha ha) CM ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
