Re: [Gendergap] Gender neutrality template
plus 1 pharos idea!! i think might be passive but powerful way to inform
people.
On Tue, Oct 4, 2011 at 3:52 PM, Pharos wrote:
> On Sat, Oct 1, 2011 at 3:29 PM, Daniel and Elizabeth Case
> wrote:
> >
> >
> > I love the idea of having articles of gender concern in a one stop
> shopping
> > space. Going through the NPOV collection is long, painful and is filled
> with
> > lots of advertising articles for tech companies. Blarg
> >
> > -Sarah
> >I agree with a gender-specific tag as well. NPOV is (by design) vague
> > and, to me, not quite the fit we need as it is best applied to allegedly
> > non-neutral use of language (in obvious cases of POV language, I just fix
> it
> > ... there's no need to discuss). We ourselves already have {{globalize}}
> >
> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Globalize
> >
> > for the situation of articles reflecting only the experience of one
> > particular region of the world or country. I don't see why gender bias
> > couldn't be addressed the same way.
>
> I was going suggest the Globalize template as well; it's a good model
> of encouraging broader diversity (The examples and perspective in this
> article may not represent a worldwide view of the subject) without the
> boilerplate harsher tone of the stand NPOV template.
>
> Thanks,
> Richard
> (User:Pharos)
>
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Re: [Gendergap] Gender neutrality template
Just a reminder, we have a conversation started here about it:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Feminism#Gender_neutrality_template
I also brought up the use of some templates used for gender studies. If we
can start contributing to the wiki about this, that'd be wonderful!
Thanks everyone for your input and Jayen466 for taking the initiative,
-Sarah
On Tue, Oct 4, 2011 at 11:52 AM, Pharos wrote:
> On Sat, Oct 1, 2011 at 3:29 PM, Daniel and Elizabeth Case
> wrote:
> >
> >
> > I love the idea of having articles of gender concern in a one stop
> shopping
> > space. Going through the NPOV collection is long, painful and is filled
> with
> > lots of advertising articles for tech companies. Blarg
> >
> > -Sarah
> >I agree with a gender-specific tag as well. NPOV is (by design) vague
> > and, to me, not quite the fit we need as it is best applied to allegedly
> > non-neutral use of language (in obvious cases of POV language, I just fix
> it
> > ... there's no need to discuss). We ourselves already have {{globalize}}
> >
> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Globalize
> >
> > for the situation of articles reflecting only the experience of one
> > particular region of the world or country. I don't see why gender bias
> > couldn't be addressed the same way.
>
> I was going suggest the Globalize template as well; it's a good model
> of encouraging broader diversity (The examples and perspective in this
> article may not represent a worldwide view of the subject) without the
> boilerplate harsher tone of the stand NPOV template.
>
> Thanks,
> Richard
> (User:Pharos)
>
> ___
> Gendergap mailing list
> Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
>
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Re: [Gendergap] Gender neutrality template
On Sat, Oct 1, 2011 at 3:29 PM, Daniel and Elizabeth Case
wrote:
>
>
> I love the idea of having articles of gender concern in a one stop shopping
> space. Going through the NPOV collection is long, painful and is filled with
> lots of advertising articles for tech companies. Blarg
>
> -Sarah
> I agree with a gender-specific tag as well. NPOV is (by design) vague
> and, to me, not quite the fit we need as it is best applied to allegedly
> non-neutral use of language (in obvious cases of POV language, I just fix it
> ... there's no need to discuss). We ourselves already have {{globalize}}
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Globalize
>
> for the situation of articles reflecting only the experience of one
> particular region of the world or country. I don't see why gender bias
> couldn't be addressed the same way.
I was going suggest the Globalize template as well; it's a good model
of encouraging broader diversity (The examples and perspective in this
article may not represent a worldwide view of the subject) without the
boilerplate harsher tone of the stand NPOV template.
Thanks,
Richard
(User:Pharos)
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Re: [Gendergap] Gender neutrality template
Thanks all for the feedback. I've started a discussion on-wiki, at
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Feminism#Gender_neutrality_template
Andreas
--- On Sat, 1/10/11, Daniel and Elizabeth Case wrote:
From: Daniel and Elizabeth Case
Subject: Re: [Gendergap] Gender neutrality template
To: "Increasing female participation in Wikimedia projects"
Date: Saturday, 1 October, 2011, 20:29
I love the idea of having articles of
gender concern in a one stop shopping space. Going through the NPOV
collection
is long, painful and is filled with lots of advertising articles for tech
companies. Blarg
-Sarah
I agree with a gender-specific tag
as well. NPOV is (by design) vague and, to me, not quite the fit we need as
it
is best applied to allegedly non-neutral use of language (in obvious cases of
POV language, I just fix it ... there's no need to discuss). We ourselves
already have {{globalize}}
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Globalize
for the situation of articles reflecting only the
experience of one particular region of the world or country. I don't see why
gender bias couldn't be addressed the same way.
Daniel Case
-Inline Attachment Follows-
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Re: [Gendergap] Gender neutrality template
I love the idea of having articles of gender concern in a one stop shopping
space. Going through the NPOV collection is long, painful and is filled with
lots of advertising articles for tech companies. Blarg
-Sarah
I agree with a gender-specific tag as well. NPOV is (by design) vague and,
to me, not quite the fit we need as it is best applied to allegedly non-neutral
use of language (in obvious cases of POV language, I just fix it ... there's no
need to discuss). We ourselves already have {{globalize}}
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Globalize
for the situation of articles reflecting only the experience of one
particular region of the world or country. I don't see why gender bias couldn't
be addressed the same way.
Daniel Case___
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Re: [Gendergap] Gender neutrality template
We also have a "controversial" template...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Controversial
I love the idea of having articles of gender concern in a one stop shopping
space. Going through the NPOV collection is long, painful and is filled with
lots of advertising articles for tech companies. Blarg
-Sarah
On Sat, Oct 1, 2011 at 10:21 AM, wrote:
> There are other more powerful groups that would use the precedent to
> create a template that would censor a number of articles that already are
> heavily patrolled and censored by organized groups of editors (many of them
> surely paid, not that they'd ever admit it).
>
> Instead use the POV template and make editors think by explaining the POV
> template on the talk page. And mention the problem on Wikiproject Feminism.
>
> On 9/30/2011 11:30 AM, Andreas Kolbe wrote:
>
> What do you think about creating a {{gendergap}} or {{GNPOV}}
> (gender-neutral point of view) template in en:WP? This could have a format
> similar to
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:NPOV
>
> and could use an image like
>
> http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Igualtat_de_sexes.svg
>
> The text could say something like:
>
> "The gender neutrality of this article is disputed. Please see the
> discussion on the talk page. Please do not remove this message until the
> dispute is resolved."
>
> Note that templates of this sort come with associated categories such as
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:NPOV_disputes_from_September_2011
>
> These categories can help identify articles with active disputes.
>
> Thoughts?
>
> Do we already have a template like that that I am unaware of?
>
> Best,
> Andreas
>
>
>
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Re: [Gendergap] Gender neutrality template
There are other more powerful groups that would use the precedent to
create a template that would censor a number of articles that already
are heavily patrolled and censored by organized groups of editors (many
of them surely paid, not that they'd ever admit it).
Instead use the POV template and make editors think by explaining the
POV template on the talk page. And mention the problem on Wikiproject
Feminism.
On 9/30/2011 11:30 AM, Andreas Kolbe wrote:
What do you think about creating a {{gendergap}} or {{GNPOV}}
(gender-neutral point of view) template in en:WP? This could have a
format similar to
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:NPOV
and could use an image like
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Igualtat_de_sexes.svg
The text could say something like:
"The gender neutrality of this article is disputed. Please see the
discussion on the talk page. Please do not remove this message until
the dispute is resolved."
Note that templates of this sort come with associated categories such as
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:NPOV_disputes_from_September_2011
These categories can help identify articles with active disputes.
Thoughts?
Do we already have a template like that that I am unaware of?
Best,
Andreas
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Re: [Gendergap] Gender neutrality template
Andreas, my preference would be to stick with the NPOV banner we have (which is
pretty sufficient for all manner of non-neutrality issues), and instead
encourage people who use it to actually open a discussion on the talk page when
applying the template.
It is all too common that someone will slap the banner on the top of an
article, and move on without even mentioning what the problem is. Sometimes the
banner remains for months or years without any discussion. I don't think that
is particularly helpful; I would love to see people concerned with gender
issues (along with many other issues) simply work on asserting their concerns
in a clear and productive manner on the discussion page.
Also, this might make a great discussion on-wiki discussion topic, for instance
at: http://enwp.org/WT:FEMINISM
-Pete
On Sep 30, 2011, at 8:30 AM, Andreas Kolbe wrote:
> What do you think about creating a {{gendergap}} or {{GNPOV}} (gender-neutral
> point of view) template in en:WP? This could have a format similar to
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:NPOV
>
> and could use an image like
>
> http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Igualtat_de_sexes.svg
>
> The text could say something like:
>
> "The gender neutrality of this article is disputed. Please see the discussion
> on the talk page. Please do not remove this message until the dispute is
> resolved."
>
> Note that templates of this sort come with associated categories such as
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:NPOV_disputes_from_September_2011
>
> These categories can help identify articles with active disputes.
>
> Thoughts?
>
> Do we already have a template like that that I am unaware of?
>
> Best,
> Andreas
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petefors...@gmail.com
503-383-9454 mobile
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Re: [Gendergap] Gender neutrality template
What do you think about creating a {{gendergap}} or {{GNPOV}} (gender-neutral
point of view) template in en:WP? This could have a format similar to
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:NPOV
and could use an image like
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Igualtat_de_sexes.svg
The text could say something like:
"The gender neutrality of this article is disputed. Please see the discussion
on the talk page. Please do not remove this message until the dispute is
resolved."
Note that templates of this sort come with associated categories such as
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:NPOV_disputes_from_September_2011
These categories can help identify articles with active disputes.
Thoughts?
Do we already have a template like that that I am unaware of?
Best,Andreas___
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