Re: [Gendergap] Sexualized environment on Commons
On 8/2/2014 1:37 AM, Keilana wrote: To briefly go back to what Sarah and Marie have said, I do find that in person hand-holding and social support are the most effective factors in getting women to stick around. I don't know how to translate that from the real-world environment I teach newbies in to the virtual environment of new users' talk pages. I'd love to brainstorm something in that vein, though. :) -Emily Lots of SKYPE mini- seminars!!! (Women only.) ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
[Gendergap] Discussion on Jimbo Wales talk page
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Jimbo_Wales#Rebooted_discussion This whole topic is going hot on heave on his talk page, starting with his proposal which I mention in my response on the proposalbelow: What if it was far more limited: /WMF hires mediators to do mediation and to train and monitor volunteer mediators. Mediation would be voluntary but it is likely Admins and Arbitrators would not look well on those who refused to engage in mediation or obviously did not take it seriously once they agreed to it./ I was in one mediation around 2007-8 on a really controversial topic. The mediator was inexperienced and had to start over at one point; but it still was extremely effective and greatly diminished edit warring among a few editors over several articles. However after that I couldn't find mediators for a one or two issues that had been accepted for mediation because no moderators were available, so I didn't try again for a few years. When I did four people wanted it; two refused on questionable grounds. The issue went to arbitration but Arbitrators didn't take the mediation issue seriously, perhaps because it was known that there aren't many mediators or they aren't effective. Of course it's been ignored, but there are some thoughtful comments there. And a lot of drama with a couple guys who defend their right to be uncivil quitting. While I was on my best behavior with constructive comments throughout, I did have to say at one point that those who support incivility should at least not have a double standard against women being equally uncivil. What good for the goose is good for the gander. Later my roommate explained to me the gander is the MALE not the female! So it took me 66 years to figure it out. Maybe others are similarly confused?? I guess from now on just to make myself perfectly clear I'll say Whats good for the male gander is good for the female goose. Ai, yi, yi!! CM ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
[Gendergap] Tweet on Paula England
I saw this tweet Philip Cohen. from https://twitter.com/familyunequal/status/495662217149546496 Attention, gender sociologists: Paula England has no Wikipedia page. Someone should make one before she becomes president of @ASAnews https://twitter.com/ASAnews. What do we do when someone thinks someone should have a page? Is there a place he can request? ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
[Gendergap] Sessions at Wikimania related to gender gap
Hi all, I have put together a list of sessions which may be relevant to the members of this list. If you are going to Wikimania in London (Aug 6-10), you might find these sessions interesting : * https://wikimania2014.wikimedia.org/wiki/Submissions/Creative_Ways_to_Alienate_Women_Online:_A_How-to_Guide_for_Wikipedians * https://wikimania2014.wikimedia.org/wiki/Submissions/Systemic_Bias_Workshop_Development_-_IEG_update * https://wikimania2014.wikimedia.org/wiki/Submissions/Where%27s_the_T_in_Wikimedia_Diversity * https://wikimania2014.wikimedia.org/wiki/Submissions/Internet_skills_and_the_gender_gap * https://wikimania2014.wikimedia.org/wiki/Submissions/Diversity_Workshop:_Gender_gap_strategy_into_action * https://wikimania2014.wikimedia.org/wiki/Submissions/Gender_and_Beyond:_Building_Diversity_in_the_Digital_Space And if you are a woman, sign up for the Wikiwomen's lunch, too! : https://wikimania2014.wikimedia.org/wiki/WikiWomen%27s_Lunch -N -- Netha Hussain Student of Medicine and Surgery Govt. Medical College, Kozhikode Blogs : *nethahussain.blogspot.com http://nethahussain.blogspot.comswethaambari.wordpress.com http://swethaambari.wordpress.com* ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
Re: [Gendergap] Sexualized environment on Commons
IRC is almost embarrassingly old technology; Wikimedia Foundation projects are the only place I've seen it mentioned in the last five years or more. On Sat, Aug 2, 2014 at 7:29 PM, Pine W wiki.p...@gmail.com wrote: We already have #wikipedia-en-help which is remarkably good for a volunteer help project. Links to join that IRC channel could be offered in multiple places. Other languages may have similar channels. Pine On Aug 2, 2014 8:42 AM, Jeremy Baron jer...@tuxmachine.com wrote: On Aug 2, 2014 11:01 AM, LtPowers ltpowers_w...@rochester.rr.com wrote: And then there could be a little chat window allowing real-time communication while the editor walks through her first edit. [originally didn't realize who you were replying to… also haven't read the whole thread yet] That is technically feasible. Maybe would have new implications for privacy (including WMF privacy policy). Unless the realtime chats were publicly logged. (then same privacy as existing teahouse, etc) Essentially would be a more interactive version of teahouse? (i.e. shorter wait for a reply and you're paired with someone that's known to be available at that moment) would be a part of teahouse? How would you staff it? Shifts? Anyway, that does nothing for the case Kathleen describes. 25 people (20f:5m) in a class and everyone getting that introduction to all things wiki. Then 7 stay active for a year including all the men. (and only 2 of the 20 women) I'm leaning towards thinking we as a community should (for now) focus more on the retention gap than the recruitment gap. Then we're not recruiting people just to (mostly) lose them in a month or two. But would be interested to hear thoughts on that from someone with a more rigorous analysis. -Jeremy (jeremyb) P.S. http://www.onthemedia.org/story/31-race-swap-experiment/ ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap -- Michael J. Orange Mike Lowrey When I get a little money I buy books; and if any is left, I buy food and clothes. -- Desiderius Erasmus ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
Re: [Gendergap] Sexualized environment on Commons
That's exactly my point, Pine. This kind of inside-baseball geekery is so much Choctaw to the ordinary new editor we are trying to recruit and retain, people more likely to be using Pinterest or Skype or Ravelry to communicate with peers and mentors. On Sat, Aug 2, 2014 at 8:54 PM, Pine W wiki.p...@gmail.com wrote: You might be surprised how widely and how much Freenode is used for open source projects. The Blender main and dev channels were even more active than English Wikipedia's equivalents when I visited a few days ago. Pine On Aug 2, 2014 6:38 PM, Michael J. Lowrey orangem...@gmail.com wrote: IRC is almost embarrassingly old technology; Wikimedia Foundation projects are the only place I've seen it mentioned in the last five years or more. On Sat, Aug 2, 2014 at 7:29 PM, Pine W wiki.p...@gmail.com wrote: We already have #wikipedia-en-help which is remarkably good for a volunteer help project. Links to join that IRC channel could be offered in multiple places. Other languages may have similar channels. Pine On Aug 2, 2014 8:42 AM, Jeremy Baron jer...@tuxmachine.com wrote: On Aug 2, 2014 11:01 AM, LtPowers ltpowers_w...@rochester.rr.com wrote: And then there could be a little chat window allowing real-time communication while the editor walks through her first edit. [originally didn't realize who you were replying to… also haven't read the whole thread yet] That is technically feasible. Maybe would have new implications for privacy (including WMF privacy policy). Unless the realtime chats were publicly logged. (then same privacy as existing teahouse, etc) Essentially would be a more interactive version of teahouse? (i.e. shorter wait for a reply and you're paired with someone that's known to be available at that moment) would be a part of teahouse? How would you staff it? Shifts? Anyway, that does nothing for the case Kathleen describes. 25 people (20f:5m) in a class and everyone getting that introduction to all things wiki. Then 7 stay active for a year including all the men. (and only 2 of the 20 women) I'm leaning towards thinking we as a community should (for now) focus more on the retention gap than the recruitment gap. Then we're not recruiting people just to (mostly) lose them in a month or two. But would be interested to hear thoughts on that from someone with a more rigorous analysis. -Jeremy (jeremyb) P.S. http://www.onthemedia.org/story/31-race-swap-experiment/ ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap -- Michael J. Orange Mike Lowrey When I get a little money I buy books; and if any is left, I buy food and clothes. -- Desiderius Erasmus ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap -- Michael J. Orange Mike Lowrey When I get a little money I buy books; and if any is left, I buy food and clothes. -- Desiderius Erasmus ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
Re: [Gendergap] Sexualized environment on Commons
Exactly. IRC is for the old school and ubergeek. And as Sue has said in the past - we're only going to retain specific types of people to be long term editors (ubergeeks like us) but, if we can figure out a solution to help out the average joe/sphine editor... then huzzah. That's what the Teahouse helped do, but what is the next step to supporting people who haven't quite passed the barrier to editing Wikipedia. And expecting people to want to join the ranks through OTRS emails surely isn't the ultimate goal.. -Sarah On Sat, Aug 2, 2014 at 7:02 PM, Michael J. Lowrey orangem...@gmail.com wrote: That's exactly my point, Pine. This kind of inside-baseball geekery is so much Choctaw to the ordinary new editor we are trying to recruit and retain, people more likely to be using Pinterest or Skype or Ravelry to communicate with peers and mentors. On Sat, Aug 2, 2014 at 8:54 PM, Pine W wiki.p...@gmail.com wrote: You might be surprised how widely and how much Freenode is used for open source projects. The Blender main and dev channels were even more active than English Wikipedia's equivalents when I visited a few days ago. Pine On Aug 2, 2014 6:38 PM, Michael J. Lowrey orangem...@gmail.com wrote: IRC is almost embarrassingly old technology; Wikimedia Foundation projects are the only place I've seen it mentioned in the last five years or more. On Sat, Aug 2, 2014 at 7:29 PM, Pine W wiki.p...@gmail.com wrote: We already have #wikipedia-en-help which is remarkably good for a volunteer help project. Links to join that IRC channel could be offered in multiple places. Other languages may have similar channels. Pine On Aug 2, 2014 8:42 AM, Jeremy Baron jer...@tuxmachine.com wrote: On Aug 2, 2014 11:01 AM, LtPowers ltpowers_w...@rochester.rr.com wrote: And then there could be a little chat window allowing real-time communication while the editor walks through her first edit. [originally didn't realize who you were replying to… also haven't read the whole thread yet] That is technically feasible. Maybe would have new implications for privacy (including WMF privacy policy). Unless the realtime chats were publicly logged. (then same privacy as existing teahouse, etc) Essentially would be a more interactive version of teahouse? (i.e. shorter wait for a reply and you're paired with someone that's known to be available at that moment) would be a part of teahouse? How would you staff it? Shifts? Anyway, that does nothing for the case Kathleen describes. 25 people (20f:5m) in a class and everyone getting that introduction to all things wiki. Then 7 stay active for a year including all the men. (and only 2 of the 20 women) I'm leaning towards thinking we as a community should (for now) focus more on the retention gap than the recruitment gap. Then we're not recruiting people just to (mostly) lose them in a month or two. But would be interested to hear thoughts on that from someone with a more rigorous analysis. -Jeremy (jeremyb) P.S. http://www.onthemedia.org/story/31-race-swap-experiment/ ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap -- Michael J. Orange Mike Lowrey When I get a little money I buy books; and if any is left, I buy food and clothes. -- Desiderius Erasmus ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap -- Michael J. Orange Mike Lowrey When I get a little money I buy books; and if any is left, I buy food and clothes. -- Desiderius Erasmus ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap -- Sarah Stierch - Diverse and engaging consulting for your organization. www.sarahstierch.com ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
Re: [Gendergap] Sexualized environment on Commons
I think we are talking past each other. The issue I responded to was about live help, which we offer, is used extensively for English Wikipedia, and should be respected. Advertising the existing service to more editors is surely better than not doing so. If we are talking about longer-term alternative help systems then I agree that we should explore options like Pintrest which seem to be popular with less technical audiences. Pine On Aug 2, 2014 7:06 PM, Sarah Stierch sarah.stie...@gmail.com wrote: Exactly. IRC is for the old school and ubergeek. And as Sue has said in the past - we're only going to retain specific types of people to be long term editors (ubergeeks like us) but, if we can figure out a solution to help out the average joe/sphine editor... then huzzah. That's what the Teahouse helped do, but what is the next step to supporting people who haven't quite passed the barrier to editing Wikipedia. And expecting people to want to join the ranks through OTRS emails surely isn't the ultimate goal.. -Sarah On Sat, Aug 2, 2014 at 7:02 PM, Michael J. Lowrey orangem...@gmail.com wrote: That's exactly my point, Pine. This kind of inside-baseball geekery is so much Choctaw to the ordinary new editor we are trying to recruit and retain, people more likely to be using Pinterest or Skype or Ravelry to communicate with peers and mentors. On Sat, Aug 2, 2014 at 8:54 PM, Pine W wiki.p...@gmail.com wrote: You might be surprised how widely and how much Freenode is used for open source projects. The Blender main and dev channels were even more active than English Wikipedia's equivalents when I visited a few days ago. Pine On Aug 2, 2014 6:38 PM, Michael J. Lowrey orangem...@gmail.com wrote: IRC is almost embarrassingly old technology; Wikimedia Foundation projects are the only place I've seen it mentioned in the last five years or more. On Sat, Aug 2, 2014 at 7:29 PM, Pine W wiki.p...@gmail.com wrote: We already have #wikipedia-en-help which is remarkably good for a volunteer help project. Links to join that IRC channel could be offered in multiple places. Other languages may have similar channels. Pine On Aug 2, 2014 8:42 AM, Jeremy Baron jer...@tuxmachine.com wrote: On Aug 2, 2014 11:01 AM, LtPowers ltpowers_w...@rochester.rr.com wrote: And then there could be a little chat window allowing real-time communication while the editor walks through her first edit. [originally didn't realize who you were replying to… also haven't read the whole thread yet] That is technically feasible. Maybe would have new implications for privacy (including WMF privacy policy). Unless the realtime chats were publicly logged. (then same privacy as existing teahouse, etc) Essentially would be a more interactive version of teahouse? (i.e. shorter wait for a reply and you're paired with someone that's known to be available at that moment) would be a part of teahouse? How would you staff it? Shifts? Anyway, that does nothing for the case Kathleen describes. 25 people (20f:5m) in a class and everyone getting that introduction to all things wiki. Then 7 stay active for a year including all the men. (and only 2 of the 20 women) I'm leaning towards thinking we as a community should (for now) focus more on the retention gap than the recruitment gap. Then we're not recruiting people just to (mostly) lose them in a month or two. But would be interested to hear thoughts on that from someone with a more rigorous analysis. -Jeremy (jeremyb) P.S. http://www.onthemedia.org/story/31-race-swap-experiment/ ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap -- Michael J. Orange Mike Lowrey When I get a little money I buy books; and if any is left, I buy food and clothes. -- Desiderius Erasmus ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap -- Michael J. Orange Mike Lowrey When I get a little money I buy books; and if any is left, I buy food and clothes. -- Desiderius Erasmus ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap -- Sarah Stierch - Diverse and engaging consulting for your organization.
Re: [Gendergap] Sexualized environment on Commons
Thank you, Sarah. I hope that subjects like this will be part of the discussion in Washington, whether I get to go or not. (I have applied, but I'm an old white male so….) On Sat, Aug 2, 2014 at 9:06 PM, Sarah Stierch sarah.stie...@gmail.com wrote: Exactly. IRC is for the old school and ubergeek. And as Sue has said in the past - we're only going to retain specific types of people to be long term editors (ubergeeks like us) but, if we can figure out a solution to help out the average joe/sphine editor... then huzzah. That's what the Teahouse helped do, but what is the next step to supporting people who haven't quite passed the barrier to editing Wikipedia. And expecting people to want to join the ranks through OTRS emails surely isn't the ultimate goal.. -Sarah On Sat, Aug 2, 2014 at 7:02 PM, Michael J. Lowrey orangem...@gmail.com wrote: That's exactly my point, Pine. This kind of inside-baseball geekery is so much Choctaw to the ordinary new editor we are trying to recruit and retain, people more likely to be using Pinterest or Skype or Ravelry to communicate with peers and mentors. On Sat, Aug 2, 2014 at 8:54 PM, Pine W wiki.p...@gmail.com wrote: You might be surprised how widely and how much Freenode is used for open source projects. The Blender main and dev channels were even more active than English Wikipedia's equivalents when I visited a few days ago. Pine On Aug 2, 2014 6:38 PM, Michael J. Lowrey orangem...@gmail.com wrote: IRC is almost embarrassingly old technology; Wikimedia Foundation projects are the only place I've seen it mentioned in the last five years or more. On Sat, Aug 2, 2014 at 7:29 PM, Pine W wiki.p...@gmail.com wrote: We already have #wikipedia-en-help which is remarkably good for a volunteer help project. Links to join that IRC channel could be offered in multiple places. Other languages may have similar channels. Pine On Aug 2, 2014 8:42 AM, Jeremy Baron jer...@tuxmachine.com wrote: On Aug 2, 2014 11:01 AM, LtPowers ltpowers_w...@rochester.rr.com wrote: And then there could be a little chat window allowing real-time communication while the editor walks through her first edit. [originally didn't realize who you were replying to… also haven't read the whole thread yet] That is technically feasible. Maybe would have new implications for privacy (including WMF privacy policy). Unless the realtime chats were publicly logged. (then same privacy as existing teahouse, etc) Essentially would be a more interactive version of teahouse? (i.e. shorter wait for a reply and you're paired with someone that's known to be available at that moment) would be a part of teahouse? How would you staff it? Shifts? Anyway, that does nothing for the case Kathleen describes. 25 people (20f:5m) in a class and everyone getting that introduction to all things wiki. Then 7 stay active for a year including all the men. (and only 2 of the 20 women) I'm leaning towards thinking we as a community should (for now) focus more on the retention gap than the recruitment gap. Then we're not recruiting people just to (mostly) lose them in a month or two. But would be interested to hear thoughts on that from someone with a more rigorous analysis. -Jeremy (jeremyb) P.S. http://www.onthemedia.org/story/31-race-swap-experiment/ ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap -- Michael J. Orange Mike Lowrey When I get a little money I buy books; and if any is left, I buy food and clothes. -- Desiderius Erasmus ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap -- Michael J. Orange Mike Lowrey When I get a little money I buy books; and if any is left, I buy food and clothes. -- Desiderius Erasmus ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap -- Sarah Stierch - Diverse and engaging consulting for your organization. www.sarahstierch.com ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap -- Michael J. Orange Mike Lowrey When I get a little money I buy books;
Re: [Gendergap] Sexualized environment on Commons
There are plenty of people using IRC, but many of them don't know it. There are chatroom/IRC hybrids, generally on forum sites. You embed the chat window in a web page, and anyone can join in. Those who want can use any IRC client to get to the same channel, but with more features. http://www.irchighway.net/ http://mibbit.com/ Janine Sarah Stierch wrote: Exactly. IRC is for the old school and ubergeek. And as Sue has said in the past - we're only going to retain specific types of people to be long term editors (ubergeeks like us) but, if we can figure out a solution to help out the average joe/sphine editor... ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
