[Gendergap] Shining light on the gender gap by Twitter
Hey, I've been following this list for a while. I'm pretty sick of the constant sexism on Wikipedia, and depressed because it's not just a few users, but seen in the opinions and suggestions of so many. I've started a twitter account (https://twitter.com/SaidOnWP) to give some examples of what I think the most egregious things said are. This will probably upset some users, especially users that meant well, but many things that are said that are "well-meaning" have some offensive underlying ideas. I want to show the mass of evidence that sexism exists on WP in a venue where it doesn't have to be interrupted by users demanding proof. I know that this is more confrontational than some users will want, but I'm sick of the anti-interventionalist sentiment from different quarters in WP, with the attitude "oh! well it's up to what the community wants...!" This is a problem with the community and I hope to shed some light on it. I'm going to be posting things every day and have enough content planned for about a month, repost, send me examples or follow my twitter. I'm only posting content from this year, and include analyses, discussions, commentary and incidents. #saidonWP ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
Re: [Gendergap] Shining light on the gender gap by Twitter
The *#WhyIStayed hashtag shows also applies to this discussion. * On Tue, Sep 9, 2014 at 6:05 AM, Gender Gap wrote: > Hey, I've been following this list for a while. I'm pretty sick of the > constant sexism on Wikipedia, and depressed because it's not just a few > users, but seen in the opinions and suggestions of so many. I've started a > twitter account (https://twitter.com/SaidOnWP) to give some examples of > what I think the most egregious things said are. This will probably upset > some users, especially users that meant well, but many things that are said > that are "well-meaning" have some offensive underlying ideas. > > I want to show the mass of evidence that sexism exists on WP in a venue > where it doesn't have to be interrupted by users demanding proof. I know > that this is more confrontational than some users will want, but I'm sick > of the anti-interventionalist sentiment from different quarters in WP, with > the attitude "oh! well it's up to what the community wants...!" This is a > problem with the community and I hope to shed some light on it. > > I'm going to be posting things every day and have enough content planned > for about a month, repost, send me examples or follow my twitter. I'm only > posting content from this year, and include analyses, discussions, > commentary and incidents. > > #saidonWP > > ___ > Gendergap mailing list > Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap > > ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
[Gendergap] The Insane Double Standard for Women Working in Tech
This article is interesting and relevant to the gender gap issue on Wikipedia. Sydney The Insane Double Standard for Women Working in Tech http://www.inc.com/kimberly-weisul/insane-double-standard-for-tech-women.html ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
Re: [Gendergap] The Insane Double Standard for Women Working in Tech
Thanks! Lightbreather On Tue, Sep 9, 2014 at 11:52 AM, Sydney Poore wrote: > This article is interesting and relevant to the gender gap issue on > Wikipedia. > Sydney > > The Insane Double Standard for Women Working in Tech > > http://www.inc.com/kimberly-weisul/insane-double-standard-for-tech-women.html > > ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
Re: [Gendergap] The Insane Double Standard for Women Working in Tech
Here is a better article about in Fortune. http://fortune.com/2014/08/26/performance-review-gender-bias/ Sydney Sydney Poore User:FloNight Wikipedian in Residence at Cochrane Collaboration On Tue, Sep 9, 2014 at 2:52 PM, Sydney Poore wrote: > This article is interesting and relevant to the gender gap issue on > Wikipedia. > Sydney > > The Insane Double Standard for Women Working in Tech > > http://www.inc.com/kimberly-weisul/insane-double-standard-for-tech-women.html > ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
Re: [Gendergap] Shining light on the gender gap by Twitter
Frankly, given the hostility to the Gender Gap project, I have to wonder about this Hashtag effort. Lightbreather quoted some obnoxious guy statements a month ago out of her own account and was roundly criticized. Forum shopping and canvassing issues were raised while others applauded it. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Jimbo_Wales/Archive_170#Fed_up_with_the_status_quo... I personally wouldn't do it because the wrong Admin who was friends with people you quoted (or people who don't like you) probably would get you blocked for weeks or months at a time. So it could be a way to trap editors whose twitter accounts are somehow linked to their user names. I know at least one guy at an ANI got away with criticizing a woman editor on her editing at a number of off wiki-sites. But that doesn't mean any of us would get away with it. And this also can be turned about the Gender Gap Project "#GenderGapStupidity" or whatever. So unless there was some community consensus on an appropriate way to do this, I would tread carefully... CM On 9/9/2014 6:05 AM, Gender Gap wrote: Hey, I've been following this list for a while. I'm pretty sick of the constant sexism on Wikipedia, and depressed because it's not just a few users, but seen in the opinions and suggestions of so many. I've started a twitter account (https://twitter.com/SaidOnWP) to give some examples of what I think the most egregious things said are. This will probably upset some users, especially users that meant well, but many things that are said that are "well-meaning" have some offensive underlying ideas. I want to show the mass of evidence that sexism exists on WP in a venue where it doesn't have to be interrupted by users demanding proof. I know that this is more confrontational than some users will want, but I'm sick of the anti-interventionalist sentiment from different quarters in WP, with the attitude "oh! well it's up to what the community wants...!" This is a problem with the community and I hope to shed some light on it. I'm going to be posting things every day and have enough content planned for about a month, repost, send me examples or follow my twitter. I'm only posting content from this year, and include analyses, discussions, commentary and incidents. #saidonWP ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
[Gendergap] Result: WP:ANI on Disruption of Gender Gap Task Force; plus Arbitraition Denial
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/IncidentArchive853#Disruption_of_Wikiproject There will clearly never be a consensus for any administrative action to be taken with respect to this incident, therefore this discussion only continues to serve as a drama-generating time vampire. Both sides of the argument need to step back, take a deep breath, and act like rational adults. The editors that are alleging disruption need to realize that there is a difference between someone being uncivil/disruptive and someone simply disagreeing with your point of view. The editors who have been accused of disruption need to realize that while it is ok to disagree with someone's point of view, doing it in a brusque or rude manner will only make it less likely that the other side will actually consider your point of view, rather than simply focus on your attitude and ultimately end up in an entirely unproductive discussion like the one you see below here. In summary, no action will come of this discussion, and all of the involved parties here need to work this out amongst themselves like mature adults. +++ One editor was disgusted and requested an Arbitration which looks like it will be declined, which is preferred until we at least find out if these guys intend to keep it up. (I know my Wikihounder of the last year intends to and has been doing so.) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case#Gender_Gap_Task_Force_Issues +++ Despite the large number of individuals disgusted with the disruption, some Admins and Arbitrators refuse to take it seriously. Unfortunately, the only real solution is Electing Admins and Aribtrators against the Gender Gap. But who needs the grief?? CM ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
[Gendergap] Wikipedia and the war on women’s dignity
Wikipedia and the war on women’s dignity http://wikipediocracy.com/2014/09/07/wikipedia-and-the-war-on-womens-dignity/ This article mentions an individual who's caused problems at the Gender Gap task force. Off wiki sites engaging in outing is, like hashtags, a two edged sword. It can be used against truly problematic individuals who troll behind anonymity. But it also can be used against solid editors whose job or other situation necessitates anonymity but who have angered the wrong troll by trying to comply with policy. And the absurdities continue CM ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
Re: [Gendergap] Wikipedia and the war on women’s dignity
I don't think it's appropriate to use this list to link to pages that out other users. I understand your frustration with nothing onwiki getting done, Carol, I truly do, but part of the social contract of being a Wikipedian is that we're expected to not attack the "real lives" of other Wikipedians - even when we think they're terrible or totally wrong. On Tue, Sep 9, 2014 at 6:44 PM, Carol Moore dc wrote: > Wikipedia and the war on women’s dignity > > http://wikipediocracy.com/2014/09/07/wikipedia-and-the-war-on-womens-dignity/ > > This article mentions an individual who's caused problems at the Gender > Gap task force. > > Off wiki sites engaging in outing is, like hashtags, a two edged sword. > It can be used against truly problematic individuals who troll behind > anonymity. But it also can be used against solid editors whose job or > other situation necessitates anonymity but who have angered the wrong troll > by trying to comply with policy. > > And the absurdities continue > > CM > > > > ___ > Gendergap mailing list > Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap > > ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
Re: [Gendergap] Shining light on the gender gap by Twitter
I'm going to keep at it, for now. Honestly, I'm tired of it being a mostly internally discussed problem... Perhaps I'll change my mind at some point, but that's my thinking on it at this time. Lightbreather On Tue, Sep 9, 2014 at 3:21 PM, Carol Moore dc wrote: > Frankly, given the hostility to the Gender Gap project, I have to wonder > about this Hashtag effort. > > Lightbreather quoted some obnoxious guy statements a month ago out of her > own account and was roundly criticized. Forum shopping and canvassing > issues were raised while others applauded it. See > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Jimbo_Wales/Archive_170#Fed_up_with_the_status_quo > ... > > I personally wouldn't do it because the wrong Admin who was friends with > people you quoted (or people who don't like you) probably would get you > blocked for weeks or months at a time. So it could be a way to trap editors > whose twitter accounts are somehow linked to their user names. > > I know at least one guy at an ANI got away with criticizing a woman editor > on her editing at a number of off wiki-sites. But that doesn't mean any of > us would get away with it. > > And this also can be turned about the Gender Gap Project > "#GenderGapStupidity" or whatever. > > So unless there was some community consensus on an appropriate way to do > this, I would tread carefully... > > CM > > ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
