Re: [VOTE] Release Apache XTable (Incubating) 0.1.0-incubating
Thank you all for the valuable feedback, and apologies for dropping the ball on this. I should have been more diligent despite the WIP disclaimer, I did not fully understand the implications. Since those artifacts have already been published to Maven Central and cannot be removed, what would be the best way to proceed? Here is a possible plan: 1) Exclude xtable-utilities module from the release process as Ryan suggested (I'll start a discussion immediately on the XTable dev list about this), 2) Release a new version as soon as possible, addressing any possible additional license issues in other modules, and 3) Make sure the licensing issue with the already released artifacts is clearly communicated in the new version release notes, release announcements on the mailing lists, and project website. Does this approach sound reasonable? Other suggestions? Thanks, Jesús On Thu, Sep 12, 2024 at 12:47 PM rdb...@gmail.com wrote: > Good point Justin about the importance of checking for problematic > licenses. > That fat jar is 600Mb and includes the kitchen sink in terms of classes. > > One set of classes is from OpenJDK JOL and this is GPL-2.0 licensed. > > This seems like a big problem to me, especially because the artifact has > already been uploaded to maven central. Downstream users could accidentally > include or distribute GPL code by using and redistributing Apache XTable. > > XTable may also need to be dual licensed because of 2.b) in the GPL-2.0 > (the copyleft part): > > You must cause any work that you distribute or publish, that in whole or in > part contains or is derived from the Program or any part thereof, to be > licensed as a whole at no charge to all third parties *under the terms of > this License*. > > My interpretation of the incubator disclaimer is not that we can make > releases without attempting to produce license documentation -- that > doesn't change the consequences of distributing GPL code. It means that we > (the IPMC) have not fully checked and verified the license documentation. > Given the risks to people using ASF software, I don’t think it is at all > safe to make releases without due diligence here. > > Ryan > > On Thu, Sep 12, 2024 at 2:23 AM Justin Mclean > wrote: > > > Hi, > > > > > Thanks for sharing LEGAL-469 Justin. I have seen it at some point but > > > as time passed I forgot its existence. > > > > > > The DISCLAIMER-WIP contains the following snippet: > > > Some of the incubating project’s releases may not be fully compliant > > > with ASF policy. For example, releases may have incomplete or > > > un-reviewed licensing conditions. What follows is a list of issues the > > > project is currently aware of (this list is likely to be incomplete): > > > List of known issues goes here > > > > > > I didn't perform a thorough license check cause it was implied by the > > > disclaimer that this rather OK for this type of release. If we need to > > > check for all licenses involved then I don't see much point in having > > > this WIP file. > > > > As the WIP disclaimer states, "List of known issues goes here”, so you > > need to know (in general) what the issues are, particularly if they are > > Category X related the users need to be aware of those. It doesn't need > to > > be perfect, as it's an incubating project, but you should still do a > basic > > check. > > > > Kind Regards, > > Justin > > - > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org > > For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org > > > > >
Re: [VOTE] Release Apache XTable (Incubating) 0.1.0-incubating
+1 jcamacho (IPMC/PPMC), carried over from XTable dev mailing list [1] Thanks, Jesús [1] https://lists.apache.org/thread/klqwmx814bph19fn2ypwsbgorzb776h1 On Wed, Sep 11, 2024 at 12:59 AM PJ Fanning wrote: > +1 binding fanningpj (IPMC) > > * file downloads > * sha512 and asc are ok > * incubating and apache in name > * LICENSE, NOTICE, DISCLAIMER-WIP present > * Apache license headers in source files > * no unexpected binaries > * compiles from source - tests take lots of CPU and I had to cancel > them but that might be just my machine > > On Wed, 11 Sept 2024 at 08:35, Stamatis Zampetakis > wrote: > > > > +1 zabetak (IPMC/PPMC) carried over from the dev list. > > > > Best, > > Stamatis > > > > On Wed, Sep 11, 2024 at 7:16 AM Vinish Reddy wrote: > > > > > > Hey everyone, > > > > > > Apache XTable (incubating) has recently published its first incubating > > > release after a successful vote in the dev list. However, the podling > > > missed starting a vote in general@incubator. IPMC members recommended > > > removing the downloads page from the website [1] and starting a VOTE > thread > > > in general@incubator [2]. > > > > > > We now kindly request the Incubator PMC members review and vote on this > > > incubator release. > > > > > > Apache XTable community vote thread: > > > https://lists.apache.org/thread/gl8xs904dnz6bbnx7dn0rwd35zs0gr4b > > > > > > Vote result thread: > > > https://lists.apache.org/thread/k2bcxbf23pmb43g46o5gzqf9bv1pkggz > > > > > > The release candidates: > > > > https://dist.apache.org/repos/dist/dev/incubator/xtable/0.1.0-incubating-rc4/ > > > > https://dist.apache.org/repos/dist/release/incubator/xtable/0.1.0-incubating/ > > > > > > Release notes: > > > > https://github.com/apache/incubator-xtable/releases/tag/0.1.0-incubating > > > > > > Git tag for the release: > > > > https://github.com/apache/incubator-xtable/releases/tag/0.1.0-incubating > > > > > > Git commit ID for the release: > > > > https://github.com/apache/incubator-xtable/commit/9711bf1599eb2a69c0f094a45450f5638a189428 > > > > > > Keys to verify the Release Candidate: > > > https://downloads.apache.org/incubator/xtable/KEYS > > > > > > To compile from the source, please refer to: > > > https://github.com/apache/incubator-xtable/blob/main/README.md > > > > > > The vote will be open for at least 72 hours or until the necessary > number > > > of votes is reached. Please vote accordingly: > > > > > > [ ] +1 approve > > > > > > [ ] +0 no opinion > > > > > > [ ] -1 disapprove with the reason > > > > > > > > > [1] https://xtable.apache.org/ > > > [2] https://lists.apache.org/thread/q3o2qr64k2bwwyd1hd79y43q12vwgh85 > > > > > > Thanks, > > > Vinish > > > > - > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org > > For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org > > > > - > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org > For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org > >
Re: [VOTE] Accept Polaris into the ASF Incubator
+1 (binding) Thanks, Jesús On Tue, Aug 6, 2024 at 3:12 AM Huajie Wang wrote: > +1 (non-binding) > > > Best, > Huajie Wang > > > > Jinsong Zhou 于2024年8月6日周二 14:19写道： > > > +1 (non-binding) > > > > Best, > > Jinsong > > > > On Tue, Aug 6, 2024 at 2:09 PM Yu Xiao wrote: > > > > > +1 (binding) > > > > > > Charles Zhang 于2024年8月6日周二 10:07写道： > > > > > > > > +1 (binding), good luck. > > > > > > > > > > > > Best wishes, > > > > Charles Zhang > > > > from Apache InLong > > > > > > > > > > > > hulk 于2024年8月6日周二 10:05写道： > > > > > > > > > +1 binding > > > > > > > > > > On Tue, 6 Aug 2024 at 04:14, Ashvin A wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > +1 (non-binding) > > > > > > > > > > > > Best, > > > > > > Ashvin > > > > > > > > > > > > On Mon, Aug 5, 2024 at 9:05 AM Tyler Akidau > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > +1 (non-binding) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -Tyler > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 2024/08/02 17:26:20 Jean-Baptiste Onofré wrote: > > > > > > > > Hi folks, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Following the discussion about Polaris > > > > > > > > ( > > > https://lists.apache.org/thread/ymz26dr3bzldbntdgpctbtkb787x311d), > > > > > > > > and after updating the proposal based on comments, I would > like > > > to > > > > > > > > start the formal vote to accept Polaris into the ASF > Incubator. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As reminder, this is the Polaris Proposal: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/INCUBATOR/PolarisProposal > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Please cast your vote: > > > > > > > > [ ] +1, accept Polaris into the ASF Incubator > > > > > > > > [ ] 0, I don't care either way > > > > > > > > [ ] -1, do not accept Polaris into the ASF Incubator, because > > ... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The vote will run for one week starting from today. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks ! > > > > > > > > Regards > > > > > > > > JB > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: > > general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org > > > > > > > > For additional commands, e-mail: > > > general-h...@incubator.apache.org > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: > general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org > > > > > > > For additional commands, e-mail: > > general-h...@incubator.apache.org > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > Best Regards, > > > > > - *Hulk Lin* > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org > > > For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org > > > > > > > > >
Re: [VOTE] Accept Gluten Into the ASF Incubator
+1 (binding) Thanks, Jesús On Tue, Jan 9, 2024 at 5:23 PM Markus Weimer wrote: > +1 (binding) > > Happy coding and good luck! > > Markus > > On Sun, Jan 7, 2024 at 8:55 PM Xiaoqiao He wrote: > > > > +1 (binding) > > > > Best Regards, > > - He Xiaoqiao > > > > On Sun, Jan 7, 2024 at 5:39 PM Nicholas Jiang > > wrote: > > > > > +1 (non-binding) > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > Nicholas Jiang > > > At 2024-01-04 10:47:41, "ShaoFeng Shi" wrote: > > > >Hi Incubator, > > > > > > > >Following the discussion [DISCUSS] Gluten proposal[1], > > > >I am starting this official vote for the Gluten project. > > > > > > > >Here is their proposal: > > > >https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/INCUBATOR/GlutenProposal > > > > > > > >Please cast your vote: > > > > > > > >[ ] +1, bring into the Incubator > > > >[ ] +0, I don't care either way > > > >[ ] -1, do not bring Gluten into the Incubator, because... > > > > > > > >The vote will open for one week from today. > > > > > > > >[1] https://lists.apache.org/thread/xgsm75t721vgnlthgy84909ggqok77j4 > > > > > > > >Best regards, > > > > > > > >Shaofeng Shi 史少锋 > > > >Apache Kylin PMC member, > > > >Apache Incubator PMC member, > > > >Email: shaofeng...@apache.org > > > > > - > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org > For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org > >
[RESULT][VOTE] Accept XTable into the Apache Incubator
Hi All, Thanks to everyone who participated in the vote [1]. The vote is now closed, and it has passed with 13 binding +1, 6 non-binding +1, and no 0 or -1 votes. +1 binding votes: Jesús Camacho Rodríguez (jcamacho) Jean-Baptiste Onofré (jbonofre) Stamatis Zampetakis (zabetak) Julian Hyde (jhyde) Furkan Kamaci (kamaci) Hitesh Shah (hitesh) Ayush Saxena (ayushsaxena) Ismaël Mejía (iemejia) Jacques Nadeau (jacques) Rakesh Radhakrishnan (rakeshr) Larry McCay (lmccay) PJ Fanning (fanningpj) Carl Steinbach (cws) +1 non-binding votes: Ashvin Agrawal Twice Austin Bennett Xuanwo vin jake roryqi Thanks, Jesús [1] https://lists.apache.org/thread/o95w6ggwjdodjoyb6gwv7vpvl3fvsdvd
[VOTE] Accept XTable into the ASF Incubator
Hi All, Following the discussion in the incubator mailing list [1], I am starting this official vote for the XTable project. Here is the proposal - https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/INCUBATOR/XTable+Proposal Please cast your vote: [ ] +1, bring XTable into the Incubator [ ] +0, I don't care either way [ ] -1, do not bring XTable into the Incubator, because... This majority vote is open for at least 96 hours (due to the weekend). Only votes from Incubator PMC members are binding, but other votes are welcome! Thanks, Jesús [1] https://lists.apache.org/thread/rx9z8ffrf37qjhpkf1vp5rqg5lhht7jm
Re: [DISCUSS] OneTable proposal
Thanks, Carl. Thanks also to all others that have chimed in expressing their support, asking questions, and providing feedback. I'll be starting the vote shortly. -Jesús On Fri, Dec 15, 2023 at 7:32 PM Carl Steinbach wrote: > Please go ahead with the vote. > > On Fri, Dec 15, 2023 at 6:13 PM Jesus Camacho Rodriguez < > jcama...@apache.org> > wrote: > > > Hi Carl, > > > > Your last message did not provide many details and we have not heard back > > from you after a day; I'd appreciate any updates or insights into > > your thought process that you could share. > > > > As JB mentioned, I see no reason to delay the vote to move into > incubation. > > Community growth is one of the main goals during incubation and I think > it > > is important to keep things progressing at this stage. (In addition, as > > mentioned earlier in the thread, we have conducted a lot of outreach, I'd > > say over and above what a typical project entering the ASF incubator > would > > do, which is also reflected in the initial list of committers.) > > > > Thanks, > > Jesús > > > > On Fri, Dec 15, 2023 at 10:00 AM Ashvin A wrote: > > > > > Hi All, > > > > > > +1 to JB's points. Thanks Jesus for steering this discussion. > > > I wholeheartedly support XTable. The potential of this initiative is > > > immense, especially considering feedback from storage formats users and > > the > > > benchmark we've been developing. > > > I'm eagerly looking forward to collaborating with all who have > committed > > to > > > this project, as well as those in the pipeline and keeping an eye on > our > > > progress. > > > I appreciate everyone's support and valuable feedback. > > > > > > Best, > > > Ashvin > > > > > > On Fri, Dec 15, 2023 at 1:24 AM Jean-Baptiste Onofré > > > wrote: > > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > > > I think that's also the purpose of the incubation to grow the > > > > community, both users community but also dev communities. > > > > So, I don't see a blocker for incubation but more for graduation. > > > > > > > > I would start with the initial committer list with the target to grow > > > > during incubation, including people from other projects (Iceberg, > > > > Hudi, Paimon, ...). > > > > > > > > Regards > > > > JB > > > > > > > > On Thu, Dec 14, 2023 at 5:06 AM Jesus Camacho Rodriguez > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Carl, thanks for chiming in. > > > > > > > > > > Certainly, let me address that part. > > > > > > > > > > Concerning the initial list of committers: While the project > > originated > > > > > from Onehouse (a company whose offering is powered by Apache Hudi), > > > it's > > > > > important to highlight that there has been an effort to have an > > initial > > > > > list of committers that work for a diverse range of companies > > invested > > > in > > > > > different table formats, including Onehouse (4 committers), > Microsoft > > > > (2), > > > > > Google (1), Walmart (1), Adobe (1), Cloudera (1), and Dremio (1). I > > > > believe > > > > > this diversity dispels the notion of a lack of representation or an > > > > > outsized influence from a single group in the community. > > > > > > > > > > Regarding outreach to other communities: As part of the incubation > > > > > proposal, we extended invitations to participate in this discussion > > and > > > > > contribute to the project to members of the communities of the most > > > > popular > > > > > OSS table formats [1][2][3][4]. Responses generally fell into four > > > > > categories (including some private responses): (1) Positive > > reception, > > > > > interest in the proposal/vision, and/or thinking about engaging > > once/if > > > > the > > > > > project is in the ASF. (2) Technical/feasibility questions, which > we > > > > > encouraged them to ask on Github since that is our current > > > communication > > > > > platform in the XTable project. (3) No response received. (4) > > > > Disagreement, > > > > > we should all adopt specific format z. I
Re: [DISCUSS] OneTable proposal
Hi Carl, Your last message did not provide many details and we have not heard back from you after a day; I'd appreciate any updates or insights into your thought process that you could share. As JB mentioned, I see no reason to delay the vote to move into incubation. Community growth is one of the main goals during incubation and I think it is important to keep things progressing at this stage. (In addition, as mentioned earlier in the thread, we have conducted a lot of outreach, I'd say over and above what a typical project entering the ASF incubator would do, which is also reflected in the initial list of committers.) Thanks, Jesús On Fri, Dec 15, 2023 at 10:00 AM Ashvin A wrote: > Hi All, > > +1 to JB's points. Thanks Jesus for steering this discussion. > I wholeheartedly support XTable. The potential of this initiative is > immense, especially considering feedback from storage formats users and the > benchmark we've been developing. > I'm eagerly looking forward to collaborating with all who have committed to > this project, as well as those in the pipeline and keeping an eye on our > progress. > I appreciate everyone's support and valuable feedback. > > Best, > Ashvin > > On Fri, Dec 15, 2023 at 1:24 AM Jean-Baptiste Onofré > wrote: > > > Hi, > > > > I think that's also the purpose of the incubation to grow the > > community, both users community but also dev communities. > > So, I don't see a blocker for incubation but more for graduation. > > > > I would start with the initial committer list with the target to grow > > during incubation, including people from other projects (Iceberg, > > Hudi, Paimon, ...). > > > > Regards > > JB > > > > On Thu, Dec 14, 2023 at 5:06 AM Jesus Camacho Rodriguez > > wrote: > > > > > > Carl, thanks for chiming in. > > > > > > Certainly, let me address that part. > > > > > > Concerning the initial list of committers: While the project originated > > > from Onehouse (a company whose offering is powered by Apache Hudi), > it's > > > important to highlight that there has been an effort to have an initial > > > list of committers that work for a diverse range of companies invested > in > > > different table formats, including Onehouse (4 committers), Microsoft > > (2), > > > Google (1), Walmart (1), Adobe (1), Cloudera (1), and Dremio (1). I > > believe > > > this diversity dispels the notion of a lack of representation or an > > > outsized influence from a single group in the community. > > > > > > Regarding outreach to other communities: As part of the incubation > > > proposal, we extended invitations to participate in this discussion and > > > contribute to the project to members of the communities of the most > > popular > > > OSS table formats [1][2][3][4]. Responses generally fell into four > > > categories (including some private responses): (1) Positive reception, > > > interest in the proposal/vision, and/or thinking about engaging once/if > > the > > > project is in the ASF. (2) Technical/feasibility questions, which we > > > encouraged them to ask on Github since that is our current > communication > > > platform in the XTable project. (3) No response received. (4) > > Disagreement, > > > we should all adopt specific format z. It's important to acknowledge > the > > > diversity in these communities and recognize that interest on XTable / > > > opinions on XTable's viability vary. > > > > > > Some additional thoughts: I believe everyone involved in XTable is > > > genuinely working towards making the right decisions for the project > and > > > they are demonstrating good faith, e.g., hopefully evident in the > prompt > > > response to the project's name change when concerns were raised. The > goal > > > is to create a vendor-neutral project with a thriving, inclusive > > community. > > > In my view, given the current list of initial committers, there is no > > lack > > > of diversity, and including other committers from table format > > communities > > > does not address the remaining concern about the project, which stems > > from > > > the fact that it actually originated in a company backing one of the > > table > > > format projects, i.e., Apache Hudi. > > > Instead, I'd argue it's more important to focus on establishing XTable > as > > > an independent project governed by ASF's meritocracy princip
Re: [DISCUSS] OneTable proposal
Carl and others, thanks for the feedback. If you have any remaining questions or concerns, please let me know. I just want to make sure they are all addressed before we start the vote thread --- planning to begin later today if possible. -Jesús On Wed, Dec 13, 2023 at 8:06 PM Jesus Camacho Rodriguez wrote: > Carl, thanks for chiming in. > > Certainly, let me address that part. > > Concerning the initial list of committers: While the project originated > from Onehouse (a company whose offering is powered by Apache Hudi), it's > important to highlight that there has been an effort to have an initial > list of committers that work for a diverse range of companies invested in > different table formats, including Onehouse (4 committers), Microsoft (2), > Google (1), Walmart (1), Adobe (1), Cloudera (1), and Dremio (1). I believe > this diversity dispels the notion of a lack of representation or an > outsized influence from a single group in the community. > > Regarding outreach to other communities: As part of the incubation > proposal, we extended invitations to participate in this discussion and > contribute to the project to members of the communities of the most popular > OSS table formats [1][2][3][4]. Responses generally fell into four > categories (including some private responses): (1) Positive reception, > interest in the proposal/vision, and/or thinking about engaging once/if the > project is in the ASF. (2) Technical/feasibility questions, which we > encouraged them to ask on Github since that is our current communication > platform in the XTable project. (3) No response received. (4) Disagreement, > we should all adopt specific format z. It's important to acknowledge the > diversity in these communities and recognize that interest on XTable / > opinions on XTable's viability vary. > > Some additional thoughts: I believe everyone involved in XTable is > genuinely working towards making the right decisions for the project and > they are demonstrating good faith, e.g., hopefully evident in the prompt > response to the project's name change when concerns were raised. The goal > is to create a vendor-neutral project with a thriving, inclusive community. > In my view, given the current list of initial committers, there is no lack > of diversity, and including other committers from table format communities > does not address the remaining concern about the project, which stems from > the fact that it actually originated in a company backing one of the table > format projects, i.e., Apache Hudi. > Instead, I'd argue it's more important to focus on establishing XTable as > an independent project governed by ASF's meritocracy principles. That will > naturally serve as an invitation for individuals to contribute, become > committers, PPMC/PMC members, etc. While we are still in the very early > stages of that journey, I believe that focusing on these principles and > building the XTable community around them is ultimately the way to mitigate > the remaining concern. > > Thanks, > Jesús > > > [1] Apache Paimon (incubating): > https://lists.apache.org/thread/t29ghx79cp2rlw20s9p0b8o86c5lzgk7 > [2] Apache Iceberg: > https://lists.apache.org/thread/lwlrscyklkxqmp28pbxpxko9r1vw4s4z > [3] Apache Hudi: > https://lists.apache.org/thread/3415j1lyp8nkgdv8sk378y8hvvmrt248 > [4] Delta Lake: https://groups.google.com/g/delta-users/c/8btY3qHydwE > > > On Wed, Dec 13, 2023 at 3:04 PM Carl Steinbach > wrote: > >> Hi Jesús, >> >> This is a great project, and I am eager to see it added to the incubator. >> >> It's great to see that the naming issue is being addressed, but could you >> also respond to the other concern Jacques raised about the need to broaden >> the list of initial committers to include members of the Iceberg and Delta >> communities? >> >> Thanks. >> >> - Carl >> >> On Mon, Dec 11, 2023 at 5:08 PM Jesus Camacho Rodriguez < >> jcama...@apache.org> >> wrote: >> >> > Thanks to everyone who expressed support and offered help. It's great to >> > see that the project's mission resonates with so many different people. >> > >> > Jacques, we acknowledge your concern about the project name. We are >> working >> > on selecting a new name for ASF incubation that avoids confusion with >> any >> > specific corporation or product in the space. Currently we are doing >> some >> > due diligence to minimize the risk of having to change it again during >> > incubation; we'll update the proposal with the new name soon and share >> it >> > in this thread. >> > >> >
Re: [DISCUSS] OneTable proposal
Carl, thanks for chiming in. Certainly, let me address that part. Concerning the initial list of committers: While the project originated from Onehouse (a company whose offering is powered by Apache Hudi), it's important to highlight that there has been an effort to have an initial list of committers that work for a diverse range of companies invested in different table formats, including Onehouse (4 committers), Microsoft (2), Google (1), Walmart (1), Adobe (1), Cloudera (1), and Dremio (1). I believe this diversity dispels the notion of a lack of representation or an outsized influence from a single group in the community. Regarding outreach to other communities: As part of the incubation proposal, we extended invitations to participate in this discussion and contribute to the project to members of the communities of the most popular OSS table formats [1][2][3][4]. Responses generally fell into four categories (including some private responses): (1) Positive reception, interest in the proposal/vision, and/or thinking about engaging once/if the project is in the ASF. (2) Technical/feasibility questions, which we encouraged them to ask on Github since that is our current communication platform in the XTable project. (3) No response received. (4) Disagreement, we should all adopt specific format z. It's important to acknowledge the diversity in these communities and recognize that interest on XTable / opinions on XTable's viability vary. Some additional thoughts: I believe everyone involved in XTable is genuinely working towards making the right decisions for the project and they are demonstrating good faith, e.g., hopefully evident in the prompt response to the project's name change when concerns were raised. The goal is to create a vendor-neutral project with a thriving, inclusive community. In my view, given the current list of initial committers, there is no lack of diversity, and including other committers from table format communities does not address the remaining concern about the project, which stems from the fact that it actually originated in a company backing one of the table format projects, i.e., Apache Hudi. Instead, I'd argue it's more important to focus on establishing XTable as an independent project governed by ASF's meritocracy principles. That will naturally serve as an invitation for individuals to contribute, become committers, PPMC/PMC members, etc. While we are still in the very early stages of that journey, I believe that focusing on these principles and building the XTable community around them is ultimately the way to mitigate the remaining concern. Thanks, Jesús [1] Apache Paimon (incubating): https://lists.apache.org/thread/t29ghx79cp2rlw20s9p0b8o86c5lzgk7 [2] Apache Iceberg: https://lists.apache.org/thread/lwlrscyklkxqmp28pbxpxko9r1vw4s4z [3] Apache Hudi: https://lists.apache.org/thread/3415j1lyp8nkgdv8sk378y8hvvmrt248 [4] Delta Lake: https://groups.google.com/g/delta-users/c/8btY3qHydwE On Wed, Dec 13, 2023 at 3:04 PM Carl Steinbach wrote: > Hi Jesús, > > This is a great project, and I am eager to see it added to the incubator. > > It's great to see that the naming issue is being addressed, but could you > also respond to the other concern Jacques raised about the need to broaden > the list of initial committers to include members of the Iceberg and Delta > communities? > > Thanks. > > - Carl > > On Mon, Dec 11, 2023 at 5:08 PM Jesus Camacho Rodriguez < > jcama...@apache.org> > wrote: > > > Thanks to everyone who expressed support and offered help. It's great to > > see that the project's mission resonates with so many different people. > > > > Jacques, we acknowledge your concern about the project name. We are > working > > on selecting a new name for ASF incubation that avoids confusion with any > > specific corporation or product in the space. Currently we are doing some > > due diligence to minimize the risk of having to change it again during > > incubation; we'll update the proposal with the new name soon and share it > > in this thread. > > > > Regarding the name-changing process and your concerns about it, we're > > looking for advice based on past experiences. Specifically, we're > > considering whether it's better to change the project's name before > pushing > > the code to the ASF, or if it's more practical to push the code to the > ASF > > repository first and then proceed with the name change. Any insights or > > guidance on whether one option is better than the other based on previous > > instances would be appreciated. > > > > Thanks, > > Jesús > > > > > > > > On Mon, Dec 11, 2023 at 5:43 AM Jean-Baptiste Onofré < > jbono...@apache.org> > > wro
Re: [DISCUSS] OneTable proposal
The package would be xtable. As for the pronunciation, I was pronouncing it as "eks table"... But it's not something that has been discussed, I assume we are leaving it to the interpretation of the reader for the time being :) -Jesús On Wed, Dec 13, 2023 at 10:54 AM Julian Hyde wrote: > Pronounced “eks table” I presume, and not “cross table” or “times table”? > The Java package prefix would be org.apache.xtable, not x_table. > > (It’s good to check. I’m still traumatized whenever I have to say > “PostgreSQL” out loud.) > > Julian > > > On Dec 13, 2023, at 7:13 AM, Jean-Baptiste Onofré > wrote: > > > > Hi Jesus > > > > Yes, we first have to trigger the vote to accept XTable into the > > incubator. As soon as the vote pass (hopefully), we have to trigger > > the name search. > > > > Regards > > JB > > > >> On Wed, Dec 13, 2023 at 4:06 PM Jesus Camacho Rodriguez > >> wrote: > >> > >> Thanks JB. Based on the guidelines described here [1], I was going to > run > >> the name search process for XTable after the project is accepted for > >> incubation, but before we start to request resources. > >> > >> -Jesús > >> > >> [1] https://www.apache.org/foundation/marks/naming.html#startsearch > >> > >> On Wed, Dec 13, 2023 at 2:02 AM Jean-Baptiste Onofré > >> wrote: > >> > >>> Thanks Jesus > >>> > >>> XTable sounds good but we need a name search anyway to be sure it's > >>> suitable. > >>> > >>> Regards > >>> JB > >>> > >>> On Wed, Dec 13, 2023 at 4:30 AM Jesus Camacho Rodriguez > >>> wrote: > >>>> > >>>> I've updated the proposal with the new name: XTable. You can review it > >>>> here: > >>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/INCUBATOR/XTable+Proposal > >>>> (please also see _Project Name_ subsection) > >>>> > >>>> We hope this change addresses the concern that was raised during this > >>>> discussion, helping to convey a message of neutrality to anyone > >>> interested > >>>> in contributing to the project. > >>>> > >>>> We look forward to hearing from you soon. If there are no further > >>> concerns, > >>>> we would love to move forward with the VOTE as soon as possible. > >>>> > >>>> -Jesús > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> On Mon, Dec 11, 2023 at 10:09 PM Jesus Camacho Rodriguez < > >>>> jcama...@apache.org> wrote: > >>>> > >>>>> Thanks Julian. I was mainly considering the code, but, as you > >>> mentioned, > >>>>> it's probably not the primary concern. The current proposal aligns > with > >>>>> your feedback: The project will go through the vote (and hopefully be > >>>>> accepted into the incubator) using the new name, so all the infra and > >>>>> project setup can be done (hopefully) only once. > >>>>> > >>>>> -Jesús > >>>>> > >>>>> On Mon, Dec 11, 2023 at 5:29 PM Julian Hyde > >>>>> wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>>> Much easier to change the name before incubation. It’s not so much > >>> code > >>>>>> as all the infrastructure (mailing lists, git repos, web servers, > svn > >>>>>> files, …) that goes along with a podling. It’s a lot of work for > >>> INFRA and > >>>>>> for the PPMC/champion. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Also, branding. Calcite entered incubation as ‘Optiq’ and then > >>> renamed, > >>>>>> but not before it had appeared in a few conference talks; people are > >>> still > >>>>>> asking me ‘What happened to Optiq?' > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Julian > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>>> On Dec 11, 2023, at 5:08 PM, Jesus Camacho Rodriguez < > >>>>>> jcama...@apache.org> wrote: > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Thanks to everyone who expressed support and offered help. It's > >>> great to > >>>>>>> see that the project's mission resonates with so many different > >>> people. >
Re: [DISCUSS] OneTable proposal
Thanks JB. Based on the guidelines described here [1], I was going to run the name search process for XTable after the project is accepted for incubation, but before we start to request resources. -Jesús [1] https://www.apache.org/foundation/marks/naming.html#startsearch On Wed, Dec 13, 2023 at 2:02 AM Jean-Baptiste Onofré wrote: > Thanks Jesus > > XTable sounds good but we need a name search anyway to be sure it's > suitable. > > Regards > JB > > On Wed, Dec 13, 2023 at 4:30 AM Jesus Camacho Rodriguez > wrote: > > > > I've updated the proposal with the new name: XTable. You can review it > > here: > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/INCUBATOR/XTable+Proposal > > (please also see _Project Name_ subsection) > > > > We hope this change addresses the concern that was raised during this > > discussion, helping to convey a message of neutrality to anyone > interested > > in contributing to the project. > > > > We look forward to hearing from you soon. If there are no further > concerns, > > we would love to move forward with the VOTE as soon as possible. > > > > -Jesús > > > > > > > > On Mon, Dec 11, 2023 at 10:09 PM Jesus Camacho Rodriguez < > > jcama...@apache.org> wrote: > > > > > Thanks Julian. I was mainly considering the code, but, as you > mentioned, > > > it's probably not the primary concern. The current proposal aligns with > > > your feedback: The project will go through the vote (and hopefully be > > > accepted into the incubator) using the new name, so all the infra and > > > project setup can be done (hopefully) only once. > > > > > > -Jesús > > > > > > On Mon, Dec 11, 2023 at 5:29 PM Julian Hyde > > > wrote: > > > > > >> Much easier to change the name before incubation. It’s not so much > code > > >> as all the infrastructure (mailing lists, git repos, web servers, svn > > >> files, …) that goes along with a podling. It’s a lot of work for > INFRA and > > >> for the PPMC/champion. > > >> > > >> Also, branding. Calcite entered incubation as ‘Optiq’ and then > renamed, > > >> but not before it had appeared in a few conference talks; people are > still > > >> asking me ‘What happened to Optiq?' > > >> > > >> Julian > > >> > > >> > > >> > On Dec 11, 2023, at 5:08 PM, Jesus Camacho Rodriguez < > > >> jcama...@apache.org> wrote: > > >> > > > >> > Thanks to everyone who expressed support and offered help. It's > great to > > >> > see that the project's mission resonates with so many different > people. > > >> > > > >> > Jacques, we acknowledge your concern about the project name. We are > > >> working > > >> > on selecting a new name for ASF incubation that avoids confusion > with > > >> any > > >> > specific corporation or product in the space. Currently we are doing > > >> some > > >> > due diligence to minimize the risk of having to change it again > during > > >> > incubation; we'll update the proposal with the new name soon and > share > > >> it > > >> > in this thread. > > >> > > > >> > Regarding the name-changing process and your concerns about it, > we're > > >> > looking for advice based on past experiences. Specifically, we're > > >> > considering whether it's better to change the project's name before > > >> pushing > > >> > the code to the ASF, or if it's more practical to push the code to > the > > >> ASF > > >> > repository first and then proceed with the name change. Any > insights or > > >> > guidance on whether one option is better than the other based on > > >> previous > > >> > instances would be appreciated. > > >> > > > >> > Thanks, > > >> > Jesús > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > On Mon, Dec 11, 2023 at 5:43 AM Jean-Baptiste Onofré < > > >> jbono...@apache.org> > > >> > wrote: > > >> > > > >> >> Of course, it's a big +1 one for me. > > >> >> > > >> >> The purpose is interesting, creating "connection" with other Apache > > >> >> projects. > > >>
Re: [DISCUSS] OneTable proposal
I've updated the proposal with the new name: XTable. You can review it here: https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/INCUBATOR/XTable+Proposal (please also see _Project Name_ subsection) We hope this change addresses the concern that was raised during this discussion, helping to convey a message of neutrality to anyone interested in contributing to the project. We look forward to hearing from you soon. If there are no further concerns, we would love to move forward with the VOTE as soon as possible. -Jesús On Mon, Dec 11, 2023 at 10:09 PM Jesus Camacho Rodriguez < jcama...@apache.org> wrote: > Thanks Julian. I was mainly considering the code, but, as you mentioned, > it's probably not the primary concern. The current proposal aligns with > your feedback: The project will go through the vote (and hopefully be > accepted into the incubator) using the new name, so all the infra and > project setup can be done (hopefully) only once. > > -Jesús > > On Mon, Dec 11, 2023 at 5:29 PM Julian Hyde > wrote: > >> Much easier to change the name before incubation. It’s not so much code >> as all the infrastructure (mailing lists, git repos, web servers, svn >> files, …) that goes along with a podling. It’s a lot of work for INFRA and >> for the PPMC/champion. >> >> Also, branding. Calcite entered incubation as ‘Optiq’ and then renamed, >> but not before it had appeared in a few conference talks; people are still >> asking me ‘What happened to Optiq?' >> >> Julian >> >> >> > On Dec 11, 2023, at 5:08 PM, Jesus Camacho Rodriguez < >> jcama...@apache.org> wrote: >> > >> > Thanks to everyone who expressed support and offered help. It's great to >> > see that the project's mission resonates with so many different people. >> > >> > Jacques, we acknowledge your concern about the project name. We are >> working >> > on selecting a new name for ASF incubation that avoids confusion with >> any >> > specific corporation or product in the space. Currently we are doing >> some >> > due diligence to minimize the risk of having to change it again during >> > incubation; we'll update the proposal with the new name soon and share >> it >> > in this thread. >> > >> > Regarding the name-changing process and your concerns about it, we're >> > looking for advice based on past experiences. Specifically, we're >> > considering whether it's better to change the project's name before >> pushing >> > the code to the ASF, or if it's more practical to push the code to the >> ASF >> > repository first and then proceed with the name change. Any insights or >> > guidance on whether one option is better than the other based on >> previous >> > instances would be appreciated. >> > >> > Thanks, >> > Jesús >> > >> > >> > >> > On Mon, Dec 11, 2023 at 5:43 AM Jean-Baptiste Onofré < >> jbono...@apache.org> >> > wrote: >> > >> >> Of course, it's a big +1 one for me. >> >> >> >> The purpose is interesting, creating "connection" with other Apache >> >> projects. >> >> Happy to be a mentor on this proposal and contribute to the project :) >> >> >> >> Thanks ! >> >> Regards >> >> JB >> >> >> >> On Mon, Dec 4, 2023 at 10:23 PM Jesus Camacho Rodriguez >> >> wrote: >> >>> >> >>> Hi All, >> >>> >> >>> I would like to propose a new project to the ASF incubator - OneTable. >> >>> >> >>> OneTable[1] is an omni-directional converter for table formats that >> >> facilitates interoperability across data processing systems and query >> >> engines. Currently, OneTable supports widely adopted open-source table >> >> formats such as Apache Hudi, Apache Iceberg, and Delta Lake. >> >>> >> >>> Here is the proposal - >> >>> >> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/INCUBATOR/OneTable+Proposal >> >>> >> >>> I would be the Champion of the project. I will mentor and help the >> >> project through the incubator with Hitesh Shah [hit...@apache.org], >> >> Stamatis Zampetakis [zabe...@apache.org], and Jean-Baptiste Onofré [ >> >> jbono...@apache.org]. >> >>> >> >>> We are looking forward to your feedback! >> >>> >> >>> Thanks, >> >>> Jesús >> >>> >> >>> [1] https://github.com/onetable-io/onetable >> >> >> >> >> - >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org >> For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org >> >>
Re: [DISCUSS] OneTable proposal
Thanks Julian. I was mainly considering the code, but, as you mentioned, it's probably not the primary concern. The current proposal aligns with your feedback: The project will go through the vote (and hopefully be accepted into the incubator) using the new name, so all the infra and project setup can be done (hopefully) only once. -Jesús On Mon, Dec 11, 2023 at 5:29 PM Julian Hyde wrote: > Much easier to change the name before incubation. It’s not so much code as > all the infrastructure (mailing lists, git repos, web servers, svn files, > …) that goes along with a podling. It’s a lot of work for INFRA and for the > PPMC/champion. > > Also, branding. Calcite entered incubation as ‘Optiq’ and then renamed, > but not before it had appeared in a few conference talks; people are still > asking me ‘What happened to Optiq?' > > Julian > > > > On Dec 11, 2023, at 5:08 PM, Jesus Camacho Rodriguez < > jcama...@apache.org> wrote: > > > > Thanks to everyone who expressed support and offered help. It's great to > > see that the project's mission resonates with so many different people. > > > > Jacques, we acknowledge your concern about the project name. We are > working > > on selecting a new name for ASF incubation that avoids confusion with any > > specific corporation or product in the space. Currently we are doing some > > due diligence to minimize the risk of having to change it again during > > incubation; we'll update the proposal with the new name soon and share it > > in this thread. > > > > Regarding the name-changing process and your concerns about it, we're > > looking for advice based on past experiences. Specifically, we're > > considering whether it's better to change the project's name before > pushing > > the code to the ASF, or if it's more practical to push the code to the > ASF > > repository first and then proceed with the name change. Any insights or > > guidance on whether one option is better than the other based on previous > > instances would be appreciated. > > > > Thanks, > > Jesús > > > > > > > > On Mon, Dec 11, 2023 at 5:43 AM Jean-Baptiste Onofré < > jbono...@apache.org> > > wrote: > > > >> Of course, it's a big +1 one for me. > >> > >> The purpose is interesting, creating "connection" with other Apache > >> projects. > >> Happy to be a mentor on this proposal and contribute to the project :) > >> > >> Thanks ! > >> Regards > >> JB > >> > >> On Mon, Dec 4, 2023 at 10:23 PM Jesus Camacho Rodriguez > >> wrote: > >>> > >>> Hi All, > >>> > >>> I would like to propose a new project to the ASF incubator - OneTable. > >>> > >>> OneTable[1] is an omni-directional converter for table formats that > >> facilitates interoperability across data processing systems and query > >> engines. Currently, OneTable supports widely adopted open-source table > >> formats such as Apache Hudi, Apache Iceberg, and Delta Lake. > >>> > >>> Here is the proposal - > >>> > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/INCUBATOR/OneTable+Proposal > >>> > >>> I would be the Champion of the project. I will mentor and help the > >> project through the incubator with Hitesh Shah [hit...@apache.org], > >> Stamatis Zampetakis [zabe...@apache.org], and Jean-Baptiste Onofré [ > >> jbono...@apache.org]. > >>> > >>> We are looking forward to your feedback! > >>> > >>> Thanks, > >>> Jesús > >>> > >>> [1] https://github.com/onetable-io/onetable > >> > > > - > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org > For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org > >
Re: [DISCUSS] OneTable proposal
Thanks to everyone who expressed support and offered help. It's great to see that the project's mission resonates with so many different people. Jacques, we acknowledge your concern about the project name. We are working on selecting a new name for ASF incubation that avoids confusion with any specific corporation or product in the space. Currently we are doing some due diligence to minimize the risk of having to change it again during incubation; we'll update the proposal with the new name soon and share it in this thread. Regarding the name-changing process and your concerns about it, we're looking for advice based on past experiences. Specifically, we're considering whether it's better to change the project's name before pushing the code to the ASF, or if it's more practical to push the code to the ASF repository first and then proceed with the name change. Any insights or guidance on whether one option is better than the other based on previous instances would be appreciated. Thanks, Jesús On Mon, Dec 11, 2023 at 5:43 AM Jean-Baptiste Onofré wrote: > Of course, it's a big +1 one for me. > > The purpose is interesting, creating "connection" with other Apache > projects. > Happy to be a mentor on this proposal and contribute to the project :) > > Thanks ! > Regards > JB > > On Mon, Dec 4, 2023 at 10:23 PM Jesus Camacho Rodriguez > wrote: > > > > Hi All, > > > > I would like to propose a new project to the ASF incubator - OneTable. > > > > OneTable[1] is an omni-directional converter for table formats that > facilitates interoperability across data processing systems and query > engines. Currently, OneTable supports widely adopted open-source table > formats such as Apache Hudi, Apache Iceberg, and Delta Lake. > > > > Here is the proposal - > > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/INCUBATOR/OneTable+Proposal > > > > I would be the Champion of the project. I will mentor and help the > project through the incubator with Hitesh Shah [hit...@apache.org], > Stamatis Zampetakis [zabe...@apache.org], and Jean-Baptiste Onofré [ > jbono...@apache.org]. > > > > We are looking forward to your feedback! > > > > Thanks, > > Jesús > > > > [1] https://github.com/onetable-io/onetable >
Re: [DISCUSS] OneTable proposal
While Apache Arrow and OneTable both broadly aim for interoperability, they have different goals. Arrow focuses on creating an in-memory columnar data representation for use across multiple engines and applications. On the other hand, OneTable serves as a converter for table formats that (1) does not expose a new table format abstraction / API, and (2) does not aim to standardize / provide cross-compatibility for data representation; instead it relies on the data representation used by the specific table format. -Jesús On Mon, Dec 4, 2023 at 11:58 PM Yuanbo Liu wrote: > What are the differences between OneTable and Apache Arrow > > On Tue, Dec 5, 2023 at 11:11 AM Jeff Zhang wrote: > > > Seems an interesting project, looking forward to seeing it get into the > > apache incubator. > > > > On Tue, Dec 5, 2023 at 7:14 AM Felix Cheung > > wrote: > > > > > Interesting. Let me know if I can be of help as mentor > > > > > > > > > On Mon, Dec 4, 2023 at 1:35 PM Austin Bennett > wrote: > > > > > > > Awesome -- OneTable has a great purpose/mission, and can be really > > > > useful! I look forward to helping where I am able. > > > > > > > > > > > > On 2023/12/04 21:23:17 Jesus Camacho Rodriguez wrote: > > > > > Hi All, > > > > > > > > > > I would like to propose a new project to the ASF incubator - > > OneTable. > > > > > > > > > > OneTable[1] is an omni-directional converter for table formats that > > > > > facilitates interoperability across data processing systems and > query > > > > > engines. Currently, OneTable supports widely adopted open-source > > table > > > > > formats such as Apache Hudi, Apache Iceberg, and Delta Lake. > > > > > > > > > > Here is the proposal - > > > > > > > > > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/INCUBATOR/OneTable+Proposal > > > > > > > > > > I would be the Champion of the project. I will mentor and help the > > > > project > > > > > through the incubator with Hitesh Shah [hit...@apache.org], > Stamatis > > > > > Zampetakis [zabe...@apache.org], and Jean-Baptiste Onofré [ > > > > > jbono...@apache.org]. > > > > > > > > > > We are looking forward to your feedback! > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > Jesús > > > > > > > > > > [1] https://github.com/onetable-io/onetable > > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org > > > > For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Best Regards > > > > Jeff Zhang > > >
[DISCUSS] OneTable proposal
Hi All, I would like to propose a new project to the ASF incubator - OneTable. OneTable[1] is an omni-directional converter for table formats that facilitates interoperability across data processing systems and query engines. Currently, OneTable supports widely adopted open-source table formats such as Apache Hudi, Apache Iceberg, and Delta Lake. Here is the proposal - https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/INCUBATOR/OneTable+Proposal I would be the Champion of the project. I will mentor and help the project through the incubator with Hitesh Shah [hit...@apache.org], Stamatis Zampetakis [zabe...@apache.org], and Jean-Baptiste Onofré [ jbono...@apache.org]. We are looking forward to your feedback! Thanks, Jesús [1] https://github.com/onetable-io/onetable
