Re: OpenOffice.org next steps
Op 13-6-2011 22:14, Daniel Shahaf schreef: Sam Ruby wrote on Mon, Jun 13, 2011 at 15:48:37 -0400: On Mon, Jun 13, 2011 at 2:42 PM, Greg Steingst...@gmail.com wrote: On Jun 13, 2011 11:31 AM, Joe Schaeferjoe_schae...@yahoo.com wrote: The private list should only be subscribed to by folks who have already submitted an ICLA and account request id to Sam. To clarify: some people already have IDs, such as myself. If you're on Sam's list as such, go ahead and subscribe. Also note that any IPMC Member and any ASF Member is allowed to be on that list. There are usually quite a few non-project lurkers. Note: if you are an ASF member, and wish to subscribe to this list using an ID other than your apache.org id, Do you mean the email addres used to subscribe? please make sure that that id is listed in members.txt. Where is members.txt? -- Vriendelijke groet, Simon Brouwer. | http://nl.openoffice.org | http://www.opentaal.org | - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: [DISCUSSION] (was: RE: [VOTE] Accept OpenOffice.org for incubation)
Hi Gavin, Op 11-6-2011 10:59, Gavin McDonald schreef: -Original Message- From: Volker Merschmann [mailto:merschm...@gmail.com] Sent: Saturday, 11 June 2011 6:49 PM To: general@incubator.apache.org Subject: Re: [VOTE] Accept OpenOffice.org for incubation Hi, I am wearing my OOo-hat here, and this is my vote: [ ] +1 Accept OpenOffice.org for incubation [ ] +0 Indifferent to OpenOffice.org incubation [X ] -1 Reject OpenOffice.org for incubation I have contributed to OpenOffice.org for several years and I doubt that the project will find the needed resources at Apache. Hi Volker, Please tell us what sort of 'resources' are you talking about, examples please, are these infrastructure resources? If so, as an infra person here at the ASF I would like some insight into what people think we don’t have or cannot handle. I'm not answering for Volker, but personally I see a big problem in the fact that the installation packages of OpenOffice.org as we know it today contain numerous external (mostly LGPL) libraries and binaries that are not ASL licensed and not covered under the Oracle grant. As I understand, it is strict ASF policy not to distribute binaries containing non-ASL source, and it will be far from trivial to replace those dependencies. Therefore I expect that, even if OpenOffice.org can be built and distributed under these restrictions, it will be severely crippled for a long time to come. I foresee that many (prospective) OpenOffice.org-users will lose interest and that we won't be able to regain the momentum. -- Vriendelijke groet, Simon Brouwer. | http://nl.openoffice.org | http://www.opentaal.org | - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: Request: Can proposed committers introduce themselves?
Hi Malte, great to have you on board :) Best regards Simon Op 10-6-2011 18:16, Malte Timmermann schreef: Hi, my name is Malte Timmermann, and I work on the code base of OpenOffice.org since 1991 - almost from the beginning. It started with StarDivision, later acquired by Sun, later acquired by Oracle. While still being an Oracle employee, my engagement here will be on an individual base. Among the many things that I have implemented for OOo are the first version of the multi-platform Help System and compiler (and designing the XML version later), the Basic IDE, different widgets and remote support for VCL, the UNO AWT Toolkit and Uno Controls with MVC separation for using them in multi-view documents, and parts of the XML digital signatures. My biggest contribution probably was the EditEngine, which is used for text IO in Calc, Impress and the Drawing objects. When starting this, I was told to create some lightweight editor for Impress - and it ended up with a huge beast capable of many text processing features, including all the stuff you need for vertical and right-to-left writing, rotated text and text flow in a polygon. Later I became responsible for the project to make OpenOffice.org accessible, which was really challenging because of OOo's own GUI toolkit and because of all existing Accessibility APIs not being complete enough for exposing complex document content. So I spent a lot of time in designing the Uno Accessibility API (which later was used by IBM as the starting point for IAccessible2), and with having many discussions with people from JAA, ATK and with different AT projects and vendors. I still work in the area of Accessibility, be it for the OpenOffice.org application, or for ODF. I am a member of the OASIS ODF TC and it's Accessibility SC. When in 2006 the first security issues with OOo have been reported, I got the job to take care for StarOffice and OOo security and the handling of security issues. I have initiated the OOo Security Team, where people could report vulnerabilities to, and where people from different Linux distros are members so that we could together work on fixing the issues and coordinating release dates. Unfortunately, even working as a technical architect for StarOffice/OOo since 2003, I was only able to influence newly developed stuff, but not to make bigger changes to the existing code base - mainly because of resource and time restrictions. There are many things that should be changed. One of the things I have in mind would make it much easier for other projects or products to make use of the different OOo editors inside other applications or GUI technologies. Since this should be very interesting for commercial products like Lotus Symphony or RedOffice, maybe we can find time and resources for this now (once we have solved the more important issues to get Apache OOo running at all). But it will be a quite big task... It's now time for the next decade of OOo. After a decade of closed source StarOffice, and a decade of copyleft OpenOffice.org, it's now time for many decades of Apache OpenOffice(.org), where many individuals and companies can cooperate together, all having the same rights to make use of the code in other open source projects as well as in closed source products. And you can bet - after working on this thing almost half of my life now, I want to see Apache OpenOffice(.org) becoming a big success! Malte. PS: I just managed to catch up all the emails on this list, and summed it up in my blog at http://blogs.oracle.com/malte/ - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org -- Vriendelijke groet, Simon Brouwer. | http://nl.openoffice.org | http://www.opentaal.org | - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: Request: Can proposed committers introduce themselves?
Hi all, My name is Simon Brouwer. For my profession, I develop electronics and firmware for auto-ID equipment such as hand-held data collection terminals. In my free time I have been active in OpenOffice.org since 2001 and have been project lead of the Dutch native-lang subproject since its beginning in 2002. My contributions include making Dutch spell checking available in OOo, authoring most of nl.openoffice.org web content, coordinating the Dutch OOo community, writing the t9n tools that greatly helped with the translation of the online help to Dutch (and some other languages too), and providing a number of Dutch builds for Windows until Hamburg took over. Following up on the Dutch spell checking, I later co-founded the OpenTaal project, which provides free Dutch linguistics resources that are used in OpenOffice.org and many other open source projects. I have some programming experience in C/C++ and Java and have built OpenOffice.org from source under Windows and Linux. Although I have been very busy at work and will be for the foreseeable future, I hope to find some time to contribute to the continued success of OpenOffice.org. Best regards, Simon Brouwer http://nl.openoffice.org http://www.opentaal.org http://simonbr.xs4all.nl/wiki/ Op 7-6-2011 19:12, robert_w...@us.ibm.com schreef: By my count we have now have over 60 individuals listed on as proposed committers for the Apache OpenOffice project. I think this is a respectable start, though obviously the project will need to have a strong commitment to recruiting additional developers and growing the project further, On the list are many names on the list familiar to me, some from the OpenOffice.org community, some ODF experts, some involved in training and certification, some in globalization, some from downstream projects, commercial and open source, Symphony, RedOffice, EducOOo, even some TDF/LO names. There are also a lot of names that I do not recognize. This is good as well. I may have need of some new friends soon ;-) I think it would be good if the proposed committers who have not yet done so, could post a quick note to the list, to introduce yourself and your interest in this project. Think of this as an opportunity to introduce yourself to your future collaborators on Apache OpenOffice. Regards, -Rob - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org -- Vriendelijke groet, Simon Brouwer. | http://nl.openoffice.org | http://www.opentaal.org | - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: Question to TDF and its community
Christian Grobmeier schreef: We didn't balk when Geronimo was proposed, despite complaints from JBoss. We didn't balk when Felix (nee Oscar) was proposed. Â We didn't balk in other cases. Â We have never picked winners, we have incubated projects and let the community pick the winners. Â I don't see a reason to change our philosophy now. Geronimo is not the same case as OOo. With Geronimo people came and wanted to create it, because they were not happy. The company complained. With OOo the company was nasty and people went away and were happy. The company wants the project at the ASF, and some people complain now. After all I never really heard the words I want it at the ASF from somebody with OOo adress My opinion, as an independent OpenOffice.org community member, is that OpenOffice.org was, for most of its life, in excellent hands with Sun/Oracle all things considered. Given that Oracle has decided to pull away, I think handing it to an open source minded, vendor-neutral, mature, capable organization such as the ASF will provide it the best opportunities for continued success. -- Vriendelijke groet, Simon Brouwer -*- nl.openoffice.org -*- http://www.opentaal.org -*- - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: Code covered by the Oracle grant
Ralph Goers schreef: On Jun 6, 2011, at 7:27 AM, Sam Ruby wrote: On Mon, Jun 6, 2011 at 10:02 AM, Christian Lippka c...@lippka.com wrote: While the technical analyze here seems (should not use that word) correct my understanding is that missing bits could still be provided if requested. But this must be answered by people who are making the negotiations. I'll share my understanding. My first input was that any incubator proposal that was not accompanied by a substantial software grant would not get serious consideration. After a serious of miscommunications on both (ASF and Oracle's) sides I got on the phone directly with the Oracle VP driving this, and said that all we needed at this time was a substantial list to start from. If we needed more, we could discuss that later. This was approximately noon EDT on 31 May. After discussions with lawyers and collection of a list of files, the Software Grant was sent via email at 8:50PM PDT the same day. Others with no association to either IBM or Oracle can verify this basic timeline. My best guess is that while the list may be incomplete, it contains only files that Oracle could determine with absolutely certainty under incredible time pressure that they have the necessary rights to include a standard ASF software grant. While Oracle has absolutely no obligation to produce anything more, and people are welcome to factor that into their decisions once this comes up to a vote, nothing I have seen has indicated that anybody at Oracle is operating in anything other than good faith. It is my expectation that if we make reasonable requests and that if those requests are within Oracle's power to fulfill those requests, that we will obtain subsequent software grants. Sam, for me this is the only area where I question whether I will vote for the proposal. From what I read in Christian Lohmaier's summary Oracle has supplied about 50% of the OOo source code. To put this into perspective, if I remember correctly Christian's summary dealt with file lists and did not take file size into account. So that 50% in file count may represent a far bigger percentage of source code. The real question is whether anything essential is missing that Oracle can't supply and that is very difficult to replace. -- Vriendelijke groet, Simon Brouwer -*- nl.openoffice.org -*- http://www.opentaal.org -*- - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: Code covered by the Oracle grant
Hi Thorsten, Thorsten Behrens schreef: Simon Brouwer wrote: The real question is whether anything essential is missing that Oracle can't supply and that is very difficult to replace. If you re-read Christian's mail, the answer to both is yes. Both? That was only one question, and Christian's mail doesn't answer it with yes. Although essential things are missing, it's not apparent that those are things Oracle doesn't have the copyright to. If you think otherwise, give examples please. -- Vriendelijke groet, Simon Brouwer -*- nl.openoffice.org -*- http://www.opentaal.org -*- - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: A little OOo history
Op 7-6-2011 18:31, William A. Rowe Jr. schreef: On 6/7/2011 11:11 AM, Niall Pemberton wrote: On Tue, Jun 7, 2011 at 4:52 PM, William A. Rowe Jr.wr...@rowe-clan.net wrote: Just to clarify, only source code is released by the ASF. Yes, there may I don't believe this is true - we have to release the source, but anything we distribute is considered released and needs to be checked/approved - and the release FAQ seems to agree with that http://www.apache.org/dev/release.html#what Really? Where do you get that? The Apache Software Foundation produces open source software. All releases are in the form of the source materials needed to make changes to the software being released. In some cases, binary/bytecode packages are also produced as a convenience to users that might not have the appropriate tools to build a compiled version of the source. In all such cases, the binary/bytecode package must have the same version number as the source release and may only add binary/bytecode files that are the result of compiling that version of the source code release. The OpenOffice.org installation packages contain code from a considerable number of external libraries (i.e. third party ones that are developed in their own projects, not copyright Oracle and have mostly LGPL license). So this would not be allowed for releases by the podling? -- Vriendelijke groet, Simon Brouwer. | http://nl.openoffice.org | http://www.opentaal.org | - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: A little OOo history
Op 7-6-2011 22:37, William A. Rowe Jr. schreef: On 6/7/2011 3:17 PM, Simon Brouwer wrote: The OpenOffice.org installation packages contain code from a considerable number of external libraries (i.e. third party ones that are developed in their own projects, not copyright Oracle and have mostly LGPL license). So this would not be allowed for releases by the podling? Binaries under category A or B license would be permitted, compiled from releases under their original project. We like to avoid forks (and don't fork category B licenses such as MPL). Category X licensed components cannot be shipped by the ASF, which includes LGPL. http://www.apache.org/legal/resolved.html#category-a http://www.apache.org/legal/resolved.html#category-b http://www.apache.org/legal/resolved.html#category-x I entirely expect that LO today could not be shipped by the ASF. There is, as we have hinted, room to take LO further than OOo can be allowed, given our licensing guidelines. There is also the concept of optional dependencies, where the ASF software is capable of interfacing to some category x component, but the ASF does not complete that connection, and allows the packager/distributor to elect to do so. Support in httpd for mysql, oracle db, freetds, postgresql, gdbm and berkely db all fall into this category (and the package supports sqlite and sdbm to name two examples of this optional functionality implemented in AL compatible licensing). Then I expect that, even if a working OOo product could be shipped by the ASF in the near future under these conditions, it will be a big step back from the OOo/LO available today because many functions will be missing. -- Vriendelijke groet, Simon Brouwer. | http://nl.openoffice.org | http://www.opentaal.org | - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: OpenOffice: were are we now?
Christian Lippka schreef: Am 06.06.2011 00:28, schrieb Simon Brouwer: Op 5-6-2011 19:19, Christian Lippka schreef: Hi Ralph, Am 05.06.2011 18:46, schrieb Ralph Goers: On Jun 5, 2011, at 8:59 AM, Joe Schaefer wrote: I posted a similar statement yesterday. Personally, I think the traffic on this list has settled down a lot in the last 24 hours and is now focusing in on topics more relevant to this list. But maybe that is just because it was Saturday :-) Most of the sniping^H^H^H^Hdiscussion has moved over to the libreoffice lists at this point. What I am still waiting to hear on are: 1. The amount of code in the project that the grant didn't give to us under the Apache License. Not a blocker for starting incubation. IOW we don't ask for this level of detail from other podlings. It might be a blocker for my vote. You are, of course, free to vote differently. This is a much larger project than usually enters the incubator. I'm worried that if the project has too much of this kind of work to deal with it will kill the community. If I understand you correctly, your question is if the supplied set of source files is missing something to make this a working project. As stated earlier, the list of source files provided look like a 1:1 copy from the mercurial repository available at OpenOffice.org. I was looking at that, but I have the impression that the source code for a number of external projects is not present in the mercurial checkout and still has to be retrieved as part of the building process. There are makefiles, patches etc., but no source code worth mentioning, in subdirectories stlport, openssl, hunspell, libxslt... It might be all of these: http://hg.services.openoffice.org/binaries/ Yes and no. Usually external project would be build in modules like stlport, openssl etc. The archives with the sources would be in the above url. But what is missing are the patches to those external source archives. OK, so these patches should be added to the software grant, hardly a problem I should think. But a practical matter is whether ASF can provide a similar repository of external project archives, which much simplifies the build process, or is the policy not to distribute any source under non-ASL licenses strictly maintained? -- Vriendelijke groet, Simon Brouwer -*- nl.openoffice.org -*- http://www.opentaal.org -*- - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: [italo.vign...@documentfoundation.org: Re: OpenOffice and the ASF]
Hi Shane, Op 5-6-2011 6:11, Shane Curcuru schreef: Question: is anyone here aware of any registrations of OpenOffice.org or the logo or other related marks in other countries besides the US? The name Open Office has been registered in the Benelux by the Dutch company Open Office Automatisering since before OpenOffice.org was announced, see http://www.openoffice.nl/merkenregistratie Because of this and similar cases we need taking care to not omit the .org when indicating the project or the product OpenOffice.org. -- Vriendelijke groet, Simon Brouwer. | http://nl.openoffice.org | http://www.opentaal.org | - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: OpenOffice and the ASF
Op 2-6-2011 15:04, Greg Stein schreef: On Jun 2, 2011 4:32 AM, Alexandro Coloradoj...@openoffice.org wrote: ... There is currently a bit rearagement movement toward figuring things out in TDF OOo previously to the OOo annoucement, which happened last month on the marketing list in OOo. http://openoffice.org/projects/marketing/lists/dev/archive/2011-05/ Thanks for the link. ... Just to add clarity by inviting them, you mean that we should join the mailing list for discussing the proposal here. Or should we continue our converstions on each location. Discussion about the Incbator proposal should be done here, please. The audience of that proposal and, ultimately, those who will vote on it are subscribed to this list. Should we add ourselfs as commiters? If you would like to contribute here (possibly instead of, or in addition, to your work at TDF), then yes! Please add yourself into the proposal on the wiki. I had already been so bold as to adding myself to the list, expressing my support to the proposal. I was wondering though. In the OpenOffice.org project, many community members contribute in other ways than committing code, for example by writing or translating documentation, being active in the marketing project, taking part in QA. Some concern has been expressed that, if the meritocratic system in Apache is based on code contribution only, those community members are not able to fully become part of the OpenOffice.org Apache project or the Apache community. -- Vriendelijke groet, Simon Brouwer. | http://nl.openoffice.org | http://www.opentaal.org | - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
OpenOffice / OpenOffice.org
Hi Robert, all, I'd like to mention that OpenOffice.org is to be consistently written as such, not omitting the .org, because there are various companies around the world that have preceding rights to the name Open Office or similar. Best regards, Simon Op 2-6-2011 15:27, robert_w...@us.ibm.com schreef: OpenOffice Certified Professional versus Foo Certification for OpenOffice. -- Vriendelijke groet, Simon Brouwer. | http://nl.openoffice.org | http://www.opentaal.org | - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: OpenOffice and the ASF
Op 2-6-2011 15:30, Greg Stein schreef: On Thu, Jun 2, 2011 at 09:21, Simon Brouwersimon.o...@xs4all.nl wrote: Op 2-6-2011 15:04, Greg Stein schreef: ... If you would like to contribute here (possibly instead of, or in addition, to your work at TDF), then yes! Please add yourself into the proposal on the wiki. I had already been so bold as to adding myself to the list, expressing my support to the proposal. I was wondering though. In the OpenOffice.org project, many community members contribute in other ways than committing code, for example by writing or translating documentation, being active in the marketing project, taking part in QA. Some concern has been expressed that, if the meritocratic system in Apache is based on code contribution only, those community members are not able to fully become part of the OpenOffice.org Apache project or the Apache community. Not a worry. Noirin Plunkett (aka Noirin Shirley) is one of the Directors of Apache, the current Executive Vice President, and held the VP Conferences Committee position for several years. She has not submitted a single line of code that I can recall. Noirin started out at the ASF doing documentation for the HTTP Server project. We also have ASF Members such as Sally Khudairi (Press and Marketing) and Larry Rosen (Legal) who have not committed any code. I would suggest adding a Non-code Contributors table into the proposal and putting your name in there. We don't have precedent for it, so may as well start with something. We can always wiggle it around later, as needed. Actually I did contribute a few lines of code many years ago, although most of my contribution is on other things. What would be the advantage to have separate tables for code and non-code contributors? -- Vriendelijke groet, Simon Brouwer. | http://nl.openoffice.org | http://www.opentaal.org | - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: OpenOffice and the ASF
Hi Jim, Op 2-6-2011 16:42, Jim Jagielski schreef: On Jun 2, 2011, at 9:21 AM, Simon Brouwer wrote: I had already been so bold as to adding myself to the list, expressing my support to the proposal. I was wondering though. In the OpenOffice.org project, many community members contribute in other ways than committing code, for example by writing or translating documentation, being active in the marketing project, taking part in QA. Some concern has been expressed that, if the meritocratic system in Apache is based on code contribution only, those community members are not able to fully become part of the OpenOffice.org Apache project or the Apache community. Any one who suggest such a thing simply does not know nor understand the ASF, plain and simple. I think that is exactly the problem for many in the OpenOffice.org community. We didn't know of anything going on between OpenOffice.org and the ASF until Oracle's press release. So we have hardly had the opportunity to get acquainted ;) -- Vriendelijke groet, Simon Brouwer. | http://nl.openoffice.org | http://www.opentaal.org | - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
