RE: [DISCUSS] Poddling new committer process
Ok its been nearly a week and there is overwhelming support for doing this so I have gone ahead and made an update to the PPMC guide to reflect this [policy change]. Let's remember to add this to next month's Board report. --- Noel - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: [DISCUSS] Poddling new committer process
On Fri, Nov 12, 2010 at 12:20 AM, ant elder ant.el...@gmail.com wrote: I'd like to propose that the process for Incubator poddlings to make someone a new committer is simplified so that all that is needed are votes from poddling committers and that there is no longer any need for votes from Incubator PMC members or a separate Incubator PMC vote. As Bertrand said, I'm ok with requiring at least one mentor voting and notice sent to private@ *afterwards*. -- justin +1 to the combined proposal +1 please lets do it. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: [DISCUSS] Poddling new committer process
On Wed, Nov 17, 2010 at 11:53 PM, Craig L Russell craig.russ...@oracle.com wrote: Assuming that no one comes forward with a significant reason to disallow this, I'd just request that you not call a VOTE until you have an update to the incubator page that describes the process. In other words, let's DISCUSS and then VOTE on the change to the process page. I don't think a VOTE is necessary because the page being updated is not a policy page so changes use CTR not RTC. For an enjoyable sense of symmetry see: http://apache.markmail.org/message/h7lvpedsn46g72lf ...ant - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: [DISCUSS] Poddling new committer process
On Fri, Nov 12, 2010 at 8:20 AM, ant elder ant.el...@gmail.com wrote: I'd like to propose that the process for Incubator poddlings to make someone a new committer is simplified so that all that is needed are votes from poddling committers and that there is no longer any need for votes from Incubator PMC members or a separate Incubator PMC vote. As justification, this is the process that was in place some years ago and it worked fine like that, there is the experiment currently in place with some poddlings doing this which seems to be working ok, and the board has said they're ok with it. ...ant Ok its been nearly a week and there is overwhelming support for doing this so I have gone ahead and made an update to the PPMC guide to reflect this. The text is a copy of what is already there for voting in a new PPMC member updated as necessary for being a committer. The new text reads: -- Any member of the PPMC can propose a new committer. The proposal should be discussed in private on the PPMC private alias, with a subject line of [DISCUSS] Joe Bob as committer. If there is consensus that the proposed member is suitable, then there should be a formal vote in the PPMC private alias, with the subject line of [VOTE] Joe Bob as committer. The [VOTE] message should be forwarded to the IPMC ( priv...@incubator.apache.org) to notify them that the vote is underway. If the vote is successful, the proposer should send a message to the PPMC private alias, with the subject line of [VOTE][RESULT] Joe Bob as committer. Note that to be successful the vote requires at least one +1 from a poddling mentor, or, if no mentors are available from an Incubator PMC member. -- ...ant - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: [DISCUSS] Poddling new committer process
+1 to the proposal. What makes me uneasy about this is that, notwithstanding the one mentor vote, we are basically saying that the bar for ASF committership can now be defined solely by a group of people who might have no knowledge, as yet, of the Apache way in general and the way meritocracy works in particular. I disagree. The essential ingredient is the requirement for mentor participation. It's the mentor's job to pay attention and see if the project is on the right track. -- Martin Cooper As justification, this is the process that was in place some years ago and it worked fine like that, there is the experiment currently in place with some poddlings doing this which seems to be working ok, and the board has said they're ok with it. ...ant - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: [DISCUSS] Poddling new committer process
+1 @ Benson, so if that only one vote is not there, the vote is not accepted. On Wed, Nov 17, 2010 at 11:54 AM, Benson Margulies bimargul...@gmail.com wrote: +1 to the proposal. What makes me uneasy about this is that, notwithstanding the one mentor vote, we are basically saying that the bar for ASF committership can now be defined solely by a group of people who might have no knowledge, as yet, of the Apache way in general and the way meritocracy works in particular. I disagree. The essential ingredient is the requirement for mentor participation. It's the mentor's job to pay attention and see if the project is on the right track. -- Martin Cooper As justification, this is the process that was in place some years ago and it worked fine like that, there is the experiment currently in place with some poddlings doing this which seems to be working ok, and the board has said they're ok with it. ...ant - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org -- Thanks - Mohammad Nour Author of (WebSphere Application Server Community Edition 2.0 User Guide) http://www.redbooks.ibm.com/abstracts/sg247585.html - LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/mnour - Blog: http://tadabborat.blogspot.com Life is like riding a bicycle. To keep your balance you must keep moving - Albert Einstein Writing clean code is what you must do in order to call yourself a professional. There is no reasonable excuse for doing anything less than your best. - Clean Code: A Handbook of Agile Software Craftsmanship Stay hungry, stay foolish. - Steve Jobs - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: [DISCUSS] Poddling new committer process
+1 (with the one required mentor/IPMC vote and notifying private@) david jencks On Nov 12, 2010, at 7:41 AM, Glen Daniels wrote: +1 from me. I also agree with Bertrand's point about notifying private@, and would be OK with requiring a (single) mentor/IPMC vote to ensure that someone is paying attention... but it would be nice if we didn't need two. --Glen On 11/12/2010 3:20 AM, ant elder wrote: I'd like to propose that the process for Incubator poddlings to make someone a new committer is simplified so that all that is needed are votes from poddling committers and that there is no longer any need for votes from Incubator PMC members or a separate Incubator PMC vote. As justification, this is the process that was in place some years ago and it worked fine like that, there is the experiment currently in place with some poddlings doing this which seems to be working ok, and the board has said they're ok with it. ...ant - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: [DISCUSS] Poddling new committer process
Assuming that no one comes forward with a significant reason to disallow this, I'd just request that you not call a VOTE until you have an update to the incubator page that describes the process. In other words, let's DISCUSS and then VOTE on the change to the process page. Craig On Nov 12, 2010, at 12:20 AM, ant elder wrote: I'd like to propose that the process for Incubator poddlings to make someone a new committer is simplified so that all that is needed are votes from poddling committers and that there is no longer any need for votes from Incubator PMC members or a separate Incubator PMC vote. As justification, this is the process that was in place some years ago and it worked fine like that, there is the experiment currently in place with some poddlings doing this which seems to be working ok, and the board has said they're ok with it. ...ant - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org Craig L Russell Architect, Oracle http://db.apache.org/jdo 408 276-5638 mailto:craig.russ...@oracle.com P.S. A good JDO? O, Gasp! - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: [DISCUSS] Poddling new committer process
Hi Craig... I think this is not a formal vote, it is like an acceptance vote before going into the formality of a real vote, so the voting thread is not full of a lot of *dicussion* e-mails which can drift the voting thread away from its purpose :). On Wed, Nov 17, 2010 at 11:53 PM, Craig L Russell craig.russ...@oracle.com wrote: Assuming that no one comes forward with a significant reason to disallow this, I'd just request that you not call a VOTE until you have an update to the incubator page that describes the process. In other words, let's DISCUSS and then VOTE on the change to the process page. Craig On Nov 12, 2010, at 12:20 AM, ant elder wrote: I'd like to propose that the process for Incubator poddlings to make someone a new committer is simplified so that all that is needed are votes from poddling committers and that there is no longer any need for votes from Incubator PMC members or a separate Incubator PMC vote. As justification, this is the process that was in place some years ago and it worked fine like that, there is the experiment currently in place with some poddlings doing this which seems to be working ok, and the board has said they're ok with it. ...ant - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org Craig L Russell Architect, Oracle http://db.apache.org/jdo 408 276-5638 mailto:craig.russ...@oracle.com P.S. A good JDO? O, Gasp! - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org -- Thanks - Mohammad Nour Author of (WebSphere Application Server Community Edition 2.0 User Guide) http://www.redbooks.ibm.com/abstracts/sg247585.html - LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/mnour - Blog: http://tadabborat.blogspot.com Life is like riding a bicycle. To keep your balance you must keep moving - Albert Einstein Writing clean code is what you must do in order to call yourself a professional. There is no reasonable excuse for doing anything less than your best. - Clean Code: A Handbook of Agile Software Craftsmanship Stay hungry, stay foolish. - Steve Jobs - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: [DISCUSS] Poddling new committer process
Hi Mohammad Nour El-Din, On Nov 17, 2010, at 4:01 PM, Mohammad Nour El-Din wrote: Hi Craig... I think this is not a formal vote, no disagreement it is like an acceptance vote no disagreement before going into the formality of a real vote, and before we go into a real vote we need to have something to really vote on... so the voting thread is not full of a lot of *dicussion* e-mails which can drift the voting thread away from its purpose :). And I promise to drift into a discussion of why there's no concrete process proposal if a VOTE is called without the specific process... Craig On Wed, Nov 17, 2010 at 11:53 PM, Craig L Russell craig.russ...@oracle.com wrote: Assuming that no one comes forward with a significant reason to disallow this, I'd just request that you not call a VOTE until you have an update to the incubator page that describes the process. In other words, let's DISCUSS and then VOTE on the change to the process page. Craig On Nov 12, 2010, at 12:20 AM, ant elder wrote: I'd like to propose that the process for Incubator poddlings to make someone a new committer is simplified so that all that is needed are votes from poddling committers and that there is no longer any need for votes from Incubator PMC members or a separate Incubator PMC vote. As justification, this is the process that was in place some years ago and it worked fine like that, there is the experiment currently in place with some poddlings doing this which seems to be working ok, and the board has said they're ok with it. ...ant - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org Craig L Russell Architect, Oracle http://db.apache.org/jdo 408 276-5638 mailto:craig.russ...@oracle.com P.S. A good JDO? O, Gasp! - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org -- Thanks - Mohammad Nour Author of (WebSphere Application Server Community Edition 2.0 User Guide) http://www.redbooks.ibm.com/abstracts/sg247585.html - LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/mnour - Blog: http://tadabborat.blogspot.com Life is like riding a bicycle. To keep your balance you must keep moving - Albert Einstein Writing clean code is what you must do in order to call yourself a professional. There is no reasonable excuse for doing anything less than your best. - Clean Code: A Handbook of Agile Software Craftsmanship Stay hungry, stay foolish. - Steve Jobs - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org Craig L Russell Architect, Oracle http://db.apache.org/jdo 408 276-5638 mailto:craig.russ...@oracle.com P.S. A good JDO? O, Gasp! - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: [DISCUSS] Poddling new committer process
On Fri, Nov 12, 2010 at 8:20 AM, ant elder ant.el...@gmail.com wrote: I'd like to propose that the process for Incubator poddlings to make someone a new committer is simplified so that all that is needed are votes from poddling committers and that there is no longer any need for votes from Incubator PMC members or a separate Incubator PMC vote. As justification, this is the process that was in place some years ago and it worked fine like that, there is the experiment currently in place with some poddlings doing this which seems to be working ok, and the board has said they're ok with it. +1 Niall ...ant - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: [DISCUSS] Poddling new committer process
On Tue, Nov 16, 2010 at 9:46 AM, Noel J. Bergman n...@devtech.com wrote: On Fri, Nov 12, 2010 at 12:20 AM, ant elder ant.el...@gmail.com wrote: As Bertrand said, I'm ok with requiring at least one mentor voting and notice sent to private@ *afterwards*. -- justin +1 to the combined proposal +1 from me too. Cheers -- Niclas Hedhman, Software Developer http://www.qi4j.org - New Energy for Java I live here; http://tinyurl.com/2qq9er I work here; http://tinyurl.com/2ymelc I relax here; http://tinyurl.com/2cgsug - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: [DISCUSS] Poddling new committer process
On Nov 12, 2010, at 2:20 AM, ant elder wrote: I'd like to propose that the process for Incubator poddlings to make someone a new committer is simplified so that all that is needed are votes from poddling committers and that there is no longer any need for votes from Incubator PMC members or a separate Incubator PMC vote. As justification, this is the process that was in place some years ago and it worked fine like that, there is the experiment currently in place with some poddlings doing this which seems to be working ok, and the board has said they're ok with it. +1 Matt ...ant - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: [DISCUSS] Poddling new committer process
On Fri, Nov 12, 2010 at 12:20 AM, ant elder ant.el...@gmail.com wrote: I'd like to propose that the process for Incubator poddlings to make someone a new committer is simplified so that all that is needed are votes from poddling committers and that there is no longer any need for votes from Incubator PMC members or a separate Incubator PMC vote. What makes me uneasy about this is that, notwithstanding the one mentor vote, we are basically saying that the bar for ASF committership can now be defined solely by a group of people who might have no knowledge, as yet, of the Apache way in general and the way meritocracy works in particular. -- Martin Cooper As justification, this is the process that was in place some years ago and it worked fine like that, there is the experiment currently in place with some poddlings doing this which seems to be working ok, and the board has said they're ok with it. ...ant - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: [DISCUSS] Poddling new committer process
On Tue, Nov 16, 2010 at 9:37 PM, Martin Cooper mart...@apache.org wrote: On Fri, Nov 12, 2010 at 12:20 AM, ant elder ant.el...@gmail.com wrote: I'd like to propose that the process for Incubator poddlings to make someone a new committer is simplified so that all that is needed are votes from poddling committers and that there is no longer any need for votes from Incubator PMC members or a separate Incubator PMC vote. What makes me uneasy about this is that, notwithstanding the one mentor vote, we are basically saying that the bar for ASF committership can now be defined solely by a group of people who might have no knowledge, as yet, of the Apache way in general and the way meritocracy works in particular. -- Martin Cooper From this discussion, other then the mentor vote, there is still a need to notify the IPMC and if we give the 72 hrs the IPMC members can still provide oversight/investigation if they think there is an issue with the proposed committer. Having said that, we had this process in the past, and some podlings are already experimenting this process and it does not seem to have caused any issues. Anyway, just my 0.02c. -- Luciano Resende http://people.apache.org/~lresende http://twitter.com/lresende1975 http://lresende.blogspot.com/ - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
RE: [DISCUSS] Poddling new committer process
On Fri, Nov 12, 2010 at 12:20 AM, ant elder ant.el...@gmail.com wrote: I'd like to propose that the process for Incubator poddlings to make someone a new committer is simplified so that all that is needed are votes from poddling committers and that there is no longer any need for votes from Incubator PMC members or a separate Incubator PMC vote. As Bertrand said, I'm ok with requiring at least one mentor voting and notice sent to private@ *afterwards*. -- justin +1 to the combined proposal --- Noel - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: [DISCUSS] Poddling new committer process
On Mon, Nov 15, 2010 at 5:46 PM, Noel J. Bergman n...@devtech.com wrote: On Fri, Nov 12, 2010 at 12:20 AM, ant elder ant.el...@gmail.com wrote: I'd like to propose that the process for Incubator poddlings to make someone a new committer is simplified so that all that is needed are votes from poddling committers and that there is no longer any need for votes from Incubator PMC members or a separate Incubator PMC vote. As Bertrand said, I'm ok with requiring at least one mentor voting and notice sent to private@ *afterwards*. -- justin +1 to the combined proposal +1 -- Luciano Resende http://people.apache.org/~lresende http://twitter.com/lresende1975 http://lresende.blogspot.com/ - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
[DISCUSS] Poddling new committer process
I'd like to propose that the process for Incubator poddlings to make someone a new committer is simplified so that all that is needed are votes from poddling committers and that there is no longer any need for votes from Incubator PMC members or a separate Incubator PMC vote. As justification, this is the process that was in place some years ago and it worked fine like that, there is the experiment currently in place with some poddlings doing this which seems to be working ok, and the board has said they're ok with it. ...ant - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: [DISCUSS] Poddling new committer process
Hi, On Fri, Nov 12, 2010 at 9:20 AM, ant elder ant.el...@gmail.com wrote: I'd like to propose that the process for Incubator poddlings to make someone a new committer is simplified so that all that is needed are votes from poddling committers and that there is no longer any need for votes from Incubator PMC members or a separate Incubator PMC vote I like the idea but suggest requiring at least two +1 votes from the podling's mentors (or incubator PMC members acting as temporary substitute mentors in case of absence) instead of just PPMC members. The rationale is to make sure mentors are following the action. Also, I'd like to keep the notices to priv...@incubator.apache.org when a new committer is voted in, with a reference to the vote results thread. -Bertrand - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: [DISCUSS] Poddling new committer process
+1 from me... Cheers, Chris On 11/12/10 12:20 AM, ant elder ant.el...@gmail.com wrote: I'd like to propose that the process for Incubator poddlings to make someone a new committer is simplified so that all that is needed are votes from poddling committers and that there is no longer any need for votes from Incubator PMC members or a separate Incubator PMC vote. As justification, this is the process that was in place some years ago and it worked fine like that, there is the experiment currently in place with some poddlings doing this which seems to be working ok, and the board has said they're ok with it. ...ant - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org ++ Chris Mattmann, Ph.D. Senior Computer Scientist NASA Jet Propulsion Laboratory Pasadena, CA 91109 USA Office: 171-266B, Mailstop: 171-246 Email: chris.mattm...@jpl.nasa.gov WWW: http://sunset.usc.edu/~mattmann/ ++ Adjunct Assistant Professor, Computer Science Department University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA 90089 USA ++
Re: [DISCUSS] Poddling new committer process
+1 from me. I also agree with Bertrand's point about notifying private@, and would be OK with requiring a (single) mentor/IPMC vote to ensure that someone is paying attention... but it would be nice if we didn't need two. --Glen On 11/12/2010 3:20 AM, ant elder wrote: I'd like to propose that the process for Incubator poddlings to make someone a new committer is simplified so that all that is needed are votes from poddling committers and that there is no longer any need for votes from Incubator PMC members or a separate Incubator PMC vote. As justification, this is the process that was in place some years ago and it worked fine like that, there is the experiment currently in place with some poddlings doing this which seems to be working ok, and the board has said they're ok with it. ...ant - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: [DISCUSS] Poddling new committer process
On Fri, Nov 12, 2010 at 4:41 PM, Glen Daniels g...@thoughtcraft.com wrote: ...I also agree with Bertrand's point about notifying private@, and would be OK with requiring a (single) mentor/IPMC vote to ensure that someone is paying attention... but it would be nice if we didn't need two Ok, one mentor is enough, agreed. -Bertrand - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: [DISCUSS] Poddling new committer process
On Fri, Nov 12, 2010 at 12:20 AM, ant elder ant.el...@gmail.com wrote: I'd like to propose that the process for Incubator poddlings to make someone a new committer is simplified so that all that is needed are votes from poddling committers and that there is no longer any need for votes from Incubator PMC members or a separate Incubator PMC vote. +1. As Bertrand said, I'm ok with requiring at least one mentor voting and notice sent to private@ *afterwards*. -- justin - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
