subject:"\[VOTE\] Graduate ACE from the Apache Incubator"

On 21 November 2011 01:56, ant elder antel...@apache.org wrote:
That seems an unusual approach to building the src. It also means that
to build the complete 0.8.0 release which contains 60 something
modules would require manually typing in over 400 commands which is
not very practical, i doubt anyone who voted +1 for the release
actually did that. I think an ASF release like this should have also
had a single source distribution that contained all the source for all
those modules along with a build script to build them, and IMHO your
mentors should have helped you do that. Would you consider doing
another release like this before you graduate?

+1, well put.

...ant

On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 2:07 PM, Karl Pauls karlpa...@gmail.com wrote:
$ mkdir org.apache.ace.client.automation-0.8.0-incubator
$ cd org.apache.ace.client.automation-0.8.0-incubator/
$ wget
http://www.apache.org/dist/incubator/ace/org.apache.ace.client.automation-0.8.0-incubator-source.jar
$ jar -xf org.apache.ace.client.automation-0.8.0-incubator-sources.jar
$ wget
http://www.apache.org/dist/incubator/ace/org.apache.ace.client.automation-0.8.0-incubator.pom
$ mv org.apache.ace.client.automation-0.8.0-incubator.pom pom.xml
$ mvn clean install

regards,

Karl

On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 2:54 PM, ant elder ant.el...@gmail.com wrote:
To try that I just went to the ACE downloads page which has a bunch of
jars and source jars to download, i downloaded the source of the first
one, org.apache.ace.client.automation-0.8.0-incubator-sources.jar, and
looking inside there is the source to some Java classes but no build
scripts or pom.xml file, so how would I go about building this?

...ant

On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 1:35 PM, Karl Pauls karlpa...@gmail.com wrote:
Again, we had this discussion before namely, when the actual release
vote happened. I'm still confused why we have to go through this
again. You should be able to build all of the components by using the
-source.jar's that are provided. They contain what is necessary i.e.,
the full source.

regards,

Karl

On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 2:30 PM, sebb seb...@gmail.com wrote:
On 17 November 2011 12:29, Karl Pauls karlpa...@gmail.com wrote:
I'm not sure what this has to do with the graduation vote. The release
as such has been accepted by the incubator pmc and there only need to
be one release. The source for each artifact is there, it is just per
artifact in the -source.jar.

AFAICT the full source (as in SVN trunk) is not actually present in
the distribution directory.

For example, where are the top-level files in SVN (BUILDING, README) ?
And the etc/ directory?

If I wanted to build any or all of the components, there does not
appear to be a way to do this from the files in the distribution.

There might be different set-up then a lot of other projects have it
but we release our stuff on a per artifact basis how it is done by for
example Apache Felix as well and never has been an issue (and didn't
become unmanageably either - also ymmv).

The ASF primarily releases source; releases must include full source.

I agree about the KEYS file. We should have uploaded it to the dist
dir as well but at least we have it at some place so it should be easy
to fix.

regards,

Karl

On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 1:07 PM, sebb seb...@gmail.com wrote:
On 17 November 2011 10:42, Marcel Offermans
marcel.offerm...@luminis.nl wrote:
In my opinion, ACE is ready to begin the process of graduating from
the Apache Incubator to a Top Level Project.

Since joining the incubator in in May 2009 we've added 4 new
committers (12 in total now) from diverse organizations and did a
release in May this year to demonstrate we follow the Apache
guidelines. We've shown an ability to self-govern using accepted
Apache practices and ACE continues to attract new contributors and
users.

The first step is to vote as a community, demonstrating that ACE is
ready and willing to graduate. Once this vote is succesful we create a
board resolution proposal or Charter and start a vote on the general
incubator list. The full process is described at
http://incubator.apache.org/guides/graduation.html#toplevel

The vote is open for at least 72 hours.

The last (and only) release was 0.8, as far as I can tell.

There is no KEYS file in http://www.apache.org/dist/incubator/ace/,
and there does not appear to be a full source archive of the project
anywhere.
The download page does not have a link to any source archives as far
as I can tell.
It does link to KEYS in SVN, but almost all other ASF projects have a
copy of KEYS in the appropriate /dist directory.

Normally releases are divided into binaries/ and source/ directories,
with a KEYS file in the top-level, i.e.

/dist/incubator/ace
- KEYS
- binaries/ace zip
- sources/acezip

Most of the files in the /dist/incubator/ace directory appear to be
Maven artifacts; normally these are not stored in /dist but

Re: [VOTE] Graduate ACE from the Apache Incubator

2011-11-21 Thread davidb

+1 (non-binding).
It would be great to see Ace as a top level project.

Best regards,

David Bosschaert

On 19 November 2011 01:33, Julien Vermillard jvermill...@gmail.com wrote:
 +1 binding

 On Friday, November 18, 2011, Alan D. Cabrera l...@toolazydogs.com wrote:
 +1  binding


 Regards,
 Alan

 On Nov 17, 2011, at 2:42 AM, Marcel Offermans wrote:

 In my opinion, ACE is ready to begin the process of graduating from the
 Apache Incubator to a Top Level Project.

 Since joining the incubator in in May 2009 we've added 4 new committers
 (12 in total now) from diverse organizations and did a release in May this
 year to demonstrate we follow the Apache guidelines. We've shown an ability
 to self-govern using accepted Apache practices and ACE continues to attract
 new contributors and users.

 The first step is to vote as a community, demonstrating that ACE is
 ready and willing to graduate. Once this vote is succesful we create a
 board resolution proposal or Charter and start a vote on the general
 incubator list. The full process is described at
 http://incubator.apache.org/guides/graduation.html#toplevel

 The vote is open for at least 72 hours.

 Greetings, Marcel



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Re: [VOTE] Graduate ACE from the Apache Incubator

2011-11-21 Thread Alex Karasulu

+1

binding ...

Cheers,
Alex

On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 2:07 PM, dav...@apache.org wrote:

 +1 (non-binding).
 It would be great to see Ace as a top level project.

 Best regards,

 David Bosschaert

 On 19 November 2011 01:33, Julien Vermillard jvermill...@gmail.com
 wrote:
  +1 binding
 
  On Friday, November 18, 2011, Alan D. Cabrera l...@toolazydogs.com
 wrote:
  +1  binding
 
 
  Regards,
  Alan
 
  On Nov 17, 2011, at 2:42 AM, Marcel Offermans wrote:
 
  In my opinion, ACE is ready to begin the process of graduating from the
  Apache Incubator to a Top Level Project.
 
  Since joining the incubator in in May 2009 we've added 4 new committers
  (12 in total now) from diverse organizations and did a release in May
 this
  year to demonstrate we follow the Apache guidelines. We've shown an
 ability
  to self-govern using accepted Apache practices and ACE continues to
 attract
  new contributors and users.
 
  The first step is to vote as a community, demonstrating that ACE is
  ready and willing to graduate. Once this vote is succesful we create a
  board resolution proposal or Charter and start a vote on the general
  incubator list. The full process is described at
  http://incubator.apache.org/guides/graduation.html#toplevel
 
  The vote is open for at least 72 hours.
 
  Greetings, Marcel
 
 
 
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-- 
Best Regards,
-- Alex

Re: [VOTE] Graduate ACE from the Apache Incubator

Well, I agree and disagree at the same time :-).

On the one hand (as pointed out by Guillaume Nodet), we should have
generated the source distribution for each bundle. We switched to a
newer parent pom and did miss that we should have configured that.
This makes it not very practical to build the release and we for sure
will configure it next time.

On the other hand, we don't want to provide a single source
distribution for all bundles as we still want to release our bundles
independently from each other.

In summary, the next release will contain easier to build source
distributions for each bundle but not a single source distribution for
all of them. That is a good catch overall but I don't think it makes
this release invalid (as the required things are there - just
unfortunately not very practical to build). As we are planning to
roll a 1.0.0 release anyways when graduated, I'd say lets ask for
graduation and then provide a 1.0.0 release which has the source
distribution configured per bundle. How about that?

regards,

Karl

On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 2:56 AM, ant elder antel...@apache.org wrote:
That seems an unusual approach to building the src. It also means that
to build the complete 0.8.0 release which contains 60 something
modules would require manually typing in over 400 commands which is
not very practical, i doubt anyone who voted +1 for the release
actually did that. I think an ASF release like this should have also
had a single source distribution that contained all the source for all
those modules along with a build script to build them, and IMHO your
mentors should have helped you do that. Would you consider doing
another release like this before you graduate?

...ant

regards,

Karl

...ant

regards,

Karl

AFAICT the full source (as in SVN trunk) is not actually present in
the distribution directory.

For example, where are the top-level files in SVN (BUILDING, README) ?
And the etc/ directory?

If I wanted to build any or all of the components, there does not
appear to be a way to do this from the files in the distribution.

The ASF primarily releases source; releases must include full source.

I agree about the KEYS file. We should have uploaded it to the dist
dir as well but at least we have it at some place so it should be easy
to fix.

regards,

Karl

The first step is to vote as a community, demonstrating that ACE

Re: [VOTE] Graduate ACE from the Apache Incubator

Well IMHO i don't think this release demonstrates that the poddling
has an understanding of making or reviewing ASF releases and thats the
point of requiring releases during incubation.

The comment from Guillaume in this thread was just about naming the
SVN folder containing the tags releases instead of tags which no
one is saying is a major issue.

...ant

On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 1:47 PM, Karl Pauls karlpa...@gmail.com wrote:
Well, I agree and disagree at the same time :-).

On the other hand, we don't want to provide a single source
distribution for all bundles as we still want to release our bundles
independently from each other.

regards,

Karl

...ant

regards,

Karl

...ant

regards,

Karl

AFAICT the full source (as in SVN trunk) is not actually present in
the distribution directory.

For example, where are the top-level files in SVN (BUILDING, README) ?
And the etc/ directory?

If I wanted to build any or all of the components, there does not
appear to be a way to do this from the files in the distribution.

The ASF primarily releases source; releases must include full source.

I agree about the KEYS file. We should have uploaded it to the dist
dir as well but at least we have it at some place so it should be easy
to fix.

regards,

Karl

Re: [VOTE] Graduate ACE from the Apache Incubator

On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 3:08 PM, ant elder antel...@apache.org wrote:
Well IMHO i don't think this release demonstrates that the poddling
has an understanding of making or reviewing ASF releases and thats the
point of requiring releases during incubation.

So you want us to do a new release? Fine, whatever, we can just roll a
new release which has the source distribution configured. That was a
mistake in the first place as it makes the bundles not easily
individually buildable.

However, we still will not have a combined source release as we want
to be able to release our bundles individually. Is that the resolution
then? All we have to do is a do a micro release with the source
distribution configured on a per artifact level?

The comment from Guillaume in this thread was just about naming the
SVN folder containing the tags releases instead of tags which no
one is saying is a major issue.

No, he had two remarks, one about the tags and one about the source releases.

regards,

Karl

...ant

On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 1:47 PM, Karl Pauls karlpa...@gmail.com wrote:
Well, I agree and disagree at the same time :-).

On the other hand, we don't want to provide a single source
distribution for all bundles as we still want to release our bundles
independently from each other.

regards,

Karl

...ant

regards,

Karl

...ant

regards,

Karl

AFAICT the full source (as in SVN trunk) is not actually present in
the distribution directory.

For example, where are the top-level files in SVN (BUILDING, README) ?
And the etc/ directory?

If I wanted to build any or all of the components, there does not
appear to be a way to do this from the files in the distribution.

There might be different set-up then a lot of other

Re: [VOTE] Graduate ACE from the Apache Incubator

On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 2:18 PM, Karl Pauls karlpa...@gmail.com wrote:
 On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 3:08 PM, ant elder antel...@apache.org wrote:
 Well IMHO i don't think this release demonstrates that the poddling
 has an understanding of making or reviewing ASF releases and thats the
 point of requiring releases during incubation.

 So you want us to do a new release? Fine, whatever, we can just roll a
 new release which has the source distribution configured. That was a
 mistake in the first place as it makes the bundles not easily
 individually buildable.

 However, we still will not have a combined source release as we want
 to be able to release our bundles individually. Is that the resolution
 then? All we have to do is a do a micro release with the source
 distribution configured on a per artifact level?


I agree the requirement for a single source release doesn't seem
totally clear, I've said I think you should have one and so has sebb,
it would be good to hear what other Incubator PMC people think. I
think you need one for two main reasons:

1) The ASF deals with source and the releases are how users get hold
of that source. If a user is going to do development with the released
ACE source they likely aren't going to be able to do very much useful
with just single things like org.apache.ace.repository.imp. At the
very least they're probably going to want
org.apache.ace.repository.api too but likely there is a big network of
the 60 something ACE modules that anyone doing most non-trivial ACE
development is going to want. One source distribution makes this easy,
making them have to download them all separately isn't particularly
practical. That https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator/ace/trunk/
is structured so the ASF committers can work with them as one single
buildable checkout i think shows thats true.

2) If there is only individually buildable source for each jar how are
people really going to verify that the release is actually buildable
and the artifacts match the SVN tag source when reviewing and voting
on release votes? No one reviewing is really likely to download 60
separate distros and build them all one by one are they?

   ...ant

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Re: [VOTE] Graduate ACE from the Apache Incubator

On 21 November 2011 14:41, ant elder antel...@apache.org wrote:
 On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 2:18 PM, Karl Pauls karlpa...@gmail.com wrote:
 On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 3:08 PM, ant elder antel...@apache.org wrote:
 Well IMHO i don't think this release demonstrates that the poddling
 has an understanding of making or reviewing ASF releases and thats the
 point of requiring releases during incubation.

 So you want us to do a new release? Fine, whatever, we can just roll a
 new release which has the source distribution configured. That was a
 mistake in the first place as it makes the bundles not easily
 individually buildable.

 However, we still will not have a combined source release as we want
 to be able to release our bundles individually. Is that the resolution
 then? All we have to do is a do a micro release with the source
 distribution configured on a per artifact level?


 I agree the requirement for a single source release doesn't seem
 totally clear, I've said I think you should have one and so has sebb,
 it would be good to hear what other Incubator PMC people think. I
 think you need one for two main reasons:

 1) The ASF deals with source and the releases are how users get hold
 of that source. If a user is going to do development with the released
 ACE source they likely aren't going to be able to do very much useful
 with just single things like org.apache.ace.repository.imp. At the
 very least they're probably going to want
 org.apache.ace.repository.api too but likely there is a big network of
 the 60 something ACE modules that anyone doing most non-trivial ACE
 development is going to want. One source distribution makes this easy,
 making them have to download them all separately isn't particularly
 practical. That https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator/ace/trunk/
 is structured so the ASF committers can work with them as one single
 buildable checkout i think shows thats true.

 2) If there is only individually buildable source for each jar how are
 people really going to verify that the release is actually buildable
 and the artifacts match the SVN tag source when reviewing and voting
 on release votes? No one reviewing is really likely to download 60
 separate distros and build them all one by one are they?

   ...ant

+1, agree totally, was just composing a similar reply.

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Re: [VOTE] Graduate ACE from the Apache Incubator

On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 3:03 PM, Richard S. Hall he...@ungoverned.org wrote:
 On 11/21/11 09:41 , ant elder wrote:

 On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 2:18 PM, Karl Paulskarlpa...@gmail.com  wrote:

 On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 3:08 PM, ant elderantel...@apache.org  wrote:

 Well IMHO i don't think this release demonstrates that the poddling
 has an understanding of making or reviewing ASF releases and thats the
 point of requiring releases during incubation.

 So you want us to do a new release? Fine, whatever, we can just roll a
 new release which has the source distribution configured. That was a
 mistake in the first place as it makes the bundles not easily
 individually buildable.

 However, we still will not have a combined source release as we want
 to be able to release our bundles individually. Is that the resolution
 then? All we have to do is a do a micro release with the source
 distribution configured on a per artifact level?

 I agree the requirement for a single source release doesn't seem
 totally clear, I've said I think you should have one and so has sebb,
 it would be good to hear what other Incubator PMC people think. I
 think you need one for two main reasons:

 1) The ASF deals with source and the releases are how users get hold
 of that source. If a user is going to do development with the released
 ACE source they likely aren't going to be able to do very much useful
 with just single things like org.apache.ace.repository.imp. At the
 very least they're probably going to want
 org.apache.ace.repository.api too but likely there is a big network of
 the 60 something ACE modules that anyone doing most non-trivial ACE
 development is going to want. One source distribution makes this easy,
 making them have to download them all separately isn't particularly
 practical. That https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator/ace/trunk/
 is structured so the ASF committers can work with them as one single
 buildable checkout i think shows thats true.

 2) If there is only individually buildable source for each jar how are
 people really going to verify that the release is actually buildable
 and the artifacts match the SVN tag source when reviewing and voting
 on release votes? No one reviewing is really likely to download 60
 separate distros and build them all one by one are they?

 I disagree. There seems to be some misunderstanding that there is one single
 product that must be built.

 When you develop independently evolving modules, big bang releases do not
 make sense. Each module has its own release cycle. Occasionally you may end
 up creating some sort of distribution out of the modules and release that,
 but that is just one potential distribution.


I agree thats an approach used and works in many projects but if that
was really the case _here_  then surely the SVN would be structured so
that there were separate trunk/branch/tag folders for each module,
there would have been more releases than just the single 0.8.0
release, and there would be separate release votes for each module
being released.

   ...ant

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Re: [VOTE] Graduate ACE from the Apache Incubator

2011-11-21 Thread Richard S. Hall


On 11/21/11 10:11 , ant elder wrote:

On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 3:03 PM, Richard S. Hallhe...@ungoverned.org  wrote:

On 11/21/11 09:41 , ant elder wrote:

On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 2:18 PM, Karl Paulskarlpa...@gmail.comwrote:

On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 3:08 PM, ant elderantel...@apache.orgwrote:

Well IMHO i don't think this release demonstrates that the poddling
has an understanding of making or reviewing ASF releases and thats the
point of requiring releases during incubation.

So you want us to do a new release? Fine, whatever, we can just roll a
new release which has the source distribution configured. That was a
mistake in the first place as it makes the bundles not easily
individually buildable.

However, we still will not have a combined source release as we want
to be able to release our bundles individually. Is that the resolution
then? All we have to do is a do a micro release with the source
distribution configured on a per artifact level?


I agree the requirement for a single source release doesn't seem
totally clear, I've said I think you should have one and so has sebb,
it would be good to hear what other Incubator PMC people think. I
think you need one for two main reasons:

1) The ASF deals with source and the releases are how users get hold
of that source. If a user is going to do development with the released
ACE source they likely aren't going to be able to do very much useful
with just single things like org.apache.ace.repository.imp. At the
very least they're probably going to want
org.apache.ace.repository.api too but likely there is a big network of
the 60 something ACE modules that anyone doing most non-trivial ACE
development is going to want. One source distribution makes this easy,
making them have to download them all separately isn't particularly
practical. That https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator/ace/trunk/
is structured so the ASF committers can work with them as one single
buildable checkout i think shows thats true.

2) If there is only individually buildable source for each jar how are
people really going to verify that the release is actually buildable
and the artifacts match the SVN tag source when reviewing and voting
on release votes? No one reviewing is really likely to download 60
separate distros and build them all one by one are they?

I disagree. There seems to be some misunderstanding that there is one single
product that must be built.

When you develop independently evolving modules, big bang releases do not
make sense. Each module has its own release cycle. Occasionally you may end
up creating some sort of distribution out of the modules and release that,
but that is just one potential distribution.


I agree thats an approach used and works in many projects but if that
was really the case _here_  then surely the SVN would be structured so
that there were separate trunk/branch/tag folders for each module,


Why do we need separate trunk/branch/tag folders for each module? We 
don't do it that way in Felix either. I don't see anything magical about 
having separate folders for each. Are you purely worried about the 
overhead of looking through a long directory listing?


- richard


there would have been more releases than just the single 0.8.0
release, and there would be separate release votes for each module
being released.

...ant

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Re: [VOTE] Graduate ACE from the Apache Incubator

On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 4:11 PM, ant elder ant.el...@gmail.com wrote:
 On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 3:03 PM, Richard S. Hall he...@ungoverned.org wrote:
 On 11/21/11 09:41 , ant elder wrote:

 On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 2:18 PM, Karl Paulskarlpa...@gmail.com  wrote:

 On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 3:08 PM, ant elderantel...@apache.org  wrote:

 Well IMHO i don't think this release demonstrates that the poddling
 has an understanding of making or reviewing ASF releases and thats the
 point of requiring releases during incubation.

 So you want us to do a new release? Fine, whatever, we can just roll a
 new release which has the source distribution configured. That was a
 mistake in the first place as it makes the bundles not easily
 individually buildable.

 However, we still will not have a combined source release as we want
 to be able to release our bundles individually. Is that the resolution
 then? All we have to do is a do a micro release with the source
 distribution configured on a per artifact level?

 I agree the requirement for a single source release doesn't seem
 totally clear, I've said I think you should have one and so has sebb,
 it would be good to hear what other Incubator PMC people think. I
 think you need one for two main reasons:

 1) The ASF deals with source and the releases are how users get hold
 of that source. If a user is going to do development with the released
 ACE source they likely aren't going to be able to do very much useful
 with just single things like org.apache.ace.repository.imp. At the
 very least they're probably going to want
 org.apache.ace.repository.api too but likely there is a big network of
 the 60 something ACE modules that anyone doing most non-trivial ACE
 development is going to want. One source distribution makes this easy,
 making them have to download them all separately isn't particularly
 practical. That https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator/ace/trunk/
 is structured so the ASF committers can work with them as one single
 buildable checkout i think shows thats true.

 2) If there is only individually buildable source for each jar how are
 people really going to verify that the release is actually buildable
 and the artifacts match the SVN tag source when reviewing and voting
 on release votes? No one reviewing is really likely to download 60
 separate distros and build them all one by one are they?

 I disagree. There seems to be some misunderstanding that there is one single
 product that must be built.

 When you develop independently evolving modules, big bang releases do not
 make sense. Each module has its own release cycle. Occasionally you may end
 up creating some sort of distribution out of the modules and release that,
 but that is just one potential distribution.


 I agree thats an approach used and works in many projects but if that
 was really the case _here_  then surely the SVN would be structured so
 that there were separate trunk/branch/tag folders for each module,
 there would have been more releases than just the single 0.8.0
 release, and there would be separate release votes for each module
 being released.

We have a tag per module and that is enough. Furthermore, we do
combine several modules if it makes sense (i.e., we want to release
them at the same time) in one vote as it would otherwise create a lot
of extra traffic. That's all. It is the same set-up some of the other
OSGi projects at the asf have (I did quite a lot of their releases).
The only thing we missed was the source distributions per artifact.

regards,

Karl

   ...ant

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-- 
Karl Pauls
karlpa...@gmail.com
http://twitter.com/karlpauls
http://www.linkedin.com/in/karlpauls
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Re: [VOTE] Graduate ACE from the Apache Incubator

2011-11-21 Thread Alex Karasulu

On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 5:18 PM, Karl Pauls karlpa...@gmail.com wrote:

 On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 4:11 PM, ant elder ant.el...@gmail.com wrote:
  On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 3:03 PM, Richard S. Hall he...@ungoverned.org
 wrote:
  On 11/21/11 09:41 , ant elder wrote:
 
  On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 2:18 PM, Karl Paulskarlpa...@gmail.com
  wrote:
 
  On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 3:08 PM, ant elderantel...@apache.org
  wrote:
 
  Well IMHO i don't think this release demonstrates that the poddling
  has an understanding of making or reviewing ASF releases and thats
 the
  point of requiring releases during incubation.
 
  So you want us to do a new release? Fine, whatever, we can just roll a
  new release which has the source distribution configured. That was a
  mistake in the first place as it makes the bundles not easily
  individually buildable.
 
  However, we still will not have a combined source release as we want
  to be able to release our bundles individually. Is that the resolution
  then? All we have to do is a do a micro release with the source
  distribution configured on a per artifact level?
 
  I agree the requirement for a single source release doesn't seem
  totally clear, I've said I think you should have one and so has sebb,
  it would be good to hear what other Incubator PMC people think. I
  think you need one for two main reasons:
 
  1) The ASF deals with source and the releases are how users get hold
  of that source. If a user is going to do development with the released
  ACE source they likely aren't going to be able to do very much useful
  with just single things like org.apache.ace.repository.imp. At the
  very least they're probably going to want
  org.apache.ace.repository.api too but likely there is a big network of
  the 60 something ACE modules that anyone doing most non-trivial ACE
  development is going to want. One source distribution makes this easy,
  making them have to download them all separately isn't particularly
  practical. That https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator/ace/trunk/
  is structured so the ASF committers can work with them as one single
  buildable checkout i think shows thats true.
 
  2) If there is only individually buildable source for each jar how are
  people really going to verify that the release is actually buildable
  and the artifacts match the SVN tag source when reviewing and voting
  on release votes? No one reviewing is really likely to download 60
  separate distros and build them all one by one are they?
 
  I disagree. There seems to be some misunderstanding that there is one
 single
  product that must be built.
 
  When you develop independently evolving modules, big bang releases do
 not
  make sense. Each module has its own release cycle. Occasionally you may
 end
  up creating some sort of distribution out of the modules and release
 that,
  but that is just one potential distribution.
 
 
  I agree thats an approach used and works in many projects but if that
  was really the case _here_  then surely the SVN would be structured so
  that there were separate trunk/branch/tag folders for each module,
  there would have been more releases than just the single 0.8.0
  release, and there would be separate release votes for each module
  being released.

 We have a tag per module and that is enough. Furthermore, we do
 combine several modules if it makes sense (i.e., we want to release
 them at the same time) in one vote as it would otherwise create a lot
 of extra traffic. That's all. It is the same set-up some of the other
 OSGi projects at the asf have (I did quite a lot of their releases).
 The only thing we missed was the source distributions per artifact.


And that IMHO is not enough to consider the release a failure. Let it be
noted and corrected for future releases. AFAIC there's no reason to hold
this podling back because of some minor release inconsistencies which are
natural as we shift from monolithic products to component based OSGi
products.

Best,
Alex

Re: [VOTE] Graduate ACE from the Apache Incubator

I'm confused.  In /dist/incubator/ace/, there appears
to be an *.incubator-sources.* file for each independent
module in the release.  Are those not actually what they
are advertised to be?  What exactly is the problem with
the previous release?





 From: Alex Karasulu akaras...@apache.org
To: general@incubator.apache.org 
Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 10:23 AM
Subject: Re: [VOTE] Graduate ACE from the Apache Incubator
 
On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 5:18 PM, Karl Pauls karlpa...@gmail.com wrote:

 On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 4:11 PM, ant elder ant.el...@gmail.com wrote:
  On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 3:03 PM, Richard S. Hall he...@ungoverned.org
 wrote:
  On 11/21/11 09:41 , ant elder wrote:
 
  On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 2:18 PM, Karl Paulskarlpa...@gmail.com
  wrote:
 
  On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 3:08 PM, ant elderantel...@apache.org
  wrote:
 
  Well IMHO i don't think this release demonstrates that the poddling
  has an understanding of making or reviewing ASF releases and thats
 the
  point of requiring releases during incubation.
 
  So you want us to do a new release? Fine, whatever, we can just roll a
  new release which has the source distribution configured. That was a
  mistake in the first place as it makes the bundles not easily
  individually buildable.
 
  However, we still will not have a combined source release as we want
  to be able to release our bundles individually. Is that the resolution
  then? All we have to do is a do a micro release with the source
  distribution configured on a per artifact level?
 
  I agree the requirement for a single source release doesn't seem
  totally clear, I've said I think you should have one and so has sebb,
  it would be good to hear what other Incubator PMC people think. I
  think you need one for two main reasons:
 
  1) The ASF deals with source and the releases are how users get hold
  of that source. If a user is going to do development with the released
  ACE source they likely aren't going to be able to do very much useful
  with just single things like org.apache.ace.repository.imp. At the
  very least they're probably going to want
  org.apache.ace.repository.api too but likely there is a big network of
  the 60 something ACE modules that anyone doing most non-trivial ACE
  development is going to want. One source distribution makes this easy,
  making them have to download them all separately isn't particularly
  practical. That https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator/ace/trunk/
  is structured so the ASF committers can work with them as one single
  buildable checkout i think shows thats true.
 
  2) If there is only individually buildable source for each jar how are
  people really going to verify that the release is actually buildable
  and the artifacts match the SVN tag source when reviewing and voting
  on release votes? No one reviewing is really likely to download 60
  separate distros and build them all one by one are they?
 
  I disagree. There seems to be some misunderstanding that there is one
 single
  product that must be built.
 
  When you develop independently evolving modules, big bang releases do
 not
  make sense. Each module has its own release cycle. Occasionally you may
 end
  up creating some sort of distribution out of the modules and release
 that,
  but that is just one potential distribution.
 
 
  I agree thats an approach used and works in many projects but if that
  was really the case _here_  then surely the SVN would be structured so
  that there were separate trunk/branch/tag folders for each module,
  there would have been more releases than just the single 0.8.0
  release, and there would be separate release votes for each module
  being released.

 We have a tag per module and that is enough. Furthermore, we do
 combine several modules if it makes sense (i.e., we want to release
 them at the same time) in one vote as it would otherwise create a lot
 of extra traffic. That's all. It is the same set-up some of the other
 OSGi projects at the asf have (I did quite a lot of their releases).
 The only thing we missed was the source distributions per artifact.


And that IMHO is not enough to consider the release a failure. Let it be
noted and corrected for future releases. AFAIC there's no reason to hold
this podling back because of some minor release inconsistencies which are
natural as we shift from monolithic products to component based OSGi
products.

Best,
Alex

Re: [VOTE] Graduate ACE from the Apache Incubator

On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 4:31 PM, Joe Schaefer joe_schae...@yahoo.com wrote:
 I'm confused.  In /dist/incubator/ace/, there appears
 to be an *.incubator-sources.* file for each independent
 module in the release.  Are those not actually what they
 are advertised to be?  What exactly is the problem with
 the previous release?

It has been argued that they are hard to build because they don't
contain the pom files (they are in the dist dir too, but as another
download). We forgot to configure that in the build. Typically, we
make it so that the source artifacts contain the pom as well so all
you have to do is to unzip the source distro of a module, cd into it,
and mvn clean install. In this case, you have to download the pom
first as well.

regards,

Karl



 From: Alex Karasulu akaras...@apache.org
To: general@incubator.apache.org
Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 10:23 AM
Subject: Re: [VOTE] Graduate ACE from the Apache Incubator

On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 5:18 PM, Karl Pauls karlpa...@gmail.com wrote:

 On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 4:11 PM, ant elder ant.el...@gmail.com wrote:
  On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 3:03 PM, Richard S. Hall he...@ungoverned.org
 wrote:
  On 11/21/11 09:41 , ant elder wrote:
 
  On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 2:18 PM, Karl Paulskarlpa...@gmail.com
  wrote:
 
  On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 3:08 PM, ant elderantel...@apache.org
  wrote:
 
  Well IMHO i don't think this release demonstrates that the poddling
  has an understanding of making or reviewing ASF releases and thats
 the
  point of requiring releases during incubation.
 
  So you want us to do a new release? Fine, whatever, we can just roll a
  new release which has the source distribution configured. That was a
  mistake in the first place as it makes the bundles not easily
  individually buildable.
 
  However, we still will not have a combined source release as we want
  to be able to release our bundles individually. Is that the resolution
  then? All we have to do is a do a micro release with the source
  distribution configured on a per artifact level?
 
  I agree the requirement for a single source release doesn't seem
  totally clear, I've said I think you should have one and so has sebb,
  it would be good to hear what other Incubator PMC people think. I
  think you need one for two main reasons:
 
  1) The ASF deals with source and the releases are how users get hold
  of that source. If a user is going to do development with the released
  ACE source they likely aren't going to be able to do very much useful
  with just single things like org.apache.ace.repository.imp. At the
  very least they're probably going to want
  org.apache.ace.repository.api too but likely there is a big network of
  the 60 something ACE modules that anyone doing most non-trivial ACE
  development is going to want. One source distribution makes this easy,
  making them have to download them all separately isn't particularly
  practical. That https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator/ace/trunk/
  is structured so the ASF committers can work with them as one single
  buildable checkout i think shows thats true.
 
  2) If there is only individually buildable source for each jar how are
  people really going to verify that the release is actually buildable
  and the artifacts match the SVN tag source when reviewing and voting
  on release votes? No one reviewing is really likely to download 60
  separate distros and build them all one by one are they?
 
  I disagree. There seems to be some misunderstanding that there is one
 single
  product that must be built.
 
  When you develop independently evolving modules, big bang releases do
 not
  make sense. Each module has its own release cycle. Occasionally you may
 end
  up creating some sort of distribution out of the modules and release
 that,
  but that is just one potential distribution.
 
 
  I agree thats an approach used and works in many projects but if that
  was really the case _here_  then surely the SVN would be structured so
  that there were separate trunk/branch/tag folders for each module,
  there would have been more releases than just the single 0.8.0
  release, and there would be separate release votes for each module
  being released.

 We have a tag per module and that is enough. Furthermore, we do
 combine several modules if it makes sense (i.e., we want to release
 them at the same time) in one vote as it would otherwise create a lot
 of extra traffic. That's all. It is the same set-up some of the other
 OSGi projects at the asf have (I did quite a lot of their releases).
 The only thing we missed was the source distributions per artifact.


And that IMHO is not enough to consider the release a failure. Let it be
noted and corrected for future releases. AFAIC there's no reason to hold
this podling back because of some minor release inconsistencies which are
natural as we shift from monolithic products to component based OSGi
products.

Best,
Alex






-- 
Karl

Fw: [VOTE] Graduate ACE from the Apache Incubator

- Forwarded Message -
From: Joe Schaefer joe_schae...@yahoo.com
To: Karl Pauls karlpa...@gmail.com; general@incubator.apache.org 
general@incubator.apache.org 
Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 10:44 AM
Subject: Re: [VOTE] Graduate ACE from the Apache Incubator

Hard to build isn't a blocking criterion
for a release; so long as the artifacts can
be built from the distributed source files
using a repeatable and documented process you
are ok in my book.  Downloading a pom from
an ASF mirror or from maven central doesn't
appearon the surface to be contradicting
what Iwrote in the first sentence here.

(Downloading from svn.a.o would be a problem
tho.)

In any case, if you can make building from
source more convenient for end-users, that
would certainly count as an improvement.
But holding up graduation until that is 

actually done makes zero sense to me.

 From: Karl Pauls karlpa...@gmail.com
To: general@incubator.apache.org; Joe Schaefer joe_schae...@yahoo.com 
Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 10:38 AM
Subject: Re: [VOTE] Graduate ACE from the Apache Incubator

On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 4:31 PM, Joe Schaefer joe_schae...@yahoo.com wrote:
 I'm confused.  In /dist/incubator/ace/, there appears
 to be an *.incubator-sources.* file for each independent
 module in the release.  Are those not actually what they
 are advertised to be?  What exactly is the problem with
 the previous release?

It has been argued that they are hard to build because they don't
contain the pom files (they are in the dist dir too, but as another
download). We forgot to configure that in the build. Typically, we
make it so that the source artifacts contain the pom as well so all
you have to do is to unzip the source distro of a module, cd into it,
and mvn clean install. In this case, you have to download the pom
first as
well.

regards,

Karl

 From: Alex Karasulu akaras...@apache.org
To: general@incubator.apache.org
Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 10:23 AM
Subject: Re: [VOTE] Graduate ACE from the Apache Incubator

On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 5:18 PM, Karl Pauls karlpa...@gmail.com wrote:

 On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 4:11 PM, ant elder ant.el...@gmail.com wrote:
  On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 3:03 PM, Richard S. Hall he...@ungoverned.org
 wrote:
  On 11/21/11 09:41 , ant elder wrote:

  On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 2:18 PM, Karl Paulskarlpa...@gmail.com
  wrote:

  On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 3:08 PM, ant elderantel...@apache.org
  wrote:

  Well IMHO i don't think this release demonstrates that the poddling
  has an understanding of making or reviewing ASF releases and thats
 the

 point of requiring releases during incubation.

  So you want us to do a new release? Fine, whatever, we can just roll 
  a
  new release which has the source distribution configured. That was a
  mistake in the first place as it makes the bundles not easily
  individually buildable.

  However, we still will not have a combined source release as we want
  to be able to release our bundles individually. Is that the 
  resolution
  then? All we have to do is a do a micro release with the source
  distribution configured on a per artifact level?

  I agree the requirement for
a single source release doesn't seem
  totally clear, I've said I think you should have one and so has sebb,
  it would be good to hear what other Incubator PMC people think. I
  think you need one for two main reasons:

  1) The ASF deals with source and the releases are how users get hold
  of that source. If a user is going to do development with the released
  ACE source they likely aren't going to be able to do very much useful
  with just single things like org.apache.ace.repository.imp. At the
  very least they're probably going to want
  org.apache.ace.repository.api too but likely there is a big network of
  the 60 something ACE modules that anyone
doing most non-trivial ACE
  development is going to want. One source distribution makes this easy,
  making them have to download them all separately isn't particularly
  practical. That https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator/ace/trunk/
  is structured so the ASF committers can work with them as one single
  buildable checkout i think shows thats true.

  2) If there is only individually buildable source for each jar how are
  people really going to verify that the release is actually buildable
  and the artifacts match the SVN tag source when reviewing and voting
  on release votes? No one reviewing
is really likely to download 60
  separate distros and build them all one by one are they?

  I disagree. There seems to be some misunderstanding that there is one
 single
  product that must be built.

  When you develop independently evolving modules, big bang releases do
 not
  make sense. Each module has its own release cycle. Occasionally you may
 end
  up creating some sort of distribution out of the modules and release
 that,
  but that is just one

Re: [VOTE] Graduate ACE from the Apache Incubator

On 21 November 2011 15:38, Karl Pauls karlpa...@gmail.com wrote:
 On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 4:31 PM, Joe Schaefer joe_schae...@yahoo.com wrote:
 I'm confused.  In /dist/incubator/ace/, there appears
 to be an *.incubator-sources.* file for each independent
 module in the release.  Are those not actually what they
 are advertised to be?  What exactly is the problem with
 the previous release?

 It has been argued that they are hard to build because they don't
 contain the pom files (they are in the dist dir too, but as another
 download). We forgot to configure that in the build. Typically, we
 make it so that the source artifacts contain the pom as well so all
 you have to do is to unzip the source distro of a module, cd into it,
 and mvn clean install. In this case, you have to download the pom
 first as well.

... and rename it.

Also the jars also don't include any unit tests.

 regards,

 Karl



 From: Alex Karasulu akaras...@apache.org
To: general@incubator.apache.org
Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 10:23 AM
Subject: Re: [VOTE] Graduate ACE from the Apache Incubator

On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 5:18 PM, Karl Pauls karlpa...@gmail.com wrote:

 On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 4:11 PM, ant elder ant.el...@gmail.com wrote:
  On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 3:03 PM, Richard S. Hall he...@ungoverned.org
 wrote:
  On 11/21/11 09:41 , ant elder wrote:
 
  On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 2:18 PM, Karl Paulskarlpa...@gmail.com
  wrote:
 
  On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 3:08 PM, ant elderantel...@apache.org
  wrote:
 
  Well IMHO i don't think this release demonstrates that the poddling
  has an understanding of making or reviewing ASF releases and thats
 the
  point of requiring releases during incubation.
 
  So you want us to do a new release? Fine, whatever, we can just roll a
  new release which has the source distribution configured. That was a
  mistake in the first place as it makes the bundles not easily
  individually buildable.
 
  However, we still will not have a combined source release as we want
  to be able to release our bundles individually. Is that the resolution
  then? All we have to do is a do a micro release with the source
  distribution configured on a per artifact level?
 
  I agree the requirement for a single source release doesn't seem
  totally clear, I've said I think you should have one and so has sebb,
  it would be good to hear what other Incubator PMC people think. I
  think you need one for two main reasons:
 
  1) The ASF deals with source and the releases are how users get hold
  of that source. If a user is going to do development with the released
  ACE source they likely aren't going to be able to do very much useful
  with just single things like org.apache.ace.repository.imp. At the
  very least they're probably going to want
  org.apache.ace.repository.api too but likely there is a big network of
  the 60 something ACE modules that anyone doing most non-trivial ACE
  development is going to want. One source distribution makes this easy,
  making them have to download them all separately isn't particularly
  practical. That https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator/ace/trunk/
  is structured so the ASF committers can work with them as one single
  buildable checkout i think shows thats true.
 
  2) If there is only individually buildable source for each jar how are
  people really going to verify that the release is actually buildable
  and the artifacts match the SVN tag source when reviewing and voting
  on release votes? No one reviewing is really likely to download 60
  separate distros and build them all one by one are they?
 
  I disagree. There seems to be some misunderstanding that there is one
 single
  product that must be built.
 
  When you develop independently evolving modules, big bang releases do
 not
  make sense. Each module has its own release cycle. Occasionally you may
 end
  up creating some sort of distribution out of the modules and release
 that,
  but that is just one potential distribution.
 
 
  I agree thats an approach used and works in many projects but if that
  was really the case _here_  then surely the SVN would be structured so
  that there were separate trunk/branch/tag folders for each module,
  there would have been more releases than just the single 0.8.0
  release, and there would be separate release votes for each module
  being released.

 We have a tag per module and that is enough. Furthermore, we do
 combine several modules if it makes sense (i.e., we want to release
 them at the same time) in one vote as it would otherwise create a lot
 of extra traffic. That's all. It is the same set-up some of the other
 OSGi projects at the asf have (I did quite a lot of their releases).
 The only thing we missed was the source distributions per artifact.


And that IMHO is not enough to consider the release a failure. Let it be
noted and corrected for future releases. AFAIC there's no reason to hold
this podling back because of some

Re: Fw: [VOTE] Graduate ACE from the Apache Incubator

On 21 November 2011 15:48, Joe Schaefer joe_schae...@yahoo.com wrote:

 - Forwarded Message -
From: Joe Schaefer joe_schae...@yahoo.com
To: Karl Pauls karlpa...@gmail.com; general@incubator.apache.org 
general@incubator.apache.org
Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 10:44 AM
Subject: Re: [VOTE] Graduate ACE from the Apache Incubator

Hard to build isn't a blocking criterion
for a release; so long as the artifacts can
be built from the distributed source files
using a repeatable and documented process you
are ok in my book.  Downloading a pom from
an ASF mirror or from maven central doesn't
appearon the surface to be contradicting
what Iwrote in the first sentence here.

(Downloading from svn.a.o would be a problem
tho.)

That is the case for the JUnit tests, which are not included in the
source jars as far as I can tell.

In any case, if you can make building from
source more convenient for end-users, that
would certainly count as an improvement.
But holding up graduation until that is

actually done makes zero sense to me.

 From: Karl Pauls karlpa...@gmail.com
To: general@incubator.apache.org; Joe Schaefer joe_schae...@yahoo.com
Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 10:38 AM
Subject: Re: [VOTE] Graduate ACE from the Apache Incubator

On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 4:31 PM, Joe Schaefer joe_schae...@yahoo.com wrote:
 I'm confused.  In /dist/incubator/ace/, there appears
 to be an *.incubator-sources.* file for each independent
 module in the release.  Are those not actually what they
 are advertised to be?  What exactly is the problem with
 the previous release?

It has been argued that they are hard to build because they don't
contain the pom files (they are in the dist dir too, but as another
download). We forgot to configure that in the build. Typically, we
make it so that the source artifacts contain the pom as well so all
you have to do is to unzip the source distro of a module, cd into it,
and mvn clean install. In this case, you have to download the pom
first as
 well.

regards,

Karl

 From: Alex Karasulu akaras...@apache.org
To: general@incubator.apache.org
Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 10:23 AM
Subject: Re: [VOTE] Graduate ACE from the Apache Incubator

On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 5:18 PM, Karl Pauls karlpa...@gmail.com wrote:

 On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 4:11 PM, ant elder ant.el...@gmail.com wrote:
  On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 3:03 PM, Richard S. Hall he...@ungoverned.org
 wrote:
  On 11/21/11 09:41 , ant elder wrote:

  On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 2:18 PM, Karl Paulskarlpa...@gmail.com
  wrote:

  On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 3:08 PM, ant elderantel...@apache.org
  wrote:

  Well IMHO i don't think this release demonstrates that the poddling
  has an understanding of making or reviewing ASF releases and thats
 the

 point of requiring releases during incubation.

  So you want us to do a new release? Fine, whatever, we can just 
  roll a
  new release which has the source distribution configured. That was a
  mistake in the first place as it makes the bundles not easily
  individually buildable.

  However, we still will not have a combined source release as we want
  to be able to release our bundles individually. Is that the 
  resolution
  then? All we have to do is a do a micro release with the source
  distribution configured on a per artifact level?

  I agree the requirement for
 a single source release doesn't seem
  totally clear, I've said I think you should have one and so has sebb,
  it would be good to hear what other Incubator PMC people think. I
  think you need one for two main reasons:

  1) The ASF deals with source and the releases are how users get hold
  of that source. If a user is going to do development with the 
  released
  ACE source they likely aren't going to be able to do very much useful
  with just single things like org.apache.ace.repository.imp. At the
  very least they're probably going to want
  org.apache.ace.repository.api too but likely there is a big network 
  of
  the 60 something ACE modules that anyone
 doing most non-trivial ACE
  development is going to want. One source distribution makes this 
  easy,
  making them have to download them all separately isn't particularly
  practical. That https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator/ace/trunk/
  is structured so the ASF committers can work with them as one single
  buildable checkout i think shows thats true.

  2) If there is only individually buildable source for each jar how 
  are
  people really going to verify that the release is actually buildable
  and the artifacts match the SVN tag source when reviewing and voting
  on release votes? No one reviewing
 is really likely to download 60
  separate distros and build them all one by one are they?

  I disagree. There seems to be some misunderstanding that there is one
 single
  product that must be built.

  When you develop independently evolving modules, big bang releases 
  do

Re: Fw: [VOTE] Graduate ACE from the Apache Incubator

Shipping tests is not a formal requirement of a release.
httpd certainly doesn't offer its test suite as part of
a release- you have to download that (from svn) yourself.

- Original Message -
 From: sebb seb...@gmail.com
 To: general@incubator.apache.org; Joe Schaefer joe_schae...@yahoo.com
 Cc: 
 Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 10:59 AM
 Subject: Re: Fw: [VOTE] Graduate ACE from the Apache Incubator

 On 21 November 2011 15:48, Joe Schaefer joe_schae...@yahoo.com wrote:

  - Forwarded Message -
 From: Joe Schaefer joe_schae...@yahoo.com
 To: Karl Pauls karlpa...@gmail.com; 
 general@incubator.apache.org general@incubator.apache.org
 Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 10:44 AM
 Subject: Re: [VOTE] Graduate ACE from the Apache Incubator

 Hard to build isn't a blocking criterion
 for a release; so long as the artifacts can
 be built from the distributed source files
 using a repeatable and documented process you
 are ok in my book.  Downloading a pom from
 an ASF mirror or from maven central doesn't
 appearon the surface to be contradicting
 what Iwrote in the first sentence here.

 (Downloading from svn.a.o would be a problem
 tho.)

 That is the case for the JUnit tests, which are not included in the
 source jars as far as I can tell.

 In any case, if you can make building from
 source more convenient for end-users, that
 would certainly count as an improvement.
 But holding up graduation until that is

 actually done makes zero sense to me.

  From: Karl Pauls karlpa...@gmail.com
 To: general@incubator.apache.org; Joe Schaefer 
 joe_schae...@yahoo.com
 Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 10:38 AM
 Subject: Re: [VOTE] Graduate ACE from the Apache Incubator

 On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 4:31 PM, Joe Schaefer 
 joe_schae...@yahoo.com wrote:
  I'm confused.  In /dist/incubator/ace/, there appears
  to be an *.incubator-sources.* file for each independent
  module in the release.  Are those not actually what they
  are advertised to be?  What exactly is the problem with
  the previous release?

 It has been argued that they are hard to build because they 
 don't
 contain the pom files (they are in the dist dir too, but as another
 download). We forgot to configure that in the build. Typically, we
 make it so that the source artifacts contain the pom as well so all
 you have to do is to unzip the source distro of a module, cd into 
 it,
 and mvn clean install. In this case, you have to download the pom
 first as
  well.

 regards,

 Karl

  From: Alex Karasulu akaras...@apache.org
 To: general@incubator.apache.org
 Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 10:23 AM
 Subject: Re: [VOTE] Graduate ACE from the Apache Incubator

 On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 5:18 PM, Karl Pauls 
 karlpa...@gmail.com wrote:

  On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 4:11 PM, ant elder 
 ant.el...@gmail.com wrote:
   On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 3:03 PM, Richard S. Hall 
 he...@ungoverned.org
  wrote:
   On 11/21/11 09:41 , ant elder wrote:

   On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 2:18 PM, Karl 
 Paulskarlpa...@gmail.com
   wrote:

   On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 3:08 PM, ant 
 elderantel...@apache.org
   wrote:

   Well IMHO i don't think this 
 release demonstrates that the poddling
   has an understanding of making or 
 reviewing ASF releases and thats
  the

  point of requiring releases during incubation.

   So you want us to do a new release? 
 Fine, whatever, we can just roll a
   new release which has the source 
 distribution configured. That was a
   mistake in the first place as it makes 
 the bundles not easily
   individually buildable.

   However, we still will not have a 
 combined source release as we want
   to be able to release our bundles 
 individually. Is that the resolution
   then? All we have to do is a do a 
 micro release with the source
   distribution configured on a per 
 artifact level?

   I agree the requirement for
  a single source release doesn't seem
   totally clear, I've said I think you 
 should have one and so has sebb,
   it would be good to hear what other 
 Incubator PMC people think. I
   think you need one for two main reasons:

   1) The ASF deals with source and the 
 releases are how users get hold
   of that source. If a user is going to do 
 development with the released
   ACE source they likely aren't going to 
 be able to do very much useful
   with just single things like 
 org.apache.ace.repository.imp. At the
   very least they're probably going to 
 want
   org.apache.ace.repository.api too but 
 likely there is a big network of
   the 60 something ACE modules that anyone
  doing most non-trivial ACE
   development is going to want. One source 
 distribution makes this easy,
   making them have to download them all 
 separately isn't particularly
   practical. That 
 https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator/ace/trunk/
   is structured so the ASF committers can 
 work with them as one single

Re: Fw: [VOTE] Graduate ACE from the Apache Incubator

2011-11-21 Thread Carsten Ziegeler

I still think that the release is a proper release - as Karl explained
we could have done better source releases per module etc., but there
is nothing fundamentally wrong.
I don't think that these issues should block the project from graduation either.

Carsten
-- 
Carsten Ziegeler
cziege...@apache.org

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Re: [VOTE] Graduate ACE from the Apache Incubator

2011-11-21 Thread Guillaume Nodet

+1

On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 11:42, Marcel Offermans marcel.offerm...@luminis.nl
 wrote:

 In my opinion, ACE is ready to begin the process of graduating from the
 Apache Incubator to a Top Level Project.

 Since joining the incubator in in May 2009 we've added 4 new committers
 (12 in total now) from diverse organizations and did a release in May this
 year to demonstrate we follow the Apache guidelines. We've shown an ability
 to self-govern using accepted Apache practices and ACE continues to attract
 new contributors and users.

 The first step is to vote as a community, demonstrating that ACE is ready
 and willing to graduate. Once this vote is succesful we create a board
 resolution proposal or Charter and start a vote on the general incubator
 list. The full process is described at
 http://incubator.apache.org/guides/graduation.html#toplevel

 The vote is open for at least 72 hours.

 Greetings, Marcel




-- 

Guillaume Nodet

Blog: http://gnodet.blogspot.com/

Open Source SOA
http://fusesource.com

Re: Fw: [VOTE] Graduate ACE from the Apache Incubator

2011-11-21 Thread Benson Margulies

Speaking wearing a hat:

There is no requirement for monolithic releases. The project can
choose whatever units it likes to release, so long as each one of them
is fully buildable from the materials voted on in the release. If they
want to hold one vote on 400 of them, well, it casts some doubt on
whether the voters actually tried them all, but then again many TLPs
inspire doubt in my mind as to whether voters are actually testing all
the source packages.



On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 11:52 AM,  dav...@apache.org wrote:
 Totally agree.

 Best regards,

 David Bosschaert

 On 21 November 2011 16:32, Carsten Ziegeler cziege...@apache.org wrote:
 I still think that the release is a proper release - as Karl explained
 we could have done better source releases per module etc., but there
 is nothing fundamentally wrong.
 I don't think that these issues should block the project from graduation 
 either.

 Carsten
 --
 Carsten Ziegeler
 cziege...@apache.org

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Re: Fw: [VOTE] Graduate ACE from the Apache Incubator

Gosh. Well perhaps its me that needs to go back to school then. But i
find this most unexpected. The ASF FAQ on what is a release says All
releases are in the form of the source materials needed to make
changes to the software being released. if no unit tests are included
in the source release can anyone seriously be expected to be able to
make non-trivial changes to the source? I now wonder what is the point
of the source release at all, other than IDE debugging or reading
APIs, for real development you'd ave to get the SVN tag. And there is
the how to vote on the release artifacts too, other than checking
theres no compile errors how do release reviewers know the release is
good, or with 60 something modules to manually build is there really
any expectation that anyone other than the RM even attempts a build?

   ...ant


On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 4:02 PM, Joe Schaefer joe_schae...@yahoo.com wrote:
 Shipping tests is not a formal requirement of a release.
 httpd certainly doesn't offer its test suite as part of
 a release- you have to download that (from svn) yourself.



 - Original Message -
 From: sebb seb...@gmail.com
 To: general@incubator.apache.org; Joe Schaefer joe_schae...@yahoo.com
 Cc:
 Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 10:59 AM
 Subject: Re: Fw: [VOTE] Graduate ACE from the Apache Incubator

 On 21 November 2011 15:48, Joe Schaefer joe_schae...@yahoo.com wrote:




  - Forwarded Message -
 From: Joe Schaefer joe_schae...@yahoo.com
 To: Karl Pauls karlpa...@gmail.com;
 general@incubator.apache.org general@incubator.apache.org
 Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 10:44 AM
 Subject: Re: [VOTE] Graduate ACE from the Apache Incubator


 Hard to build isn't a blocking criterion
 for a release; so long as the artifacts can
 be built from the distributed source files
 using a repeatable and documented process you
 are ok in my book.  Downloading a pom from
 an ASF mirror or from maven central doesn't
 appearon the surface to be contradicting
 what Iwrote in the first sentence here.

 (Downloading from svn.a.o would be a problem
 tho.)

 That is the case for the JUnit tests, which are not included in the
 source jars as far as I can tell.


 In any case, if you can make building from
 source more convenient for end-users, that
 would certainly count as an improvement.
 But holding up graduation until that is

 actually done makes zero sense to me.






 
  From: Karl Pauls karlpa...@gmail.com
 To: general@incubator.apache.org; Joe Schaefer
 joe_schae...@yahoo.com
 Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 10:38 AM
 Subject: Re: [VOTE] Graduate ACE from the Apache Incubator

 On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 4:31 PM, Joe Schaefer
 joe_schae...@yahoo.com wrote:
  I'm confused.  In /dist/incubator/ace/, there appears
  to be an *.incubator-sources.* file for each independent
  module in the release.  Are those not actually what they
  are advertised to be?  What exactly is the problem with
  the previous release?

 It has been argued that they are hard to build because they
 don't
 contain the pom files (they are in the dist dir too, but as another
 download). We forgot to configure that in the build. Typically, we
 make it so that the source artifacts contain the pom as well so all
 you have to do is to unzip the source distro of a module, cd into
 it,
 and mvn clean install. In this case, you have to download the pom
 first as
  well.

 regards,

 Karl


 
  From: Alex Karasulu akaras...@apache.org
 To: general@incubator.apache.org
 Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 10:23 AM
 Subject: Re: [VOTE] Graduate ACE from the Apache Incubator

 On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 5:18 PM, Karl Pauls
 karlpa...@gmail.com wrote:

  On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 4:11 PM, ant elder
 ant.el...@gmail.com wrote:
   On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 3:03 PM, Richard S. Hall
 he...@ungoverned.org
  wrote:
   On 11/21/11 09:41 , ant elder wrote:
  
   On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 2:18 PM, Karl
 Paulskarlpa...@gmail.com
   wrote:
  
   On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 3:08 PM, ant
 elderantel...@apache.org
   wrote:
  
   Well IMHO i don't think this
 release demonstrates that the poddling
   has an understanding of making or
 reviewing ASF releases and thats
  the

  point of requiring releases during incubation.
  
   So you want us to do a new release?
 Fine, whatever, we can just roll a
   new release which has the source
 distribution configured. That was a
   mistake in the first place as it makes
 the bundles not easily
   individually buildable.
  
   However, we still will not have a
 combined source release as we want
   to be able to release our bundles
 individually. Is that the resolution
   then? All we have to do is a do a
 micro release with the source
   distribution configured on a per
 artifact level?
  
   I agree the requirement for
  a single source release doesn't seem
   totally clear, I've said I think you
 should have one and so has sebb,
   it would be good to hear what other

Re: Fw: [VOTE] Graduate ACE from the Apache Incubator

2011-11-21 Thread Benson Margulies

On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 12:11 PM, ant elder ant.el...@gmail.com wrote:
 Gosh. Well perhaps its me that needs to go back to school then. But i
 find this most unexpected. The ASF FAQ on what is a release says All
 releases are in the form of the source materials needed to make
 changes to the software being released. if no unit tests are included
 in the source release can anyone seriously be expected to be able to
 make non-trivial changes to the source? I now wonder what is the point
 of the source release at all, other than IDE debugging or reading
 APIs, for real development you'd ave to get the SVN tag. And there is
 the how to vote on the release artifacts too, other than checking
 theres no compile errors how do release reviewers know the release is
 good, or with 60 something modules to manually build is there really
 any expectation that anyone other than the RM even attempts a build?

I didn't say that I was happy about the missing tests or the state of
svn or anything else, just that there's no requirement that a TLP make
monolithic releases.

This is kind of an extreme case. I think that Joe and I are thinking
about Maven: lots of little plugin modules, no monolithic release at
all. On the other hand, no vote involving all of them all at once.

If ACE's target model looks like maven (many components releasing on
decoupled schedules), then the requirement is that the process of
releasing each component is conformant.

If ACE's target model is to release a giant school of fish all at once
every time, I do share some concern.

On the other hand, where have we been all this time? They've shipped
as many releases as they've shipped, and gotten votes from this PMC,
and now, at the time of the graduation vote, all this produces a ton
of email?

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Re: Fw: [VOTE] Graduate ACE from the Apache Incubator

On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 5:17 PM, Benson Margulies bimargul...@gmail.com wrote:


 On the other hand, where have we been all this time? They've shipped
 as many releases as they've shipped, and gotten votes from this PMC,
 and now, at the time of the graduation vote, all this produces a ton
 of email?


I agree with that point so for me at least I'll stop replying on this
thread and continue on the board@ source thread or start other ones
here on general@.

   ...ant

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Re: Fw: [VOTE] Graduate ACE from the Apache Incubator

2011-11-21 Thread Guillaume Nodet

That's really a good question.   I'm using apache projects a lot but I've
never downloaded a single source release since ages, mostly using svn to
checkout / build, or maven source jars for debugging within the ide as you
said.
I know it's a requirement, but it's not very useful for certain kind of
projects imho..


On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 18:11, ant elder ant.el...@gmail.com wrote:

 Gosh. Well perhaps its me that needs to go back to school then. But i
 find this most unexpected. The ASF FAQ on what is a release says All
 releases are in the form of the source materials needed to make
 changes to the software being released. if no unit tests are included
 in the source release can anyone seriously be expected to be able to
 make non-trivial changes to the source? I now wonder what is the point
 of the source release at all, other than IDE debugging or reading
 APIs, for real development you'd ave to get the SVN tag. And there is
 the how to vote on the release artifacts too, other than checking
 theres no compile errors how do release reviewers know the release is
 good, or with 60 something modules to manually build is there really
 any expectation that anyone other than the RM even attempts a build?

   ...ant


 On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 4:02 PM, Joe Schaefer joe_schae...@yahoo.com
 wrote:
  Shipping tests is not a formal requirement of a release.
  httpd certainly doesn't offer its test suite as part of
  a release- you have to download that (from svn) yourself.
 
 
 
  - Original Message -
  From: sebb seb...@gmail.com
  To: general@incubator.apache.org; Joe Schaefer joe_schae...@yahoo.com
  Cc:
  Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 10:59 AM
  Subject: Re: Fw: [VOTE] Graduate ACE from the Apache Incubator
 
  On 21 November 2011 15:48, Joe Schaefer joe_schae...@yahoo.com wrote:
 
 
 
 
   - Forwarded Message -
  From: Joe Schaefer joe_schae...@yahoo.com
  To: Karl Pauls karlpa...@gmail.com;
  general@incubator.apache.org general@incubator.apache.org
  Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 10:44 AM
  Subject: Re: [VOTE] Graduate ACE from the Apache Incubator
 
 
  Hard to build isn't a blocking criterion
  for a release; so long as the artifacts can
  be built from the distributed source files
  using a repeatable and documented process you
  are ok in my book.  Downloading a pom from
  an ASF mirror or from maven central doesn't
  appearon the surface to be contradicting
  what Iwrote in the first sentence here.
 
  (Downloading from svn.a.o would be a problem
  tho.)
 
  That is the case for the JUnit tests, which are not included in the
  source jars as far as I can tell.
 
 
  In any case, if you can make building from
  source more convenient for end-users, that
  would certainly count as an improvement.
  But holding up graduation until that is
 
  actually done makes zero sense to me.
 
 
 
 
 
 
  
   From: Karl Pauls karlpa...@gmail.com
  To: general@incubator.apache.org; Joe Schaefer
  joe_schae...@yahoo.com
  Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 10:38 AM
  Subject: Re: [VOTE] Graduate ACE from the Apache Incubator
 
  On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 4:31 PM, Joe Schaefer
  joe_schae...@yahoo.com wrote:
   I'm confused.  In /dist/incubator/ace/, there appears
   to be an *.incubator-sources.* file for each independent
   module in the release.  Are those not actually what they
   are advertised to be?  What exactly is the problem with
   the previous release?
 
  It has been argued that they are hard to build because they
  don't
  contain the pom files (they are in the dist dir too, but as another
  download). We forgot to configure that in the build. Typically, we
  make it so that the source artifacts contain the pom as well so all
  you have to do is to unzip the source distro of a module, cd into
  it,
  and mvn clean install. In this case, you have to download the pom
  first as
   well.
 
  regards,
 
  Karl
 
 
  
   From: Alex Karasulu akaras...@apache.org
  To: general@incubator.apache.org
  Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 10:23 AM
  Subject: Re: [VOTE] Graduate ACE from the Apache Incubator
 
  On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 5:18 PM, Karl Pauls
  karlpa...@gmail.com wrote:
 
   On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 4:11 PM, ant elder
  ant.el...@gmail.com wrote:
On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 3:03 PM, Richard S. Hall
  he...@ungoverned.org
   wrote:
On 11/21/11 09:41 , ant elder wrote:
   
On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 2:18 PM, Karl
  Paulskarlpa...@gmail.com
wrote:
   
On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 3:08 PM, ant
  elderantel...@apache.org
wrote:
   
Well IMHO i don't think this
  release demonstrates that the poddling
has an understanding of making or
  reviewing ASF releases and thats
   the
 
   point of requiring releases during incubation.
   
So you want us to do a new release?
  Fine, whatever, we can just roll a
new release which has the source
  distribution configured. That was a
mistake in the first place

Re: Fw: [VOTE] Graduate ACE from the Apache Incubator

2011-11-21 Thread William A. Rowe Jr.


On 11/21/2011 11:11 AM, Benson Margulies wrote:

Speaking wearing a hat:

There is no requirement for monolithic releases. The project can
choose whatever units it likes to release, so long as each one of them
is fully buildable from the materials voted on in the release. If they
want to hold one vote on 400 of them, well, it casts some doubt on
whether the voters actually tried them all, but then again many TLPs
inspire doubt in my mind as to whether voters are actually testing all
the source packages.


If a project is creating 400 discrete releases, this sounds to me
like an umbrella project.  Consider the ability to announce that
a new release has occurred, and the frequency with which those would
be broadcast.

There's nothing wrong with a release model which provides for updated
components within a much larger project, on a faster release cycle,
but clear documentation of which have been updated and which components
are still at their older revision that was previously approved.

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Re: Fw: [VOTE] Graduate ACE from the Apache Incubator

2011-11-21 Thread Marvin Humphrey

On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 05:11:37PM +, ant elder wrote:
 I now wonder what is the point of the source release at all, other than IDE
 debugging or reading APIs, for real development you'd ave to get the SVN
 tag.

I recall some very lengthy threads in 2007-2009 regarding whether our source
code repositories constitute a distribution.  Our first line of defense is
that they are meant only for developers.

If an ASF project releases a product without accompanying full source, meaning
that users are forced to go to the repository to get the source code, that
weakens the legal protections upon which we all depend, no?

Marvin Humphrey


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Re: Fw: [VOTE] Graduate ACE from the Apache Incubator

2011-11-21 Thread Alex Karasulu

On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 7:26 PM, Guillaume Nodet gno...@gmail.com wrote:

 That's really a good question.   I'm using apache projects a lot but I've
 never downloaded a single source release since ages, mostly using svn to
 checkout / build, or maven source jars for debugging within the ide as you
 said.
 I know it's a requirement, but it's not very useful for certain kind of
 projects imho..


Plus if I am going to make a bug fix or add a feature that I intend to
contribute back I will do it as a diff patch which I generate from version
control.

So having the sources in a release is worthless for me. Knowing the tag is
what I need to work the source, produce a patch and submit that back to the
community.

Regards,
Alex

Re: [VOTE] Graduate ACE from the Apache Incubator

2011-11-21 Thread Marcel Offermans

On Nov 21, 2011, at 18:28 PM, William A. Rowe Jr. wrote:
 On 11/21/2011 11:11 AM, Benson Margulies wrote:
 Speaking wearing a hat:
 
 There is no requirement for monolithic releases. The project can
 choose whatever units it likes to release, so long as each one of them
 is fully buildable from the materials voted on in the release. If they
 want to hold one vote on 400 of them, well, it casts some doubt on
 whether the voters actually tried them all, but then again many TLPs
 inspire doubt in my mind as to whether voters are actually testing all
 the source packages.
 
 If a project is creating 400 discrete releases, this sounds to me
 like an umbrella project.  Consider the ability to announce that
 a new release has occurred, and the frequency with which those would
 be broadcast.
 
 There's nothing wrong with a release model which provides for updated
 components within a much larger project, on a faster release cycle,
 but clear documentation of which have been updated and which components
 are still at their older revision that was previously approved.

This last paragraph is an accurate description of how we setup ACE. It is built 
out of components that are assembled in different ways at runtime (using OSGi). 
The components themselves embed enough metadata to ensure that (even without 
access to the sourcecode or documentation) they can be assembled succesfully. 
Like other modular projects within Apache, it is setup so we can easily release 
individual components.

Greetings, Marcel


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Re: Fw: [VOTE] Graduate ACE from the Apache Incubator

Please, let's not try to redefine the notion of an open source release.
The fact that you personally don't give a shit about the distribution
of sources outside subversion doesn't mean the rest of the world feels
as you do about it.

- Original Message -
 From: Alex Karasulu akaras...@apache.org
 To: general@incubator.apache.org
 Cc: 
 Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 12:32 PM
 Subject: Re: Fw: [VOTE] Graduate ACE from the Apache Incubator

 On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 7:26 PM, Guillaume Nodet gno...@gmail.com wrote:

  That's really a good question.   I'm using apache projects a lot 
 but I've
  never downloaded a single source release since ages, mostly using svn to
  checkout / build, or maven source jars for debugging within the ide as you
  said.
  I know it's a requirement, but it's not very useful for certain 
 kind of
  projects imho..

 Plus if I am going to make a bug fix or add a feature that I intend to
 contribute back I will do it as a diff patch which I generate from version
 control.

 So having the sources in a release is worthless for me. Knowing the tag is
 what I need to work the source, produce a patch and submit that back to the
 community.

 Regards,
 Alex

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Re: [VOTE] Graduate ACE from the Apache Incubator

2011-11-21 Thread Carsten Ziegeler

2011/11/21 Marcel Offermans marcel.offerm...@luminis.nl:


 This last paragraph is an accurate description of how we setup ACE. It is 
 built out of components that are assembled in different ways at runtime 
 (using OSGi). The components themselves embed enough metadata to ensure that 
 (even without access to the sourcecode or documentation) they can be 
 assembled succesfully. Like other modular projects within Apache, it is setup 
 so we can easily release individual components.

And the idea is once you have a set of modules released for the first
time, you just release the module which you think is ready to go.
Picking up the analogy with Maven, the first Maven release required
not only the core but all plugins to be released (they did it
differently than ACE but that's not the point). Once Maven was out
with all its core plugins, just new plugins were released from time to
time, or existing one were updated etc.

Regards
Carsten


 Greetings, Marcel


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-- 
Carsten Ziegeler
cziege...@apache.org

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Re: [VOTE] Graduate ACE from the Apache Incubator

2011-11-20 Thread ant elder

That seems an unusual approach to building the src. It also means that
to build the complete 0.8.0 release which contains 60 something
modules would require manually typing in over 400 commands which is
not very practical, i doubt anyone who voted +1 for the release
actually did that. I think an ASF release like this should have also
had a single source distribution that contained all the source for all
those modules along with a build script to build them, and IMHO your
mentors should have helped you do that. Would you consider doing
another release like this before you graduate?

...ant

regards,

Karl

...ant

regards,

Karl

AFAICT the full source (as in SVN trunk) is not actually present in
the distribution directory.

For example, where are the top-level files in SVN (BUILDING, README) ?
And the etc/ directory?

If I wanted to build any or all of the components, there does not
appear to be a way to do this from the files in the distribution.

The ASF primarily releases source; releases must include full source.

I agree about the KEYS file. We should have uploaded it to the dist
dir as well but at least we have it at some place so it should be easy
to fix.

regards,

Karl

Since joining the incubator in in May 2009 we've added 4 new committers
(12 in total now) from diverse organizations and did a release in May
this year to demonstrate we follow the Apache guidelines. We've shown
an ability to self-govern using accepted Apache practices and ACE
continues to attract new contributors and users.

The vote is open for at least 72 hours.

The last (and only) release was 0.8, as far as I can tell.

Normally releases are divided into binaries/ and source/ directories,
with a KEYS file in the top-level, i.e.

/dist/incubator/ace
- KEYS
- binaries/ace zip
- sources/acezip

Most of the files in the /dist/incubator/ace directory appear to be
Maven artifacts; normally these are not stored in /dist but only in
the Maven repo.
Indeed most of the files are also in Maven Central. The only

Re: [VOTE] Graduate ACE from the Apache Incubator

2011-11-18 Thread Alan D. Cabrera

+1  binding


Regards,
Alan

On Nov 17, 2011, at 2:42 AM, Marcel Offermans wrote:

 In my opinion, ACE is ready to begin the process of graduating from the 
 Apache Incubator to a Top Level Project.
 
 Since joining the incubator in in May 2009 we've added 4 new committers (12 
 in total now) from diverse organizations and did a release in May this year 
 to demonstrate we follow the Apache guidelines. We've shown an ability to 
 self-govern using accepted Apache practices and ACE continues to attract new 
 contributors and users.
 
 The first step is to vote as a community, demonstrating that ACE is ready and 
 willing to graduate. Once this vote is succesful we create a board resolution 
 proposal or Charter and start a vote on the general incubator list. The full 
 process is described at 
 http://incubator.apache.org/guides/graduation.html#toplevel
 
 The vote is open for at least 72 hours.
 
 Greetings, Marcel
 


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Re: [VOTE] Graduate ACE from the Apache Incubator

2011-11-18 Thread Julien Vermillard

+1 binding

On Friday, November 18, 2011, Alan D. Cabrera l...@toolazydogs.com wrote:
 +1  binding


 Regards,
 Alan

 On Nov 17, 2011, at 2:42 AM, Marcel Offermans wrote:

 In my opinion, ACE is ready to begin the process of graduating from the
Apache Incubator to a Top Level Project.

 Since joining the incubator in in May 2009 we've added 4 new committers
(12 in total now) from diverse organizations and did a release in May this
year to demonstrate we follow the Apache guidelines. We've shown an ability
to self-govern using accepted Apache practices and ACE continues to attract
new contributors and users.

 The first step is to vote as a community, demonstrating that ACE is
ready and willing to graduate. Once this vote is succesful we create a
board resolution proposal or Charter and start a vote on the general
incubator list. The full process is described at
http://incubator.apache.org/guides/graduation.html#toplevel

 The vote is open for at least 72 hours.

 Greetings, Marcel



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 To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org
 For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org

[VOTE] Graduate ACE from the Apache Incubator

2011-11-17 Thread Marcel Offermans

In my opinion, ACE is ready to begin the process of graduating from the Apache 
Incubator to a Top Level Project.

Since joining the incubator in in May 2009 we've added 4 new committers (12 in 
total now) from diverse organizations and did a release in May this year to 
demonstrate we follow the Apache guidelines. We've shown an ability to 
self-govern using accepted Apache practices and ACE continues to attract new 
contributors and users.

The first step is to vote as a community, demonstrating that ACE is ready and 
willing to graduate. Once this vote is succesful we create a board resolution 
proposal or Charter and start a vote on the general incubator list. The full 
process is described at 
http://incubator.apache.org/guides/graduation.html#toplevel

The vote is open for at least 72 hours.

Greetings, Marcel

Re: [VOTE] Graduate ACE from the Apache Incubator

2011-11-17 Thread Jean-Baptiste Onofré


+1

Regards
JB

On 11/17/2011 11:42 AM, Marcel Offermans wrote:

In my opinion, ACE is ready to begin the process of graduating from the Apache 
Incubator to a Top Level Project.

Since joining the incubator in in May 2009 we've added 4 new committers (12 in 
total now) from diverse organizations and did a release in May this year to 
demonstrate we follow the Apache guidelines. We've shown an ability to 
self-govern using accepted Apache practices and ACE continues to attract new 
contributors and users.

The first step is to vote as a community, demonstrating that ACE is ready and 
willing to graduate. Once this vote is succesful we create a board resolution 
proposal or Charter and start a vote on the general incubator list. The full 
process is described at 
http://incubator.apache.org/guides/graduation.html#toplevel

The vote is open for at least 72 hours.

Greetings, Marcel




--
Jean-Baptiste Onofré
jbono...@apache.org
http://blog.nanthrax.net
Talend - http://www.talend.com

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Re: [VOTE] Graduate ACE from the Apache Incubator

2011-11-17 Thread Alexander Broekhuis

Great news, succes with this!

+1

2011/11/17 Jean-Baptiste Onofré j...@nanthrax.net

 +1

 Regards
 JB


 On 11/17/2011 11:42 AM, Marcel Offermans wrote:

 In my opinion, ACE is ready to begin the process of graduating from the
 Apache Incubator to a Top Level Project.

 Since joining the incubator in in May 2009 we've added 4 new committers
 (12 in total now) from diverse organizations and did a release in May this
 year to demonstrate we follow the Apache guidelines. We've shown an ability
 to self-govern using accepted Apache practices and ACE continues to attract
 new contributors and users.

 The first step is to vote as a community, demonstrating that ACE is ready
 and willing to graduate. Once this vote is succesful we create a board
 resolution proposal or Charter and start a vote on the general incubator
 list. The full process is described at http://incubator.apache.org/**
 guides/graduation.html#**toplevelhttp://incubator.apache.org/guides/graduation.html#toplevel

 The vote is open for at least 72 hours.

 Greetings, Marcel



 --
 Jean-Baptiste Onofré
 jbono...@apache.org
 http://blog.nanthrax.net
 Talend - http://www.talend.com

 --**--**-
 To unsubscribe, e-mail: 
 general-unsubscribe@incubator.**apache.orggeneral-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org
 For additional commands, e-mail: 
 general-help@incubator.apache.**orggeneral-h...@incubator.apache.org




-- 
Met vriendelijke groet,

Alexander Broekhuis

Re: [VOTE] Graduate ACE from the Apache Incubator

On 17 November 2011 10:42, Marcel Offermans marcel.offerm...@luminis.nl wrote:
 In my opinion, ACE is ready to begin the process of graduating from the 
 Apache Incubator to a Top Level Project.

 Since joining the incubator in in May 2009 we've added 4 new committers (12 
 in total now) from diverse organizations and did a release in May this year 
 to demonstrate we follow the Apache guidelines. We've shown an ability to 
 self-govern using accepted Apache practices and ACE continues to attract new 
 contributors and users.

 The first step is to vote as a community, demonstrating that ACE is ready and 
 willing to graduate. Once this vote is succesful we create a board resolution 
 proposal or Charter and start a vote on the general incubator list. The full 
 process is described at 
 http://incubator.apache.org/guides/graduation.html#toplevel

 The vote is open for at least 72 hours.

The last (and only) release was 0.8, as far as I can tell.

There is no KEYS file in http://www.apache.org/dist/incubator/ace/,
and there does not appear to be a full source archive of the project
anywhere.
The download page does not have a link to any source archives as far
as I can tell.
It does link to KEYS in SVN, but almost all other ASF projects have a
copy of KEYS in the appropriate /dist directory.

Normally releases are divided into binaries/ and source/ directories,
with a KEYS file in the top-level, i.e.

/dist/incubator/ace
- KEYS
- binaries/ace zip
- sources/acezip

Most of the files in the /dist/incubator/ace directory appear to be
Maven artifacts; normally these are not stored in /dist but only in
the Maven repo.
Indeed most of the files are also in Maven Central. The only non-Maven
files appear to be

org.apache.ace.target.devgateway-0.8.0-incubator-distribution.zip
org.apache.ace.target.devserver-0.8.0-incubator-distribution.zip

neither of which contains the source.

I would expect the above zips to be in

/dist/incubator/ace/binaries

with corresponding source files in

/dist/incubator/ace/source

The SVN layout [1] is also a bit unusual.
There is no tags/ directory for release tags, although there is a
releases/ directory containing individual entries for each release for
each component.
This is likely to become unmanageable very quickly, if every release
adds another 63 directory entries under releases/

[1] https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator/ace/

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To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org
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Re: [VOTE] Graduate ACE from the Apache Incubator

I'm not sure what this has to do with the graduation vote. The release
as such has been accepted by the incubator pmc and there only need to
be one release. The source for each artifact is there, it is just per
artifact in the -source.jar.

There might be different set-up then a lot of other projects have it
but we release our stuff on a per artifact basis how it is done by for
example Apache Felix as well and never has been an issue (and didn't
become unmanageably either -  also ymmv).

I agree about the KEYS file. We should have uploaded it to the dist
dir as well but at least we have it at some place so it should be easy
to fix.

regards,

Karl

On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 1:07 PM, sebb seb...@gmail.com wrote:
 On 17 November 2011 10:42, Marcel Offermans marcel.offerm...@luminis.nl 
 wrote:
 In my opinion, ACE is ready to begin the process of graduating from the 
 Apache Incubator to a Top Level Project.

 Since joining the incubator in in May 2009 we've added 4 new committers (12 
 in total now) from diverse organizations and did a release in May this year 
 to demonstrate we follow the Apache guidelines. We've shown an ability to 
 self-govern using accepted Apache practices and ACE continues to attract new 
 contributors and users.

 The first step is to vote as a community, demonstrating that ACE is ready 
 and willing to graduate. Once this vote is succesful we create a board 
 resolution proposal or Charter and start a vote on the general incubator 
 list. The full process is described at 
 http://incubator.apache.org/guides/graduation.html#toplevel

 The vote is open for at least 72 hours.

 The last (and only) release was 0.8, as far as I can tell.

 There is no KEYS file in http://www.apache.org/dist/incubator/ace/,
 and there does not appear to be a full source archive of the project
 anywhere.
 The download page does not have a link to any source archives as far
 as I can tell.
 It does link to KEYS in SVN, but almost all other ASF projects have a
 copy of KEYS in the appropriate /dist directory.

 Normally releases are divided into binaries/ and source/ directories,
 with a KEYS file in the top-level, i.e.

 /dist/incubator/ace
 - KEYS
 - binaries/ace zip
 - sources/acezip

 Most of the files in the /dist/incubator/ace directory appear to be
 Maven artifacts; normally these are not stored in /dist but only in
 the Maven repo.
 Indeed most of the files are also in Maven Central. The only non-Maven
 files appear to be

 org.apache.ace.target.devgateway-0.8.0-incubator-distribution.zip
 org.apache.ace.target.devserver-0.8.0-incubator-distribution.zip

 neither of which contains the source.

 I would expect the above zips to be in

 /dist/incubator/ace/binaries

 with corresponding source files in

 /dist/incubator/ace/source

 The SVN layout [1] is also a bit unusual.
 There is no tags/ directory for release tags, although there is a
 releases/ directory containing individual entries for each release for
 each component.
 This is likely to become unmanageable very quickly, if every release
 adds another 63 directory entries under releases/

 [1] https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator/ace/

 -
 To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org
 For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org





-- 
Karl Pauls
karlpa...@gmail.com
http://twitter.com/karlpauls
http://www.linkedin.com/in/karlpauls
https://profiles.google.com/karlpauls

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Re: [VOTE] Graduate ACE from the Apache Incubator

2011-11-17 Thread Guillaume Nodet

As much as I don't like this layout, this is not the first projet to use
it, and I don't really see how / why the IPMC should decide the svn layout
for the project.   You won't be the one to manage it daily afaik, so that's
not up to you to decide imho.
Sling and Felix already use such a layout and they are both TLP, so I
really don't see that as a problem.

On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 13:07, sebb seb...@gmail.com wrote:

 On 17 November 2011 10:42, Marcel Offermans marcel.offerm...@luminis.nl
 wrote:
  In my opinion, ACE is ready to begin the process of graduating from the
 Apache Incubator to a Top Level Project.
 
  Since joining the incubator in in May 2009 we've added 4 new committers
 (12 in total now) from diverse organizations and did a release in May this
 year to demonstrate we follow the Apache guidelines. We've shown an ability
 to self-govern using accepted Apache practices and ACE continues to attract
 new contributors and users.
 
  The first step is to vote as a community, demonstrating that ACE is
 ready and willing to graduate. Once this vote is succesful we create a
 board resolution proposal or Charter and start a vote on the general
 incubator list. The full process is described at
 http://incubator.apache.org/guides/graduation.html#toplevel
 
  The vote is open for at least 72 hours.

 The last (and only) release was 0.8, as far as I can tell.

 There is no KEYS file in http://www.apache.org/dist/incubator/ace/,
 and there does not appear to be a full source archive of the project
 anywhere.
 The download page does not have a link to any source archives as far
 as I can tell.
 It does link to KEYS in SVN, but almost all other ASF projects have a
 copy of KEYS in the appropriate /dist directory.

 Normally releases are divided into binaries/ and source/ directories,
 with a KEYS file in the top-level, i.e.

 /dist/incubator/ace
 - KEYS
 - binaries/ace zip
 - sources/acezip

 Most of the files in the /dist/incubator/ace directory appear to be
 Maven artifacts; normally these are not stored in /dist but only in
 the Maven repo.
 Indeed most of the files are also in Maven Central. The only non-Maven
 files appear to be

 org.apache.ace.target.devgateway-0.8.0-incubator-distribution.zip
 org.apache.ace.target.devserver-0.8.0-incubator-distribution.zip

 neither of which contains the source.

 I would expect the above zips to be in

 /dist/incubator/ace/binaries

 with corresponding source files in

 /dist/incubator/ace/source

 The SVN layout [1] is also a bit unusual.
 There is no tags/ directory for release tags, although there is a
 releases/ directory containing individual entries for each release for
 each component.
 This is likely to become unmanageable very quickly, if every release
 adds another 63 directory entries under releases/

 [1] https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator/ace/

 -
 To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org
 For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org




-- 

Guillaume Nodet

Blog: http://gnodet.blogspot.com/

Open Source SOA
http://fusesource.com

Re: [VOTE] Graduate ACE from the Apache Incubator

On 17 November 2011 12:29, Karl Pauls karlpa...@gmail.com wrote:
 I'm not sure what this has to do with the graduation vote. The release
 as such has been accepted by the incubator pmc and there only need to
 be one release. The source for each artifact is there, it is just per
 artifact in the -source.jar.

AFAICT the full source (as in SVN trunk) is not actually present in
the distribution directory.

For example, where are the top-level files in SVN (BUILDING, README) ?
And the etc/ directory?

If I wanted to build any or all of the components, there does not
appear to be a way to do this from the files in the distribution.

 There might be different set-up then a lot of other projects have it
 but we release our stuff on a per artifact basis how it is done by for
 example Apache Felix as well and never has been an issue (and didn't
 become unmanageably either -  also ymmv).

The ASF primarily releases source; releases must include full source.

 I agree about the KEYS file. We should have uploaded it to the dist
 dir as well but at least we have it at some place so it should be easy
 to fix.

 regards,

 Karl

 On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 1:07 PM, sebb seb...@gmail.com wrote:
 On 17 November 2011 10:42, Marcel Offermans marcel.offerm...@luminis.nl 
 wrote:
 In my opinion, ACE is ready to begin the process of graduating from the 
 Apache Incubator to a Top Level Project.

 Since joining the incubator in in May 2009 we've added 4 new committers (12 
 in total now) from diverse organizations and did a release in May this year 
 to demonstrate we follow the Apache guidelines. We've shown an ability to 
 self-govern using accepted Apache practices and ACE continues to attract 
 new contributors and users.

 The first step is to vote as a community, demonstrating that ACE is ready 
 and willing to graduate. Once this vote is succesful we create a board 
 resolution proposal or Charter and start a vote on the general incubator 
 list. The full process is described at 
 http://incubator.apache.org/guides/graduation.html#toplevel

 The vote is open for at least 72 hours.

 The last (and only) release was 0.8, as far as I can tell.

 There is no KEYS file in http://www.apache.org/dist/incubator/ace/,
 and there does not appear to be a full source archive of the project
 anywhere.
 The download page does not have a link to any source archives as far
 as I can tell.
 It does link to KEYS in SVN, but almost all other ASF projects have a
 copy of KEYS in the appropriate /dist directory.

 Normally releases are divided into binaries/ and source/ directories,
 with a KEYS file in the top-level, i.e.

 /dist/incubator/ace
 - KEYS
 - binaries/ace zip
 - sources/acezip

 Most of the files in the /dist/incubator/ace directory appear to be
 Maven artifacts; normally these are not stored in /dist but only in
 the Maven repo.
 Indeed most of the files are also in Maven Central. The only non-Maven
 files appear to be

 org.apache.ace.target.devgateway-0.8.0-incubator-distribution.zip
 org.apache.ace.target.devserver-0.8.0-incubator-distribution.zip

 neither of which contains the source.

 I would expect the above zips to be in

 /dist/incubator/ace/binaries

 with corresponding source files in

 /dist/incubator/ace/source

 The SVN layout [1] is also a bit unusual.
 There is no tags/ directory for release tags, although there is a
 releases/ directory containing individual entries for each release for
 each component.
 This is likely to become unmanageable very quickly, if every release
 adds another 63 directory entries under releases/

 [1] https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator/ace/

 -
 To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org
 For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org





 --
 Karl Pauls
 karlpa...@gmail.com
 http://twitter.com/karlpauls
 http://www.linkedin.com/in/karlpauls
 https://profiles.google.com/karlpauls

 -
 To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org
 For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org



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Re: [VOTE] Graduate ACE from the Apache Incubator

On 17 November 2011 12:51, Guillaume Nodet gno...@gmail.com wrote:
 As much as I don't like this layout, this is not the first projet to use
 it, and I don't really see how / why the IPMC should decide the svn layout
 for the project.   You won't be the one to manage it daily afaik, so that's
 not up to you to decide imho.

The SVN layout is less of a concern, although the lack of a single tag
for a release is odd.
Not all of the files in SVN trunk appear in releases/

 Sling and Felix already use such a layout and they are both TLP, so I
 really don't see that as a problem.

 On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 13:07, sebb seb...@gmail.com wrote:

 On 17 November 2011 10:42, Marcel Offermans marcel.offerm...@luminis.nl
 wrote:
  In my opinion, ACE is ready to begin the process of graduating from the
 Apache Incubator to a Top Level Project.
 
  Since joining the incubator in in May 2009 we've added 4 new committers
 (12 in total now) from diverse organizations and did a release in May this
 year to demonstrate we follow the Apache guidelines. We've shown an ability
 to self-govern using accepted Apache practices and ACE continues to attract
 new contributors and users.
 
  The first step is to vote as a community, demonstrating that ACE is
 ready and willing to graduate. Once this vote is succesful we create a
 board resolution proposal or Charter and start a vote on the general
 incubator list. The full process is described at
 http://incubator.apache.org/guides/graduation.html#toplevel
 
  The vote is open for at least 72 hours.

 The last (and only) release was 0.8, as far as I can tell.

 There is no KEYS file in http://www.apache.org/dist/incubator/ace/,
 and there does not appear to be a full source archive of the project
 anywhere.
 The download page does not have a link to any source archives as far
 as I can tell.
 It does link to KEYS in SVN, but almost all other ASF projects have a
 copy of KEYS in the appropriate /dist directory.

 Normally releases are divided into binaries/ and source/ directories,
 with a KEYS file in the top-level, i.e.

 /dist/incubator/ace
 - KEYS
 - binaries/ace zip
 - sources/acezip

 Most of the files in the /dist/incubator/ace directory appear to be
 Maven artifacts; normally these are not stored in /dist but only in
 the Maven repo.
 Indeed most of the files are also in Maven Central. The only non-Maven
 files appear to be

 org.apache.ace.target.devgateway-0.8.0-incubator-distribution.zip
 org.apache.ace.target.devserver-0.8.0-incubator-distribution.zip

 neither of which contains the source.

 I would expect the above zips to be in

 /dist/incubator/ace/binaries

 with corresponding source files in

 /dist/incubator/ace/source

 The SVN layout [1] is also a bit unusual.
 There is no tags/ directory for release tags, although there is a
 releases/ directory containing individual entries for each release for
 each component.
 This is likely to become unmanageable very quickly, if every release
 adds another 63 directory entries under releases/

 [1] https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator/ace/

 -
 To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org
 For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org




 --
 
 Guillaume Nodet
 
 Blog: http://gnodet.blogspot.com/
 
 Open Source SOA
 http://fusesource.com


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Re: [VOTE] Graduate ACE from the Apache Incubator

Again, we had this discussion before namely, when the actual release
vote happened. I'm still confused why we have to go through this
again. You should be able to build all of the components by using the
-source.jar's that are provided. They contain what is necessary i.e.,
the full source.

regards,

Karl

On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 2:30 PM, sebb seb...@gmail.com wrote:
 On 17 November 2011 12:29, Karl Pauls karlpa...@gmail.com wrote:
 I'm not sure what this has to do with the graduation vote. The release
 as such has been accepted by the incubator pmc and there only need to
 be one release. The source for each artifact is there, it is just per
 artifact in the -source.jar.

 AFAICT the full source (as in SVN trunk) is not actually present in
 the distribution directory.

 For example, where are the top-level files in SVN (BUILDING, README) ?
 And the etc/ directory?

 If I wanted to build any or all of the components, there does not
 appear to be a way to do this from the files in the distribution.

 There might be different set-up then a lot of other projects have it
 but we release our stuff on a per artifact basis how it is done by for
 example Apache Felix as well and never has been an issue (and didn't
 become unmanageably either -  also ymmv).

 The ASF primarily releases source; releases must include full source.

 I agree about the KEYS file. We should have uploaded it to the dist
 dir as well but at least we have it at some place so it should be easy
 to fix.

 regards,

 Karl

 On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 1:07 PM, sebb seb...@gmail.com wrote:
 On 17 November 2011 10:42, Marcel Offermans marcel.offerm...@luminis.nl 
 wrote:
 In my opinion, ACE is ready to begin the process of graduating from the 
 Apache Incubator to a Top Level Project.

 Since joining the incubator in in May 2009 we've added 4 new committers 
 (12 in total now) from diverse organizations and did a release in May this 
 year to demonstrate we follow the Apache guidelines. We've shown an 
 ability to self-govern using accepted Apache practices and ACE continues 
 to attract new contributors and users.

 The first step is to vote as a community, demonstrating that ACE is ready 
 and willing to graduate. Once this vote is succesful we create a board 
 resolution proposal or Charter and start a vote on the general incubator 
 list. The full process is described at 
 http://incubator.apache.org/guides/graduation.html#toplevel

 The vote is open for at least 72 hours.

 The last (and only) release was 0.8, as far as I can tell.

 There is no KEYS file in http://www.apache.org/dist/incubator/ace/,
 and there does not appear to be a full source archive of the project
 anywhere.
 The download page does not have a link to any source archives as far
 as I can tell.
 It does link to KEYS in SVN, but almost all other ASF projects have a
 copy of KEYS in the appropriate /dist directory.

 Normally releases are divided into binaries/ and source/ directories,
 with a KEYS file in the top-level, i.e.

 /dist/incubator/ace
 - KEYS
 - binaries/ace zip
 - sources/acezip

 Most of the files in the /dist/incubator/ace directory appear to be
 Maven artifacts; normally these are not stored in /dist but only in
 the Maven repo.
 Indeed most of the files are also in Maven Central. The only non-Maven
 files appear to be

 org.apache.ace.target.devgateway-0.8.0-incubator-distribution.zip
 org.apache.ace.target.devserver-0.8.0-incubator-distribution.zip

 neither of which contains the source.

 I would expect the above zips to be in

 /dist/incubator/ace/binaries

 with corresponding source files in

 /dist/incubator/ace/source

 The SVN layout [1] is also a bit unusual.
 There is no tags/ directory for release tags, although there is a
 releases/ directory containing individual entries for each release for
 each component.
 This is likely to become unmanageable very quickly, if every release
 adds another 63 directory entries under releases/

 [1] https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator/ace/

 -
 To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org
 For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org





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 Karl Pauls
 karlpa...@gmail.com
 http://twitter.com/karlpauls
 http://www.linkedin.com/in/karlpauls
 https://profiles.google.com/karlpauls

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http://twitter.com/karlpauls
http://www.linkedin.com/in/karlpauls
https://profiles.google.com/karlpauls

Re: [VOTE] Graduate ACE from the Apache Incubator

2011-11-17 Thread Benson Margulies

+1 (binding)

On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 8:35 AM, Karl Pauls karlpa...@gmail.com wrote:
 Again, we had this discussion before namely, when the actual release
 vote happened. I'm still confused why we have to go through this
 again. You should be able to build all of the components by using the
 -source.jar's that are provided. They contain what is necessary i.e.,
 the full source.

 regards,

 Karl

 On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 2:30 PM, sebb seb...@gmail.com wrote:
 On 17 November 2011 12:29, Karl Pauls karlpa...@gmail.com wrote:
 I'm not sure what this has to do with the graduation vote. The release
 as such has been accepted by the incubator pmc and there only need to
 be one release. The source for each artifact is there, it is just per
 artifact in the -source.jar.

 AFAICT the full source (as in SVN trunk) is not actually present in
 the distribution directory.

 For example, where are the top-level files in SVN (BUILDING, README) ?
 And the etc/ directory?

 If I wanted to build any or all of the components, there does not
 appear to be a way to do this from the files in the distribution.

 There might be different set-up then a lot of other projects have it
 but we release our stuff on a per artifact basis how it is done by for
 example Apache Felix as well and never has been an issue (and didn't
 become unmanageably either -  also ymmv).

 The ASF primarily releases source; releases must include full source.

 I agree about the KEYS file. We should have uploaded it to the dist
 dir as well but at least we have it at some place so it should be easy
 to fix.

 regards,

 Karl

 On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 1:07 PM, sebb seb...@gmail.com wrote:
 On 17 November 2011 10:42, Marcel Offermans marcel.offerm...@luminis.nl 
 wrote:
 In my opinion, ACE is ready to begin the process of graduating from the 
 Apache Incubator to a Top Level Project.

 Since joining the incubator in in May 2009 we've added 4 new committers 
 (12 in total now) from diverse organizations and did a release in May 
 this year to demonstrate we follow the Apache guidelines. We've shown an 
 ability to self-govern using accepted Apache practices and ACE continues 
 to attract new contributors and users.

 The first step is to vote as a community, demonstrating that ACE is ready 
 and willing to graduate. Once this vote is succesful we create a board 
 resolution proposal or Charter and start a vote on the general incubator 
 list. The full process is described at 
 http://incubator.apache.org/guides/graduation.html#toplevel

 The vote is open for at least 72 hours.

 The last (and only) release was 0.8, as far as I can tell.

 There is no KEYS file in http://www.apache.org/dist/incubator/ace/,
 and there does not appear to be a full source archive of the project
 anywhere.
 The download page does not have a link to any source archives as far
 as I can tell.
 It does link to KEYS in SVN, but almost all other ASF projects have a
 copy of KEYS in the appropriate /dist directory.

 Normally releases are divided into binaries/ and source/ directories,
 with a KEYS file in the top-level, i.e.

 /dist/incubator/ace
 - KEYS
 - binaries/ace zip
 - sources/acezip

 Most of the files in the /dist/incubator/ace directory appear to be
 Maven artifacts; normally these are not stored in /dist but only in
 the Maven repo.
 Indeed most of the files are also in Maven Central. The only non-Maven
 files appear to be

 org.apache.ace.target.devgateway-0.8.0-incubator-distribution.zip
 org.apache.ace.target.devserver-0.8.0-incubator-distribution.zip

 neither of which contains the source.

 I would expect the above zips to be in

 /dist/incubator/ace/binaries

 with corresponding source files in

 /dist/incubator/ace/source

 The SVN layout [1] is also a bit unusual.
 There is no tags/ directory for release tags, although there is a
 releases/ directory containing individual entries for each release for
 each component.
 This is likely to become unmanageable very quickly, if every release
 adds another 63 directory entries under releases/

 [1] https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator/ace/

 -
 To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org
 For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org





 --
 Karl Pauls
 karlpa...@gmail.com
 http://twitter.com/karlpauls
 http://www.linkedin.com/in/karlpauls
 https://profiles.google.com/karlpauls

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 --
 Karl Pauls
 karlpa...@gmail.com
 http://twitter.com/karlpauls
 http://www.linkedin.com/in/karlpauls

Re: [VOTE] Graduate ACE from the Apache Incubator

On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 2:34 PM, sebb seb...@gmail.com wrote:
 On 17 November 2011 12:51, Guillaume Nodet gno...@gmail.com wrote:
 As much as I don't like this layout, this is not the first projet to use
 it, and I don't really see how / why the IPMC should decide the svn layout
 for the project.   You won't be the one to manage it daily afaik, so that's
 not up to you to decide imho.

 The SVN layout is less of a concern, although the lack of a single tag
 for a release is odd.
 Not all of the files in SVN trunk appear in releases/


Why would they have to? We don't release the complete svn trunk but
only the part of it that we want to release. Again, we have a modular
layout and we only release the modules we want to at a given time
_without_ releasing the complete trunk every time. Yes, that is more
work but we from the osgi/modular world prefer it over the problems we
get with big-bang releases.

That said, each binary artifact contains the necessary legal files and
-source.jar's are provided that contain the full source and necessary
legal files. I admit that it might take some getting used to if you
don't know maven well or are not used to modular osgi bundle releases
but please, look at the artifacts that have been released - not at the
svn trunk. We don't release the trunk, we release releases. They must
have legal files and full source and they do.

regards,

Karl

 Sling and Felix already use such a layout and they are both TLP, so I
 really don't see that as a problem.

 On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 13:07, sebb seb...@gmail.com wrote:

 On 17 November 2011 10:42, Marcel Offermans marcel.offerm...@luminis.nl
 wrote:
  In my opinion, ACE is ready to begin the process of graduating from the
 Apache Incubator to a Top Level Project.
 
  Since joining the incubator in in May 2009 we've added 4 new committers
 (12 in total now) from diverse organizations and did a release in May this
 year to demonstrate we follow the Apache guidelines. We've shown an ability
 to self-govern using accepted Apache practices and ACE continues to attract
 new contributors and users.
 
  The first step is to vote as a community, demonstrating that ACE is
 ready and willing to graduate. Once this vote is succesful we create a
 board resolution proposal or Charter and start a vote on the general
 incubator list. The full process is described at
 http://incubator.apache.org/guides/graduation.html#toplevel
 
  The vote is open for at least 72 hours.

 The last (and only) release was 0.8, as far as I can tell.

 There is no KEYS file in http://www.apache.org/dist/incubator/ace/,
 and there does not appear to be a full source archive of the project
 anywhere.
 The download page does not have a link to any source archives as far
 as I can tell.
 It does link to KEYS in SVN, but almost all other ASF projects have a
 copy of KEYS in the appropriate /dist directory.

 Normally releases are divided into binaries/ and source/ directories,
 with a KEYS file in the top-level, i.e.

 /dist/incubator/ace
 - KEYS
 - binaries/ace zip
 - sources/acezip

 Most of the files in the /dist/incubator/ace directory appear to be
 Maven artifacts; normally these are not stored in /dist but only in
 the Maven repo.
 Indeed most of the files are also in Maven Central. The only non-Maven
 files appear to be

 org.apache.ace.target.devgateway-0.8.0-incubator-distribution.zip
 org.apache.ace.target.devserver-0.8.0-incubator-distribution.zip

 neither of which contains the source.

 I would expect the above zips to be in

 /dist/incubator/ace/binaries

 with corresponding source files in

 /dist/incubator/ace/source

 The SVN layout [1] is also a bit unusual.
 There is no tags/ directory for release tags, although there is a
 releases/ directory containing individual entries for each release for
 each component.
 This is likely to become unmanageable very quickly, if every release
 adds another 63 directory entries under releases/

 [1] https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator/ace/

 -
 To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org
 For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org




 --
 
 Guillaume Nodet
 
 Blog: http://gnodet.blogspot.com/
 
 Open Source SOA
 http://fusesource.com


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 To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org
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-- 
Karl Pauls
karlpa...@gmail.com
http://twitter.com/karlpauls
http://www.linkedin.com/in/karlpauls
https://profiles.google.com/karlpauls

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Re: [VOTE] Graduate ACE from the Apache Incubator

2011-11-17 Thread ant elder

To try that I just went to the ACE downloads page which has a bunch of
jars and source jars to download, i downloaded the source of the first
one, org.apache.ace.client.automation-0.8.0-incubator-sources.jar, and
looking inside there is the source to some Java classes but no build
scripts or pom.xml file, so how would I go about building this?

   ...ant

On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 1:35 PM, Karl Pauls karlpa...@gmail.com wrote:
 Again, we had this discussion before namely, when the actual release
 vote happened. I'm still confused why we have to go through this
 again. You should be able to build all of the components by using the
 -source.jar's that are provided. They contain what is necessary i.e.,
 the full source.

 regards,

 Karl

 On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 2:30 PM, sebb seb...@gmail.com wrote:
 On 17 November 2011 12:29, Karl Pauls karlpa...@gmail.com wrote:
 I'm not sure what this has to do with the graduation vote. The release
 as such has been accepted by the incubator pmc and there only need to
 be one release. The source for each artifact is there, it is just per
 artifact in the -source.jar.

 AFAICT the full source (as in SVN trunk) is not actually present in
 the distribution directory.

 For example, where are the top-level files in SVN (BUILDING, README) ?
 And the etc/ directory?

 If I wanted to build any or all of the components, there does not
 appear to be a way to do this from the files in the distribution.

 There might be different set-up then a lot of other projects have it
 but we release our stuff on a per artifact basis how it is done by for
 example Apache Felix as well and never has been an issue (and didn't
 become unmanageably either -  also ymmv).

 The ASF primarily releases source; releases must include full source.

 I agree about the KEYS file. We should have uploaded it to the dist
 dir as well but at least we have it at some place so it should be easy
 to fix.

 regards,

 Karl

 On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 1:07 PM, sebb seb...@gmail.com wrote:
 On 17 November 2011 10:42, Marcel Offermans marcel.offerm...@luminis.nl 
 wrote:
 In my opinion, ACE is ready to begin the process of graduating from the 
 Apache Incubator to a Top Level Project.

 Since joining the incubator in in May 2009 we've added 4 new committers 
 (12 in total now) from diverse organizations and did a release in May 
 this year to demonstrate we follow the Apache guidelines. We've shown an 
 ability to self-govern using accepted Apache practices and ACE continues 
 to attract new contributors and users.

 The first step is to vote as a community, demonstrating that ACE is ready 
 and willing to graduate. Once this vote is succesful we create a board 
 resolution proposal or Charter and start a vote on the general incubator 
 list. The full process is described at 
 http://incubator.apache.org/guides/graduation.html#toplevel

 The vote is open for at least 72 hours.

 The last (and only) release was 0.8, as far as I can tell.

 There is no KEYS file in http://www.apache.org/dist/incubator/ace/,
 and there does not appear to be a full source archive of the project
 anywhere.
 The download page does not have a link to any source archives as far
 as I can tell.
 It does link to KEYS in SVN, but almost all other ASF projects have a
 copy of KEYS in the appropriate /dist directory.

 Normally releases are divided into binaries/ and source/ directories,
 with a KEYS file in the top-level, i.e.

 /dist/incubator/ace
 - KEYS
 - binaries/ace zip
 - sources/acezip

 Most of the files in the /dist/incubator/ace directory appear to be
 Maven artifacts; normally these are not stored in /dist but only in
 the Maven repo.
 Indeed most of the files are also in Maven Central. The only non-Maven
 files appear to be

 org.apache.ace.target.devgateway-0.8.0-incubator-distribution.zip
 org.apache.ace.target.devserver-0.8.0-incubator-distribution.zip

 neither of which contains the source.

 I would expect the above zips to be in

 /dist/incubator/ace/binaries

 with corresponding source files in

 /dist/incubator/ace/source

 The SVN layout [1] is also a bit unusual.
 There is no tags/ directory for release tags, although there is a
 releases/ directory containing individual entries for each release for
 each component.
 This is likely to become unmanageable very quickly, if every release
 adds another 63 directory entries under releases/

 [1] https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator/ace/

 -
 To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org
 For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org





 --
 Karl Pauls
 karlpa...@gmail.com
 http://twitter.com/karlpauls
 http://www.linkedin.com/in/karlpauls
 https://profiles.google.com/karlpauls

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 To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org
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Re: [VOTE] Graduate ACE from the Apache Incubator

$ mkdir org.apache.ace.client.automation-0.8.0-incubator
$ cd org.apache.ace.client.automation-0.8.0-incubator/
$ wget
http://www.apache.org/dist/incubator/ace/org.apache.ace.client.automation-0.8.0-incubator-source.jar
$ jar -xf org.apache.ace.client.automation-0.8.0-incubator-sources.jar
$ wget
http://www.apache.org/dist/incubator/ace/org.apache.ace.client.automation-0.8.0-incubator.pom
$ mv org.apache.ace.client.automation-0.8.0-incubator.pom pom.xml
$ mvn clean install

regards,

Karl

...ant

regards,

Karl

AFAICT the full source (as in SVN trunk) is not actually present in
the distribution directory.

For example, where are the top-level files in SVN (BUILDING, README) ?
And the etc/ directory?

If I wanted to build any or all of the components, there does not
appear to be a way to do this from the files in the distribution.

The ASF primarily releases source; releases must include full source.

I agree about the KEYS file. We should have uploaded it to the dist
dir as well but at least we have it at some place so it should be easy
to fix.

regards,

Karl

On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 1:07 PM, sebb seb...@gmail.com wrote:
On 17 November 2011 10:42, Marcel Offermans marcel.offerm...@luminis.nl
wrote:
In my opinion, ACE is ready to begin the process of graduating from the
Apache Incubator to a Top Level Project.

Since joining the incubator in in May 2009 we've added 4 new committers
(12 in total now) from diverse organizations and did a release in May
this year to demonstrate we follow the Apache guidelines. We've shown an
ability to self-govern using accepted Apache practices and ACE continues
to attract new contributors and users.

The vote is open for at least 72 hours.

The last (and only) release was 0.8, as far as I can tell.

Normally releases are divided into binaries/ and source/ directories,
with a KEYS file in the top-level, i.e.

/dist/incubator/ace
- KEYS
- binaries/ace zip
- sources/acezip

org.apache.ace.target.devgateway-0.8.0-incubator-distribution.zip
org.apache.ace.target.devserver-0.8.0-incubator-distribution.zip

neither of which contains the source.

I would expect the above zips to be in

/dist/incubator/ace/binaries

with corresponding source files in

/dist/incubator/ace/source

The SVN layout [1] is also a bit unusual.
There is no tags/ directory for release tags, although there is a
releases/ directory containing individual entries for each release for
each component.
This is likely to become unmanageable very quickly, if every release
adds another 63 directory entries under releases/

[1]

svn tags for releases? (was: [VOTE] Graduate ACE from the Apache Incubator)

2011-11-17 Thread Bertrand Delacretaz

On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 3:07 PM, Karl Pauls karlpa...@gmail.com wrote:
 $ mkdir org.apache.ace.client.automation-0.8.0-incubator
 $ cd org.apache.ace.client.automation-0.8.0-incubator/
 $ wget 
 http://www.apache.org/dist/incubator/ace/org.apache.ace.client.automation-0.8.0-incubator-source.jar
 $ jar -xf org.apache.ace.client.automation-0.8.0-incubator-sources.jar
 $ wget 
 http://www.apache.org/dist/incubator/ace/org.apache.ace.client.automation-0.8.0-incubator.pom
 $ mv org.apache.ace.client.automation-0.8.0-incubator.pom pom.xml
 $ mvn clean install

I agree with others that having an svn tag for that release would be
much more convenient, and it's the expected way. IIRC you're only
expected to keep the latest release under /dist, so the above URLs
will change over time, and it's too easy to delete those files by
mistake.

What prevents you from creating svn tags when releasing bundles?

Sling does release bundles individually, and we do have svn tags under
http://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/sling/tags/

-Bertrand

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Re: svn tags for releases? (was: [VOTE] Graduate ACE from the Apache Incubator)

2011-11-17 Thread Bertrand Delacretaz

On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 3:37 PM, Bertrand Delacretaz
bdelacre...@apache.org wrote:
 ...I agree with others that having an svn tag for that release would be
 much more convenient...

oops sorry, wrong list - moving this thread to ace-...@incubator.apache.org

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Re: [VOTE] Graduate ACE from the Apache Incubator

2011-11-17 Thread Guillaume Nodet

On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 14:30, sebb seb...@gmail.com wrote:

 On 17 November 2011 12:29, Karl Pauls karlpa...@gmail.com wrote:
  I'm not sure what this has to do with the graduation vote. The release
  as such has been accepted by the incubator pmc and there only need to
  be one release. The source for each artifact is there, it is just per
  artifact in the -source.jar.

 AFAICT the full source (as in SVN trunk) is not actually present in
 the distribution directory.

 For example, where are the top-level files in SVN (BUILDING, README) ?
 And the etc/ directory?

 If I wanted to build any or all of the components, there does not
 appear to be a way to do this from the files in the distribution.


The svn tree is not supposed to be a source distribution so looking at it
as a buildable thing is not required.


  There might be different set-up then a lot of other projects have it
  but we release our stuff on a per artifact basis how it is done by for
  example Apache Felix as well and never has been an issue (and didn't
  become unmanageably either -  also ymmv).

 The ASF primarily releases source; releases must include full source.


I agree on the first part, but not the *full* source.
 @ace you should look at the felix way which always include a source
distribution for each bundle.



  I agree about the KEYS file. We should have uploaded it to the dist
  dir as well but at least we have it at some place so it should be easy
  to fix.
 
  regards,
 
  Karl
 
  On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 1:07 PM, sebb seb...@gmail.com wrote:
  On 17 November 2011 10:42, Marcel Offermans 
 marcel.offerm...@luminis.nl wrote:
  In my opinion, ACE is ready to begin the process of graduating from
 the Apache Incubator to a Top Level Project.
 
  Since joining the incubator in in May 2009 we've added 4 new
 committers (12 in total now) from diverse organizations and did a release
 in May this year to demonstrate we follow the Apache guidelines. We've
 shown an ability to self-govern using accepted Apache practices and ACE
 continues to attract new contributors and users.
 
  The first step is to vote as a community, demonstrating that ACE is
 ready and willing to graduate. Once this vote is succesful we create a
 board resolution proposal or Charter and start a vote on the general
 incubator list. The full process is described at
 http://incubator.apache.org/guides/graduation.html#toplevel
 
  The vote is open for at least 72 hours.
 
  The last (and only) release was 0.8, as far as I can tell.
 
  There is no KEYS file in http://www.apache.org/dist/incubator/ace/,
  and there does not appear to be a full source archive of the project
  anywhere.
  The download page does not have a link to any source archives as far
  as I can tell.
  It does link to KEYS in SVN, but almost all other ASF projects have a
  copy of KEYS in the appropriate /dist directory.
 
  Normally releases are divided into binaries/ and source/ directories,
  with a KEYS file in the top-level, i.e.
 
  /dist/incubator/ace
  - KEYS
  - binaries/ace zip
  - sources/acezip
 
  Most of the files in the /dist/incubator/ace directory appear to be
  Maven artifacts; normally these are not stored in /dist but only in
  the Maven repo.
  Indeed most of the files are also in Maven Central. The only non-Maven
  files appear to be
 
  org.apache.ace.target.devgateway-0.8.0-incubator-distribution.zip
  org.apache.ace.target.devserver-0.8.0-incubator-distribution.zip
 
  neither of which contains the source.
 
  I would expect the above zips to be in
 
  /dist/incubator/ace/binaries
 
  with corresponding source files in
 
  /dist/incubator/ace/source
 
  The SVN layout [1] is also a bit unusual.
  There is no tags/ directory for release tags, although there is a
  releases/ directory containing individual entries for each release for
  each component.
  This is likely to become unmanageable very quickly, if every release
  adds another 63 directory entries under releases/
 
  [1] https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator/ace/
 
  -
  To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org
  For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
 
 
 
 
 
  --
  Karl Pauls
  karlpa...@gmail.com
  http://twitter.com/karlpauls
  http://www.linkedin.com/in/karlpauls
  https://profiles.google.com/karlpauls
 
  -
  To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org
  For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
 
 

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 To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org
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-- 

Guillaume Nodet

Blog: http://gnodet.blogspot.com/

Open Source SOA

Re: [VOTE] Graduate ACE from the Apache Incubator

On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 3:45 PM, Guillaume Nodet gno...@gmail.com wrote:
 On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 14:30, sebb seb...@gmail.com wrote:

 On 17 November 2011 12:29, Karl Pauls karlpa...@gmail.com wrote:
  I'm not sure what this has to do with the graduation vote. The release
  as such has been accepted by the incubator pmc and there only need to
  be one release. The source for each artifact is there, it is just per
  artifact in the -source.jar.

 AFAICT the full source (as in SVN trunk) is not actually present in
 the distribution directory.

 For example, where are the top-level files in SVN (BUILDING, README) ?
 And the etc/ directory?

 If I wanted to build any or all of the components, there does not
 appear to be a way to do this from the files in the distribution.


 The svn tree is not supposed to be a source distribution so looking at it
 as a buildable thing is not required.


  There might be different set-up then a lot of other projects have it
  but we release our stuff on a per artifact basis how it is done by for
  example Apache Felix as well and never has been an issue (and didn't
  become unmanageably either -  also ymmv).

 The ASF primarily releases source; releases must include full source.


 I agree on the first part, but not the *full* source.
  @ace you should look at the felix way which always include a source
 distribution for each bundle.

Yeah, we could have configured the source-release, i agree. However, i
don't think that is a show-stopper (as much as it could be anyhow, as
the release already happend) as we have the source and what is need to
build. Another way to get this is to go to the tags at:

http://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator/ace/releases/$subproject

regards,

Karl



  I agree about the KEYS file. We should have uploaded it to the dist
  dir as well but at least we have it at some place so it should be easy
  to fix.
 
  regards,
 
  Karl
 
  On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 1:07 PM, sebb seb...@gmail.com wrote:
  On 17 November 2011 10:42, Marcel Offermans 
 marcel.offerm...@luminis.nl wrote:
  In my opinion, ACE is ready to begin the process of graduating from
 the Apache Incubator to a Top Level Project.
 
  Since joining the incubator in in May 2009 we've added 4 new
 committers (12 in total now) from diverse organizations and did a release
 in May this year to demonstrate we follow the Apache guidelines. We've
 shown an ability to self-govern using accepted Apache practices and ACE
 continues to attract new contributors and users.
 
  The first step is to vote as a community, demonstrating that ACE is
 ready and willing to graduate. Once this vote is succesful we create a
 board resolution proposal or Charter and start a vote on the general
 incubator list. The full process is described at
 http://incubator.apache.org/guides/graduation.html#toplevel
 
  The vote is open for at least 72 hours.
 
  The last (and only) release was 0.8, as far as I can tell.
 
  There is no KEYS file in http://www.apache.org/dist/incubator/ace/,
  and there does not appear to be a full source archive of the project
  anywhere.
  The download page does not have a link to any source archives as far
  as I can tell.
  It does link to KEYS in SVN, but almost all other ASF projects have a
  copy of KEYS in the appropriate /dist directory.
 
  Normally releases are divided into binaries/ and source/ directories,
  with a KEYS file in the top-level, i.e.
 
  /dist/incubator/ace
  - KEYS
  - binaries/ace zip
  - sources/acezip
 
  Most of the files in the /dist/incubator/ace directory appear to be
  Maven artifacts; normally these are not stored in /dist but only in
  the Maven repo.
  Indeed most of the files are also in Maven Central. The only non-Maven
  files appear to be
 
  org.apache.ace.target.devgateway-0.8.0-incubator-distribution.zip
  org.apache.ace.target.devserver-0.8.0-incubator-distribution.zip
 
  neither of which contains the source.
 
  I would expect the above zips to be in
 
  /dist/incubator/ace/binaries
 
  with corresponding source files in
 
  /dist/incubator/ace/source
 
  The SVN layout [1] is also a bit unusual.
  There is no tags/ directory for release tags, although there is a
  releases/ directory containing individual entries for each release for
  each component.
  This is likely to become unmanageable very quickly, if every release
  adds another 63 directory entries under releases/
 
  [1] https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator/ace/
 
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  karlpa...@gmail.com
  http://twitter.com/karlpauls
  http://www.linkedin.com/in/karlpauls
  https://profiles.google.com/karlpauls
 
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  For

Re: [VOTE] Graduate ACE from the Apache Incubator

On 17 November 2011 14:07, Karl Pauls karlpa...@gmail.com wrote:
$ mkdir org.apache.ace.client.automation-0.8.0-incubator
$ cd org.apache.ace.client.automation-0.8.0-incubator/
$ wget
http://www.apache.org/dist/incubator/ace/org.apache.ace.client.automation-0.8.0-incubator-source.jar

s/source/sources/

$ jar -xf org.apache.ace.client.automation-0.8.0-incubator-sources.jar
$ wget
http://www.apache.org/dist/incubator/ace/org.apache.ace.client.automation-0.8.0-incubator.pom
$ mv org.apache.ace.client.automation-0.8.0-incubator.pom pom.xml
$ mvn clean install

Not exactly trivial compared with

$ svn co
http://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator/ace/releases/org.apache.ace.client.automation-0.8.0-incubator
-- or --
$ unzip org.apache.ace.client.automation-0.8.0-incubator-source.zip
(if it existed)
and then
$ cd org.apache.ace.client.automation-0.8.0-incubator
$ mvn clean install

There's another (bigger) problem with the existing -sources.jar files.
They don't contain any unit tests, as far as I can tell, yet there are
some unit tests in SVN.

Surely the unit tests should be distributed as part of the source release?

This is quite easy to fix, just (vote on and) release zip/tar.gz
archives of the tags for each component.
I would drop the -sources.jar files from /dist as they aren't all that
useful for non-Maven downloads.

To make it easier to navigate the dist/ directory, may I suggest
creating binaries/ and source/ folders?
The source/ folder would contain all the current source zips/tgz archives
The binaries folders would contain binary jars and javadoc jars
The *.pom files would be removed, as the pom.xml files would be in the
appropriate source/ archive.

regards,

Karl

...ant

regards,

Karl

AFAICT the full source (as in SVN trunk) is not actually present in
the distribution directory.

For example, where are the top-level files in SVN (BUILDING, README) ?
And the etc/ directory?

If I wanted to build any or all of the components, there does not
appear to be a way to do this from the files in the distribution.

The ASF primarily releases source; releases must include full source.

I agree about the KEYS file. We should have uploaded it to the dist
dir as well but at least we have it at some place so it should be easy
to fix.

regards,

Karl

Since joining the incubator in in May 2009 we've added 4 new committers
(12 in total now) from diverse organizations and did a release in May
this year to demonstrate we follow the Apache guidelines. We've shown
an ability to self-govern using accepted Apache practices and ACE
continues to attract new contributors and users.

The vote is open for at least 72 hours.

The last (and only) release was 0.8, as far as I can tell.

There is no KEYS file in http://www.apache.org/dist/incubator/ace/,
and there does not appear to be a full source archive of the project
anywhere.
The download page does not have a link to

Re: [VOTE] Graduate ACE from the Apache Incubator

Again, I'm not against doing things differently for future release
(and the reason this release looks like it does is because that is
configured like this in the apache-parent iirc). However, I'm still
confused what all of this has to do with the graduation proposal vote
and why this has to be on general@.

The release vote has passed a while ago and I don't see that the
release is invalid because we don't use a certain svn layout or maven
config. The source is in dist and the tags are in svn. I suggest we
move discussion about future release layouts to the ace-dev list and
into a separate thread unless you disagree.

regards,

Karl

On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 4:09 PM, sebb seb...@gmail.com wrote:
On 17 November 2011 14:07, Karl Pauls karlpa...@gmail.com wrote:
$ mkdir org.apache.ace.client.automation-0.8.0-incubator
$ cd org.apache.ace.client.automation-0.8.0-incubator/
$ wget
http://www.apache.org/dist/incubator/ace/org.apache.ace.client.automation-0.8.0-incubator-source.jar

s/source/sources/

Not exactly trivial compared with

There's another (bigger) problem with the existing -sources.jar files.
They don't contain any unit tests, as far as I can tell, yet there are
some unit tests in SVN.

Surely the unit tests should be distributed as part of the source release?

regards,

Karl

...ant

regards,

Karl

AFAICT the full source (as in SVN trunk) is not actually present in
the distribution directory.

For example, where are the top-level files in SVN (BUILDING, README) ?
And the etc/ directory?

If I wanted to build any or all of the components, there does not
appear to be a way to do this from the files in the distribution.

The ASF primarily releases source; releases must include full source.

I agree about the KEYS file. We should have uploaded it to the dist
dir as well but at least we have it at some place so it should be easy
to fix.

regards,

Karl

Re: [VOTE] Graduate ACE from the Apache Incubator

2011-11-17 Thread Jean-Baptiste Onofré

Hi Karl,

we can simply need to revert the changes just before the 0.8.0-incubator
release.
When upgrading the ACE build to use Maven, firstly, we used the tags scm
with Maven sub-modules.
So I'm quite sure that reverting just before the 0.8.0-incubator, I can
prepare that for the next ACE release.

Regards
JB

On 11/17/2011 04:14 PM, Karl Pauls wrote:

regards,

Karl

On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 4:09 PM, sebbseb...@gmail.com wrote:

On 17 November 2011 14:07, Karl Paulskarlpa...@gmail.com wrote:

s/source/sources/

Not exactly trivial compared with

There's another (bigger) problem with the existing -sources.jar files.
They don't contain any unit tests, as far as I can tell, yet there are
some unit tests in SVN.

Surely the unit tests should be distributed as part of the source release?

regards,

Karl

On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 2:54 PM, ant elderant.el...@gmail.com wrote:

To try that I just went to the ACE downloads page which has a bunch of
jars and source jars to download, i downloaded the source of the first
one, org.apache.ace.client.automation-0.8.0-incubator-sources.jar, and
looking inside there is the source to some Java classes but no build
scripts or pom.xml file, so how would I go about building this?

...ant

On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 1:35 PM, Karl Paulskarlpa...@gmail.com wrote:

Again, we had this discussion before namely, when the actual release
vote happened. I'm still confused why we have to go through this
again. You should be able to build all of the components by using the
-source.jar's that are provided. They contain what is necessary i.e.,
the full source.

regards,

Karl

On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 2:30 PM, sebbseb...@gmail.com wrote:

On 17 November 2011 12:29, Karl Paulskarlpa...@gmail.com wrote:

I'm not sure what this has to do with the graduation vote. The release
as such has been accepted by the incubator pmc and there only need to
be one release. The source for each artifact is there, it is just per
artifact in the -source.jar.

AFAICT the full source (as in SVN trunk) is not actually present in
the distribution directory.

For example, where are the top-level files in SVN (BUILDING, README) ?
And the etc/ directory?

If I wanted to build any or all of the components, there does not
appear to be a way to do this from the files in the distribution.

The ASF primarily releases source; releases must include full source.

I agree about the KEYS file. We should have uploaded it to the dist
dir as well but at least we have it at some place so it should be easy
to fix.

regards,

Karl

On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 1:07 PM, sebbseb...@gmail.com wrote:

On 17 November 2011 10:42, Marcel Offermansmarcel.offerm...@luminis.nl wrote:

In my opinion, ACE is ready to begin the

Re: [VOTE] Graduate ACE from the Apache Incubator

JB,

please, lets move this to the ace-dev list.

regards,

Karl

On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 4:21 PM, Jean-Baptiste Onofré j...@nanthrax.net wrote:
Hi Karl,

Regards
JB

On 11/17/2011 04:14 PM, Karl Pauls wrote:

regards,

Karl

On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 4:09 PM, sebbseb...@gmail.com wrote:

On 17 November 2011 14:07, Karl Paulskarlpa...@gmail.com wrote:

s/source/sources/

Not exactly trivial compared with

There's another (bigger) problem with the existing -sources.jar files.
They don't contain any unit tests, as far as I can tell, yet there are
some unit tests in SVN.

Surely the unit tests should be distributed as part of the source
release?

regards,

Karl

On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 2:54 PM, ant elderant.el...@gmail.com wrote:

...ant

On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 1:35 PM, Karl Paulskarlpa...@gmail.com
wrote:

regards,

Karl

On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 2:30 PM, sebbseb...@gmail.com wrote:

On 17 November 2011 12:29, Karl Paulskarlpa...@gmail.com wrote:

I'm not sure what this has to do with the graduation vote. The
release
as such has been accepted by the incubator pmc and there only need
to
be one release. The source for each artifact is there, it is just
per
artifact in the -source.jar.

AFAICT the full source (as in SVN trunk) is not actually present in
the distribution directory.

For example, where are the top-level files in SVN (BUILDING, README)
?
And the etc/ directory?

If I wanted to build any or all of the components, there does not
appear to be a way to do this from the files in the distribution.

There might be different set-up then a lot of other projects have it
but we release our stuff on a per artifact basis how it is done by
for
example Apache Felix as well and never has been an issue (and didn't
become unmanageably either - also ymmv).

The ASF primarily releases source; releases must include full source.

I agree about the KEYS file. We should have uploaded it to the dist
dir as well but at least we have it at some place so it

Re: [VOTE] Graduate ACE from the Apache Incubator

2011-11-17 Thread Jean-Baptiste Onofré

Sorry my mistake.

Regards
JB

On 11/17/2011 04:27 PM, Karl Pauls wrote:

JB,

please, lets move this to the ace-dev list.

regards,

Karl

On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 4:21 PM, Jean-Baptiste Onofréj...@nanthrax.net wrote:

Hi Karl,

Regards
JB

On 11/17/2011 04:14 PM, Karl Pauls wrote:

regards,

Karl

On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 4:09 PM, sebbseb...@gmail.comwrote:

On 17 November 2011 14:07, Karl Paulskarlpa...@gmail.comwrote:

s/source/sources/

Not exactly trivial compared with

There's another (bigger) problem with the existing -sources.jar files.
They don't contain any unit tests, as far as I can tell, yet there are
some unit tests in SVN.

Surely the unit tests should be distributed as part of the source
release?

regards,

Karl

On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 2:54 PM, ant elderant.el...@gmail.comwrote:

...ant

On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 1:35 PM, Karl Paulskarlpa...@gmail.com
wrote:

regards,

Karl

On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 2:30 PM, sebbseb...@gmail.comwrote:

On 17 November 2011 12:29, Karl Paulskarlpa...@gmail.comwrote:

I'm not sure what this has to do with the graduation vote. The
release
as such has been accepted by the incubator pmc and there only need
to
be one release. The source for each artifact is there, it is just
per
artifact in the -source.jar.

AFAICT the full source (as in SVN trunk) is not actually present in
the distribution directory.

For example, where are the top-level files in SVN (BUILDING, README)
?
And the etc/ directory?

If I wanted to build any or all of the components, there does not
appear to be a way to do this from the files in the distribution.

There might be different set-up then a lot of other projects have it
but we release our stuff on a per artifact basis how it is done by
for
example Apache Felix as well and never has been an issue (and didn't
become unmanageably either - also ymmv).

The ASF primarily releases source; releases must include full source.

I agree about the KEYS file. We should have uploaded it to the dist
dir as well but at least we have it at some place so it

Re: [VOTE] Graduate ACE from the Apache Incubator

2011-11-17 Thread Carsten Ziegeler

Big +1

Carsten

2011/11/17 Marcel Offermans marcel.offerm...@luminis.nl:
 In my opinion, ACE is ready to begin the process of graduating from the 
 Apache Incubator to a Top Level Project.

 Since joining the incubator in in May 2009 we've added 4 new committers (12 
 in total now) from diverse organizations and did a release in May this year 
 to demonstrate we follow the Apache guidelines. We've shown an ability to 
 self-govern using accepted Apache practices and ACE continues to attract new 
 contributors and users.

 The first step is to vote as a community, demonstrating that ACE is ready and 
 willing to graduate. Once this vote is succesful we create a board resolution 
 proposal or Charter and start a vote on the general incubator list. The full 
 process is described at 
 http://incubator.apache.org/guides/graduation.html#toplevel

 The vote is open for at least 72 hours.

 Greetings, Marcel





-- 
Carsten Ziegeler
cziege...@apache.org

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Re: [VOTE] Graduate ACE from the Apache Incubator

2011-11-17 Thread Carsten Ziegeler

2011/11/17 Karl Pauls karlpa...@gmail.com:
Again, I'm not against doing things differently for future release
(and the reason this release looks like it does is because that is
configured like this in the apache-parent iirc). However, I'm still
confused what all of this has to do with the graduation proposal vote
and why this has to be on general@.

Exactly and I fail to see what this all has to do with the graduation vote.

Carsten

regards,

Karl

s/source/sources/

Not exactly trivial compared with

There's another (bigger) problem with the existing -sources.jar files.
They don't contain any unit tests, as far as I can tell, yet there are
some unit tests in SVN.

Surely the unit tests should be distributed as part of the source release?

regards,

Karl

...ant

regards,

Karl

AFAICT the full source (as in SVN trunk) is not actually present in
the distribution directory.

For example, where are the top-level files in SVN (BUILDING, README) ?
And the etc/ directory?

If I wanted to build any or all of the components, there does not
appear to be a way to do this from the files in the distribution.

The ASF primarily releases source; releases must include full source.

I agree about the KEYS file. We should have uploaded it to the dist
dir as well but at least we have it at some place so it should be easy
to fix.

regards,

Karl

Since joining the incubator in in May 2009 we've added 4 new
committers (12 in

Re: [VOTE] Graduate ACE from the Apache Incubator

2011-11-17 Thread ant elder

On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 3:14 PM, Karl Pauls karlpa...@gmail.com wrote:
 Again, I'm not against doing things differently for future release
 (and the reason this release looks like it does is because that is
 configured like this in the apache-parent iirc). However, I'm still
 confused what all of this has to do with the graduation proposal vote
 and why this has to be on general@.


I think why its come up here now is because part of judging if a
poddling is ready to graduate is if they understand how to make and
review ASF releases properly. And with whats be said here and how the
source has to be built i'm wondering if anyone who voted +1 for the
release would have actually tried to build any of the source.

   ...ant

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Re: [VOTE] Graduate ACE from the Apache Incubator

On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 4:38 PM, ant elder ant.el...@gmail.com wrote:
 On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 3:14 PM, Karl Pauls karlpa...@gmail.com wrote:
 Again, I'm not against doing things differently for future release
 (and the reason this release looks like it does is because that is
 configured like this in the apache-parent iirc). However, I'm still
 confused what all of this has to do with the graduation proposal vote
 and why this has to be on general@.


 I think why its come up here now is because part of judging if a
 poddling is ready to graduate is if they understand how to make and
 review ASF releases properly. And with whats be said here and how the
 source has to be built i'm wondering if anyone who voted +1 for the
 release would have actually tried to build any of the source.

I guess the point is: are you arguing that the release should not
haven been accepted by the incubator in the first place on the grounds
that you find it hard to build and hence, you want to see a new one
before the we can vote on approaching the incubator for a graduation?

If yes, lets have that debate. If no, lets move this to a new thread
on the ace-dev list.

regards,

Karl

   ...ant

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-- 
Karl Pauls
karlpa...@gmail.com
http://twitter.com/karlpauls
http://www.linkedin.com/in/karlpauls
https://profiles.google.com/karlpauls

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Re: [VOTE] Graduate ACE from the Apache Incubator

2011-11-17 Thread ant elder

On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 3:47 PM, Karl Pauls karlpa...@gmail.com wrote:
 On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 4:38 PM, ant elder ant.el...@gmail.com wrote:
 On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 3:14 PM, Karl Pauls karlpa...@gmail.com wrote:
 Again, I'm not against doing things differently for future release
 (and the reason this release looks like it does is because that is
 configured like this in the apache-parent iirc). However, I'm still
 confused what all of this has to do with the graduation proposal vote
 and why this has to be on general@.


 I think why its come up here now is because part of judging if a
 poddling is ready to graduate is if they understand how to make and
 review ASF releases properly. And with whats be said here and how the
 source has to be built i'm wondering if anyone who voted +1 for the
 release would have actually tried to build any of the source.

 I guess the point is: are you arguing that the release should not
 haven been accepted by the incubator in the first place on the grounds
 that you find it hard to build and hence, you want to see a new one
 before the we can vote on approaching the incubator for a graduation?


I'm not arguing anything yet. Some valid comments and questions were
made in the vote thread, you asked why they were happening here and i
tried to answer that. The Incubator people should have an opportunity
to discuss a graduation, perhaps some of that might be better on a
graduation discussion thread but there wasn't one of those before the
vote.

The release does look a bit dubious to me.

   ...ant

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Re: [VOTE] Graduate ACE from the Apache Incubator