Re: [VOTE] Release Apache Wayang (Incubating) 0.6.0-RC5

[Lars George]

Hi All,

I do not see an issue with the code snippet. The NOTICE.txt part was
already mentioned and will be fixed soon.

+1

- Compiled on Windows (WSL Ubuntu)
- Licenses checked (Ran rat plugin via Maven)
- Checksum checked (SHA512)
- Checked incubation in name

Lars

On Sun, Nov 7, 2021 at 3:43 AM Alexander Alten  wrote:

> Hi,
>
> Ya, you’re right :)
>
> +1 (non-binding)
>
> Compiled on Arm M1
> Compiled on Windows
> Licenses checked (rat)
> Checksum checked
> Incubation in name
> ASF headers
>
>
> > On 7. Nov 2021, at 12:34, Justin Mclean 
> wrote:
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > I’ll also note that Alexander’s vote is non binding, best practice to
> indicate it as such like so “+1 (non-binding)”. It also a good idea to list
> what was checked in the release rather than just voting “+1". Only IPMC
> members votes are binding on ASF incubator releases.
> >
> > Kind Regards,
> > Justin
> > -
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
> >
>
>

AW: [VOTE] Release Apache Wayang (Incubating) 0.6.0-RC5

[Christofer Dutz]

Hi all,

I have had a look at the code in question. And I have to admit that I agree 
with the Wayang folks. 

Yes ... it's about 10 lines of "code" initializing an array-like data structure 
... even if there might be a patten regarding the line lengths. It's not a 
simple substitution of letters, but the resulting graph has a different 
structure.

I wouldn't consider this something really being a violation of any copyrights.

I mean ... the code fragment in question is:

new char[]{'B', 'D'},
new char[]{'C', 'I'},
new char[]{'D', 'F', 'B'},
new char[]{'E', 'H', 'D', 'K'},
new char[]{'F', 'A', 'B'},
new char[]{'G', 'A', 'B'},
new char[]{'H', 'A', 'B'},
new char[]{'I', 'A', 'B'},
new char[]{'J', 'G'},
new char[]{'K', 'H'}

This is neither anything I would consider an algorithm, nor any form of 
notation, that I would see as being problematic.

So I hope I'll be able to find some time today to do my vote on this release 
... I would expect it to be a +1 considering the states the prior RCs have been 
in.

Chris



-Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
Von: Alexander Alten  
Gesendet: Sonntag, 7. November 2021 12:43
An: general@incubator.apache.org
Betreff: Re: [VOTE] Release Apache Wayang (Incubating) 0.6.0-RC5

Hi,

Ya, you’re right :) 

+1 (non-binding)

Compiled on Arm M1
Compiled on Windows
Licenses checked (rat)
Checksum checked
Incubation in name
ASF headers


> On 7. Nov 2021, at 12:34, Justin Mclean  wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> I’ll also note that Alexander’s vote is non binding, best practice to 
> indicate it as such like so “+1 (non-binding)”. It also a good idea to list 
> what was checked in the release rather than just voting “+1". Only IPMC 
> members votes are binding on ASF incubator releases.
> 
> Kind Regards,
> Justin
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org
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Re: [VOTE] Release Apache Wayang (Incubating) 0.6.0-RC5

[Alexander Alten]

Hi,

Ya, you’re right :) 

+1 (non-binding)

Compiled on Arm M1
Compiled on Windows
Licenses checked (rat)
Checksum checked
Incubation in name
ASF headers


> On 7. Nov 2021, at 12:34, Justin Mclean  wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> I’ll also note that Alexander’s vote is non binding, best practice to 
> indicate it as such like so “+1 (non-binding)”. It also a good idea to list 
> what was checked in the release rather than just voting “+1". Only IPMC 
> members votes are binding on ASF incubator releases.
> 
> Kind Regards,
> Justin
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
> 

Re: [VOTE] Release Apache Wayang (Incubating) 0.6.0-RC5

[Justin Mclean]

Hi,

The issue has been described in detail multiple times. If you don’t understand 
please talk to you mentors and they can help.

Kind Regards,
Justin
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Re: [VOTE] Release Apache Wayang (Incubating) 0.6.0-RC5

[Justin Mclean]

Hi,

I’ll also note that Alexander’s vote is non binding, best practice to indicate 
it as such like so “+1 (non-binding)”. It also a good idea to list what was 
checked in the release rather than just voting “+1". Only IPMC members votes 
are binding on ASF incubator releases.

Kind Regards,
Justin
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Re: [VOTE] Release Apache Wayang (Incubating) 0.6.0-RC5

[bertty contreras]

Hi,

I don’t understand what is the current problem because what was “copied”
was the image that was transcripts to OUR representation. Then the element
that can be claimed as “copied” is the information inside of the OUR
representation. When we change the content of the graph the Wikipedia
license stop applying because the graph is totally new and its not related
to the previous one. If you are requesting to change our representation/or
change the way to provide the input to the test, we can do it, but for me
it doesn’t make any sense. Because the content that was “copied” is not
there any more. Also as Daniel mentioned the element claim as copied is an
image that in current code does not exist any reference to it, and
obviously the code looks similar because we are using OUR representation of
the graph.

On Sun 7. Nov 2021 at 11:24, Justin Mclean  wrote:

> Hi,
>
> > Agree with Daniel, the node creation is a common technique in the data
> science community and does not represent code, it is representing a
> procedure to create nodes. Therefore the use of this procedure seems
> compliant.
>
> IMO it is not compliant with ASF policy, no matter how common this
> practice may be in the data science community. ASF policy covers more than
> just code.
>
> Kind Regards,
> Justin
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>

Re: [VOTE] Release Apache Wayang (Incubating) 0.6.0-RC5

[Alexander Alten]

Hi,

Honestly I don’t get it. Same techniques are used in Apache Spark and Apache 
Flink, as example. How’s that working? 
We referenced the Wikipedia article as a documentation how page rank works. Why 
should this violate the ASF policy? The algorithm looks exactly as is it is 
[1], means the only fix would be _not_to use it? 

1 - 
https://towardsdatascience.com/pagerank-algorithm-fully-explained-dc794184b4af

Best,
 —Alex 

> On 7. Nov 2021, at 11:24, Justin Mclean  wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
>> Agree with Daniel, the node creation is a common technique in the data 
>> science community and does not represent code, it is representing a 
>> procedure to create nodes. Therefore the use of this procedure seems 
>> compliant.
> 
> IMO it is not compliant with ASF policy, no matter how common this practice 
> may be in the data science community. ASF policy covers more than just code.
> 
> Kind Regards,
> Justin
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Re: [VOTE] Release Apache Wayang (Incubating) 0.6.0-RC5

[Justin Mclean]

Hi,

> Agree with Daniel, the node creation is a common technique in the data 
> science community and does not represent code, it is representing a procedure 
> to create nodes. Therefore the use of this procedure seems compliant.

IMO it is not compliant with ASF policy, no matter how common this practice may 
be in the data science community. ASF policy covers more than just code.

Kind Regards,
Justin
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Re: [VOTE] Release Apache Wayang (Incubating) 0.6.0-RC5

[Alexander Alten]

+1 

PR for the NOTICE [1] includes the changes Justin suggested, will be fixed in 
the next release. Agree with Daniel, the node creation is a common technique in 
the data science community and does not represent code, it is representing a 
procedure to create nodes. Therefore the use of this procedure seems compliant.

1 - https://github.com/apache/incubator-wayang/pull/37

> On 7. Nov 2021, at 08:58, Daniel Widdis  wrote:
> 
> Generally in agreement, but:
> 
>> given there may be a license issue and it's very easy to fix, why not fix it?
> 
> Any "fix" will look like the old code and thus be "modified".  
> 
> The new graph in this case happens to have the same number of nodes and arcs 
> as the original copyrighted artwork, but arranged in a completely different 
> way.  Your position seems to be this might not "fix" the problem.
> 
> I think we are all in agreement that a randomly generated set of nodes and 
> arcs would be compliant, even if the code still looks similar.
> 
> 
> On 11/6/21, 11:40 PM, "Justin Mclean"  wrote:
> 
>Hi,
> 
>> And sure, the image labeled with B and C is based on the non-labeled image 
>> with smiley faces, so I'll concede that image, and even the exact network it 
>> represents, may fall under CC-BY-SA, and thus it was correct to remove the 
>> old code.
> 
>This main issue I think as the old code wasn’t replaced but modified. 
> Modified stuff in general keeps the same license the original. That may apply 
> here, but I’m not 100% sure, but I don’t think it a serious issue. But given 
> there may be a license issue and it's very easy to fix, why not fix it? Also 
> other IPMC members can still vote +1 and this become a release, but I suggest 
> the project fixes it in a future release. If you had used teh WIP progress 
> disclaimer I would have votes +1 and suggested that.
> 
>> Are you asserting that any directed graph is CC-BY-SA licensed?  If not, 
>> what is the threshold for difference that you would accept?
> 
>I would assume not, but you'd need to get actually legal advice to regards 
> what the threshold would be. As is every user of this software may need to 
> seek that advice in order to use it without that risk. The risk could be 
> minimal or nonexistent, but IANAL it's best IMO to err on the side of caution 
> with stuff like this.
> 
>> Would it be acceptable to generate a completely random graph using [1] and 
>> represent that in the code?
> 
>Sure, but so would one that the project came up with itself that wasn’t 
> based on another one, or one that was under compatible license.
> 
>Kind Regards,
>Justin
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> 
> 
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Re: [VOTE] Release Apache Wayang (Incubating) 0.6.0-RC5

[Daniel Widdis]

Generally in agreement, but:

> given there may be a license issue and it's very easy to fix, why not fix it?

Any "fix" will look like the old code and thus be "modified".  

The new graph in this case happens to have the same number of nodes and arcs as 
the original copyrighted artwork, but arranged in a completely different way.  
Your position seems to be this might not "fix" the problem.

I think we are all in agreement that a randomly generated set of nodes and arcs 
would be compliant, even if the code still looks similar.


On 11/6/21, 11:40 PM, "Justin Mclean"  wrote:

Hi,

> And sure, the image labeled with B and C is based on the non-labeled 
image with smiley faces, so I'll concede that image, and even the exact network 
it represents, may fall under CC-BY-SA, and thus it was correct to remove the 
old code.

This main issue I think as the old code wasn’t replaced but modified. 
Modified stuff in general keeps the same license the original. That may apply 
here, but I’m not 100% sure, but I don’t think it a serious issue. But given 
there may be a license issue and it's very easy to fix, why not fix it? Also 
other IPMC members can still vote +1 and this become a release, but I suggest 
the project fixes it in a future release. If you had used teh WIP progress 
disclaimer I would have votes +1 and suggested that.

> Are you asserting that any directed graph is CC-BY-SA licensed?  If not, 
what is the threshold for difference that you would accept?

I would assume not, but you'd need to get actually legal advice to regards 
what the threshold would be. As is every user of this software may need to seek 
that advice in order to use it without that risk. The risk could be minimal or 
nonexistent, but IANAL it's best IMO to err on the side of caution with stuff 
like this.

> Would it be acceptable to generate a completely random graph using [1] 
and represent that in the code?

Sure, but so would one that the project came up with itself that wasn’t 
based on another one, or one that was under compatible license.

Kind Regards,
Justin
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Re: [VOTE] Release Apache Wayang (Incubating) 0.6.0-RC5

[Justin Mclean]

Hi,

> And sure, the image labeled with B and C is based on the non-labeled image 
> with smiley faces, so I'll concede that image, and even the exact network it 
> represents, may fall under CC-BY-SA, and thus it was correct to remove the 
> old code.

This main issue I think as the old code wasn’t replaced but modified. Modified 
stuff in general keeps the same license the original. That may apply here, but 
I’m not 100% sure, but I don’t think it a serious issue. But given there may be 
a license issue and it's very easy to fix, why not fix it? Also other IPMC 
members can still vote +1 and this become a release, but I suggest the project 
fixes it in a future release. If you had used teh WIP progress disclaimer I 
would have votes +1 and suggested that.

> Are you asserting that any directed graph is CC-BY-SA licensed?  If not, what 
> is the threshold for difference that you would accept?

I would assume not, but you'd need to get actually legal advice to regards what 
the threshold would be. As is every user of this software may need to seek that 
advice in order to use it without that risk. The risk could be minimal or 
nonexistent, but IANAL it's best IMO to err on the side of caution with stuff 
like this.

> Would it be acceptable to generate a completely random graph using [1] and 
> represent that in the code?

Sure, but so would one that the project came up with itself that wasn’t based 
on another one, or one that was under compatible license.

Kind Regards,
Justin
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Re: [VOTE] Release Apache Wayang (Incubating) 0.6.0-RC5

[Daniel Widdis]

> It unclear what has been used from that page, there is text, code and images 
> on it all under different licenses.

It's very clear to me.  The code you linked to is simply a representation of 
what nodes link to what other nodes by a directed arc.  For example, the top 
two sites labeled B and C point to each other.  C doesn't point to anything 
else and isn't pointed to by anything other than B.

The original network clearly directly matched the graphic including the 
labeling of the sites by letter and matching links.  

There is no code on the website which refers to this graphic in any way; in 
fact, the algorithm text elsewhere on the page refers to a simplified 4-node 
network with A, B, C, and D which doesn't match the image at all.

> Assuming it is this just this image, then it is based on this image

The "based on" is the linking of sites represented by arrows.  For example, 
these two lines in the removed code represent the bidirectional link in the 
upper right of the image.

new char[]{'B', 'C'},
new char[]{'C', 'B'},

Of note, C only connects to B, and is connected to by B.  

And sure, the image labeled with B and C is based on the non-labeled image with 
smiley faces, so I'll concede that image, and even the exact network it 
represents, may fall under CC-BY-SA, and thus it was correct to remove the old 
code.

However, the PR changed to a different set of links, creating a different 
graph.  As a quick proof, there is no node like C in the previous version which 
only has a single bidirectional link to another node, so it clearly does not 
represent the same graph.  There may be some similarities, but how much of a 
difference is required?

Are you asserting that any directed graph is CC-BY-SA licensed?  If not, what 
is the threshold for difference that you would accept?

Would it be acceptable to generate a completely random graph using [1] and 
represent that in the code?

[1] - http://bl.ocks.org/erkal/9746513





On 11/6/21, 9:58 PM, "Justin Mclean"  wrote:

Hi,

It unclear what has been used from that page, there is text, code and 
images on it all under different licenses.

In general content on wikipedia is not in the public domain and care needs 
to be taken with is use, also what “public domain” means varies. For how to 
treat public domain works in an ASF project please see [1]. It would need to 
mentioned in the LICENSE at a minimum.

Assuming it is this just this image, then it is based on this image [2] 
which is in not public domain but CC-by-SA which complicates things.

I did suggest that the project uses the WIP disclaimer which is a good idea 
until issue like this have been sorted out.

Kind Regards,
Justin

1. 
https://www.apache.org/legal/resolved.html#handling-public-domain-licensed-works
2. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:PageRank-hi-res.png
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Re: [VOTE] Release Apache Wayang (Incubating) 0.6.0-RC5

[Justin Mclean]

Hi,

It unclear what has been used from that page, there is text, code and images on 
it all under different licenses.

In general content on wikipedia is not in the public domain and care needs to 
be taken with is use, also what “public domain” means varies. For how to treat 
public domain works in an ASF project please see [1]. It would need to 
mentioned in the LICENSE at a minimum.

Assuming it is this just this image, then it is based on this image [2] which 
is in not public domain but CC-by-SA which complicates things.

I did suggest that the project uses the WIP disclaimer which is a good idea 
until issue like this have been sorted out.

Kind Regards,
Justin

1. 
https://www.apache.org/legal/resolved.html#handling-public-domain-licensed-works
2. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:PageRank-hi-res.png
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Re: [VOTE] Release Apache Wayang (Incubating) 0.6.0-RC5

[Daniel Widdis]

> taking creative common license code and making modifications to it 

I visited the indicated page [1] and there is no code there.  The code appears 
to have represented connecting letters to match the image on that page.

The license on the image itself [2] indicates that it is public domain.

I see no issue. 

[1] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PageRank
[2] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PageRank#/media/File:PageRanks-Example.svg


On 11/6/21, 6:28 PM, "Justin Mclean"  wrote:

Hi,

+0 on this. while some issues have been fixed, I'm concerned that taking 
creative common license code and making modifications to it [1] and removing 
the comment to where it was originally from doesn’t actually change the 
original license of that code.

I checked:
- incubating in name
- LICENSE OK
- NOTICE needs some more work (see below)
- All source files have ASF headers
- No unexpected binary files
- Can compile from source

In your NOTICE file please do not use "Copyright 2020 and onwards”, instead 
use ""Copyright 2020-20XX” when XX is the year of publication/ release. 
Copyright does expire and doesn’t last forever.

Also in the NOTICE please include the copyright line from Sebastian Kruse. 
While it is good idea to provide a link, that linked to content could change 
over time or the link no longer be valid.

Please fix the NOTICE issues in your next release.

Thanks,
Justin

1. 
https://github.com/apache/incubator-wayang/commit/aaa47e07d762ddc838e5ba52cc7af7727e1b821a#diff-ec94e28e6d97642f6769f117cd47f8b34eb7f9a388eb2e9d4978775450587acc


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Re: [VOTE] Release Apache Wayang (Incubating) 0.6.0-RC5

[Justin Mclean]

Hi,

+0 on this. while some issues have been fixed, I'm concerned that taking 
creative common license code and making modifications to it [1] and removing 
the comment to where it was originally from doesn’t actually change the 
original license of that code.

I checked:
- incubating in name
- LICENSE OK
- NOTICE needs some more work (see below)
- All source files have ASF headers
- No unexpected binary files
- Can compile from source

In your NOTICE file please do not use "Copyright 2020 and onwards”, instead use 
""Copyright 2020-20XX” when XX is the year of publication/ release. Copyright 
does expire and doesn’t last forever.

Also in the NOTICE please include the copyright line from Sebastian Kruse. 
While it is good idea to provide a link, that linked to content could change 
over time or the link no longer be valid.

Please fix the NOTICE issues in your next release.

Thanks,
Justin

1. 
https://github.com/apache/incubator-wayang/commit/aaa47e07d762ddc838e5ba52cc7af7727e1b821a#diff-ec94e28e6d97642f6769f117cd47f8b34eb7f9a388eb2e9d4978775450587acc


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[VOTE] Release Apache Wayang (Incubating) 0.6.0-RC5

[Bertty Contreras]

Hello Incubator Community,

The Apache Wayang community has voted on and approved a proposal to release
Apache Wayang(Incubating) version v0.6.0-RC5.

We now kindly request the Incubator PMC members review and vote on this
incubator release.

Wayang community vote thread:
*https://www.mail-archive.com/dev@wayang.apache.org/msg00507.html
*

Vote result thread:
*https://www.mail-archive.com/dev@wayang.apache.org/msg00515.html
*

[ ] +1 Release this package as Apache Wayang v0.6.0
[ ] +0
[ ] -1 Do not release this package because ...

To learn more about Apache Wayang (Incubating), please see
https://wayang.apache.org/

Release notes:
https://github.com/apache/incubator-wayang/blob/rel/0.6.0/RELEASE_NOTES

The tag to be voted on is wayang-0.6.0 (commit 9fe19a1):
https://github.com/apache/incubator-wayang/tree/rel/0.6.0

The release files, including signatures, digests, etc. can be found at:
https://dist.apache.org/repos/dist/dev/incubator/wayang/0.6.0/rc5

Signatures used for Wayang RC's can be found in this file:
*https://downloads.apache.org/incubator/wayang/KEYS
*

The staging repository for this release can be found at:
https://repository.apache.org/content/repositories/orgapachewayang-1006/org/apache/wayang

Build instructions:
https://github.com/apache/incubator-wayang/blob/rel/0.6.0/README.md#how-to-use-wayang

Thanks,
Bertty Contreras Rojas