Re: JPMS Projects?

[Bertrand Delacretaz]

Hi,

On Thu, Mar 18, 2021 at 6:22 AM Daniel Widdis  wrote:
> ...Regarding "Apache" = "Quality", I'd be careful.  Apache asserts [1] a 
> maxim of "Community over code"

FWIW, the Maturity Model at [1] emphasizes being honest about the
quality of a project's modules (QU10).

As mentioned there, "various levels of quality and maturity for
various modules are natural and acceptable as long as they are clearly
communicated". It is quite common for projects to have different
levels of modules like core, contrib, experimental etc. and I think
what's important is to expose those expected quality levels.

-Bertrand

[1] https://community.apache.org/apache-way/apache-project-maturity-model.html

-
To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org

Re: JPMS Projects?

[Bertrand Delacretaz]

Hi,

On Thu, Mar 18, 2021 at 6:08 AM leerho  wrote:
> ...I am seriously looking at *redesigning* our JDK8 Library using Java Modules
> leveraging JDK16+/Panama/FMA and completely replacing the need for Unsafe,
> etc.  (Not just adapting our JDK8 code to run on JDK9+ and accessing Java
> internals using JVM args.)..

FWIW, http://felix.apache.org/ which implements an OSGi framework has
had to make some changes to coexist with JPMS, maybe that can help for
your case, though their use case is quite specific as OSGi implements
its own module system.

Useful links:
https://issues.apache.org/jira/issues/?jql=project%20%3D%20FELIX%20AND%20text%20~%20jpms
https://blog.osgi.org/2016/08/osgi-with-java-modules-all-way-down.html
https://blog.osgi.org/2019/09/osgi-connect-revisited.html

-Bertrand

-
To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org

Re: JPMS Projects?

[Ralph Goers]

JPMS is flat out a PITA. I’ve tried to get Log4j to fully support it and am 
continuing to work on that. Our current 2.x releases tolerate it primarily by 
declaring their names in the Manifest but that really isn’t full support.  

If I were starting out on a brand new project JPMS might be a lot easier but 
migrating already existing stuff with lots of dependencies is extremely hard. 
To be honest, this isn’t completely the fault of JPMS. The fact that Oracle 
removed classes in Java 9 and forced you to switch in that release played havoc 
with the Log4j build. Trying to get a single deliverable support both Java 8 
and 9+ created a mess. If Oracle had had at least 1 release where both were 
supported it would have made things a LOT easier.

Ralph

> On Mar 18, 2021, at 7:34 AM, Romain Manni-Bucau  wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> If it helps, JPMS has still a lot of blockers IMHO, as soon as you quit
> unamed module land you break most frameworks out there.
> If your lib is a standalone functional set of utilities it can not be
> bothering but if you use any reflection or meta programming I would
> recommend to stick to unamed module by default until you are required to go
> with jpms.
> Only feature JPMS has, as of today, is being able to build jvm images and
> graalvm kind of killed this features by making it irrelevant (I skip the
> licensing issues it can create ;)).
> 
> My 2 cts,
> Romain Manni-Bucau
> @rmannibucau  |  Blog
>  | Old Blog
>  | Github  |
> LinkedIn  | Book
> 
> 
> 
> Le jeu. 18 mars 2021 à 15:25, Serge Huber  a écrit :
> 
>> I was also going to mention OSGi. It enforces better lifecycle management
>> than JPMS. If you can do it with OSGi you can certainly use it with JPMS
>> 
>> Regards,
>>  Serge...
>> 
>> On Thu, Mar 18, 2021 at 3:19 PM Matt Sicker  wrote:
>> 
>>> Perhaps the various OSGi-related projects here might be similar to what
>>> you’re looking for since those have enforced modularity for a long time.
>>> That module system is more advanced than JPMS, but the concepts are
>> fairly
>>> similar.
>>> 
>>> We’ve also been looking into this for log4j 3.0, but that’s not out yet.
>>> 
>>> On Thu, Mar 18, 2021 at 01:06 Daniel Widdis  wrote:
>>> 
 After considering this email I wrote, I regret sending it and want to
 apologize if I have overstepped any bounds.
 
 I am not a member of the IPMC or associated in any formal way with
>> Apache
 and am certainly not in any position to make any judgments regarding
>> code
 quality or your wise choice to begin your search with such projects.
 
 I'll back out of this conversation now and let others answer or
>> redirect
 you to other resources.
 
 Dan
 
 
 On 3/17/21, 10:21 PM, "Daniel Widdis"  wrote:
 
Thanks for your clarifications.
 
Regarding "Apache" = "Quality", I'd be careful.  Apache asserts
>> [1] a
 maxim of "Community over code".  While certainly a broad community
 inevitably leads to better code, and Apache is a good starting point,
>>> given
 the specificity of your request I might start there but not exclude
>> other
 established projects (not random code) which follow many of the same
 principles.
 
I do hope those on this list are aware of some projects they can
 recommend to you!
 
As for the technical specifications, I'd also recommend you'd
>>> separate
 those out as well.  Some of your concerns seem to deal with native code
 access which seems a separate issue than modular design of code.  I
>> have
 also been looking around for good Panama/FMA examples and haven't seen
 anything non-trivial yet.  But even those can be done with/without the
>>> Java
 Module System (JPMS).
 
Looking forward to any other replies with interest.
 
Dan
 
[1] - https://www.apache.org/theapacheway/
 
On 3/17/21, 10:08 PM, "leerho"  wrote:
 
Daniel,
Thank you for your reply.
 
 
> Can you clarify what you mean by an "Apache Java project"?
 
 
I would prefer to examine a project that has a formal release
 process and
an active community. So a TLP or incubating project would be
 great.  In
this case I was equating "Apache" = "Quality"  :)
 
I'm not so interested in random code on the Internet that just
 happens to
be Apache licensed :)
 
Is there a particular use case you are interested in?
 
 
I am seriously looking at *redesigning* our JDK8 Library using
 Java Modules
leveraging JDK16+/Panama/FMA and completely replacing the need
>>> for

Re: JPMS Projects?

[Matt Sicker]

I did find one small library that shows some of the useful
possibilities of adding proper module info to something for 9+
runtimes (especially when using modules):
https://github.com/cryptography-cafe/curve25519-elisabeth

On Thu, 18 Mar 2021 at 09:36,  wrote:
>
> Agree, and if you want to check some Apache projects related to OSGi you
> can take a look to:
>
> - Apache Karaf : https://karaf.apache.org
>
> - Apache Felix : https://felix.apache.org
>
> regards,
>
> François
> fpa...@apache.org
>
> Le 18/03/2021 à 15:25, Serge Huber a écrit :
> > I was also going to mention OSGi. It enforces better lifecycle management
> > than JPMS. If you can do it with OSGi you can certainly use it with JPMS
> >
> > Regards,
> >   Serge...
> >
> > On Thu, Mar 18, 2021 at 3:19 PM Matt Sicker  wrote:
> >
> >> Perhaps the various OSGi-related projects here might be similar to what
> >> you’re looking for since those have enforced modularity for a long time.
> >> That module system is more advanced than JPMS, but the concepts are fairly
> >> similar.
> >>
> >> We’ve also been looking into this for log4j 3.0, but that’s not out yet.
> >>
> >> On Thu, Mar 18, 2021 at 01:06 Daniel Widdis  wrote:
> >>
> >>> After considering this email I wrote, I regret sending it and want to
> >>> apologize if I have overstepped any bounds.
> >>>
> >>> I am not a member of the IPMC or associated in any formal way with Apache
> >>> and am certainly not in any position to make any judgments regarding code
> >>> quality or your wise choice to begin your search with such projects.
> >>>
> >>> I'll back out of this conversation now and let others answer or redirect
> >>> you to other resources.
> >>>
> >>> Dan
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On 3/17/21, 10:21 PM, "Daniel Widdis"  wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Thanks for your clarifications.
> >>>
> >>> Regarding "Apache" = "Quality", I'd be careful.  Apache asserts [1] a
> >>> maxim of "Community over code".  While certainly a broad community
> >>> inevitably leads to better code, and Apache is a good starting point,
> >> given
> >>> the specificity of your request I might start there but not exclude other
> >>> established projects (not random code) which follow many of the same
> >>> principles.
> >>>
> >>> I do hope those on this list are aware of some projects they can
> >>> recommend to you!
> >>>
> >>> As for the technical specifications, I'd also recommend you'd
> >> separate
> >>> those out as well.  Some of your concerns seem to deal with native code
> >>> access which seems a separate issue than modular design of code.  I have
> >>> also been looking around for good Panama/FMA examples and haven't seen
> >>> anything non-trivial yet.  But even those can be done with/without the
> >> Java
> >>> Module System (JPMS).
> >>>
> >>> Looking forward to any other replies with interest.
> >>>
> >>> Dan
> >>>
> >>> [1] - https://www.apache.org/theapacheway/
> >>>
> >>> On 3/17/21, 10:08 PM, "leerho"  wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Daniel,
> >>> Thank you for your reply.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> > Can you clarify what you mean by an "Apache Java project"?
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> I would prefer to examine a project that has a formal release
> >>> process and
> >>> an active community. So a TLP or incubating project would be
> >>> great.  In
> >>> this case I was equating "Apache" = "Quality"  :)
> >>>
> >>> I'm not so interested in random code on the Internet that just
> >>> happens to
> >>> be Apache licensed :)
> >>>
> >>> Is there a particular use case you are interested in?
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> I am seriously looking at *redesigning* our JDK8 Library using
> >>> Java Modules
> >>> leveraging JDK16+/Panama/FMA and completely replacing the need
> >> for
> >>> Unsafe,
> >>> etc.  (Not just adapting our JDK8 code to run on JDK9+ and
> >>> accessing Java
> >>> internals using JVM args.)
> >>>
> >>> This is a major undertaking so being able to look at projects
> >> that
> >>> have
> >>> already gone through that process would be helpful.
> >>>
> >>> Thank you,
> >>>
> >>> Lee.
> >>>
> >>> On Wed, Mar 17, 2021 at 3:42 PM Daniel B. Widdis <
> >> wid...@gmail.com>
> >>> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> > Can you clarify what you mean by an "Apache Java project"?
> >>> >  - A TLP?
> >>> >  - An incubating project?
> >>> >  - A project anywhere that is released under the Apache
> >> license?
> >>> >
> >>> > There's actually no need to "migrate code" in many cases, just
> >>> add some
> >>> > files. Is there a particular use case you are interested in?
> >>> >
> >>> > On Wed, Mar 17, 2021 at 3:11 PM leerho 
> >> wrote:
> >>> >
> >>> > > Folks,
> >>> > > Is anyone aware of an Apache Java project that has actually
> >>> migrated
> >>> > their
> >>> > > code from Java 8 to the Java Platform 

Re: JPMS Projects?

[Romain Manni-Bucau]

Hi,

If it helps, JPMS has still a lot of blockers IMHO, as soon as you quit
unamed module land you break most frameworks out there.
If your lib is a standalone functional set of utilities it can not be
bothering but if you use any reflection or meta programming I would
recommend to stick to unamed module by default until you are required to go
with jpms.
Only feature JPMS has, as of today, is being able to build jvm images and
graalvm kind of killed this features by making it irrelevant (I skip the
licensing issues it can create ;)).

My 2 cts,
Romain Manni-Bucau
@rmannibucau  |  Blog
 | Old Blog
 | Github  |
LinkedIn  | Book



Le jeu. 18 mars 2021 à 15:25, Serge Huber  a écrit :

> I was also going to mention OSGi. It enforces better lifecycle management
> than JPMS. If you can do it with OSGi you can certainly use it with JPMS
>
> Regards,
>   Serge...
>
> On Thu, Mar 18, 2021 at 3:19 PM Matt Sicker  wrote:
>
> > Perhaps the various OSGi-related projects here might be similar to what
> > you’re looking for since those have enforced modularity for a long time.
> > That module system is more advanced than JPMS, but the concepts are
> fairly
> > similar.
> >
> > We’ve also been looking into this for log4j 3.0, but that’s not out yet.
> >
> > On Thu, Mar 18, 2021 at 01:06 Daniel Widdis  wrote:
> >
> > > After considering this email I wrote, I regret sending it and want to
> > > apologize if I have overstepped any bounds.
> > >
> > > I am not a member of the IPMC or associated in any formal way with
> Apache
> > > and am certainly not in any position to make any judgments regarding
> code
> > > quality or your wise choice to begin your search with such projects.
> > >
> > > I'll back out of this conversation now and let others answer or
> redirect
> > > you to other resources.
> > >
> > > Dan
> > >
> > >
> > > On 3/17/21, 10:21 PM, "Daniel Widdis"  wrote:
> > >
> > > Thanks for your clarifications.
> > >
> > > Regarding "Apache" = "Quality", I'd be careful.  Apache asserts
> [1] a
> > > maxim of "Community over code".  While certainly a broad community
> > > inevitably leads to better code, and Apache is a good starting point,
> > given
> > > the specificity of your request I might start there but not exclude
> other
> > > established projects (not random code) which follow many of the same
> > > principles.
> > >
> > > I do hope those on this list are aware of some projects they can
> > > recommend to you!
> > >
> > > As for the technical specifications, I'd also recommend you'd
> > separate
> > > those out as well.  Some of your concerns seem to deal with native code
> > > access which seems a separate issue than modular design of code.  I
> have
> > > also been looking around for good Panama/FMA examples and haven't seen
> > > anything non-trivial yet.  But even those can be done with/without the
> > Java
> > > Module System (JPMS).
> > >
> > > Looking forward to any other replies with interest.
> > >
> > > Dan
> > >
> > > [1] - https://www.apache.org/theapacheway/
> > >
> > > On 3/17/21, 10:08 PM, "leerho"  wrote:
> > >
> > > Daniel,
> > > Thank you for your reply.
> > >
> > >
> > > > Can you clarify what you mean by an "Apache Java project"?
> > >
> > >
> > > I would prefer to examine a project that has a formal release
> > > process and
> > > an active community. So a TLP or incubating project would be
> > > great.  In
> > > this case I was equating "Apache" = "Quality"  :)
> > >
> > > I'm not so interested in random code on the Internet that just
> > > happens to
> > > be Apache licensed :)
> > >
> > > Is there a particular use case you are interested in?
> > >
> > >
> > > I am seriously looking at *redesigning* our JDK8 Library using
> > > Java Modules
> > > leveraging JDK16+/Panama/FMA and completely replacing the need
> > for
> > > Unsafe,
> > > etc.  (Not just adapting our JDK8 code to run on JDK9+ and
> > > accessing Java
> > > internals using JVM args.)
> > >
> > > This is a major undertaking so being able to look at projects
> > that
> > > have
> > > already gone through that process would be helpful.
> > >
> > > Thank you,
> > >
> > > Lee.
> > >
> > > On Wed, Mar 17, 2021 at 3:42 PM Daniel B. Widdis <
> > wid...@gmail.com>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > Can you clarify what you mean by an "Apache Java project"?
> > > >  - A TLP?
> > > >  - An incubating project?
> > > >  - A project anywhere that is released under the Apache
> > license?
> > > >
> > > > There's actually no need to "migrate code" in many cases,
> just
> > > add 

Re: JPMS Projects?

[fpapon]

Agree, and if you want to check some Apache projects related to OSGi you
can take a look to:

- Apache Karaf : https://karaf.apache.org

- Apache Felix : https://felix.apache.org

regards,

François
fpa...@apache.org

Le 18/03/2021 à 15:25, Serge Huber a écrit :
> I was also going to mention OSGi. It enforces better lifecycle management
> than JPMS. If you can do it with OSGi you can certainly use it with JPMS
>
> Regards,
>   Serge...
>
> On Thu, Mar 18, 2021 at 3:19 PM Matt Sicker  wrote:
>
>> Perhaps the various OSGi-related projects here might be similar to what
>> you’re looking for since those have enforced modularity for a long time.
>> That module system is more advanced than JPMS, but the concepts are fairly
>> similar.
>>
>> We’ve also been looking into this for log4j 3.0, but that’s not out yet.
>>
>> On Thu, Mar 18, 2021 at 01:06 Daniel Widdis  wrote:
>>
>>> After considering this email I wrote, I regret sending it and want to
>>> apologize if I have overstepped any bounds.
>>>
>>> I am not a member of the IPMC or associated in any formal way with Apache
>>> and am certainly not in any position to make any judgments regarding code
>>> quality or your wise choice to begin your search with such projects.
>>>
>>> I'll back out of this conversation now and let others answer or redirect
>>> you to other resources.
>>>
>>> Dan
>>>
>>>
>>> On 3/17/21, 10:21 PM, "Daniel Widdis"  wrote:
>>>
>>> Thanks for your clarifications.
>>>
>>> Regarding "Apache" = "Quality", I'd be careful.  Apache asserts [1] a
>>> maxim of "Community over code".  While certainly a broad community
>>> inevitably leads to better code, and Apache is a good starting point,
>> given
>>> the specificity of your request I might start there but not exclude other
>>> established projects (not random code) which follow many of the same
>>> principles.
>>>
>>> I do hope those on this list are aware of some projects they can
>>> recommend to you!
>>>
>>> As for the technical specifications, I'd also recommend you'd
>> separate
>>> those out as well.  Some of your concerns seem to deal with native code
>>> access which seems a separate issue than modular design of code.  I have
>>> also been looking around for good Panama/FMA examples and haven't seen
>>> anything non-trivial yet.  But even those can be done with/without the
>> Java
>>> Module System (JPMS).
>>>
>>> Looking forward to any other replies with interest.
>>>
>>> Dan
>>>
>>> [1] - https://www.apache.org/theapacheway/
>>>
>>> On 3/17/21, 10:08 PM, "leerho"  wrote:
>>>
>>> Daniel,
>>> Thank you for your reply.
>>>
>>>
>>> > Can you clarify what you mean by an "Apache Java project"?
>>>
>>>
>>> I would prefer to examine a project that has a formal release
>>> process and
>>> an active community. So a TLP or incubating project would be
>>> great.  In
>>> this case I was equating "Apache" = "Quality"  :)
>>>
>>> I'm not so interested in random code on the Internet that just
>>> happens to
>>> be Apache licensed :)
>>>
>>> Is there a particular use case you are interested in?
>>>
>>>
>>> I am seriously looking at *redesigning* our JDK8 Library using
>>> Java Modules
>>> leveraging JDK16+/Panama/FMA and completely replacing the need
>> for
>>> Unsafe,
>>> etc.  (Not just adapting our JDK8 code to run on JDK9+ and
>>> accessing Java
>>> internals using JVM args.)
>>>
>>> This is a major undertaking so being able to look at projects
>> that
>>> have
>>> already gone through that process would be helpful.
>>>
>>> Thank you,
>>>
>>> Lee.
>>>
>>> On Wed, Mar 17, 2021 at 3:42 PM Daniel B. Widdis <
>> wid...@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> > Can you clarify what you mean by an "Apache Java project"?
>>> >  - A TLP?
>>> >  - An incubating project?
>>> >  - A project anywhere that is released under the Apache
>> license?
>>> >
>>> > There's actually no need to "migrate code" in many cases, just
>>> add some
>>> > files. Is there a particular use case you are interested in?
>>> >
>>> > On Wed, Mar 17, 2021 at 3:11 PM leerho 
>> wrote:
>>> >
>>> > > Folks,
>>> > > Is anyone aware of an Apache Java project that has actually
>>> migrated
>>> > their
>>> > > code from Java 8 to the Java Platform Module System (JPMS)?
>>> > >
>>> > > Thanks,
>>> > > Lee.
>>> > >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > --
>>> > Dan Widdis
>>> >
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -
>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org
>>> For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
>>>
>>>

-
To unsubscribe, e-mail: 

Re: JPMS Projects?

[Serge Huber]

I was also going to mention OSGi. It enforces better lifecycle management
than JPMS. If you can do it with OSGi you can certainly use it with JPMS

Regards,
  Serge...

On Thu, Mar 18, 2021 at 3:19 PM Matt Sicker  wrote:

> Perhaps the various OSGi-related projects here might be similar to what
> you’re looking for since those have enforced modularity for a long time.
> That module system is more advanced than JPMS, but the concepts are fairly
> similar.
>
> We’ve also been looking into this for log4j 3.0, but that’s not out yet.
>
> On Thu, Mar 18, 2021 at 01:06 Daniel Widdis  wrote:
>
> > After considering this email I wrote, I regret sending it and want to
> > apologize if I have overstepped any bounds.
> >
> > I am not a member of the IPMC or associated in any formal way with Apache
> > and am certainly not in any position to make any judgments regarding code
> > quality or your wise choice to begin your search with such projects.
> >
> > I'll back out of this conversation now and let others answer or redirect
> > you to other resources.
> >
> > Dan
> >
> >
> > On 3/17/21, 10:21 PM, "Daniel Widdis"  wrote:
> >
> > Thanks for your clarifications.
> >
> > Regarding "Apache" = "Quality", I'd be careful.  Apache asserts [1] a
> > maxim of "Community over code".  While certainly a broad community
> > inevitably leads to better code, and Apache is a good starting point,
> given
> > the specificity of your request I might start there but not exclude other
> > established projects (not random code) which follow many of the same
> > principles.
> >
> > I do hope those on this list are aware of some projects they can
> > recommend to you!
> >
> > As for the technical specifications, I'd also recommend you'd
> separate
> > those out as well.  Some of your concerns seem to deal with native code
> > access which seems a separate issue than modular design of code.  I have
> > also been looking around for good Panama/FMA examples and haven't seen
> > anything non-trivial yet.  But even those can be done with/without the
> Java
> > Module System (JPMS).
> >
> > Looking forward to any other replies with interest.
> >
> > Dan
> >
> > [1] - https://www.apache.org/theapacheway/
> >
> > On 3/17/21, 10:08 PM, "leerho"  wrote:
> >
> > Daniel,
> > Thank you for your reply.
> >
> >
> > > Can you clarify what you mean by an "Apache Java project"?
> >
> >
> > I would prefer to examine a project that has a formal release
> > process and
> > an active community. So a TLP or incubating project would be
> > great.  In
> > this case I was equating "Apache" = "Quality"  :)
> >
> > I'm not so interested in random code on the Internet that just
> > happens to
> > be Apache licensed :)
> >
> > Is there a particular use case you are interested in?
> >
> >
> > I am seriously looking at *redesigning* our JDK8 Library using
> > Java Modules
> > leveraging JDK16+/Panama/FMA and completely replacing the need
> for
> > Unsafe,
> > etc.  (Not just adapting our JDK8 code to run on JDK9+ and
> > accessing Java
> > internals using JVM args.)
> >
> > This is a major undertaking so being able to look at projects
> that
> > have
> > already gone through that process would be helpful.
> >
> > Thank you,
> >
> > Lee.
> >
> > On Wed, Mar 17, 2021 at 3:42 PM Daniel B. Widdis <
> wid...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Can you clarify what you mean by an "Apache Java project"?
> > >  - A TLP?
> > >  - An incubating project?
> > >  - A project anywhere that is released under the Apache
> license?
> > >
> > > There's actually no need to "migrate code" in many cases, just
> > add some
> > > files. Is there a particular use case you are interested in?
> > >
> > > On Wed, Mar 17, 2021 at 3:11 PM leerho 
> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Folks,
> > > > Is anyone aware of an Apache Java project that has actually
> > migrated
> > > their
> > > > code from Java 8 to the Java Platform Module System (JPMS)?
> > > >
> > > > Thanks,
> > > > Lee.
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Dan Widdis
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > -
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
> >
> >
>

Re: JPMS Projects?

[Matt Sicker]

Perhaps the various OSGi-related projects here might be similar to what
you’re looking for since those have enforced modularity for a long time.
That module system is more advanced than JPMS, but the concepts are fairly
similar.

We’ve also been looking into this for log4j 3.0, but that’s not out yet.

On Thu, Mar 18, 2021 at 01:06 Daniel Widdis  wrote:

> After considering this email I wrote, I regret sending it and want to
> apologize if I have overstepped any bounds.
>
> I am not a member of the IPMC or associated in any formal way with Apache
> and am certainly not in any position to make any judgments regarding code
> quality or your wise choice to begin your search with such projects.
>
> I'll back out of this conversation now and let others answer or redirect
> you to other resources.
>
> Dan
>
>
> On 3/17/21, 10:21 PM, "Daniel Widdis"  wrote:
>
> Thanks for your clarifications.
>
> Regarding "Apache" = "Quality", I'd be careful.  Apache asserts [1] a
> maxim of "Community over code".  While certainly a broad community
> inevitably leads to better code, and Apache is a good starting point, given
> the specificity of your request I might start there but not exclude other
> established projects (not random code) which follow many of the same
> principles.
>
> I do hope those on this list are aware of some projects they can
> recommend to you!
>
> As for the technical specifications, I'd also recommend you'd separate
> those out as well.  Some of your concerns seem to deal with native code
> access which seems a separate issue than modular design of code.  I have
> also been looking around for good Panama/FMA examples and haven't seen
> anything non-trivial yet.  But even those can be done with/without the Java
> Module System (JPMS).
>
> Looking forward to any other replies with interest.
>
> Dan
>
> [1] - https://www.apache.org/theapacheway/
>
> On 3/17/21, 10:08 PM, "leerho"  wrote:
>
> Daniel,
> Thank you for your reply.
>
>
> > Can you clarify what you mean by an "Apache Java project"?
>
>
> I would prefer to examine a project that has a formal release
> process and
> an active community. So a TLP or incubating project would be
> great.  In
> this case I was equating "Apache" = "Quality"  :)
>
> I'm not so interested in random code on the Internet that just
> happens to
> be Apache licensed :)
>
> Is there a particular use case you are interested in?
>
>
> I am seriously looking at *redesigning* our JDK8 Library using
> Java Modules
> leveraging JDK16+/Panama/FMA and completely replacing the need for
> Unsafe,
> etc.  (Not just adapting our JDK8 code to run on JDK9+ and
> accessing Java
> internals using JVM args.)
>
> This is a major undertaking so being able to look at projects that
> have
> already gone through that process would be helpful.
>
> Thank you,
>
> Lee.
>
> On Wed, Mar 17, 2021 at 3:42 PM Daniel B. Widdis 
> wrote:
>
> > Can you clarify what you mean by an "Apache Java project"?
> >  - A TLP?
> >  - An incubating project?
> >  - A project anywhere that is released under the Apache license?
> >
> > There's actually no need to "migrate code" in many cases, just
> add some
> > files. Is there a particular use case you are interested in?
> >
> > On Wed, Mar 17, 2021 at 3:11 PM leerho  wrote:
> >
> > > Folks,
> > > Is anyone aware of an Apache Java project that has actually
> migrated
> > their
> > > code from Java 8 to the Java Platform Module System (JPMS)?
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > > Lee.
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Dan Widdis
> >
>
>
>
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
>
>

Re: JPMS Projects?

[Daniel Widdis]

After considering this email I wrote, I regret sending it and want to apologize 
if I have overstepped any bounds.

I am not a member of the IPMC or associated in any formal way with Apache and 
am certainly not in any position to make any judgments regarding code quality 
or your wise choice to begin your search with such projects.

I'll back out of this conversation now and let others answer or redirect you to 
other resources.

Dan


On 3/17/21, 10:21 PM, "Daniel Widdis"  wrote:

Thanks for your clarifications.

Regarding "Apache" = "Quality", I'd be careful.  Apache asserts [1] a maxim 
of "Community over code".  While certainly a broad community inevitably leads 
to better code, and Apache is a good starting point, given the specificity of 
your request I might start there but not exclude other established projects 
(not random code) which follow many of the same principles.

I do hope those on this list are aware of some projects they can recommend 
to you!

As for the technical specifications, I'd also recommend you'd separate 
those out as well.  Some of your concerns seem to deal with native code access 
which seems a separate issue than modular design of code.  I have also been 
looking around for good Panama/FMA examples and haven't seen anything 
non-trivial yet.  But even those can be done with/without the Java Module 
System (JPMS).

Looking forward to any other replies with interest.

Dan

[1] - https://www.apache.org/theapacheway/

On 3/17/21, 10:08 PM, "leerho"  wrote:

Daniel,
Thank you for your reply.


> Can you clarify what you mean by an "Apache Java project"?


I would prefer to examine a project that has a formal release process 
and
an active community. So a TLP or incubating project would be great.  In
this case I was equating "Apache" = "Quality"  :)

I'm not so interested in random code on the Internet that just happens 
to
be Apache licensed :)

Is there a particular use case you are interested in?


I am seriously looking at *redesigning* our JDK8 Library using Java 
Modules
leveraging JDK16+/Panama/FMA and completely replacing the need for 
Unsafe,
etc.  (Not just adapting our JDK8 code to run on JDK9+ and accessing 
Java
internals using JVM args.)

This is a major undertaking so being able to look at projects that have
already gone through that process would be helpful.

Thank you,

Lee.

On Wed, Mar 17, 2021 at 3:42 PM Daniel B. Widdis  
wrote:

> Can you clarify what you mean by an "Apache Java project"?
>  - A TLP?
>  - An incubating project?
>  - A project anywhere that is released under the Apache license?
>
> There's actually no need to "migrate code" in many cases, just add 
some
> files. Is there a particular use case you are interested in?
>
> On Wed, Mar 17, 2021 at 3:11 PM leerho  wrote:
>
> > Folks,
> > Is anyone aware of an Apache Java project that has actually migrated
> their
> > code from Java 8 to the Java Platform Module System (JPMS)?
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Lee.
> >
>
>
> --
> Dan Widdis
>



-
To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org

Re: JPMS Projects?

[Daniel Widdis]

Thanks for your clarifications.

Regarding "Apache" = "Quality", I'd be careful.  Apache asserts [1] a maxim of 
"Community over code".  While certainly a broad community inevitably leads to 
better code, and Apache is a good starting point, given the specificity of your 
request I might start there but not exclude other established projects (not 
random code) which follow many of the same principles.

I do hope those on this list are aware of some projects they can recommend to 
you!

As for the technical specifications, I'd also recommend you'd separate those 
out as well.  Some of your concerns seem to deal with native code access which 
seems a separate issue than modular design of code.  I have also been looking 
around for good Panama/FMA examples and haven't seen anything non-trivial yet.  
But even those can be done with/without the Java Module System (JPMS).

Looking forward to any other replies with interest.

Dan

[1] - https://www.apache.org/theapacheway/

On 3/17/21, 10:08 PM, "leerho"  wrote:

Daniel,
Thank you for your reply.


> Can you clarify what you mean by an "Apache Java project"?


I would prefer to examine a project that has a formal release process and
an active community. So a TLP or incubating project would be great.  In
this case I was equating "Apache" = "Quality"  :)

I'm not so interested in random code on the Internet that just happens to
be Apache licensed :)

Is there a particular use case you are interested in?


I am seriously looking at *redesigning* our JDK8 Library using Java Modules
leveraging JDK16+/Panama/FMA and completely replacing the need for Unsafe,
etc.  (Not just adapting our JDK8 code to run on JDK9+ and accessing Java
internals using JVM args.)

This is a major undertaking so being able to look at projects that have
already gone through that process would be helpful.

Thank you,

Lee.

On Wed, Mar 17, 2021 at 3:42 PM Daniel B. Widdis  wrote:

> Can you clarify what you mean by an "Apache Java project"?
>  - A TLP?
>  - An incubating project?
>  - A project anywhere that is released under the Apache license?
>
> There's actually no need to "migrate code" in many cases, just add some
> files. Is there a particular use case you are interested in?
>
> On Wed, Mar 17, 2021 at 3:11 PM leerho  wrote:
>
> > Folks,
> > Is anyone aware of an Apache Java project that has actually migrated
> their
> > code from Java 8 to the Java Platform Module System (JPMS)?
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Lee.
> >
>
>
> --
> Dan Widdis
>



-
To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org

Re: JPMS Projects?

[leerho]

Daniel,
Thank you for your reply.


> Can you clarify what you mean by an "Apache Java project"?


I would prefer to examine a project that has a formal release process and
an active community. So a TLP or incubating project would be great.  In
this case I was equating "Apache" = "Quality"  :)

I'm not so interested in random code on the Internet that just happens to
be Apache licensed :)

Is there a particular use case you are interested in?


I am seriously looking at *redesigning* our JDK8 Library using Java Modules
leveraging JDK16+/Panama/FMA and completely replacing the need for Unsafe,
etc.  (Not just adapting our JDK8 code to run on JDK9+ and accessing Java
internals using JVM args.)

This is a major undertaking so being able to look at projects that have
already gone through that process would be helpful.

Thank you,

Lee.

On Wed, Mar 17, 2021 at 3:42 PM Daniel B. Widdis  wrote:

> Can you clarify what you mean by an "Apache Java project"?
>  - A TLP?
>  - An incubating project?
>  - A project anywhere that is released under the Apache license?
>
> There's actually no need to "migrate code" in many cases, just add some
> files. Is there a particular use case you are interested in?
>
> On Wed, Mar 17, 2021 at 3:11 PM leerho  wrote:
>
> > Folks,
> > Is anyone aware of an Apache Java project that has actually migrated
> their
> > code from Java 8 to the Java Platform Module System (JPMS)?
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Lee.
> >
>
>
> --
> Dan Widdis
>

Re: JPMS Projects?

[Daniel B. Widdis]

Can you clarify what you mean by an "Apache Java project"?
 - A TLP?
 - An incubating project?
 - A project anywhere that is released under the Apache license?

There's actually no need to "migrate code" in many cases, just add some
files. Is there a particular use case you are interested in?

On Wed, Mar 17, 2021 at 3:11 PM leerho  wrote:

> Folks,
> Is anyone aware of an Apache Java project that has actually migrated their
> code from Java 8 to the Java Platform Module System (JPMS)?
>
> Thanks,
> Lee.
>


-- 
Dan Widdis

JPMS Projects?

[leerho]

Folks,
Is anyone aware of an Apache Java project that has actually migrated their
code from Java 8 to the Java Platform Module System (JPMS)?

Thanks,
Lee.