Re: YAMP to fix the Incubator (*)
On Wed, May 15, 2013 at 2:24 AM, Mattmann, Chris A (398J) wrote: > ...Thanks can you please identify how my proposal isn't granular? It suggests > next steps about > 5 of them and then lists shifts in responsibility around 10 or more of then > with > applicable next steps The "deconstruct the Incubator" title makes me see your proposal as an all-or-nothing thing. I'm more in favor of small, reversible steps. -Bertrand - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: YAMP to fix the Incubator (*)
On Wed, May 15, 2013 at 2:24 AM, Mattmann, Chris A (398J) wrote: > Thanks can you please identify how my proposal isn't granular? It suggests > next steps about 5 of them and then lists shifts in responsibility around 10 > or more of then with applicable next steps. I believe the idea is to make an overview of all problems and suggestion on one page. You have made it similar granular, but you are focusing on your point of view, while Bertrands document wants to highlight all the different opinions (including yours). Cheers Christian > Sent from my iPhone > > On May 14, 2013, at 2:22 PM, "Bertrand Delacretaz" > wrote: > >> On Tuesday, May 14, 2013, Mattmann, Chris A (398J) wrote: >>> hahhahha, done! >> http://wiki.apache.org/incubator/IncubatorIssues2013#Issue_08_-_The_IPMC_is >> _broken >> >> thanks - although I don't share your views about the brokenness of the >> Incubator (hence YAMP to have a more granular view on things), having all >> the suggestions for change in a single place should help build consensus on >> what we actually want to do. >> >> -Bertrand > > - > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org > For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org > -- http://www.grobmeier.de https://www.timeandbill.de - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: YAMP to fix the Incubator (*)
Thanks can you please identify how my proposal isn't granular? It suggests next steps about 5 of them and then lists shifts in responsibility around 10 or more of then with applicable next steps. Sent from my iPhone On May 14, 2013, at 2:22 PM, "Bertrand Delacretaz" wrote: > On Tuesday, May 14, 2013, Mattmann, Chris A (398J) wrote: >> hahhahha, done! > http://wiki.apache.org/incubator/IncubatorIssues2013#Issue_08_-_The_IPMC_is > _broken > > thanks - although I don't share your views about the brokenness of the > Incubator (hence YAMP to have a more granular view on things), having all > the suggestions for change in a single place should help build consensus on > what we actually want to do. > > -Bertrand - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: YAMP to fix the Incubator (*)
On Tuesday, May 14, 2013, Mattmann, Chris A (398J) wrote: > hahhahha, done! > http://wiki.apache.org/incubator/IncubatorIssues2013#Issue_08_-_The_IPMC_is _broken thanks - although I don't share your views about the brokenness of the Incubator (hence YAMP to have a more granular view on things), having all the suggestions for change in a single place should help build consensus on what we actually want to do. -Bertrand
Re: YAMP to fix the Incubator (*)
And you seem to consistently imply that my proposal means "destroy it" when I've constantly demonstrated that in fact it's a series of steps, that are easily reversible in the traditional Apache way. The documentation moving to the stewardship of ComDev not working out? Move it back. Probationary TLPs not working out? Move them back. Anyways I'm done pointing it out. ++ Chris Mattmann, Ph.D. Senior Computer Scientist NASA Jet Propulsion Laboratory Pasadena, CA 91109 USA Office: 171-266B, Mailstop: 171-246 Email: chris.a.mattm...@nasa.gov WWW: http://sunset.usc.edu/~mattmann/ ++ Adjunct Assistant Professor, Computer Science Department University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA 90089 USA ++ -Original Message- From: Ross Gardler Reply-To: "general@incubator.apache.org" Date: Tuesday, May 14, 2013 8:11 AM To: general Subject: Re: YAMP to fix the Incubator (*) >I've removed the reference to me. It seemed to imply I agree with your >position here. I do not. I was merely encouraging you to add your >suggestion to the document since you felt it was being ignored. > >In my opinion the IPMC is not broken. My suggestions for some minor >improvements are on the wiki page. > >Ross > >Sent from a mobile device, please excuse mistakes and brevity >On 14 May 2013 18:44, "Mattmann, Chris A (398J)" < >chris.a.mattm...@jpl.nasa.gov> wrote: > >> hahhahha, done! >> >> >>http://wiki.apache.org/incubator/IncubatorIssues2013#Issue_08_-_The_IPMC_ >>is >> _broken >> >> >> ++ >> Chris Mattmann, Ph.D. >> Senior Computer Scientist >> NASA Jet Propulsion Laboratory Pasadena, CA 91109 USA >> Office: 171-266B, Mailstop: 171-246 >> Email: chris.a.mattm...@nasa.gov >> WWW: http://sunset.usc.edu/~mattmann/ >> ++ >> Adjunct Assistant Professor, Computer Science Department >> University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA 90089 USA >> ++++++++++++++ >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -Original Message- >> From: Ross Gardler >> Reply-To: "general@incubator.apache.org" >> Date: Tuesday, May 14, 2013 7:39 AM >> To: general >> Subject: Re: YAMP to fix the Incubator (*) >> >> >Feel free to add a "IPMC is broken" with a solution of "destroy it" and >> >link to TL:DR proposal as a solution. >> > >> >Sent from a mobile device, please excuse mistakes and brevity >> >On 14 May 2013 18:17, "Mattmann, Chris A (398J)" < >> >chris.a.mattm...@jpl.nasa.gov> wrote: >> > >> >> I'm not sure why Yet another proposal is needed. This is already >>longer >> >> than my own, >> >> and kind of completely ignores the fact that I already wrote a TL;DR >> >> version of this. >> >> Bertrand's rationale is that it's hard to track email. Precisely why >>I >> >> wrote my own >> >> proposal for this over a year and a half ago. >> >> >> >> Can someone clearly state in non general terms how this is different >> >>than: >> >> >> >> http://wiki.apache.org/incubator/IncubatorDeconstructionProposal >> >> >> >> >> >> Cheers, >> >> Chris >> >> >> >> ++ >> >> Chris Mattmann, Ph.D. >> >> Senior Computer Scientist >> >> NASA Jet Propulsion Laboratory Pasadena, CA 91109 USA >> >> Office: 171-266B, Mailstop: 171-246 >> >> Email: chris.a.mattm...@nasa.gov >> >> WWW: http://sunset.usc.edu/~mattmann/ >> >> ++ >> >> Adjunct Assistant Professor, Computer Science Department >> >> University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA 90089 USA >> >> ++ >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -Original Message- >> >> From: Ross Gardler >> >> Reply-To: "general@incubator.apache.org" >> >> >> Date: Tuesday, May 14, 2013 1:
Re: YAMP to fix the Incubator (*)
I've removed the reference to me. It seemed to imply I agree with your position here. I do not. I was merely encouraging you to add your suggestion to the document since you felt it was being ignored. In my opinion the IPMC is not broken. My suggestions for some minor improvements are on the wiki page. Ross Sent from a mobile device, please excuse mistakes and brevity On 14 May 2013 18:44, "Mattmann, Chris A (398J)" < chris.a.mattm...@jpl.nasa.gov> wrote: > hahhahha, done! > > http://wiki.apache.org/incubator/IncubatorIssues2013#Issue_08_-_The_IPMC_is > _broken > > > ++ > Chris Mattmann, Ph.D. > Senior Computer Scientist > NASA Jet Propulsion Laboratory Pasadena, CA 91109 USA > Office: 171-266B, Mailstop: 171-246 > Email: chris.a.mattm...@nasa.gov > WWW: http://sunset.usc.edu/~mattmann/ > ++ > Adjunct Assistant Professor, Computer Science Department > University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA 90089 USA > ++ > > > > > > > -Original Message- > From: Ross Gardler > Reply-To: "general@incubator.apache.org" > Date: Tuesday, May 14, 2013 7:39 AM > To: general > Subject: Re: YAMP to fix the Incubator (*) > > >Feel free to add a "IPMC is broken" with a solution of "destroy it" and > >link to TL:DR proposal as a solution. > > > >Sent from a mobile device, please excuse mistakes and brevity > >On 14 May 2013 18:17, "Mattmann, Chris A (398J)" < > >chris.a.mattm...@jpl.nasa.gov> wrote: > > > >> I'm not sure why Yet another proposal is needed. This is already longer > >> than my own, > >> and kind of completely ignores the fact that I already wrote a TL;DR > >> version of this. > >> Bertrand's rationale is that it's hard to track email. Precisely why I > >> wrote my own > >> proposal for this over a year and a half ago. > >> > >> Can someone clearly state in non general terms how this is different > >>than: > >> > >> http://wiki.apache.org/incubator/IncubatorDeconstructionProposal > >> > >> > >> Cheers, > >> Chris > >> > >> ++ > >> Chris Mattmann, Ph.D. > >> Senior Computer Scientist > >> NASA Jet Propulsion Laboratory Pasadena, CA 91109 USA > >> Office: 171-266B, Mailstop: 171-246 > >> Email: chris.a.mattm...@nasa.gov > >> WWW: http://sunset.usc.edu/~mattmann/ > >> ++ > >> Adjunct Assistant Professor, Computer Science Department > >> University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA 90089 USA > >> ++ > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> -Original Message- > >> From: Ross Gardler > >> Reply-To: "general@incubator.apache.org" > >> Date: Tuesday, May 14, 2013 1:44 AM > >> To: "general@incubator.apache.org" > >> Subject: Re: YAMP to fix the Incubator (*) > >> > >> >There is already some really good ideas in this page. Thank you for > >> >kicking this off Bertrand. > >> > > >> >http://wiki.apache.org/incubator/IncubatorIssues2013 > >> > > >> >On 13 May 2013 15:04, Bertrand Delacretaz > >>wrote: > >> >> (Yet Another Meta Proposal ;-) > >> >> > >> >> Dunno if it's just me but I have totally lost track of what the > >> >> current proposals are, who's supporting which options etc. > >> >> > >> >> To try to make sense of all this, I have created > >> >> http://wiki.apache.org/incubator/IncubatorIssues2013 and suggest > that > >> >> whoever thinks the Incubator needs improvements lists their issues > >> >> there, as concisely as possible, with suggestions for fixing. > >> >> > >> >> People can then comment there (with their names in brackets so we see > >> >> who says what) - having all that on one page should help. > >> >> > >> >> -Bertrand > >> >> > >> >> (*) I actually don't think the Incubator is broken BTW...but fleshing > >> >> out that page should allow us to find out > >> >> > >> >> - > >> >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org > >> >> For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org > >> >> > >> > > >> >- > >> >To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org > >> >For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org > >> > > >> > >> > >> - > >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org > >> For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org > >> > >> > > > - > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org > For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org > >
Re: YAMP to fix the Incubator (*)
hahhahha, done! http://wiki.apache.org/incubator/IncubatorIssues2013#Issue_08_-_The_IPMC_is _broken ++ Chris Mattmann, Ph.D. Senior Computer Scientist NASA Jet Propulsion Laboratory Pasadena, CA 91109 USA Office: 171-266B, Mailstop: 171-246 Email: chris.a.mattm...@nasa.gov WWW: http://sunset.usc.edu/~mattmann/ ++ Adjunct Assistant Professor, Computer Science Department University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA 90089 USA ++ -Original Message- From: Ross Gardler Reply-To: "general@incubator.apache.org" Date: Tuesday, May 14, 2013 7:39 AM To: general Subject: Re: YAMP to fix the Incubator (*) >Feel free to add a "IPMC is broken" with a solution of "destroy it" and >link to TL:DR proposal as a solution. > >Sent from a mobile device, please excuse mistakes and brevity >On 14 May 2013 18:17, "Mattmann, Chris A (398J)" < >chris.a.mattm...@jpl.nasa.gov> wrote: > >> I'm not sure why Yet another proposal is needed. This is already longer >> than my own, >> and kind of completely ignores the fact that I already wrote a TL;DR >> version of this. >> Bertrand's rationale is that it's hard to track email. Precisely why I >> wrote my own >> proposal for this over a year and a half ago. >> >> Can someone clearly state in non general terms how this is different >>than: >> >> http://wiki.apache.org/incubator/IncubatorDeconstructionProposal >> >> >> Cheers, >> Chris >> >> ++ >> Chris Mattmann, Ph.D. >> Senior Computer Scientist >> NASA Jet Propulsion Laboratory Pasadena, CA 91109 USA >> Office: 171-266B, Mailstop: 171-246 >> Email: chris.a.mattm...@nasa.gov >> WWW: http://sunset.usc.edu/~mattmann/ >> ++ >> Adjunct Assistant Professor, Computer Science Department >> University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA 90089 USA >> ++++++++++++++++++ >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -Original Message- >> From: Ross Gardler >> Reply-To: "general@incubator.apache.org" >> Date: Tuesday, May 14, 2013 1:44 AM >> To: "general@incubator.apache.org" >> Subject: Re: YAMP to fix the Incubator (*) >> >> >There is already some really good ideas in this page. Thank you for >> >kicking this off Bertrand. >> > >> >http://wiki.apache.org/incubator/IncubatorIssues2013 >> > >> >On 13 May 2013 15:04, Bertrand Delacretaz >>wrote: >> >> (Yet Another Meta Proposal ;-) >> >> >> >> Dunno if it's just me but I have totally lost track of what the >> >> current proposals are, who's supporting which options etc. >> >> >> >> To try to make sense of all this, I have created >> >> http://wiki.apache.org/incubator/IncubatorIssues2013 and suggest that >> >> whoever thinks the Incubator needs improvements lists their issues >> >> there, as concisely as possible, with suggestions for fixing. >> >> >> >> People can then comment there (with their names in brackets so we see >> >> who says what) - having all that on one page should help. >> >> >> >> -Bertrand >> >> >> >> (*) I actually don't think the Incubator is broken BTW...but fleshing >> >> out that page should allow us to find out >> >> >> >> - >> >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org >> >> For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org >> >> >> > >> >- >> >To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org >> >For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org >> > >> >> >> - >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org >> For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org >> >> - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: YAMP to fix the Incubator (*)
Feel free to add a "IPMC is broken" with a solution of "destroy it" and link to TL:DR proposal as a solution. Sent from a mobile device, please excuse mistakes and brevity On 14 May 2013 18:17, "Mattmann, Chris A (398J)" < chris.a.mattm...@jpl.nasa.gov> wrote: > I'm not sure why Yet another proposal is needed. This is already longer > than my own, > and kind of completely ignores the fact that I already wrote a TL;DR > version of this. > Bertrand's rationale is that it's hard to track email. Precisely why I > wrote my own > proposal for this over a year and a half ago. > > Can someone clearly state in non general terms how this is different than: > > http://wiki.apache.org/incubator/IncubatorDeconstructionProposal > > > Cheers, > Chris > > ++ > Chris Mattmann, Ph.D. > Senior Computer Scientist > NASA Jet Propulsion Laboratory Pasadena, CA 91109 USA > Office: 171-266B, Mailstop: 171-246 > Email: chris.a.mattm...@nasa.gov > WWW: http://sunset.usc.edu/~mattmann/ > ++ > Adjunct Assistant Professor, Computer Science Department > University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA 90089 USA > ++ > > > > > > > -Original Message- > From: Ross Gardler > Reply-To: "general@incubator.apache.org" > Date: Tuesday, May 14, 2013 1:44 AM > To: "general@incubator.apache.org" > Subject: Re: YAMP to fix the Incubator (*) > > >There is already some really good ideas in this page. Thank you for > >kicking this off Bertrand. > > > >http://wiki.apache.org/incubator/IncubatorIssues2013 > > > >On 13 May 2013 15:04, Bertrand Delacretaz wrote: > >> (Yet Another Meta Proposal ;-) > >> > >> Dunno if it's just me but I have totally lost track of what the > >> current proposals are, who's supporting which options etc. > >> > >> To try to make sense of all this, I have created > >> http://wiki.apache.org/incubator/IncubatorIssues2013 and suggest that > >> whoever thinks the Incubator needs improvements lists their issues > >> there, as concisely as possible, with suggestions for fixing. > >> > >> People can then comment there (with their names in brackets so we see > >> who says what) - having all that on one page should help. > >> > >> -Bertrand > >> > >> (*) I actually don't think the Incubator is broken BTW...but fleshing > >> out that page should allow us to find out > >> > >> - > >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org > >> For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org > >> > > > >- > >To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org > >For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org > > > > > - > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org > For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org > >
Re: YAMP to fix the Incubator (*)
I'm not sure why Yet another proposal is needed. This is already longer than my own, and kind of completely ignores the fact that I already wrote a TL;DR version of this. Bertrand's rationale is that it's hard to track email. Precisely why I wrote my own proposal for this over a year and a half ago. Can someone clearly state in non general terms how this is different than: http://wiki.apache.org/incubator/IncubatorDeconstructionProposal Cheers, Chris ++ Chris Mattmann, Ph.D. Senior Computer Scientist NASA Jet Propulsion Laboratory Pasadena, CA 91109 USA Office: 171-266B, Mailstop: 171-246 Email: chris.a.mattm...@nasa.gov WWW: http://sunset.usc.edu/~mattmann/ ++ Adjunct Assistant Professor, Computer Science Department University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA 90089 USA ++ -Original Message- From: Ross Gardler Reply-To: "general@incubator.apache.org" Date: Tuesday, May 14, 2013 1:44 AM To: "general@incubator.apache.org" Subject: Re: YAMP to fix the Incubator (*) >There is already some really good ideas in this page. Thank you for >kicking this off Bertrand. > >http://wiki.apache.org/incubator/IncubatorIssues2013 > >On 13 May 2013 15:04, Bertrand Delacretaz wrote: >> (Yet Another Meta Proposal ;-) >> >> Dunno if it's just me but I have totally lost track of what the >> current proposals are, who's supporting which options etc. >> >> To try to make sense of all this, I have created >> http://wiki.apache.org/incubator/IncubatorIssues2013 and suggest that >> whoever thinks the Incubator needs improvements lists their issues >> there, as concisely as possible, with suggestions for fixing. >> >> People can then comment there (with their names in brackets so we see >> who says what) - having all that on one page should help. >> >> -Bertrand >> >> (*) I actually don't think the Incubator is broken BTW...but fleshing >> out that page should allow us to find out >> >> - >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org >> For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org >> > >- >To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org >For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org > - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: YAMP to fix the Incubator (*)
There is already some really good ideas in this page. Thank you for kicking this off Bertrand. http://wiki.apache.org/incubator/IncubatorIssues2013 On 13 May 2013 15:04, Bertrand Delacretaz wrote: > (Yet Another Meta Proposal ;-) > > Dunno if it's just me but I have totally lost track of what the > current proposals are, who's supporting which options etc. > > To try to make sense of all this, I have created > http://wiki.apache.org/incubator/IncubatorIssues2013 and suggest that > whoever thinks the Incubator needs improvements lists their issues > there, as concisely as possible, with suggestions for fixing. > > People can then comment there (with their names in brackets so we see > who says what) - having all that on one page should help. > > -Bertrand > > (*) I actually don't think the Incubator is broken BTW...but fleshing > out that page should allow us to find out > > - > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org > For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org > - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
YAMP to fix the Incubator (*)
(Yet Another Meta Proposal ;-) Dunno if it's just me but I have totally lost track of what the current proposals are, who's supporting which options etc. To try to make sense of all this, I have created http://wiki.apache.org/incubator/IncubatorIssues2013 and suggest that whoever thinks the Incubator needs improvements lists their issues there, as concisely as possible, with suggestions for fixing. People can then comment there (with their names in brackets so we see who says what) - having all that on one page should help. -Bertrand (*) I actually don't think the Incubator is broken BTW...but fleshing out that page should allow us to find out - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
