Re: Jakarta Support provider

[Jim Jagielski]

Shapira, Yoav wrote:
> 
> recently, having seen dissatisfaction in the ranks that some
> high-profile places (java.sun.com, JBoss.com) didn't always make it
> clear who owns Tomcat.
> 

+1. This is especially true when ambiguity is inserted either
by accident, ignorance or intent. One thing which we are
rigorously(sp?) trying to do is:

   1. "Apache" != "web server" (although that is the common
  understanding; but we are trying hard to ensure that
  people know that the ASF is more than just the web server
  and using Apache HTTP Server goes a long way)
   2. Prefacing the "normal" names with 'Apache'
  as well, eg: Apache Tomcat, Apache Axis, etc...
-- 
===
   Jim Jagielski   [|]   [EMAIL PROTECTED]   [|]   http://www.jaguNET.com/
"There 10 types of people: those who read binary and everyone else."

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Re: Jakarta Support provider

[Jim Jagielski]

Henri Yandell wrote:
> 

I hope that as much discussion went into this when JBoss
released their PR regarding Apache-Tomcat integration :)

PS: I will work on getting the site updated.
-- 
===
   Jim Jagielski   [|]   [EMAIL PROTECTED]   [|]   http://www.jaguNET.com/
"There 10 types of people: those who read binary and everyone else."

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RE: Jakarta Support provider

[Shapira, Yoav]

Hi,

>Cool. These things are usually misunderstandings between marketing
depts
>eager to look good and our organisation's legal needs etc. Are you able
to
>talk privately with someone there at all?

Yeah, I can.  They're very accommodating, understanding, and
enthusiastic about the ASF, its processes, and its people.  I don't
think there'll be any problem...

Yoav



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RE: Jakarta Support provider

[Henri Yandell]

On Thu, 2 Dec 2004, Shapira, Yoav wrote:
Hi,
We can't impose a requirement on Covalent to tame down their site, can
we? ;)  But for our vendor page, it makes sense, especially as we can't
show any form of preference.  Just like it makes sense to add them to
the page in the first place ;)
Apart from where trademarks are concerned, unless we have someone who 
works there and can point out the funny jokes on the website in front of 
their CEO ;)

Though that's only really due to the funny "the only source of full 
commercial support for Apache & Tomcat" and "deepest talent pool of Apache 
experts in the industry". I assume from the last one that most of the 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] list works there? :)

For Tomcat, we like to use the full "Apache Jakarta Tomcat" name even
though it's more verbose.  We went through a discussion on this matter
recently, having seen dissatisfaction in the ranks that some
high-profile places (java.sun.com, JBoss.com) didn't always make it
clear who owns Tomcat.
Yep. And 'Apache' should be 'Apache HTTP Server' somewhere in there I 
believe. I think I'm right in thinking that you can just use the correct 
term once, then shorten it for the rest of the document.

(Full disclosure on this post: I consult for Covalent on a limited
basis)
Cool. These things are usually misunderstandings between marketing depts 
eager to look good and our organisation's legal needs etc. Are you able to 
talk privately with someone there at all?

Pointing out the problems in their front page would be nice. Let me 
click on the deepest talent pool to see exactly who works there. :)

The [EMAIL PROTECTED] list is the correct place for us to be directing the 
trademark stuff, so I've cross-list cc'd them in on the thread again.

Hen
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RE: Jakarta Support provider

[Shapira, Yoav]

Hi,
We can't impose a requirement on Covalent to tame down their site, can
we? ;)  But for our vendor page, it makes sense, especially as we can't
show any form of preference.  Just like it makes sense to add them to
the page in the first place ;)

For Tomcat, we like to use the full "Apache Jakarta Tomcat" name even
though it's more verbose.  We went through a discussion on this matter
recently, having seen dissatisfaction in the ranks that some
high-profile places (java.sun.com, JBoss.com) didn't always make it
clear who owns Tomcat.

(Full disclosure on this post: I consult for Covalent on a limited
basis)

Yoav Shapira http://www.yoavshapira.com


>-Original Message-
>From: Dain Sundstrom [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Sent: Thursday, December 02, 2004 12:33 AM
>To: Jakarta General List
>Subject: Re: Jakarta Support provider
>
>Are you going to "tame" down your website also?
>
>-dain
>
>On Dec 1, 2004, at 5:55 PM, Mark Brewer wrote:
>
>> OK.  Clearly we would tame it down if you'd like.  That's our
>> "marketing
>> blurb" from our website.
>>
>> Let us know.
>> Thanks - Mark
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Noel J. Bergman [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> Sent: Wednesday, December 01, 2004 5:50 PM
>> To: Jakarta General List
>> Cc: Mark Brewer; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> Subject: RE: Jakarta Support provider
>>
>>
>> I don't know how much vetting we do, but despite the fact that this
is
>> a
>> vendor page, I believe that a lot of people would complain about the
>> phrase "[Covalent is] the only source of full commercial support for
>> Apache & Tomcat."
>>
>> Now that the ASF has established the PRC, perhaps it is time we
turned
>> control over such vendor pages to the PRC to make sure that a message
>> consistent with the ASF's neutrality is preserved.
>>
>>  --- Noel
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Mark Brewer [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> Sent: Wednesday, December 01, 2004 19:48
>> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> Subject: Jakarta Support provider
>>
>>
>> To whom it concerns,
>>
>> Covalent Technologies would like to be added to Developer Support
>> section of this page on the Jakarta site:
>> http://jakarta.apache.org/site/vendors.html
>>
>> Below is the info you've requested.
>>
>> Website: www.covalent.net <http://www.covalent.net>
>> Description: Covalent is the leader in products and services for
Apache
>> & Tomcat, the world's leading Web server, and the only source of full
>> commercial support for Apache & Tomcat.   Covalent has assembled the
>> deepest talent pool of Apache experts in the industry. Through
>> Covalent's products and services, Apache/Tomcat users receive all the
>> flexibility and benefits of open source, with the support and
>> reliability of a commercial enterprise fully dedicated to those open
>> source technologies.
>> Location:  Worldwide
>> Contact: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>
>> Let us know if there is anything further you require.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Mark Brewer
>> 925.974.8800 x5
>>
>>
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>>
>
>
>-
>To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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and/or privileged.  This e-mail is intended only for the individual(s) to whom 
it is addressed, and may not be saved, copied, printed, disclosed or used by 
anyone else.  If you are not the(an) intended recipient, please immediately 
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Re: Jakarta Support provider

[Dain Sundstrom]

Are you going to "tame" down your website also?
-dain
On Dec 1, 2004, at 5:55 PM, Mark Brewer wrote:
OK.  Clearly we would tame it down if you'd like.  That's our 
"marketing
blurb" from our website.

Let us know.
Thanks - Mark
-Original Message-
From: Noel J. Bergman [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, December 01, 2004 5:50 PM
To: Jakarta General List
Cc: Mark Brewer; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: Jakarta Support provider
I don't know how much vetting we do, but despite the fact that this is 
a
vendor page, I believe that a lot of people would complain about the
phrase "[Covalent is] the only source of full commercial support for
Apache & Tomcat."

Now that the ASF has established the PRC, perhaps it is time we turned
control over such vendor pages to the PRC to make sure that a message
consistent with the ASF's neutrality is preserved.
--- Noel
-Original Message-
From: Mark Brewer [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, December 01, 2004 19:48
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Jakarta Support provider
To whom it concerns,
Covalent Technologies would like to be added to Developer Support
section of this page on the Jakarta site:
http://jakarta.apache.org/site/vendors.html
Below is the info you've requested.
Website: www.covalent.net <http://www.covalent.net>
Description: Covalent is the leader in products and services for Apache
& Tomcat, the world's leading Web server, and the only source of full
commercial support for Apache & Tomcat.   Covalent has assembled the
deepest talent pool of Apache experts in the industry. Through
Covalent's products and services, Apache/Tomcat users receive all the
flexibility and benefits of open source, with the support and
reliability of a commercial enterprise fully dedicated to those open
source technologies.
Location:  Worldwide
Contact: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Let us know if there is anything further you require.
Thanks,
Mark Brewer
925.974.8800 x5
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RE: Jakarta Support provider

[Henri Yandell]

Also, "Apache & Tomcat" are the wrong ways to respond to those products. 
I don't think there's anything official that states the correct names yet, 
but as far as I know it should be:

'Apache HTTP Server'
and
'Apache Tomcat' or 'Apache Jakarta Tomcat'
I assume there are rules on how to use these once, then use a shorter 
version, but I've no understanding of trademarks etc. Others on this list 
do. I just know that the ASF is working to maintain them by asking that 
people refer to the products correctly.

Just FYI,
Hen
On Wed, 1 Dec 2004, Mark Brewer wrote:
OK.  Clearly we would tame it down if you'd like.  That's our "marketing
blurb" from our website.
Let us know.
Thanks - Mark
-Original Message-
From: Noel J. Bergman [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, December 01, 2004 5:50 PM
To: Jakarta General List
Cc: Mark Brewer; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: Jakarta Support provider
I don't know how much vetting we do, but despite the fact that this is a
vendor page, I believe that a lot of people would complain about the
phrase "[Covalent is] the only source of full commercial support for
Apache & Tomcat."
Now that the ASF has established the PRC, perhaps it is time we turned
control over such vendor pages to the PRC to make sure that a message
consistent with the ASF's neutrality is preserved.
--- Noel
-Original Message-
From: Mark Brewer [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, December 01, 2004 19:48
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Jakarta Support provider
To whom it concerns,
Covalent Technologies would like to be added to Developer Support
section of this page on the Jakarta site:
http://jakarta.apache.org/site/vendors.html
Below is the info you've requested.
Website: www.covalent.net <http://www.covalent.net>
Description: Covalent is the leader in products and services for Apache
& Tomcat, the world's leading Web server, and the only source of full
commercial support for Apache & Tomcat.   Covalent has assembled the
deepest talent pool of Apache experts in the industry. Through
Covalent's products and services, Apache/Tomcat users receive all the
flexibility and benefits of open source, with the support and
reliability of a commercial enterprise fully dedicated to those open
source technologies.
Location:  Worldwide
Contact: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Let us know if there is anything further you require.
Thanks,
Mark Brewer
925.974.8800 x5
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To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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RE: Jakarta Support provider

[Mark Brewer]

OK.  Clearly we would tame it down if you'd like.  That's our "marketing
blurb" from our website.

Let us know.
Thanks - Mark

-Original Message-
From: Noel J. Bergman [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Wednesday, December 01, 2004 5:50 PM
To: Jakarta General List
Cc: Mark Brewer; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: Jakarta Support provider


I don't know how much vetting we do, but despite the fact that this is a
vendor page, I believe that a lot of people would complain about the
phrase "[Covalent is] the only source of full commercial support for
Apache & Tomcat."

Now that the ASF has established the PRC, perhaps it is time we turned
control over such vendor pages to the PRC to make sure that a message
consistent with the ASF's neutrality is preserved.

--- Noel

-Original Message-
From: Mark Brewer [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, December 01, 2004 19:48
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Jakarta Support provider


To whom it concerns,

Covalent Technologies would like to be added to Developer Support
section of this page on the Jakarta site:
http://jakarta.apache.org/site/vendors.html

Below is the info you've requested.

Website: www.covalent.net <http://www.covalent.net>
Description: Covalent is the leader in products and services for Apache
& Tomcat, the world's leading Web server, and the only source of full
commercial support for Apache & Tomcat.   Covalent has assembled the
deepest talent pool of Apache experts in the industry. Through
Covalent's products and services, Apache/Tomcat users receive all the
flexibility and benefits of open source, with the support and
reliability of a commercial enterprise fully dedicated to those open
source technologies.
Location:  Worldwide
Contact: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Let us know if there is anything further you require.

Thanks,

Mark Brewer
925.974.8800 x5


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RE: Jakarta Support provider

[Noel J. Bergman]

I don't know how much vetting we do, but despite the fact that this is a
vendor page, I believe that a lot of people would complain about the phrase
"[Covalent is] the only source of full commercial support for Apache &
Tomcat."

Now that the ASF has established the PRC, perhaps it is time we turned
control over such vendor pages to the PRC to make sure that a message
consistent with the ASF's neutrality is preserved.

--- Noel

-Original Message-
From: Mark Brewer [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, December 01, 2004 19:48
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Jakarta Support provider


To whom it concerns,

Covalent Technologies would like to be added to Developer Support
section of this page on the Jakarta site:
http://jakarta.apache.org/site/vendors.html

Below is the info you've requested.

Website: www.covalent.net <http://www.covalent.net>
Description: Covalent is the leader in products and services for Apache
& Tomcat, the world's leading Web server, and the only source of full
commercial support for Apache & Tomcat.   Covalent has assembled the
deepest talent pool of Apache experts in the industry. Through
Covalent's products and services, Apache/Tomcat users receive all the
flexibility and benefits of open source, with the support and
reliability of a commercial enterprise fully dedicated to those open
source technologies.
Location:  Worldwide
Contact: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Let us know if there is anything further you require.

Thanks,

Mark Brewer
925.974.8800 x5


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Jakarta Support provider

[Mark Brewer]

To whom it concerns,
 
Covalent Technologies would like to be added to Developer Support
section of this page on the Jakarta site:
http://jakarta.apache.org/site/vendors.html
 
Below is the info you've requested.
 
Website: www.covalent.net  
Description: Covalent is the leader in products and services for Apache
& Tomcat, the world's leading Web server, and the only source of full
commercial support for Apache & Tomcat.   Covalent has assembled the
deepest talent pool of Apache experts in the industry. Through
Covalent's products and services, Apache/Tomcat users receive all the
flexibility and benefits of open source, with the support and
reliability of a commercial enterprise fully dedicated to those open
source technologies. 
Location:  Worldwide
Contact: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 
Let us know if there is anything further you require.
 
Thanks,
 
Mark Brewer
925.974.8800 x5