Re: [gentoo-dev] New category: net-voip
On Tue, 18 Jul 2006 21:40:07 +0100 Ciaran McCreesh [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Tue, 18 Jul 2006 21:18:22 +0200 Kevin F. Quinn [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: | Uh, as far as I recall, you've yet to come up with any technical | explanation other than it breaks one of my pet projects... The | gains of consistency and manageability far outweigh the minor | inconvenience. | | Scan back through the -dev archives. We've been over this many times, | in excruciating detail, not that it ever makes any difference. Well that's kinda the point. You haven't. Every time it's just the same vague stuff breaks, without anything genuine value of stuff that isn't someone's pet poorly written toy to back it up. Did you bother to search back through the archives? I know I've posted about this ad nauseum before. Things that package moves cause: 1) Dependencies throughout the tree have to be updated 2) Current installations become inconsistent with respect to the tree 3) Binary packages go out-of-date 4) Increased sync load 5) Loss of history, unless the move is performed server-side (i.e. extra work for infra) fixpackages makes some effort to fix 3, but it's a band-aid solution. For a start, it assumes the binary packages are all present however binary packages may be archived off-line. fixpackages also takes a fair amount of resource to run, resource that end-users don't need to commit if we avoid unnecessary package moves. 4 5 would be mitigated when/if we move to SVN. In my opinion moving packages from one category to another just causes unnecessary disruption to the tree - all relevant dependencies throughout the tree have to be altered, putting current installations out-of-date with respect to it. The key issue is that categories are semantically inadequate. Deciding which category a package fits into is subjective, frequently a package fits into many categories yet the category system insists that a package belong to one and only one category. Usually these big package moves occur when people want to align herds with categories, which is a waste of time - also it's daft as packages can sensibly belong to more than one herd. Unfortunately we see a lot of it in the tree. This week it's packages that have voip functionality that are being moved to net-voip. In six months time it'll be someone else wanting to move all packages with IM functionality into net-im. In herd-speak, these packages could easily belong to both the voip and im herds, should such exist; those providing c++ libraries could also belong to the cpp herd. This is useful, as the maintainers of those herds can each deal with issues in their field. It doesn't matter which category it's in. The only concrete thing categories give us is the ability to have two packages with the same upstream name without having to mangle the upstream name. Unfortunately the category system is deeply embedded in portage and the tree, so changing that system is simply not going to happen, which is why I've stopped whinging about the semantic inadequacy of the system. -- Kevin F. Quinn signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-dev] making the firefox USE flag a global one
Hanno Böck wrote: Am Dienstag, 18. Juli 2006 14:06 schrieb Simon Stelling: If nobody objects, I'd like to push that change through in two weeks. As most of then are use ff instead of mozilla and that'll be deprecated in favour of using ff by default and seamonkey by seamonkey useflag, I don't think this makes sense. I can't follow, sorry. Sure, the new flag will be 'build against ff instead of seamonkey', but then it's still valid use, no? -- Kind Regards, Simon Stelling Gentoo/AMD64 Developer -- gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] Hiatus
On Saturday 15 July 2006 19:25, Henrik Brix Andersen wrote: As some of you already know, I will be taking a hiatus from Gentoo starting this weekend. While I am gone, the mobile herd is pretty much left without active developers. Uberlord and phreak have already adopted some of the more critical ebuilds, but quite a few are still orphaned as seen in this report from 'herdstat -dp brix': app-laptop/laptop-mode-tools app-laptop/radeontool app-laptop/tp_smapi net-misc/radvd I'll take these too net-wireless/madwifi-ng net-wireless/madwifi-ng-tools I'm very reluctant to take these - I do have the hardware, but it's on my home amd64 hardened server whose main connection is wireless and getting wired to is a PITA. Any other madwifi users want to step up and take these? I know there are a few of you ;) -- Roy Marples [EMAIL PROTECTED] Gentoo/Linux Developer (baselayout, networking) -- gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] Yet Another Victim
Haha, *prints that out and puts it on his monitor* :D On Sun, 2006-07-16 at 22:05 +0200, Jakub Moc wrote: Michael Cummings wrote: I'm happy to announce a new addition to the perl team Welcome! Perl, huh? :P http://fastar.detonate.net/ftp/images/matrixse/18/6.jpg -- gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
[gentoo-dev] sys-libs/slang - call for maintainer
Hello everyone, I've filed a bug about slang-2 version bump [1] more than one year ago. As it hasn't moved anywhere, I'm sending a call for maintainer here. It's a pretty important bump for UTF-8 compatibility and is really needed to get rid of those hackish slang UTF-8 patches in stuff like app-misc/mc that just tend to break stuff. Any volunteers? Thanks! [1] http://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=95247 -- Best regards, Jakub Moc mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] GPG signature: http://subkeys.pgp.net:11371/pks/lookup?op=getsearch=0xCEBA3D9E Primary key fingerprint: D2D7 933C 9BA1 C95B 2C95 B30F 8717 D5FD CEBA 3D9E ... still no signature ;) signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [gentoo-dev] sys-libs/slang - call for maintainer
On Wednesday 19 July 2006 15:52, Jakub Moc wrote: Any volunteers? Thanks! If nobody else steps in, I'll take a look to this as soon as I'm sure pulseaudio is good enough in Portage. -- Diego Flameeyes Pettenò - http://farragut.flameeyes.is-a-geek.org/ Gentoo/Alt lead, Gentoo/FreeBSD, Video, AMD64, Sound, PAM, KDE pgpRTAjswDmEf.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-dev] Hiatus
Roy Marples wrote: On Saturday 15 July 2006 19:25, Henrik Brix Andersen wrote: As some of you already know, I will be taking a hiatus from Gentoo starting this weekend. While I am gone, the mobile herd is pretty much left without active developers. Uberlord and phreak have already adopted some of the more critical ebuilds, but quite a few are still orphaned as seen in this report from 'herdstat -dp brix': app-laptop/laptop-mode-tools app-laptop/radeontool app-laptop/tp_smapi net-misc/radvd I'll take these too net-wireless/madwifi-ng net-wireless/madwifi-ng-tools I'm very reluctant to take these - I do have the hardware, but it's on my home amd64 hardened server whose main connection is wireless and getting wired to is a PITA. Any other madwifi users want to step up and take these? I know there are a few of you ;) I could probably do madwifi-ng - I don't own the hardware personally, but my best friend, and co-worker has a card that I can use at any time, so I have it available to me. Only have x86 systems however. Steev -- gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] New category: net-voip
On Wed, 19 Jul 2006 08:57:32 +0200 Kevin F. Quinn [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: | Things that package moves cause: | 1) Dependencies throughout the tree have to be updated And? This isn't a breakage. | 2) Current installations become inconsistent with respect to the tree Uh, current installations become 'inconsistent' whenever anyone changes *anything* in the tree. | 3) Binary packages go out-of-date So rebuild them. Binary packages go out of date whenever someone does a version bump too. | 4) Increased sync load Not really significant in comparison to, say, an arch team keywording a new KDE or Gnome stable. | 5) Loss of history, unless the move is performed server-side (i.e. | extra work for infra) History's in the ChangeLog. | The key issue is that categories are semantically inadequate. That's no reason to use them improperly. So again, you've *not* given any reasons to avoid sensible package moves. This happens every time the topic comes up, and then when taken up on it, certain people quickly resort to accusations of trolling rather than providing any genuine evidence that the drawbacks outweigh the benefits... -- Ciaran McCreesh Mail: ciaran dot mccreesh at blueyonder.co.uk -- gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] making the firefox USE flag a global one
Am Mittwoch, 19. Juli 2006 09:41 schrieb Simon Stelling: I can't follow, sorry. Sure, the new flag will be 'build against ff instead of seamonkey', but then it's still valid use, no? No, we have a flag seamonkey (that is already global) that means build against seamonkey, so ff is considered default if that flag is not set. This could be discussed, but imho we definitely need a standard for that, that means one of them, firefor or seamonkey, has to die. I don't really care which one, but it should be the same for the whole tree. -- Hanno Böck Blog: http://www.hboeck.de/ GPG: 3DBD3B20 Jabber: [EMAIL PROTECTED] pgp6WQcpDNLbC.pgp Description: PGP signature
[gentoo-dev] Einput eclass
Below is a link to an enhanced input eclass as well as a screenshot. This eclass was made to simplify interacting with the user at pkg_config(). http://jawed.name/dev/gentoo/einput.eclass http://jawed.name/dev/gentoo/einput.png (code used to create this output is below) This eclass started off as a small set of scripts used by academia at my current campus and eventually was built upon. I was the original author and modified it later to be ebuild friendly. It has support for serial consoles. The main purpose of this eclass is to make life simpler for developers that try to streamline --config interaction. For example, having --config with net-proxy/squid may ask for where to create the swap directories, sed the config and then issue a squid -z for the user. Taking it further, it may ask if the user wants the --config to add the runlevel init scripts. Upgrades to packages which require conversion of data catalogs (such as MySQL/PostgreSQL data directories) could also be streamlined with user interaction. In general, I think having more post install configurations to streamline the basics for core packages will be beneficial to both Gentoo newcomers and gurus. The einput.eclass should help Gentoo developers lives easier in achieving in that goal. I would like to continue to build upon this eclass. Regards, John -- gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
[gentoo-dev] Re: New category: net-voip
Ned Ludd [EMAIL PROTECTED] posted [EMAIL PROTECTED], excerpted below, on Wed, 19 Jul 2006 11:10:51 -0400: On Tue, 2006-07-18 at 17:39 -0400, Mike Frysinger wrote: On Tuesday 18 July 2006 14:17, Ned Ludd wrote: There is no consistency for end users when stuff keeps getting shuffled around. i dont see why end users should care ... devs should update the profile/updates/ files and portage should do the rest Every single year quarter after quarter the more updates that happen the slower portage is becoming. Care to solve that? I don't know all of what portage devs did to fixpackages, but with the 2.1.1-pre series now in ~arch anyway (and I /thought/ in 2.1.0, but I may have been mistaken), it's /so/ much faster, I finally added FEATURES=fixpackages to make.conf -- along with the FEATURES=buildpkg I've had there for some time! Where back with 2.0.5x, it would take forever, starting with moves even before I had a Gentoo installed (I never did figure out why it couldn't start from the date of the last one and only do any new fixes, or at /least/ ignore ones from before my first Gentoo install), now it seems to skip over them all at once and only slow down when it gets to new packages. IOW, it seems like they've implemented the timestamp thing and only update things since then, like I would have thought reasonable to do all along. To put it another way, with new portage, fixpackages doesn't seem to be an issue at all! My first emerge --pretend --update --deep --newuse world (before it's all memory cached) seems to take longer than fixpackages does, now. Either they did something very right, or they did something very wrong and it's skipping everything it should be doing, therefore explaining the dramatic speed improvements! =8^) In any case, I used to dread running fixpackages, but it's now simply not an issue! =8^) -- Duncan - List replies preferred. No HTML msgs. Every nonfree program has a lord, a master -- and if you use the program, he is your master. Richard Stallman -- gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] arch-cruft in use.mask makes me angry
On Saturday 15 July 2006 23:37, Mike Frysinger wrote: On Tuesday 04 July 2006 21:54, Mike Frysinger wrote: can someone remind me why our arch USE flags are in an opt-out system rather than opt-in ? patch attached ... no complaints, i'll merge it in a day or two :p merged -mike pgpi3jxTGFDl3.pgp Description: PGP signature
[gentoo-dev] viewcvs.gentoo.org
viewcvs.gentoo.org is no more. It has been migrated to sources.gentoo.org and the links on the website have been updated. Thanks neysx and ramereth. --Curtis -- gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] sys-libs/slang - call for maintainer
On Wed, 2006-07-19 at 15:52 +0200, Jakub Moc wrote: Hello everyone, I've filed a bug about slang-2 version bump [1] more than one year ago. As it hasn't moved anywhere, I'm sending a call for maintainer here. It's a pretty important bump for UTF-8 compatibility and is really needed to get rid of those hackish slang UTF-8 patches in stuff like app-misc/mc that just tend to break stuff. Just a bit of background since I'm listed as the maintainer. I took an interest in this package because it was a direct dependency on a package I maintained, app-editors/jed. Then CJK came along and applied a bunch of patches and somewhere along the line, CJK became the primary maintainer because no one else would. As for slang-2, there was no immediate package that required version 2, and I could never get the submitted ebuilds to compile for me, so I left the bug alone. I would be grateful for someone to take over this who might have more of an interest in this library as CJK isn't exactly the most manned herd around. Just a note for any future maintainers, app-editors/jed-0.99.16 will not work with slang-2. I believe the newer version that was released in April will (although I only just found out about this release today.) Cheers, Alastair -- gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] viewcvs.gentoo.org
Curtis Napier wrote: viewcvs.gentoo.org is no more. It has been migrated to sources.gentoo.org and the links on the website have been updated. Thanks neysx and ramereth. Just to clarify... viewcvs.g.o will still work, it just points to the new host for viewcvs (which is really viewcv now) stuff. Enjoy :) -- Lance Albertson [EMAIL PROTECTED] Gentoo Infrastructure | Operations Manager --- GPG Public Key: http://www.ramereth.net/lance.asc Key fingerprint: 0423 92F3 544A 1282 5AB1 4D07 416F A15D 27F4 B742 ramereth/irc.freenode.net signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [gentoo-dev] viewcvs.gentoo.org
On Wednesday 19 July 2006 17:26, Lance Albertson wrote: Curtis Napier wrote: viewcvs.gentoo.org is no more. It has been migrated to sources.gentoo.org and the links on the website have been updated. Thanks neysx and ramereth. Just to clarify... viewcvs.g.o will still work, it just points to the new host for viewcvs (which is really viewcv now) stuff. thanks :) -mike pgp52ScSJH5WL.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-dev] Nominations open for the Gentoo Council 2007
thanks to solar and yoswink we have a xml version now: http://dev.gentoo.org/~vapier/council-2006-nominees.xml for you peeps who have yet to speak up at all, please do so in the next week, or i'll start hunting you down when i get back from China :) -mike pgpdvKQjYIPWR.pgp Description: PGP signature
