[gentoo-dev] Re: maintainer-needed@ packages need you!
hasufell wrote: > On 08/30/2014 02:35 PM, J. Roeleveld wrote: >> >> For net-im/skype, > > Screw skype. Please don't. Not all communication partners are linux users. > We have tox [1] on the way. This is far from being ready, especially for non-specialists. It is not even foreseeable whether the Android client will ever be able to do at least audio. (So far, I was not even able to exchange any messages at all. It may be my mistakes, but if I am not able to do it, how could I expect this from casual computer users?)
Re: [gentoo-dev] RFC: GLEP 64: Standardize contents of VDB and establish and API for exporting this information.
On 08/30/14 17:05, Ulrich Mueller wrote: On Sat, 30 Aug 2014, Anthony G Basile wrote: [...] package management systems (PMS) [...] Apart from its other more common uses [1,2], "PMS" in a Gentoo context stands for the "Package Manager Specification" [3] and the project associated with it [4]. So please do not use the same abbreviation for the package manager, as this will lead to confusion. Especially, we must often distinguish between the specification and its implementation in package managers, and using the same term for both will not help with this. Ulrich [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PMS [2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lF4PygY-k7Y [3] http://dev.gentoo.org/~ulm/pms/head/pms.html [4] https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Project:PMS Thanks for that clarification! There are other changes I want to make, but because I can't directly edit the wiki page, I'll wait for more input before sending a delta creffett's way. -- Anthony G. Basile, Ph.D. Gentoo Linux Developer [Hardened] E-Mail: bluen...@gentoo.org GnuPG FP : 1FED FAD9 D82C 52A5 3BAB DC79 9384 FA6E F52D 4BBA GnuPG ID : F52D4BBA
Re: [gentoo-dev] RFC: GLEP 64: Standardize contents of VDB and establish and API for exporting this information.
> On Sat, 30 Aug 2014, Anthony G Basile wrote: > [...] package management systems (PMS) [...] Apart from its other more common uses [1,2], "PMS" in a Gentoo context stands for the "Package Manager Specification" [3] and the project associated with it [4]. So please do not use the same abbreviation for the package manager, as this will lead to confusion. Especially, we must often distinguish between the specification and its implementation in package managers, and using the same term for both will not help with this. Ulrich [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PMS [2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lF4PygY-k7Y [3] http://dev.gentoo.org/~ulm/pms/head/pms.html [4] https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Project:PMS pgpzj0Ie5Z0fE.pgp Description: PGP signature
[gentoo-dev] The future of einstall
Developers,
I believe that we should work towards deprecating and removing
the einstall helper from PMS, for the following reasons:
1. einstall is confusing to new developers and contributors who often
see it as the 'proper' way of installing software -- mostly because of
the name matching econf/emake/einstall scheme. Likely that scheme was
desired in the past.
2. The use for it is pretty scarce. Major build systems and most of
the common custom Makefiles support DESTDIR. For the few remaining
cases, it's rather optimistic throwing of variables into make,
and hoping they would work.
Why do we have einstall?
I don't know the exact reasoning for having it in the first place.
One reason I've heard is that old versions of automake didn't support
DESTDIR, and therefore we had to specify all the directories. However,
DESTDIR support in automake dates back to 1998 when automake 1.3 was
released -- and that pretty much predates Gentoo.
I've asked Ciaran about it, and he said that 'the idea was to avoid
people duplicating anything'. In other words, that einstall was used
only because calling 'emake install DESTDIR="${D}"' was considered bad.
If anyone could shed some more light into this, I'd appreciate that.
What is so bad about einstall?
--
As I mentioned before, it's thoroughly confusing for contributors,
and a few Gentoo developers too. From my little research done lately,
I've discovered about 80 packages that were using einstall though their
build system clearly indicated support for DESTDIR [2]. While the list
may still have a few false positives, it indicates how often einstall
is used mistakenly.
For a comparison, there is less than 40 packages using einstall that
didn't make it to that list. Most of them involve custom build systems
that actually do not require passing all the overrides einstall does --
sometimes plain 'emake install DESTDIR=${D} PREFIX=/usr' or alike would
be enough.
In other words, there's more than twice as much confusion due to it
than real use of it. Even then, the use is not strictly correct.
And lastly, it involves rather corner cases, and I believe PMS should
focus on supporting the common cases.
What should we do?
--
As I see it, we should simply ban einstall in EAPI 6. This way, we can
prevent further mistakes from happening and let developers fix
the current consumers once bumping EAPI (or lastrite them at some
point).
If it becomes really necessary, we can move the function into
an eclass. However, I'd rather not do it unless there is a real gain
from having it there. Custom build systems should be likely handled
with dedicated install phases rather than an 'one size fits all'.
What do you think?
[1]:http://devmanual.gentoo.org/ebuild-writing/functions/src_install/index.html#other-installs
[2]:https://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=521420
--
Best regards,
Michał Górny
signature.asc
Description: PGP signature
[gentoo-dev] RFC: GLEP 64: Standardize contents of VDB and establish and API for exporting this information.
Hi everyone, I've written a GLEP which outlines a standard for what information should be stored by any package management systems (PMS) in /var/db/pkg (VDB) and mandates some API for exporting it to other tools [1]. The need to do so was discussed in the Council during the 20130910 meeting [2]. During that meeting, the council focused on NEEDED.ELF.2 which is recorded by portage, but not paludis. Linkage information is generated during package builds, is expensive to recalculate and is needed by other packages like revdep-pax for PaX marking ELF objects. I've aimed to make the GLEP open to how each PMS team wants to implement this without being too vague. We should also consider carefully the list of items we want cached although we could always update this list later. Feedback welcome. Ref [1] https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/GLEP:64 [2] http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/council/meeting-logs/20130910-summary.txt -- Anthony G. Basile, Ph.D. Gentoo Linux Developer [Hardened] E-Mail: bluen...@gentoo.org GnuPG FP : 1FED FAD9 D82C 52A5 3BAB DC79 9384 FA6E F52D 4BBA GnuPG ID : F52D4BBA
Re: [gentoo-dev] maintainer-needed@ packages need you!
On Saturday, August 30, 2014 04:51:35 PM Michał Górny wrote: > Dnia 2014-08-30, o godz. 14:35:20 > > "J. Roeleveld" napisał(a): > > On Saturday, August 30, 2014 01:46:20 PM Michał Górny wrote: > > > Hello, > > > > > > Right now, we have 1262 packages assigned to maintainer-needed@. Only > > > a few of them have a large number of bugs, many have just version bump > > > requests. 953 packages have no bug open. > > > > > > Please consider adopting some of the packages, or at least fixing some > > > of the relevant bugs. For package - bug count list, take a look at [1]. > > > Please note that this list is not autogenerated, so it will soon be > > > outdated, I hope :). > > > > > > We should also consider removing some of the packages listed there. > > > > > > [1]:http://dev.gentoo.org/~mgorny/maintainer-needed.txt > > > > I'm not a developer, which means I can't actively pick up any packages. If > > helpful, I would be willing to go through older open bugs and see if there > > is anything I can pick up. > > > > For net-im/skype, I did check a few things last week as I had issues > > connecting: > > bugs: 461668, 462504, 440512, 467252, 493068, 512576 are for version <4.3 > > which can no longer connect (Versions are being blocked by Skype upstream) > > I think these can be closed. > > Is it fine to remove all versions <4.3 from the tree then? Should be as they will never work. I got an email from Skype about it which I can forward, but it's in Dutch. (Couldn't quickly find a version in English) > By the way, you can proxy-maintain some of those packages if you like. > See [1]. > > [1]:https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Project:Proxy_Maintainers I'll have a look which of the "maintainer-needed" packages I use and know sufficiently to assist with. -- Joost
Re: [gentoo-dev] maintainer-needed@ packages need you!
Dnia 2014-08-30, o godz. 14:35:20 "J. Roeleveld" napisał(a): > On Saturday, August 30, 2014 01:46:20 PM Michał Górny wrote: > > Hello, > > > > Right now, we have 1262 packages assigned to maintainer-needed@. Only > > a few of them have a large number of bugs, many have just version bump > > requests. 953 packages have no bug open. > > > > Please consider adopting some of the packages, or at least fixing some > > of the relevant bugs. For package - bug count list, take a look at [1]. > > Please note that this list is not autogenerated, so it will soon be > > outdated, I hope :). > > > > We should also consider removing some of the packages listed there. > > > > [1]:http://dev.gentoo.org/~mgorny/maintainer-needed.txt > > I'm not a developer, which means I can't actively pick up any packages. If > helpful, I would be willing to go through older open bugs and see if there is > anything I can pick up. > > For net-im/skype, I did check a few things last week as I had issues > connecting: > bugs: 461668, 462504, 440512, 467252, 493068, 512576 are for version <4.3 > which can no longer connect (Versions are being blocked by Skype upstream) > I think these can be closed. Is it fine to remove all versions <4.3 from the tree then? By the way, you can proxy-maintain some of those packages if you like. See [1]. [1]:https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Project:Proxy_Maintainers -- Best regards, Michał Górny signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-dev] systemd profiles
On Sat, Aug 30, 2014 at 8:55 AM, Lars Wendler wrote: > On Sat, 30 Aug 2014 08:03:10 -0400 Rich Freeman wrote: > >>On Sat, Aug 30, 2014 at 7:41 AM, Michał Górny >>wrote: >>> Dnia 2014-08-30, o godz. 13:27:08 >>> "J. Roeleveld" napisał(a): Not sure if this idea has been discussed before, but: Wouldn't it be an idea to have a "virtual/init" which depends on 1 of: >>> >>> You mean our virtual/service-manager? >>> >> >>Michał is already well-aware of this one, but for general interest, >>the main blocker to actually doing this is: >>https://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=504116 > > Which is really a shame that there's such slow progress. I already added > several patches to the blocking bugs but none was fixed meanwhile... A possible solution is to remove it in the next version of openrc, as it is deprecated already. Another solution is to ask the Council to let somebody apply patches if the maintainer is unresponsive, set a deadline, etc. Since many of the packages are system packages letting them break isn't really an option. -- Rich
Re: [gentoo-dev] maintainer-needed@ packages need you!
On 08/30/2014 02:35 PM, J. Roeleveld wrote: > > For net-im/skype, Screw skype. We have tox [1] on the way. Try tox-overlay (not in tree, because there is no release yet, however it already works relatively well). [1] https://tox.im
Re: [gentoo-dev] systemd profiles
On Sat, 30 Aug 2014 08:03:10 -0400 Rich Freeman wrote: >On Sat, Aug 30, 2014 at 7:41 AM, Michał Górny >wrote: >> Dnia 2014-08-30, o godz. 13:27:08 >> "J. Roeleveld" napisał(a): >>> >>> Not sure if this idea has been discussed before, but: >>> Wouldn't it be an idea to have a "virtual/init" which depends on 1 >>> of: >> >> You mean our virtual/service-manager? >> > >Michał is already well-aware of this one, but for general interest, >the main blocker to actually doing this is: >https://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=504116 Which is really a shame that there's such slow progress. I already added several patches to the blocking bugs but none was fixed meanwhile... >Rich > Lars -- Lars Wendler Gentoo package maintainer GPG: 4DD8 C47C CDFA 5295 E1A6 3FC8 F696 74AB 981C A6FC signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-dev] maintainer-needed@ packages need you!
On 08/30/2014 12:46 PM, Michał Górny wrote: > Hello, > > Right now, we have 1262 packages assigned to maintainer-needed@. Only > a few of them have a large number of bugs, many have just version bump > requests. 953 packages have no bug open. > > Please consider adopting some of the packages, or at least fixing some > of the relevant bugs. For package - bug count list, take a look at [1]. > Please note that this list is not autogenerated, so it will soon be > outdated, I hope :). > > We should also consider removing some of the packages listed there. > > [1]:http://dev.gentoo.org/~mgorny/maintainer-needed.txt > We already maintain such a list (along with instructions how to get involved) here https://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/qa/treecleaners/maintainer-needed.xml -- Regards, Markos Chandras
Re: [gentoo-dev] maintainer-needed@ packages need you!
On Sat, Aug 30, 2014 at 1:46 PM, Michał Górny wrote: > Please consider adopting some of the packages, or at least fixing some > of the relevant bugs. For package - bug count list, take a look at [1]. > Please note that this list is not autogenerated, so it will soon be > outdated, I hope :). Nice list! Looks like the dev-python category is mostly in good shape. I might start looking at app-text/asciidoc sometime soon. In my opinion, www-apache/mod_python can be last-rited, but IIRC we have some users that want it to stick around. If dev-python/rtf2xml is actually Jython-based, perhaps it should be last-rited as well. Cheers, Dirkjan
Re: [gentoo-dev] maintainer-needed@ packages need you!
On Saturday, August 30, 2014 01:46:20 PM Michał Górny wrote: > Hello, > > Right now, we have 1262 packages assigned to maintainer-needed@. Only > a few of them have a large number of bugs, many have just version bump > requests. 953 packages have no bug open. > > Please consider adopting some of the packages, or at least fixing some > of the relevant bugs. For package - bug count list, take a look at [1]. > Please note that this list is not autogenerated, so it will soon be > outdated, I hope :). > > We should also consider removing some of the packages listed there. > > [1]:http://dev.gentoo.org/~mgorny/maintainer-needed.txt I'm not a developer, which means I can't actively pick up any packages. If helpful, I would be willing to go through older open bugs and see if there is anything I can pick up. For net-im/skype, I did check a few things last week as I had issues connecting: bugs: 461668, 462504, 440512, 467252, 493068, 512576 are for version <4.3 which can no longer connect (Versions are being blocked by Skype upstream) I think these can be closed. Other bugs: 485792 - xscreensaver not showing skype notifications (I don't actually want this myself, so not able to test) 519096 - issue with 32bit compilation (I use amd64 exclusively, unable to test) 518922 - hard dependency need to be added for pulseaudio (I see some ebuild- code already listed, already got pulseaudio installed seperately) 514888 - Seems to be related to an issue with old chat-logs, there are links to skype-upstream in the report. This did not occur on my systems.
Re: [gentoo-dev] maintainer-needed@ packages need you!
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA512 On 08/30/2014 01:46 PM, Michał Górny wrote: > Hello, > > Right now, we have 1262 packages assigned to maintainer-needed@. > Only a few of them have a large number of bugs, many have just > version bump requests. 953 packages have no bug open. Thanks for the reminder and the list. > > Please consider adopting some of the packages, or at least fixing > some of the relevant bugs. For package - bug count list, take a > look at [1]. Please note that this list is not autogenerated, so it > will soon be outdated, I hope :). I'm using app-crypt/ekeyd with my entropykeys so can take that one at least. > > We should also consider removing some of the packages listed > there. > > [1]:http://dev.gentoo.org/~mgorny/maintainer-needed.txt > - -- Kristian Fiskerstrand Public PGP key 0xE3EDFAE3 at hkp://pool.sks-keyservers.net fpr:94CB AFDD 3034 5109 5618 35AA 0B7F 8B60 E3ED FAE3 -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- iQIcBAEBCgAGBQJUAcH8AAoJEPw7F94F4TagzyQP+wcTi0qzXc/PjfMD+djXjMrY nVzOW0GG5KX94s/WPs3weV/jmF8abPFiENyAB8a0sarXN+aIPb/pG/In54GaAvPS 5JLF1hm2wS5eWVGkXfQidupk8Yunpa/Bek4YoHON+0eFZW8rXxmAre1M8LADXUbM gOsOkvca8Ar9oe991zRpu+pIl0TsXNb70jh3m8/saW7IUTxWPPyNr0TeS1QkbYHZ jDceufHZTgUp3qZy9U9f23kDE4w59R5t1K2qSsP8C3ugWflswOCfxnJRiDYc8F69 DWvnQnifZQncD6iXA/EACne/w9cjZFyFKagI2HwlE2h1FfxXy0sBsFwaG8pfSdtp xikmIWbpZhrAyDTNzfQ/Et/d/JfETqBTWHIZ22HUc25I5NiDhA6OCr4deZEd+aSy cfdQIgmJxDvsACs0OfI0oZ2d4IsZUgoAS3Yx4lmp+koVa9EhCSvizxc8+Qy4yF0l v5tObhZ4la5fmu7xzQWrWRTOgADRfoPs6Cur3l3jXirx5dZ4eX8yTSBazJw4sbII kYjek73o68U9phlcSxm1sY14JfCn4f0dto0C/4hX57mhmx17bLaeA2DpvO6SqNrp /YP8OnSIf2bTOe2hyRg0CTv6cVNUpSSxYZUuWmJ8ZaAFNNOO0g6lAesMJiar2Ks1 ThEjZv5DHJvkyHLQ3OjI =6ddH -END PGP SIGNATURE-
Re: [gentoo-dev] systemd profiles
On Saturday, August 30, 2014 01:41:26 PM Michał Górny wrote: > Dnia 2014-08-30, o godz. 13:27:08 > > "J. Roeleveld" napisał(a): > > On Friday, August 29, 2014 10:41:51 PM Rich Freeman wrote: > > > On Fri, Aug 29, 2014 at 7:09 PM, Jauhien Piatlicki > > > > wrote: > > > > Hi all, > > > > > > > > I have a simple question: why do we have systemd subprofiles only in > > > > gnome > > > > and kde profiles? > > > > > > > > Could we add systemd subprofiles also to default/linux/$arch/13.0/ and > > > > desktop (and any other profiles where it makes sense)? > > > > > > I'm not sure systemd profiles actually make that much sense these > > > days. To install systemd from a stage3 you basically just need to set > > > USE=systemd and do an emerge -uDN world. We're actually getting close > > > to the point where you would pick an init system the way you pick a > > > kernel or cron implementation during install. > > > > Not sure if this idea has been discussed before, but: > > > Wouldn't it be an idea to have a "virtual/init" which depends on 1 of: > You mean our virtual/service-manager? Yes, couldn't quickly find it. -- Joost
Re: [gentoo-dev] systemd profiles
On Sat, Aug 30, 2014 at 7:41 AM, Michał Górny wrote: > Dnia 2014-08-30, o godz. 13:27:08 > "J. Roeleveld" napisał(a): >> >> Not sure if this idea has been discussed before, but: >> Wouldn't it be an idea to have a "virtual/init" which depends on 1 of: > > You mean our virtual/service-manager? > Michał is already well-aware of this one, but for general interest, the main blocker to actually doing this is: https://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=504116 Rich
[gentoo-dev] maintainer-needed@ packages need you!
Hello, Right now, we have 1262 packages assigned to maintainer-needed@. Only a few of them have a large number of bugs, many have just version bump requests. 953 packages have no bug open. Please consider adopting some of the packages, or at least fixing some of the relevant bugs. For package - bug count list, take a look at [1]. Please note that this list is not autogenerated, so it will soon be outdated, I hope :). We should also consider removing some of the packages listed there. [1]:http://dev.gentoo.org/~mgorny/maintainer-needed.txt -- Best regards, Michał Górny signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-dev] systemd profiles
Dnia 2014-08-30, o godz. 13:27:08 "J. Roeleveld" napisał(a): > On Friday, August 29, 2014 10:41:51 PM Rich Freeman wrote: > > On Fri, Aug 29, 2014 at 7:09 PM, Jauhien Piatlicki > wrote: > > > Hi all, > > > > > > I have a simple question: why do we have systemd subprofiles only in gnome > > > and kde profiles? > > > > > > Could we add systemd subprofiles also to default/linux/$arch/13.0/ and > > > desktop (and any other profiles where it makes sense)? > > I'm not sure systemd profiles actually make that much sense these > > days. To install systemd from a stage3 you basically just need to set > > USE=systemd and do an emerge -uDN world. We're actually getting close > > to the point where you would pick an init system the way you pick a > > kernel or cron implementation during install. > > Not sure if this idea has been discussed before, but: > Wouldn't it be an idea to have a "virtual/init" which depends on 1 of: You mean our virtual/service-manager? -- Best regards, Michał Górny signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-dev] systemd profiles
On Friday, August 29, 2014 10:41:51 PM Rich Freeman wrote: > On Fri, Aug 29, 2014 at 7:09 PM, Jauhien Piatlicki wrote: > > Hi all, > > > > I have a simple question: why do we have systemd subprofiles only in gnome > > and kde profiles? > > > > Could we add systemd subprofiles also to default/linux/$arch/13.0/ and > > desktop (and any other profiles where it makes sense)? > I'm not sure systemd profiles actually make that much sense these > days. To install systemd from a stage3 you basically just need to set > USE=systemd and do an emerge -uDN world. We're actually getting close > to the point where you would pick an init system the way you pick a > kernel or cron implementation during install. Not sure if this idea has been discussed before, but: Wouldn't it be an idea to have a "virtual/init" which depends on 1 of: - OpenRC - Systemd - . (whichever other one) Put "virtual/init" in the @system-set. Don't put either OpenRC or Systemd in the stage3-file. (Or have 2 stage3 files, one with OpenRC and one with Systemd) Then, during the install, the user has to choose one of these and install it. The virtual could even use the "systemd" USE-flag to decide which one to use. -- Joost
Re: [gentoo-dev] systemd profiles
Hi, 30.08.14 04:41, Rich Freeman написав(ла): > On Fri, Aug 29, 2014 at 7:09 PM, Jauhien Piatlicki wrote: >> Hi all, >> >> I have a simple question: why do we have systemd subprofiles only in gnome >> and kde profiles? >> >> Could we add systemd subprofiles also to default/linux/$arch/13.0/ and >> desktop (and any other profiles where it makes sense)? > > I'm not sure systemd profiles actually make that much sense these > days. To install systemd from a stage3 you basically just need to set > USE=systemd and do an emerge -uDN world. We're actually getting close > to the point where you would pick an init system the way you pick a > kernel or cron implementation during install. > > -- > Rich > that's good. Then I have another question: why systemd profile exists at all? As I see as consistent two possibilities: 1. no systemd profiles at all 2. systemd subprofile profile of default exists together with other profiles --- Jauhien signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
